How do you know when you need to go from "unhappily married" to separating?

[Decisiontomake]

I'm not sure if you told your husband these requests and if you used these exact words or not. Assuming you did, then to be fair to your husband, I think you really really need to define exactly what each of those things mean.

 

For instance, "Being a partner in the marriage". No offense, but what the heck does that mean? It's very flowery with no specifics. Men and women talk and think very differently. He might think that means coming home from work on time without drinking with the boys, and you might think it means romance and flowers. He's trying to meet your needs from his interpretation of what that means, and yet you're needs are not being met.

 

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to give such thought to my situation, and put together such a detailed response. With regard to the points in your first two paragraphs, I have been very specific with my husband, I just didn't post specifically in response to the post I was answering with those points.

 

You need to give specific actions your husband and you need to do. Ie, do you want more romance and private time with him? Then I would tell him that "We need to plan more romance. One day out of the week, I will plan a night out. The next week you will plan a night out". Men tend to need a very clear plan of action. Dont be afraid to connect the dots really clearly. And then, when he does plan a night out, it's your responsibility to appreciate his effort and to draw happiness from it.

 

Very often we women want something to happen, and then when we receive it, we dont draw as much happiness as we wanted to. Women are notorious for wanting something, without wanting to ask for it, and so we never do and then the men are sitting here clueless as to our wants. And then when we get so frustrated and finally ask for something, and if they give it to us, we're not happy because we had to ask for it.

 

Agreed on these points in terms of what we intimate we want to be happy, and then the level of happiness those wants then give us sometimes being out of sync.

 

It does sound like your husband is very passive in the marriage. You need to get him actively involved. For instance, with regards to the book he's been putting on hold to read. I would talk to your husband, tell him you understand he's busy and when he gets home from work, he wants to relax, BUT can he agree to a reasonable date, a month or two from now, ask him for a date, that he will finish the book? Once he agrees, do not say a single thing about the book until that date? Once the date has come, ask him if he's read the book? If he hasnt (and he probably wont the first or second time), I would remind him that you've kept your mouth shut the whole time (havent "nagged" him) and that it's not fair and that you are hurt that he didnt read the book. I would again tell him that you understand that he's busy, but will he give another reasonable date he'll agree to read the book? Again, give him the time, without saying another thing. It might take one or two more times, but I think you will see a change in his personality. It worked for my exh and I during our separation.

 

Uncannily, I did exactly as you described. We obviously have similar thought processes. I asked him to read just 10 pages a day, as that would have meant the book would have been finished in a certain period of time. I then kept my mouth firmly shut! He has actually now finished the book, but as you said, it did take a couple of nudges after trying that technique.

 

BTW, my husband doesn't work - this is one of the problems of our unbalanced relationship.

 

Women need to learn how to ask for very specific things, and we need to learn to be patient and give men the time to do it. If one partner is sitting their nagging the other, you are going to create a parent-child relationship where one is always rebelling.

 

I'm not sure if you've done all this, it's hard to know your story from the little you've said. Hopefully this is food for thought.

 

As a general update, we had an evening to ourselves last night as both kids were out and amazingly (after a rather strange argument that came out of nowhere in the middle of the day) my husband bought up "where do we go from here" as we sat eating our chinese takeout! We had a long chat, again about the things I am unhappy with, and what I feel I need from him for him to be an equal within the marriage - he broke down as I've never seen him do before. It was a horrible couple of hours, me crying, him crying, and not just about the situation we find ourselves in but how he feels inadequate that he can't find work at the moment, that he feels he's failing me as a husband and multiple other feelings that he has obviously kept completely to himself up until now. I have never seen him cry in that way, and as much as it was horrible, it almost feels as though it was a break-thru somehow.

I am really cynical that he has the capability of changing or "stepping up" but his reactions yesterday were at least reactions whereas his passiveness previously has always made me feel like he was not engaged in the discussions.

[Decisiontomake]

These are good questions and if I answered them I would say:

 

1. What is your biggest fear if you stay married? That nothing will change for the better and that I'll be ten years down the line and in the same situation I am now. I'm not sure my OH will ever be the man I am looking for him to be and I feel that our incompatibility is just going to grow rather than heal itself.

 

2. What is your biggest fear if you filed for separation/divorce today? That I would be making a big mistake, throwing away a basically decent and loving guy, uprooting my children and being the one causing all the grief (as hubby definitely doesn't want us to end our marriage or separate)

[Gunny376]

What it sounds like to me is that your needing and wanting DH to man-up and take on more of the masculine/male role in the sense of an active participant rather than just showing up for the party.

 

This recession is causing a lot of relationships to falter, with men having to take on the traditional roles of women, and women having to take on the traditional roles of men.

 

In a lot of ways, we're still applying the standards of the 1950's here in 2008? When things have changed over the last 70 years. A double-standard has emerged, in which women have "equality" and equal rights, and often earn more than men in their jobs, yet still expect to yield and benefit from the 'traditional of being a woman in a relationship with a man.

 

Hollyweird, the media, television and such would have us believe that women want a man who is 'sensitive', 'caring', and 'in-touch with their feminine-side, while nothing more can be further from the truth.

 

One cannot expect to un-do millions of years and hundreds of thousands of years of both biological, pyschological, cultural and societal evolution.

 

Your best chance at a happy marriage, lies generally with the person you married and had children with. The chances of divorce go up 10% with each successive marriage.

 

Communication and inter-personal relationship skills are learned, not something we're born with, and certainly not taught.

 

Men are not women, and women are not men ~ nor can you expect one to become the other.

 

Men are like the Pillsbury Dough-Boy. First you've got to get rid of all the crap that society, culture and their mothers have taught them about women, how to make women happy, and content (Yea! Right!).

 

Then you've got to kneed them, mold them, and fold them, and teach them about what a woman wants and needs are? And then you've got to kneed and mold them some more about what YOU as an individual want and need. You've got to teach them how to satisfy you and your wants and needs. (That's a two-way swinging door BTW! )

 

Most divorces come about because of a lack of communication ~ most interpersonal communication is 90% body language, and is communicated on a sub-conscious level,

 

Women are more in-tune with this level ~ most men don't have a clue out the gate!

 

That is to say most women are more intuitive than men. Its because of how our brains are wired. Bottom line? Women pay more attention to the smallest of details, men don't!

 

Most marriages fail because of ~ "We grew apart!" Mainly because men lack the 'intuitiveness" of women, and fail to pay attention to the 'little' details of day-to-day' life!

 

Little things mean a lot!

 

Women use in-direct language, and men use direct language! Your marriage is failing because although in your mind, your stating and explaining in obvious language (to you) to your DH your implying and he's inferring.

 

I would suggest you read a couple of books before spending thousands of dollars on a divorce. The first is GenderSpeak" and the second is "You Just Don't Understand!" I would also recommend, "Why Men Don't Have A Clue, and Women Need Another Pair of Shoes!" and "Why Men Don't Get Enough Sex, and Women Don't Get Enough Love!"

[sugarmomma]

Leaving him now would be like kicking him while he's down. Reading your post it sounds to me like your husband is just having a rough time. Its not like he's cheating or abusing you. I don't think you have grounds to leave him and besides how is he suppose to support himself if he isn't working.

 

How long has he been out of work? Is he out of work because he's lazy or due to the horrible economy?

 

He doesn't sound like a bad guy, just having a rough time due to the circumstances.

 

I would just focus on other areas of my life that need improving and let him have his process.

 

You may need to have some sort of deadline because I agree that this should not go on forever. But you have to decide what that will be.

[dgiirl]

As a general update, we had an evening to ourselves last night as both kids were out and amazingly (after a rather strange argument that came out of nowhere in the middle of the day) my husband bought up "where do we go from here" as we sat eating our chinese takeout! We had a long chat, again about the things I am unhappy with, and what I feel I need from him for him to be an equal within the marriage - he broke down as I've never seen him do before. It was a horrible couple of hours, me crying, him crying, and not just about the situation we find ourselves in but how he feels inadequate that he can't find work at the moment, that he feels he's failing me as a husband and multiple other feelings that he has obviously kept completely to himself up until now. I have never seen him cry in that way, and as much as it was horrible, it almost feels as though it was a break-thru somehow.

 

I am really cynical that he has the capability of changing or "stepping up" but his reactions yesterday were at least reactions whereas his passiveness previously has always made me feel like he was not engaged in the discussions.

 

This is at least a positive sign. I agree with Sugarmomma in that your husband does not sound like a bad guy, just someone going through a rough patch.

 

Men like to solve problems. They feel useful when they are able to be in charge and fix things. They are not one to typically rant about their feelings. When women go to their husbands just to vent about their bad days, men tend to tell us what to do or tune us out. Not necessarily because they dont care, but because if they dont know how to fix the situation, they feel useless. And when they feel useless, they dont know what to do and clam up. A lot of men do not understand that sometimes women just need to feel heard, we just need empathy, not necessarily someone to solve all our problems.

 

It sounds like the first thing you need from your husband is to feel he's truly listening to you, truly empathizing with, not necessarily agreeing with you, but at least giving you the acknowledgment and right to your own feelings. You could start with telling him exactly that. You could tell him that when you talk to him, that he doesnt necessarily need to agree with you, but you do need him to acknowledge what you say and give you the right to your own feelings.

 

I would often have difficulties with my exh over this problem. I would go to him to vent to him about the frustrations of my day, and the first thing he would do is play devil's advocate. He would ALWAYS point to the errors of my ways. It made me feel absolutely horrible about myself. From my point of view, all i needed was for someone to empathize with me, to at least appreciate my frustrations, for someone to simply say "I understand and I hear you". From his point of view, he just wanted to fix the problems. He didnt think he had to say "I hear you" because he assumed it was already understood. The biggest lessons I learned was 1) not to vent to him SO much about my problems, it wasnt fair to him to dump out all that negative garbage, and 2) to give myself the right and acknowledgment of my own feelings. I was so needy of his approval and understanding that when I didnt get it, my self-esteem was compromised. I needed to learn to give myself the right to my own feelings, even if no one in the world agreed with them. Even if I might have been wrong. Even if i might have overreacted to the situation. I, at least, gave my feelings validation. Once I did that, THEN I am capable of looking at any situation more objective and find a solution to my problems.

 

Him being unemployed at the moment is a very important issue I think you left out of your original message. In order to give you more objective advice, we need to know the circumstances around that. Is it by choice? Is he being lazy and passive in trying to find a job? Or is he truly working at finding another one but nothing's coming up?

 

You also mentioned he had an affair 8 years ago? Do you know and understand why it happened? Do you understand why he did it? Does it make sense? Was there something wrong with your relationship at the time? Were you guys more distant, drifting apart? If you understand all the circumstances that opened the door for an affair, have you guys found a solution to that? Do you feel he truly understands how much hurt he did to you? Do you truly feel his remorse? Do you truly believe he'll never do it again?

[Decisiontomake]

This board is proving very good therapy! Thank you all for your advice and input - it is really helping. It's difficult to paint you a full picture of an 18 year relationship so feel free to keep asking the questions so that I can give you direct responses. This will help you give me rounded input, and will hopefully help me save my marriage.

 

What it sounds like to me is that your needing and wanting DH to man-up and take on more of the masculine/male role in the sense of an active participant rather than just showing up for the party.

 

Gosh, that sounds so 1940's doesn't it but I actually think you're right! I am such a strong woman, but have often said that I'm not sure the generation before me got it right in striving to have it all, with all the bloody stress that seems to cause! I kind of feel like I'd like to be protected a little bit at the moment, and yes that is harping back to the man being the protector, and the woman being the more submissive. I feel we've been out of balance in the other direction for so long, that it's my turn so to speak.

 

This recession is causing a lot of relationships to falter, with men having to take on the traditional roles of women, and women having to take on the traditional roles of men.

 

Well in answer to this, and the following posts regarding my hubby's work situation, he gave up work when we were still in the UK in 2004 when I started my own company. It made perfect sense at the time, and worked really well as we had bought a really run down house so he spent his days doing that up and then collecting our then elementary school aged children at the end of the day. Not a bad set up. We then moved to the States (again with my own business) and so it again made sense that he settle the kids and not look for employment out of the home at that time. I should caveat that with the fact that he didn't really manage the home at that point, merely ensured it ticked over. I've always managed our finances and been the pro-active organizer - he has always been the passenger, but just not so much as he is at this stage. So the work situation has been going on for some time.

 

In a lot of ways, we're still applying the standards of the 1950's here in 2008? When things have changed over the last 70 years. A double-standard has emerged, in which women have "equality" and equal rights, and often earn more than men in their jobs, yet still expect to yield and benefit from the 'traditional of being a woman in a relationship with a man.

 

I actually feel like I get the **** of both genders in the marriage: I go out and earn the money, and I also deal with the bulk of parenting issues (homework, parents meetings etc), where my OH has become more and more insular and almost unsure of his abilities to deal with "stuff".

 

Your best chance at a happy marriage, lies generally with the person you married and had children with. The chances of divorce go up 10% with each successive marriage.

Couldn't agree with you more on this bit - I have said to him "why let our next partners benefit from the lessons we've learnt in this marriage. we should learn them, act on them and give each other the benefit".

 

Communication and inter-personal relationship skills are learned, not something we're born with, and certainly not taught.

 

Most marriages fail because of ~ "We grew apart!" Mainly because men lack the 'intuitiveness" of women, and fail to pay attention to the 'little' details of day-to-day' life!

 

The "growing apart" really scares me - if you can see it happening, communicate about it, but one party still doesn't act on it, what the hell are you supposed to do??

 

Women use in-direct language, and men use direct language! Your marriage is failing because although in your mind, your stating and explaining in obvious language (to you) to your DH your implying and he's inferring.

 

I agree in general terms with regard to the different communication styles of men and women, however, my OH will readily admit that I am being clear with him but that something "stops" him from taking the action that's needed. This has been a trait throughout our marriage in that he takes the approach that I'll point out something that needs fixing and he'll take it on board, then he'll hope it will pass, and then he'll just fly below the radar until I forget all about it!

[Decisiontomake]

Leaving him now would be like kicking him while he's down. Reading your post it sounds to me like your husband is just having a rough time. Its not like he's cheating or abusing you. I don't think you have grounds to leave him and besides how is he suppose to support himself if he isn't working.

Forgive me but "cheating and abusing" are not the only reasons why a spouse should leave their marriage. How would you define abusing? Isn't it abuse that I carry the weight of our marriage and life on my shoulders continually? Isn't it abuse that my needs are never met, whilst his are? Isn't it abuse to my children for them to see their father doing nothing with his life? I would never simply throw him out and not support him financially - don't get me wrong, we're not rich, but I'm not mean either. If we were to separate, I would pay the lease on the apartment for a three month period, as well as providing him with living expenses. However, the idea in a separation (which I am not saying is going to happen, but have merely been exploring what good that option would do), would be that he learn to stand on his own to feet, to see the pressure the last few years of me doing so have put on my shoulders, and for him to understand how important a partnership approach is to our marriage.

 

How long has he been out of work? Is he out of work because he's lazy or due to the horrible economy?

I posted some of this in the above reply. The economy is certainly not going to help him at the moment, but indicative of his personality is that he is stopping whenver a hurdle is presented. My argument is that if I came home from work and said "that's it, I don't want to work anymore" what would he do to support our family? I don't have the choice to not find money to support us, so why does he get it? I have constantly suggested finding another career path, retraining, whatever it takes to give him something that he can feel passionate about, or at least make some money out of, for the rest of his working life but as with his passive approach to most things, he doesn't have the "no stone unturned" mentality.

 

He doesn't sound like a bad guy, just having a rough time due to the circumstances. He isn't a bad guy at all - he's a really loving guy - and you're right he is having a rough time - moreso than I thought until he broke down yesterday BUT this has been a constant theme throughout our marriage and has reached fever pitch over the last 18 months.

 

I would just focus on other areas of my life that need improving and let him have his process.

Because of his passivity, if I simple let him continue, we will be in this situation 2, 3, 4, 5 etc years from now and I will continue to be less and less happy which I don't think is fair. He IS good guy, but I'm also a good gal and feel like I deserve my life to be happy too.

 

You may need to have some sort of deadline because I agree that this should not go on forever. But you have to decide what that will be. Well, after our chat yesterday, he is going to speak to one of our closest friends back home (his best man at our wedding) as I think he needs a guy to chat to and kind of make an action plan with. I'm hopeful he'll do that over the next couple of days and that will be tangible proof that he's heard me this time, and we can then take timescales from there

[2sunny]

can i ask what medicine he's taking? it may not only be affecting his sexual desire/performance - it may be affecting his ability to be focused and productive.

 

when you are describing the issues in your relationship - be specific with him - and be perfectly clear about what needs to be done. it may be that you expect perfection and things done your way... just let him at least do it - even if it's not the way you want it to be.

 

leave him a specific list every day about things he can get done.

 

allow him to choose 5-6 things off the list to do. do not nag about the whole list getting done. the whole idea is that he will know that if he does some things before you come home- that is better than nothing being done.

 

if you want him to be a good decision maker - give him the issue on paper that needs a decision... let him write out his solution and present the idea to you when you get home.

 

it would be a start - maybe getting him moving in a direction that would later become a good habit.

 

i am wondering what effects the medicine could be having on him?

[Decisiontomake]

Men like to solve problems.

I feel as though he has forgotten how to do this as he's so used to me doing it. I know part of that is my fault as I've facilitated that balance in our relationship but I am now really asking him to take that gauntlet back at least in part.

 

You could tell him that when you talk to him, that he doesnt necessarily need to agree with you, but you do need him to acknowledge what you say and give you the right to your own feelings.

We had a good chat along these lines today - I explained to him that when we've sat previously and come up with ideas for him to take more of an active role, he's taken it on board but then not followed through. I explained that it is really hurtful to me that he does that, but it also damages my trust in him to do things when we sit and go through stuff again - he said he completely got that.

 

Him being unemployed at the moment is a very important issue I think you left out of your original message. In order to give you more objective advice, we need to know the circumstances around that. Is it by choice? Is he being lazy and passive in trying to find a job? Or is he truly working at finding another one but nothing's coming up?

 

I covered some of this in the answer to a post above. I don't think he is being lazy and passive in job hunting itself, but he is falling at first hurdles alot of the time "they need this or that for that role", "I don't think I can do that type of thing", "I'm not educated enough for that" - I think his self esteem is really low and from the convo I had with him on Friday night I think it confirmed that. I know it sounds harsh of me to keep saying this but my frustration is that if my self esteem is low, if I'm depressed, if I just can't face my work I have no choice but to just suck it up and get on with it as if I fall at the first hurdle in my job, we don't have any money coming in. It makes me resentful that he's not capable of some of the jobs available.

 

You also mentioned he had an affair 8 years ago? Do you know and understand why it happened?

He said that at the time he felt like he didn't need me. I had been promoted at work and was starting to earn fairly OK money for the first time since having my kids. He said he felt not needed in the marriage and therefore had an affair with a stay at home housewife he met at our children's nursery who was able to make him feel needed.

Do you understand why he did it?

Yes, although the job I had taken was for the family and had been discussed by the two of us at length regarding what that would mean with me commuting longer and the hours it would need so I don't condone the reasoning.

 

Does it make sense? Was there something wrong with your relationship at the time? Were you guys more distant, drifting apart?

It does make sense, yes. Not sure there was something "wrong" with the relationship as such, in fact we were very happy in the relationship at that time, but I understand why he did it.

 

Would it make it OK though for me now to have an affair with an affluent, assertive guy because I'm not getting that from my OH?

 

If you understand all the circumstances that opened the door for an affair, have you guys found a solution to that? Do you feel he truly understands how much hurt he did to you? Do you truly feel his remorse? Do you truly believe he'll never do it again?

I think the answers would be yes to the first questions in this paragraph and no to whether he'd ever do it again. The counseling we had after the affair and our relationship subsequently, was very thorough and strong. I don't believe this would happen again and if it did, we both understand enough that we know it would be the end of the marriage.

 

You asked some great questions, so thank you for taking the time to be so thorough

[Decisiontomake]

can i ask what medicine he's taking? it may not only be affecting his sexual desire/performance - it may be affecting his ability to be focused and productive. It's definitely the medicine affecting his desire/performance! The Docs are working on it at the moment and he's now onto another med, which they are hoping will make some difference.

 

However, is it too much information to put on here that we actually had sex today??!!!

 

when you are describing the issues in your relationship - be specific with him - and be perfectly clear about what needs to be done. it may be that you expect perfection and things done your way... just let him at least do it - even if it's not the way you want it to be.

 

Yep, get that - I can be a control freak and think that only I can do it the right way - have worked on that. Even yesterday when he had to spend some money that we hadn't budgeted for (for our dog!), I said he'd need to check our budget spreadsheet (I have been asking him to be more involved in our finances forever) and he didn't check it yesterday. I left it, but went to bed a little mad that he hadn't done so, thinking it was just another indicator of the fact he was going to leave it to me. However, I kept quiet and this morning, he got up before me, and when I came out of our bedroom, he was online checking bank balances and working through the spreadsheet. I was really pleased and although he had to ask me to go through some of the stuff with him, the fact that he'd done it was just lovely and I told him so.

 

leave him a specific list every day about things he can get done.

Went through a stage of doing that, but that just makes him like my assistant and that's not good for either of us.

 

allow him to choose 5-6 things off the list to do. do not nag about the whole list getting done. the whole idea is that he will know that if he does some things before you come home- that is better than nothing being done.

Hmm, I want him to see some of things that in our family need doing on an ongoing basis - I didn't marry him to mother him - and I think it's important for him as much as me that he can take up the gauntlet on stuff like this.

 

if you want him to be a good decision maker - give him the issue on paper that needs a decision... let him write out his solution and present the idea to you when you get home.

Good point - he said today that he has a different way of looking at things than me and he has to get into the right mindset to understand how he can take something I've started and finish it - we're gonna work on this one together.

 

it would be a start - maybe getting him moving in a direction that would later become a good habit.

 

i am wondering what effects the medicine could be having on him? He did suffer a horrible trauma last year and it was brain related so there are elements of his reactions now that will be leftover from that. it is like the traits he had before that were the more passive ones have been heightened somewhat. I'm wondering if he needs some kind of counseling to overcome it.

[dgiirl]

I covered some of this in the answer to a post above. I don't think he is being lazy and passive in job hunting itself, but he is falling at first hurdles alot of the time "they need this or that for that role", "I don't think I can do that type of thing", "I'm not educated enough for that" - I think his self esteem is really low and from the convo I had with him on Friday night I think it confirmed that.

 

That is very frustrating. He should not be letting anything stopping him from sending his resume and making a follow up call. What's the worse that can happen? They'll just say he's not qualified. However, if he's not qualified for that job, it's VERY possible they might be looking to hire for another job. He has to show assertiveness. He has to be confident about himself and sell himself to the company. If he's just going to send his resume to a few places, with no follow-up, the only time the company will call him back is if they are completely desperate to find someone. Otherwise, they'll interview the other people who DO show interest in the company and the position.

 

Based on some of your other responses, I think his actions are more than just passiveness. Is he suffering from anxiety or depression? My exh was a control freak. Anything he wanted done, HAD to be done his way, even down to the type of bread and milk we bought. I have always suffered from anxiety, but it became a lot worse during our marriage. I became so immobilize that I was petrified of doing anything without him. I use to be petrified of going to the bank teller to pay a bill, or to the bakery section of the grocery store to cut a loaf of bread. Looking back at myself, it was insane the amount of anxiety I would get. It does sound like your husband might be suffering from some of my old symptoms of depression and anxiety, especially if he became overly sensitive to your past controlling ways.

 

 

I know it sounds harsh of me to keep saying this but my frustration is that if my self esteem is low, if I'm depressed, if I just can't face my work I have no choice but to just suck it up and get on with it as if I fall at the first hurdle in my job, we don't have any money coming in. It makes me resentful that he's not capable of some of the jobs available.

 

It's perfectly natural to want an equal partner in your marriage. I think anyone would become resentful if their partner just decided to give up all responsibilities and left it to them. That's a lot of stress for one person.

 

He said that at the time he felt like he didn't need me. I had been promoted at work and was starting to earn fairly OK money for the first time since having my kids. He said he felt not needed in the marriage and therefore had an affair with a stay at home housewife he met at our children's nursery who was able to make him feel needed.

 

Hmm. It does sound like you currently dont need him now. I dont want to alarm you, but I would be cautious. You guys are already walking on thin ice with thoughts of separation. And your complaints, although valid, might come across to him as you not needing him again.

 

 

Would it make it OK though for me now to have an affair with an affluent, assertive guy because I'm not getting that from my OH?

 

Please, do not misunderstand my line of questioning. I'm not condoning his affair. That is HIS choice and his alone. However, to get past an affair, you both need to take on responsibility for what led UP to the affair. Where was the marriage failing that opened up those doors? If it wasnt failing at all, if the affair didnt make any sense, if he just decided to have an affair for no reason whatsoever, then he wouldnt be someone capable of building a long committed relationship. It does sound like you understand how and why it happened, and you've both got past it.

[turquoise]

Hi decisiontomake,

Wow, your situation is very much like mine in some ways. I too am thinking of leaving, we have been married for 10 years and have 3 kids.

I have been unhappy on and off since our honeymoon (i cried the whole time), and I can't handle living like this anymore! my H and I are so different, we have apsolutely NOTHING in common and he won't make an effort with our marriage at all. I feel like his mother, he constantly tells me everything around the house/kids are "my job" as i'm a stay at home mum and he works outside the home ( won't even make me a coffee, that's my job to serve him!). We have been to marriage counselling quite a few times over the years but he sounds like your hubby, he doesn't get it!

I understand you completely, if your marriage is anything like mine, there is NEVER anything nice anymore. My husband won't go anywhere with our family, i feel like a single mum most of the time.

But like you, I have stayed for the kids and also i don't want to hurt him, even though he hurts me (emotionally) daily. I know my husband loves me (or he says he does?) but he is a passenger (like you said), he can't be bothered to do anything to make our marriage better until he thinks i'll leave. So i'm like you at the moment, I'm tired of living with a man i don't love or respect (but still care about & don't want to hurt) but also don't want to hurt my children. WHAT DO WE DO??? (sorry to make this about me too, but i thought you might like to know there are others dealing with the same problem)

[Decisiontomake]

Hello again, since the "break through" this time last week with OH was crying and expressing his feelings like I had not heard him do so before, we have had a really fulfilling week. Fulfilling is the only word I can think, to adequately describe it, as its not been great, or all happiness and roses (just due to general life stresses rather than marriage specific ones), but we seem to have created a higher level of communication. OH has been incredibly pro-active this week on the job front and even had a couple of interviews, one of which sounds rather promising. He also talked to one of our oldest friends (a guy who he has known for years) and that seemed to really help him too in terms of how he is feeling, and in terms of realising the damage he has been doing to the relationship. So, all in all, it's been an OK week and I thought it worth posting that so that it's not always about the bad stuff! Keep your fingers crossed for him on the job front as regardless of all the other stuff that needs dealing with, this is a big step in getting him back into the land of the living!