Why I belive best friends shouldn't date.

[WTRanger]

I think your pretty dead on about someone who avoids the "talk". Makes a lot of sense now when you put it the way you've worded it all together. I think your onto something very interesting... I'll have to do an update down the road...

 

The reason it makes sense the way I've worded it is because I'm going through the exact same situation. I took my experiences and put them into words. I'll have to do an update as well, but at this point I'm starting to possibly realize that this person may never come around in the near future. Granted, my wording could all be a load of BS but that's the way I see it based on my experiences with "the talk."

 

I think we might have to start a sub-thread on the topic of the talk and what people's actions and thoughts are on that subject.

[somedude81]

I think you're beating yourself up for no reason. She knew how you felt about her and yet she went out with you on "so called dates" every week. She knew you were falling for her but she liked the attention and ego feed you gave her. If she really is your friend she would not just cut you off and avoid you. She would be concerned about your feelings and give you some time to let the pain ebb ( after telling you she did not like you that way ).

I did ask her if she knew I liked her and she said she had no clue, that she was dense about stuff like that. I don't believe she was lying. What would she even have to gain by lying about that? If she knew I liked her, why did she go a party at my house where the only person she knew was me. She had complete trust in me. If she knew I liked her, wouldn't she suspect that I would try something with her?

 

She cut me off because of the things I said to her. Because I told her that I don't just want to be her friend anymore. I know I hurt her. I'm sure it's very possible for us to become friends again. But I don't want her as just a friend.

Don't take all the blame. She really is not your friend. She used you and now that the truth is out she wants to manipulate you into making you feel guilt.

Don't fall for it. When you see her hold your head high and let her know you don't need or want her. Say "hi" and continue on with your life and find a more deserving women to care for ( and make sure you let her know you want to date for a romantic relationship and not just friends ).

I'm sure we both used each other. She got what she want from me and I got to spend a lot of time with a girl. I just wanted more from her than she wanted from me. In the end, I think it was fine that we both used each other.

 

The next girl I do meet I will be sure to tel her I'm not looking for just friends.

[vanilla87]

The reason it makes sense the way I've worded it is because I'm going through the exact same situation. I took my experiences and put them into words. I'll have to do an update as well, but at this point I'm starting to possibly realize that this person may never come around in the near future. Granted, my wording could all be a load of BS but that's the way I see it based on my experiences with "the talk."

 

I think you were on to something, really. I've had the talk before, more so he had the talk and I sort of avoided the conversation, but then again, I found it to be a vulnerable thing for him to pull on me, especially right after we literally just slept together. Kind of made it hard to keep myself from letting it get way too personal, so I pretended like it was nothing, which sucks, cause he always can pick up on how I'm feeling...

 

I think we might have to start a sub-thread on the topic of the talk and what people's actions and thoughts are on that subject.

 

I think we might have to and I bet there are plenty of people on LS that have the same situation going on or experienced it at some point in time...

[somedude81]

I spent at least 30 minutes on my post to vanilla87 and WTRanger and they both ignored it

 

At least getting my thoughts out there is a form of self-therapy. I'm seeing a counselor tomorrow and that would hopefully be helpful.

[vanilla87]

I spent at least 30 minutes on my post to vanilla87 and WTRanger and they both ignored it

 

At least getting my thoughts out there is a form of self-therapy. I'm seeing a counselor tomorrow and that would hopefully be helpful.

 

Okay see now trying to sucker either one of us in to answer like that, is well, pathetic on some level for starters.

 

Okay I read it and basically you have some serious hang ups about sex and women in general. I think you need to date a few more let alone be in normal healthy relationships before you even try and be with this girl...

[WTRanger]

Relax buddy. I didn't want to hi-jack this thread anymore than I have. If you still need advice, start a new thread and I'll be happy to post what I think.

 

For now, just stop putting so much pressure on yourself about having sex. You seem to have this mental schedule and if the girl isn't down to her panties within 5 seconds of meeting you, you see that as a failure. Take a deep breath and just let things work out.

[vanilla87]

Relax buddy. I didn't want to hi-jack this thread anymore than I have. If you still need advice, start a new thread and I'll be happy to post what I think.

 

For now, just stop putting so much pressure on yourself about having sex. You seem to have this mental schedule and if the girl isn't down to her panties within 5 seconds of meeting you, you see that as a failure. Take a deep breath and just let things work out.

 

lol, well put. You can't let sex be the big picture in what you need from a woman. Seriously if that was all you needed, go to a strip club and let a few dance up on you till you find a girl to date.

[Yamaha]

Don't be so naive. Women hate a guy telling them this if they have no feelings in return. They lose out on what they want but if you want to take the blame and believe every word she tells you then go right ahead. You have alot to learn about relationships and women.

[somedude81]

Okay see now trying to sucker either one of us in to answer like that, is well, pathetic on some level for starters.

 

Okay I read it and basically you have some serious hang ups about sex and women in general. I think you need to date a few more let alone be in normal healthy relationships before you even try and be with this girl...

LOL I know, I was bored at the time

 

Honestly though this thread has been helpful.

 

There are so many things I need to learn about women, relationships and life in general. I feel like I'm trying to play catch-up.

[vanilla87]

LOL I know, I was bored at the time

 

Honestly though this thread has been helpful.

 

There are so many things I need to learn about women, relationships and life in general. I feel like I'm trying to play catch-up.

 

Question, how old are you anyway? Sorry to ask, but from the info you left you seem really young in experience for some reason, I mean REALLY young, lol, no offense...

[somedude81]

None taken, I'm 27.

 

I do agree that I seem really young. One reason besides my physical appearance that I can pass myself off as somebody 5 years younger is because of how I act and my maturity level. The things that I'm going through now are stuff that most people go through when they are teenagers. Honestly I don't feel like I'm 27. It's like I somehow stopped aging at 22 or something.

 

That's one reason why I'm more drawn to girls that are much younger than I am. We are on the same wave-length. It's kind of sad but I have more things in common with girls in their late teens and early 20's than I have with girls my age.

 

I believe that I need to date a lot of girls and start getting some real experience. This girl was kind of a step in the right even if I did make several mistakes with her. As long as I learn from them and don't repeat them, I will be worth it in the end.

[vanilla87]

None taken, I'm 27.

 

I do agree that I seem really young. One reason besides my physical appearance that I can pass myself off as somebody 5 years younger is because of how I act and my maturity level. The things that I'm going through now are stuff that most people go through when they are teenagers. Honestly I don't feel like I'm 27. It's like I somehow stopped aging at 22 or something.

 

That's one reason why I'm more drawn to girls that are much younger than I am. We are on the same wave-length. It's kind of sad but I have more things in common with girls in their late teens and early 20's than I have with girls my age.

 

I believe that I need to date a lot of girls and start getting some real experience. This girl was kind of a step in the right even if I did make several mistakes with her. As long as I learn from them and don't repeat them, I will be worth it in the end.

 

ironically I usually date guys that are older then me by their maturity level, yet are my age, such an opposite compared to you, haha, then again, I usually find myself knowing guys who have been through a lot with women and are fed up with the bull from 'em or just had a lot of huge life lessons that really shaped 'em up to grow up fast before they hit 20.

 

I've dated someone your age once a few years back, who had the same mentality just like you. I'm 21, 22 in a few weeks. I get that whole relating to someone on the same level and mind set, cause it is hard when you look younger then you feel on the inside. I always felt older on the inside then I look. I still get looks when people realized I'm 21, cause they all think I look 15 or even 16 for that matter. I look on the bright side of it, I'll grace very nicely and look hot when I'm 40, always a plus in my book

 

Anyway, I think being your only 27, you still got time to get out there and have fun. When your 40, thats a different story and a whole different ball game of women too.

 

I have a question. Have you ever had a real relationship with a woman that lasted more then 6 months to a year? thats always a helpful thing, because if you allowed this girl you've been mentioning to be your first real girlfriend, my hunch is it had a 50/50 chance of working out...

[janey815]

i didn't get to read everyones comments yet but my thought on it...

 

if you're willing to mess up a great friendship go ahead.

if you're not willing to mess up a friendship and you really do want to stay best friends, you shouldnt date!!

 

ive heard of way too many messed up friendships because the dating between the best friends never lasts!!

[somedude81]

ironically I usually date guys that are older then me by their maturity level, yet are my age, such an opposite compared to you, haha, then again, I usually find myself knowing guys who have been through a lot with women and are fed up with the bull from 'em or just had a lot of huge life lessons that really shaped 'em up to grow up fast before they hit 20.

Heh that's kind of backwards. I keep hearing how women are more mentally mature than guys the same age as them. Yeah as some people go though different experiences the mature faster.

I've dated someone your age once a few years back, who had the same mentality just like you. I'm 21, 22 in a few weeks. I get that whole relating to someone on the same level and mind set, cause it is hard when you look younger then you feel on the inside. I always felt older on the inside then I look. I still get looks when people realized I'm 21, cause they all think I look 15 or even 16 for that matter. I look on the bright side of it, I'll grace very nicely and look hot when I'm 40, always a plus in my book

It does make sense that it will hard when you look younger than you feel. I assume people are always second guessing you. I guess that I'm lucky in a way because nobody questions how old I am. I agree it's going to be a major benefit when we're older. My Dad just turned 50 and he looks like he's 40.

Anyway, I think being your only 27, you still got time to get out there and have fun. When your 40, thats a different story and a whole different ball game of women too.

My Dad keeps saying that I'm still young and I have a lot of time left. That fact that I'm going to a university makes it easier also. Being around all these kids keeps me feeling you.

I have a question. Have you ever had a real relationship with a woman that lasted more then 6 months to a year? thats always a helpful thing,

I actually gave my relationship history in my really long post.

 

But to answer your question. No. The closest I've ever been to a relationship was making out with a girl 3-4 days a week for two weeks. Then she wanted to talk on the phone forever at night. I guess you can call that dating. I haven't been on any dates since then.

 

After that I started having these friendships with girls that lasted several months where I would go on non-dates. They never liked me and I never kissed any of them. Heh I was actually so scared to touch them that never even gave them a hug

 

Everything changed with this most recent girl, by the time I met her I wasn't afraid of touching girls anymore and I got very comfortable with her. I guess I can say spending all this time with her let me grow.

if you allowed this girl you've been mentioning to be your first real girlfriend, my hunch is it had a 50/50 chance of working out...

LOL allowed her to be my first girlfriend? Don't you mean if she allowed me to be her boyfriend? Either way, when we were hanging out she told me on a several occasions that she doesn't want to be in a relationship. When she broke up with her GF it really messed her up in school so she didn't want to go though that pain again. Knowing this plus my fear of rejection I never let her know that I wanted to be in a relationship with her. I still have no clue how the other dude managed to sleep with her. While I was making mistakes he managed to do stuff right and he got her.

 

Honestly though I don't know what I need from women at this point. Should I date several girls? Should I try to have sex with lots of women? Should I try and get a relationship? I don't know what's best for me.

[vanilla87]

But to answer your question. No. The closest I've ever been to a relationship was making out with a girl 3-4 days a week for two weeks. Then she wanted to talk on the phone forever at night. I guess you can call that dating. I haven't been on any dates since then.

 

Thats just hooking up with someone. To be really dating someone you need to have actually gone out on a date where it involved knowing you were spending money, even if it was on something simple as coffee and you paid for her drink, then that would qualify as you dating someone.

 

After that I started having these friendships with girls that lasted several months where I would go on non-dates. They never liked me and I never kissed any of them. Heh I was actually so scared to touch them that never even gave them a hug

 

Okay see either yo have dates or you don't, especially when it comes to a friend. Basically you were just hanging out with these girls and nothing more. No kissing means you were no where near dating any of these girls. I mean if you haven't even hugged them, that even qualifies as an aqaintances more so then a friend, cause friends hug each usually. Also if a girl doesn't like you she won't kiss you, hence why no kissing took place. And why would you be scared to a hug a girl anyway?

 

Everything changed with this most recent girl, by the time I met her I wasn't afraid of touching girls anymore and I got very comfortable with her. I guess I can say spending all this time with her let me grow.

 

I think you need to spend more time with a bunch of other girls before you even date again, I mean get comfy enough to hug one, cause if one goes in for a hug and you don't, she will get offended by that. So practice makes perfect.

 

LOL allowed her to be my first girlfriend? Don't you mean if she allowed me to be her boyfriend? Either way, when we were hanging out she told me on a several occasions that she doesn't want to be in a relationship. When she broke up with her GF it really messed her up in school so she didn't want to go though that pain again. Knowing this plus my fear of rejection I never let her know that I wanted to be in a relationship with her. I still have no clue how the other dude managed to sleep with her. While I was making mistakes he managed to do stuff right and he got her.

 

Yeah if you allow her, I mean look at the situation now, its more of in your hands in a way since you laid all the cards on the table and could go off now and be with anyone else while she has to think this over and wonder and if you start being with someone else will probably get to her at some point and make her think a whole lot more. We women think, a lot more then you believe.

 

Honestly though I don't know what I need from women at this point. Should I date several girls? Should I try to have sex with lots of women? Should I try and get a relationship? I don't know what's best for me.

 

I think you need to befriend a few, date a few, maybe hook up with one or two and maybe try to have a real relationship so you know if your dating someone and what not and also know how to handle a situation better with a woman. Also seems to me your friend is looking for someone more mature and more relationship experience before she dates you if she ever liked you. My bet is she probably had a small crush on you at first, but being you didn't make a move, she let the feelings die down and moved on to someone that was going in for the kill so to speak.

[somedude81]

Thank you for continuing to reply vanilla, you've been very insightful. If you weren't on the far end of the country I'd buy you a beer

 

Thats just hooking up with someone. To be really dating someone you need to have actually gone out on a date where it involved knowing you were spending money, even if it was on something simple as coffee and you paid for her drink, then that would qualify as you dating someone.

Ah ha! So that's what hooking up is. All these years I've been looking back and wondering what the heck to call it. And now I see that my friend just hooked up with that guy. Everything is becoming clear.

Okay see either yo have dates or you don't, especially when it comes to a friend. Basically you were just hanging out with these girls and nothing more. No kissing means you were no where near dating any of these girls. I mean if you haven't even hugged them, that even qualifies as an aqaintances more so then a friend, cause friends hug each usually. Also if a girl doesn't like you she won't kiss you, hence why no kissing took place. And why would you be scared to a hug a girl anyway?

Yup it was just hanging out. I do believe that we were friends though. To me an acquaintance is somebody you never spend any alone time with you also don't really have any communication with them outside of the area you know them from.

 

As to why I was scared to hug a girl. I actually didn't start spending any time with girls till I was in my early 20's. The vast majority of my life I only had guy friends, and I never hugged my guy friends. It took me a while to understand what girls expect from their friends. Also I've been taking couples dance classes for a while now so I'm now completely fine touching girls.

I think you need to spend more time with a bunch of other girls before you even date again, I mean get comfy enough to hug one, cause if one goes in for a hug and you don't, she will get offended by that. So practice makes perfect

.

I know I need to spend much more time with girls. But I need to make sure I don't focus on one too much or this whole stupid thing may happen again.

 

Oh and I always now go for the hug when I see that she wants to have one. I swear though that the girls I hung out in the past never tried to initiate a hug. The probably sensed that touching them would make me uncomfortable so they didn't try. Or maybe they weren't my friends.

 

Yeah if you allow her, I mean look at the situation now, its more of in your hands in a way since you laid all the cards on the table and could go off now and be with anyone else while she has to think this over and wonder and if you start being with someone else will probably get to her at some point and make her think a whole lot more. We women think, a lot more then you believe.

Yeah I laid out all my cards. But I don't know who has the upper hand. If I never talk to her again would that bother her? For some reason I doubt she even thought of me after our fight. I honestly don't have a clue how girls think.

 

Next time I run into her I'm just going to be nice and flirty and see how she reacts. Maybe she hates me, maybe she doesn't.

 

I think you need to befriend a few, date a few, maybe hook up with one or two and maybe try to have a real relationship so you know if your dating someone and what not and also know how to handle a situation better with a woman.

So the answer is, all of the above I have no problem with that. It's all about having fun and getting experience.

Also seems to me your friend is looking for someone more mature and more relationship experience before she dates you if she ever liked you. My bet is she probably had a small crush on you at first, but being you didn't make a move, she let the feelings die down and moved on to someone that was going in for the kill so to speak.

LOL if an 18 year old girl is looking for somebody more mature who also has more relationship experience then I do, what kind of girls should I go after? I can't exactly go to the local High School and try to pick up Freashmen

 

I do think she had small crush on me in the beginning. She gave me a nickname at work and I could tell she liked to spend time with me. She'd also call and text me randomly, some times late at night. And I let the fire die. Oh well, live and learn.

[vanilla87]

LOL if an 18 year old girl is looking for somebody more mature who also has more relationship experience then I do, what kind of girls should I go after? I can't exactly go to the local High School and try to pick up Freashmen

 

Whoa! not to judge, but um, 18!?!?! dang! No wonder, , wow, now it makes complete sense more then ever why this all happened in the first place, wow.

 

She is 18. Probably is college for the first time. Never had much experience because people judge you in highschool and don't want to be gossip about. So she goes and experiments as much as she can now and doesn't want to be tied down to anyone right now. Man, you should have mentioned first thing how old she really was, would have made a world of difference, you have no idea.

 

I do think she had small crush on me in the beginning. She gave me a nickname at work and I could tell she liked to spend time with me. She'd also call and text me randomly, some times late at night. And I let the fire die. Oh well, live and learn.

 

Yeah she had a crush on you and you didn't move in on the signals she was throwing your way. No girl texts a guy late at night unless she likes him or gives him a nick name that is an inside joke between the two of you. Also you need to give more info on what else she also use to do to further understand what was going on with her.

 

 

 

All I can say is you are very clueless about a lot of things when it comes to women, no lie about that...

[somedude81]

Whoa! not to judge, but um, 18!?!?! dang! No wonder, , wow, now it makes complete sense more then ever why this all happened in the first place, wow.

 

She is 18. Probably is college for the first time. Never had much experience because people judge you in highschool and don't want to be gossip about. So she goes and experiments as much as she can now and doesn't want to be tied down to anyone right now. Man, you should have mentioned first thing how old she really was, would have made a world of difference, you have no idea.

 

LOL no matter how old I get the 18 year old girls never change I swear I'm not trying to target them but for some reason every girl I get involved with is 18-19. Some are more experienced then others. And most are more mature than I Either way she doesn't know how old I really am. If I ever get close to her she will eventually find out but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

 

Sorry for not mentioning how old she is. I've talked about her in several threads so I don't know which ones I give which details in. So here is everything.

 

I'm 27. Half white, half Cuban. I look and act white. She's 18, Caribbean black her family is from Barbados. She looks black but doesn't act like it. I could send you a picture of us together if you think it would help clear some things up.

 

How does her being 18 make a difference? I know that she doesn't or didn't have a lot of experience. I just wished she would experiment with me.

Yeah she had a crush on you and you didn't move in on the signals she was throwing your way. No girl texts a guy late at night unless she likes him or gives him a nick name that is an inside joke between the two of you. Also you need to give more info on what else she also use to do to further understand what was going on with her.

 

All I can say is you are very clueless about a lot of things when it comes to women, no lie about that...

Yeah I'm starting to think that she did like me. And not only did I not make a move I think I may have said some things to her that may have let her think that that I wasn't interested in her.

 

I just got back from seeing the counselor who's a woman who seems to be in her early 30's. She asked what my conversations with Chelz were like and I told her that I occasionally talked to Chelz about another girl that I liked. The counselor said that talking about other girls may have given Chelz the impression that I didn't like her. I think that makes some sense. So I was probably inadvertently giving "I see you as just a friend" vibes to Chelz, possibly killing any interest she had in me LOL yes I'm clueless

 

Now that I'm like 75% sure that she used to like me. What the heck do I do next? I'm sure we can still be friends and hang out again. But if there is no possibility of a future with her, I'm not going to waste my time. I just don't want to give up yet. I've put in to much energy to leave things as they are.