Z_man Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I know that when I say, "all guys" that looks like stereotyping there but that's just it, I have witnessed that blanket statement being applied to all guys. Would it be reassuring to women if they knew that not all guys are cheaters? I was raised in the old school, where your word meant something, I also know quite a few male friends that believe relationships should be cherished and would not hook up, with an easy woman just to 'get some'. When I hear the statements "All men are dogs." or "All men will eventually cheat someday", those statements get me down because you can't really say you know every man individaully. You would catch Hell if you made those statements about another group. Women, despite some of the jerks you may have come into contact with, believe it or not, there are men out there, who believe cheating is a tactic of a "low dog" and would not want to be seen that way. Any thoughts on this? Link to post Share on other sites
Layla Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I think that there are a lot of good guys out there who believe in a stable relationship and actually love the thought of being faithful to that girlfriend of theirs. Maybe this sounds a bit sexist, but as I am a woman myself, I allow myself to make a stereotypical negative comment on women: I believe there is some jealousy out there and there are a few women who haven't been successful in relationships and therefore try to destroy what others have. They try to seduce a guy whatever it takes and I do believe that men generally have it harder to resist. Let's face it girls! We are probably all pretty enough to seduce a guy for a one night stand, even if he is in a relationship. But luckily, most women (me included) simply steer off clearly from married men or men in a relationship as we can't see the point in getting used for a one night stand. Or just feel too "precious" to spend time and effort ;-) on a guy that is taken. What's the point. And most of all, it is wrong! The few girls out there who take pride in "seducing" someone who says he is happy with his girlfriend will always exist. Best is not to worry to much! In the end, all we can do is trust our man or walk. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Z_man Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 Wow Layla, that was pretty insightful. I never thought of it from that angle before! Yeah, I believe that type of vindictiveness lies in both genders and the number of women who do that are in a small percentage. However, that is still something to keep in the back of your head, just in case. Link to post Share on other sites
Iamhappy Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I don't think all men are cheaters - just the one I was with. Then again, he has no soul and guilt is a foreign concept to him made up by women who have grudges against men so maybe he shouldn't even be classified as a man. I know you're probably thinking "bitter much?" Well, heck, yeah, I'm bitter - towards him, but not to all of mankind. There's always going to be a few bad apples in the bunch. When you bite into one, it's hard to forget. When you bite into two, you begin to think the whole bunch is rotten. Link to post Share on other sites
EnigmaXOXO Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I have never met a man, whether it be friend, relative, lover or otherwise who hasn't cheated at some point in his life. I suppose this is why, given my limited personal experience, that it was so easy to believe for so long that it was within their inherent natures. Then again, I also have many female friends who are now doing the same, so from my own limited perspective it seems to be an escalating trend that no longer supports my old gender bias views. Fortunately, I also know females who don't cheat (myself included)...so as long as this holds true, I suppose it is unfair for any of us to say "everyone cheats," whether male or female. Believe it or not, your post is truthfully the first time I have ever heard a male say that he has never cheated. Its refreshing! Thank you so much for stepping up and shedding a new light on this situation for me. Perhaps it will give all of us hope that there will always be a chance that we can enter a truly monogamous relationship with someone of similar values. Then again...can we really ever say "never?" Link to post Share on other sites
kurty Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 i wish to say not all guys are jerk. believe it or not, for all my relationship, its always the gal letting go. and when i got a gf, i never cheat or do nasty things behind her back. if anyone to blame, blame it on love. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 The idea that all men or all women are the same in any way is, intellectually, wrong. But let me talk a moment about the preconceived ideas and beliefs and experience (baggage) we bring with us and that filters our views. From the time we are kids we begin to pile up the baggage. When we start dating we already have preconceived notions of the opposite sex (or same sex if one is a homosexual) from what our parents / ministers / family / friends have been telling us for years. When our preconceptions clash with our dates preconceptions we generally add some of their baggage to ours by either confirming things that we were told before or by disproving them, thereby causing even more confusion and more baggage. I’ll give you a personal example. -I was brought up being told (drilled into my head) that ALL men wanted sex. -Sex was ALL they were after. -Men didn’t know or feel love the way women do. -NEVER have sex before marriage it’s a sin and you’ll go to hell. NO man will respect you. -ALL men lie to get what they want – sex. -A man will either leave you for a whore who will have sex with him, or he will marry you so he can have sex with you. -If you don’t have sex with him when he wants, he will find someone who will. NEVER trust a man. -Women can vote and work and have responsibilities and pay equal to a man, but women will always and forever be subservient to men. -Women must act meek and timid and not express their own opinions until AFTER they are married. It is acceptable by then. (I never even thought to question to whom it was acceptable) I was told all of these things by my mother and my grandmother. It was an indoctrination like religion. Or brainwashing. This baggage was not so easily disproved the way Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny were. As you know, it’s not always something we automatically grow out of. We carry these preconceived ideas into our relationships and often we subconsciously apply the behaviors and attitudes of our dates to fit these ideas and when we can’t fit our dates into our preconceived ideas we begin to question and doubt ourselves and our families. Sometimes we can get rid of our baggage with not much effort – sometimes it requires heavy therapy, and sometimes we carry it with us forever. Not everyone was raised the way I was – thankfully. I was raised to not trust anyone. My family wasn’t doing this out of spite or cruelty, but out of their own hurt feelings and experiences and in an effort to protect me from being hurt the way they were. (I only just found out that my father cheated on my mother during the war. No wonder she was so hurt and told me such things) When I met my husband I knew I wanted to marry him. I loved him. I also ‘knew’ that he was not able to love me the same way and that he would either leave me or marry me. I “tested” both of us by giving him my heart and sleeping with him before we were married. I was prepared for him to leave me, but I didn’t believe he would and he didn’t. Anyway, I subconsciously, based on my baggage, chose someone with problems of their own and fit in with my preconceived ideas. My husband hated women. He was severely abused as a child and his mother abandoned him to his bitter, ignorant, alcoholic, abusive father, who raised him to hate his mother and to hate all women. He believed that women were only on this earth to be used and discarded by men. He also had no self-esteem and didn’t think he was a worthy enough man to be able to do even this. Using and throwing away were almost like achievements to be reached. I knew that he was confused with me, and feeling things that went against his preconceived beliefs. In other words, I was someone special to him. After we were together we kept adding more and more shared baggage. He used to jokingly tell people “OH NO! DON’T GET MARRIED!” and crack jokes about how awful it was. Intellectually I knew he was joking, but in my heart I felt it as a hard slap to me and it confirmed my preconceived notions that men don’t feel the same way we do, and I would have to be more subservient to keep him. And subservience is not in my nature! I didn’t need to feel or practice it growing up because there wasn’t a man around to whom I had to be subservient and I never saw my mother or grandmother practice subservience. I just knew that it was going to be part of my duties as a wife someday. At one point, early in our marriage, we had a heart-to-heart talk about why he married me. He said it was because he felt obligated to me because he wasn’t working. He said he cared about me a lot, but didn’t really love me. We broke up and got back together several times. Of course, we had problems with trust and communication. We didn’t understand ourselves so how could we begin to understand each other. It took a lot of therapy on both our parts to learn these things about ourselves and to confront them and deal with them. I cried A LOT in those years. We still have twinges of those trust issues creep back into our lives, but now we have communication tools to deal with them. In 20 short years we went from “obligated” to “I couldn’t live without you.” Even with all the struggles we had, neither of us has EVER cheated on the other. My husband believed that cheating was wrong. Period. No discussion. And even if he were unhappy or unfulfilled it was his duty as the man to leave and be single before starting up any kind of relationship – even one night stands – with anyone else. He stuck to that firmly. One of the few things in my marriage that I have never doubted and always trusted is that he has never cheated. I used to get jealous and fear it sometimes but not seriously. Link to post Share on other sites
jenny Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 what a beautiful, genuine, struggling, story. wow...you have such cajones to stick it through like that, and to be able to retell it so honestly....wow. i don't even know what to say. i love hearing women's stories, but that is one i will remember. Link to post Share on other sites
jalexy Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 i know not all men cheat. just the absolute jerks do. Link to post Share on other sites
Nostalghia Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I used to cheat. Felt like the biggest piece of scum and vowed NEVER again. Life is great now with one woman. The funny thing is I get more attention from women when I DON'T want it as if constantly testing my new found ethics! Well, when you are in love cheating becomes "unnecessary"! Link to post Share on other sites
Monica Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 No all guys do not cheat atleast mine don't Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 I have never met a man, whether it be friend, relative, lover or otherwise who hasn't cheated at some point in his life. Pleasure to make your acquaintance. Link to post Share on other sites
Jamie31 Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Well, not ALL guys are cheaters....mine isn't. That's for sure. He knows better....he knows if he did, his balls would be hanging from my rear view mirror!!!! But I think non-cheaters are rare and hard to find. Most men don't care unless they really love who their with. And it's ify then sometimes...but not ALL men are cheaters. Link to post Share on other sites
vixen Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Wow, some great thoughts, beautiful stories and honest confessions. I for one am truely against cheating. I think it's among the worst thing a person could do to someone. I'm thankful my jon feels cheating is "idiotic, not nessicary, wrong." Trust is a beautiful thing between man and woman, it's one of the stronger bonds that tie. I'm happy we have honest men on this board saying "here here" I'm proud of you guys, and gals. ^_^ We can make a diffrence. Vixen Link to post Share on other sites
Nostalghia Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 MOST men cheat .... the rest just LIE about it! Teehee ... just kidding - I had to say that! Link to post Share on other sites
rayray Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 This is the only cheat I know of. Link to post Share on other sites
zman Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Speaking of cheating, I just want to set the record straight that the "Z_man" who started this thread is NOT the Original, One and Only, zman that you all have come to know and love over the past several months. This guy is an imposter! He is from California and I'm from Oregon. Enough said. Granted, I don't have any copyright to the name and this is only a message board, but still. Link to post Share on other sites
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