All This Talk About Women Aging....

[Isolde]

Basically both men and women would benefit if they start thinking seriously about marriage before the age of 30. It takes so much effort and luck, and so many different pieces need to fall into place, that even if everything goes to plan, if you meet that one around 30, 35 is the realistic age where you'd be settled enough to have babies.

 

I agree. However, I'll qualify this by adding that it's not the kind of thing that can be planned, aside from knowing it's what you want, and being the best you can be (bringing the best to the table, or whatever). Regardless, you're right that if people took things somewhat more seriously in their twenties, things would become easier. That's not to say any relationship needs to lead to marriage, just that if you're in a relationship that isn't going anywhere and isn't based on strong emotional chemistry, you may want to leave instead of wallowing in the familiarity of it. At the very least, people in their twenties may be better off dating LESS but dating deeper. If that makes sense.

[clv0116]

Actually, LET'S talk about you, you are a great example for this thread topic because you are the epitome of the style of man that thinks he can hold out his sperm forever.

 

I honestly didn't realize my sperm was in such high demand that I was holding it out from the world of women.

 

 

 

That he will have the best possibilities to make a family with the most desirable women, to make the best babies, simply because he is a man and he can make money. The whole purpose of this thread is to show men like yourself that there are definite downfalls to waiting around for later years to make children ....

 

All life choices involve tradeoffs. For men, as far as I could find (I never located the actual study) there might be a penalty of 3 IQ points over the 30 year span from age 20 to 50. Three IQ points. I'm already so far up the IQ food chain that the odds of my kids being smarter than me are pretty low anyway, but the odds they will be brighter than average is extremely good. Obviously this won't old true for all men over 20. Should a 30 year old man be concerned with the possible 1 IQ point penalty he incurs? I doubt it comes up much, really.

 

Being born second child costs you 2.3, being born 3rd costs 2.9. Did the study correct for this?

 

Then compare that with the enormous increase in things like Downs Symdrome in conception for women over 35, add in their vastly reduced fertility, and really, men should have concerns, but not so many.

 

 

 

but you have used the entire opportunity to deny the findings and find some way to denigrate this new discovery

 

See above.

 

 

 

Here you are dating three women simultaneously, all half your age and even in this predicament you still find fault with all three, they are STILL not good enough for you and you still convey dissatisfaction with all three women. Any man who is looking for love would not be dating three women half his age all at the same time and find fault with all three.

 

Honestly I have to say, I don't find my present 'predicament' so hard to live with. Just saying. No one is perfect and where you see finding fault I see honest evaluation, forcing love to be less blind. The only reason I'm dating 3 is because I don't have time for 4.

 

 

 

.... none of those women are good enough for you because you simply can't fall in love with someone that doesn't touch you in a way that your soul needs to be touched. You are looking for fulfill only superficial needs, and your heart simply does not respond to that.

 

On the contrary, I'm very fond of two of them. I could see marrying either one, they are both excellent people and capable women. If things fail to progress I will give the youngest the boot and keep looking, but things seem to be progressing just dandy so far.

[Isolde]

I agree. However, I'll qualify this by adding that it's not the kind of thing that can be planned, aside from knowing it's what you want, and being the best you can be (bringing the best to the table, or whatever). Regardless, you're right that if people took things somewhat more seriously in their twenties, things would become easier. That's not to say any relationship needs to lead to marriage, just that if you're in a relationship that isn't going anywhere and isn't based on strong emotional chemistry, you may want to leave instead of wallowing in the familiarity of it. At the very least, people in their twenties may be better off dating LESS but dating deeper. If that makes sense.

 

I'll also add that it can get tricky for women because we don't like the idea of "pushing" for marriage, if the guy isn't ready. So that's another reason some couples marry later. You're right, both genders need to think about marriage more seriously a bit earlier in life.

[pollywag]

On the contrary, I'm very fond of two of them. I could see marrying either one, they are both excellent people and capable women. If things fail to progress I will give the youngest the boot and keep looking, but things seem to be progressing just dandy so far.

 

 

I'm sorry clv, but your posts just completely contradict themselves. You can see marrying two of the women but you won't commit to any of them and need to stay with all three now and would have 4 if you had more time!!?!? If you could honestly see marrying even one of these women you would not need all of them and on top of it more.

 

Your love life sounds like an episode of the Bachelor, makes for mediocre tv but that's about it.

[Sam Spade]

Sam Spade I agree with your entire post, well said!

 

 

I would like to add if you don't mind, that not all people who reach 35 unattached, do so because they were slutting around and partying. Sometimes people had their hearts in the right place but their heads were not. Or some people devoted a lot of time to relationships they should have not, others chose to focus on their careers and before they knew it they were 35 and single somewhat out of touch with themselves. Every story is different

 

But the sure sign that a person is stuck in perpetual teen mode is that if they do reach 35 and still expect to get the kinds of partners you would when you were 19 but expect the benefits of someone 35 with the body, youth and looks of someone 19 then you have not matured. This dysmorphic expectation is what differentiates those who never grew up from those who simply placed imporance in things other than marriage and starting a family in younger years but not necessariy partying and sleeping around.

 

Yep, yep, true dat..., but regardless of the reasons, the challenges are likely to be there, ad least to an extent. At 32, I already feel kinda behind, (part of the reason being a combination of loooong schooling and a looong relationship that went down the drain; that's why marriage merits more transacitonal approah, but that's a different topic)

 

As for physical appearance of partners, a point I had not paid much attention to myself, I was surprised by the discrete change in my own preferences around the time I turned 30 . From recognizing nothing but skinny model-like girls built like young boys, all of a sudden I became more easily enchanted by women with some curves on them , and generally started to appreciate wider variety of female builds . My friends have reported similar changes. (This is probably nature's way of telling us that it is time we shelved our latent homosexuality and started paying more attention to attributes signifying procreational potential )

[pollywag]

I

 

Honestly I have to say, I don't find my present 'predicament' so hard to live with. Just saying. No one is perfect and where you see finding fault I see honest evaluation, forcing love to be less blind. The only reason I'm dating 3 is because I don't have time for 4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't find your present situation hard either. As I am sure you can live off of frozen disposable container dinners, that would not be hard, but I do believe it would be the least satifying given how much more you could live on.

[pollywag]

As for physical appearance of partners, a point I had not paid much attention to myself, I was surprised by the discrete change in my own preferences around the time I turned 30 . From recognizing nothing but skinny model-like girls built like young boys, all of a sudden I became more easily enchanted by women with some curves on them , and generally started to appreciate wider variety of female builds . My friends have reported similar changes. (This is probably nature's way of telling us that it is time we shelved our latent homosexuality and started paying more attention to attributes signifying procreational potential )

 

 

That was the best line ever!! :lmao: Too funny Sam.

 

Personally, I have no qualms with people being attracted to what they are attracted to physically, I won't dispute that. I have no qualms with the 50 yr old man that still prefers that woman built like a boy, we like what we like. I just think as we get older though we should be realistic in our requests and that is how we find the most fulfilling of relationships, if we are constantly trying to obtain something that is just not appropriate given our own personal offerings, then that's having dysmorphic expectations. The types of men that want a 19 year old MBA that is ready for marriage, has fully matured emotionally and wants a man twice her age ready to become an instant mom, and will stay focused on being a good housewife and mom are the types of men that need a reality check or that never had a youth themselves. It is TOO MUCH to ask of a young woman. No young woman in their right mind will be able to take this on and not feel like they missed out on their youth without eventually resenting the man. No woman.

 

So these types of men should welcome a reality check because they may think they are settling for the best but don't realize that the best for them will be nothing. I suppose some men do believe they deserve nothing, and I think that is the bottom line for the types that make unobtainable requests. It's not about youth or good looks it is about not believing you are worthy of true all-encompassing love.

[BUENG1]

That was the best line ever!! :lmao: Too funny Sam.

 

Personally, I have no qualms with people being attracted to what they are attracted to physically, I won't dispute that. I have no qualms with the 50 yr old man that still prefers that woman built like a boy, we like what we like. I just think as we get older though we should be realistic in our requests and that is how we find the most fulfilling of relationships, if we are constantly trying to obtain something that is just not appropriate given our own personal offerings, then that's having dysmorphic expectations. The types of men that want a 19 year old MBA that is ready for marriage, has fully matured emotionally and wants a man twice her age ready to become an instant mom, and will stay focused on being a good housewife and mom are the types of men that need a reality check or that never had a youth themselves. It is TOO MUCH to ask of a young woman. No young woman in their right mind will be able to take this on and not feel like they missed out on their youth without eventually resenting the man. No woman.

 

So these types of men should welcome a reality check because they may think they are settling for the best but don't realize that the best for them will be nothing. I suppose some men do believe they deserve nothing, and I think that is the bottom line for the types that make unobtainable requests. It's not about youth or good looks it is about not believing you are worthy of true all-encompassing love.

 

You may hope that all this is the case, but reality says different. Older men marry often later in life and live very fulfilling lives, with wives and children. And there's nothing that's been posted than suggests otherwise(unless we should consider your observation that elderly women are more social in nursing homes than elderly men as a very credible point and others similiar).

[pollywag]

And there's nothing that's been posted than suggests otherwise(unless we should consider your observation that elderly women are more social in nursing homes than elderly men as a very credible point and others similiar).

 

I never said "women in nursing homes" are more sociable, I said elderly women tend to be more sociable than elderly men. It's not my observation only and actually there is plenty that has been posted on the subject feel free to read it:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/jun/11/longtermcare.socialcare1

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2420332/Women-happier-than-men-and-enjoy-life-more-in-old-age.html

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1025312/How-half-million-lonely-old-men-paying-price-divorce-boom.html

 

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20061125f2.html

 

 

http://50plus.com/50plus-article-print.cfm?documentID=8607

[clv0116]

From recognizing nothing but skinny model-like girls ... all of a sudden I became more easily enchanted ... and generally started to appreciate wider variety of female builds . My friends have reported similar changes.

 

This is probably a way of rationalizing settling for what you can get. Cool, but don't hate guys who still date the model looking girls.

[clv0116]

I'm sorry clv, but your posts just completely contradict themselves. You can see marrying two of the women but you won't commit to any of them and need to stay with all three now and would have 4 if you had more time!!?!? If you could honestly see marrying even one of these women you would not need all of them and on top of it more.

 

You're either intentionally or intrinsically obtuse. What I clearly said was that I'm dating 3, almost down to 2, and as long as things progress it will be one pretty soon. If things fail to progress I can simply refill the queue, but as I said, "things seem to be progressing just dandy so far".

 

I've only been dating with a view to marriage a short time and honestly it's ridiculously easy to find cute, smart, sexy women under 30 to date.

[BUENG1]

You're either intentionally or intrinsically obtuse. What I clearly said was that I'm dating 3, almost down to 2, and as long as things progress it will be one pretty soon. If things fail to progress I can simply refill the queue, but as I said, "things seem to be progressing just dandy so far".

 

I've only been dating with a view to marriage a short time and honestly it's ridiculously easy to find cute, smart, sexy women under 30 to date.

 

Na I don't think so, you'll end up with nothing like pollywag said. Clearly she is the expert on your life.

[clv0116]

Na I don't think so, you'll end up with nothing like pollywag said. Clearly she is the expert on your life.

 

My apologies, my mistake. Long live the matriarchy! All hail!

[pollywag]

You're either intentionally or intrinsically obtuse.

 

 

Do you really think that's what it is? Don't blame me when the vacancy in your soul is palpable clv. You could be dating 20 models right now but that doesn't get you any closer to real love and I think deep down you recognize this otherwise you would have "settled for the best" already considering how easy it is for you to come by "extremely desirable" young women.

 

Love is not that complicated. It's either there or it's not. You are either capable of loving or you are not. Everything else is filler.

[Jake Barnes]

Do you really think that's what it is? Don't blame me when the vacancy in your soul is palpable clv. You could be dating 20 models right now but that doesn't get you any closer to real love and I think deep down you recognize this otherwise you would have "settled for the best" already considering how easy it is for you to come by "extremely desirable" young women.

 

Love is not that complicated. It's either there or it's not. You are either capable of loving or you are not. Everything else is filler.

He talks of love like hes a Roman senator selecting a Thracian slave

 

Thats pretty cool actually. I wish I could approach love like Crassus buying a house mistress

[blind_otter]

That doesn't mean that he SHOULD, though. I mean, realistically speaking, a girl CAN have babies from her first period on - around 11 or 12. So does that mean she should become a mother at 12?

 

I didn't say they should, I said it is physically POSSIBLE for men to inseminate women - whereas a postmenopausal woman CANNOT POSSIBLY become pregnant. That's all I'm saying. Regardless of the IQ of any subsequent offspring, they can exist if the father is older, and they cannot (barring significant and disturbing medical intervention, IMO) exist if the mother is older.

 

That is all.

 

Also, most studies show that extremely young mothers tend to have babies with significantly lower birth weight, among other issues. It has to do with their bodies not being completely developed at the time of pregnancy.

 

I never said "women in nursing homes" are more sociable, I said elderly women tend to be more sociable than elderly men.

 

Well there are a lot more elderly women running around, than elderly men; maybe the elderly men are merely overwhelmed. My Dad (who, according to this thread, should have produced a litter of complete morons) often complained of the elderly women who would hit on him when he went to the grocery store.

 

They would swarm on him in droves, even when I was with him (they always assumed I was either his caretaker or granddaughter). He was always fending them off with scowls and monotone answers.

[Chicago_Guy]

I'm 33 and I don't think I want a woman in her early 20s, as the ones I have met, at least at bars, seem to be very immature.

 

I don't see a problem with dating a younger woman, although I do think it is kind of disgusting when I see 50-year old men out on dates with attractive women in their early 20s. I see this from time to time in Chicago and I assume that the women are either escorts or total gold diggers. I honestly think something is wrong with a woman in her early 20s who wants to date a guy 25+ years older than her, but maybe that is just me.

 

By the way, I disagree with the previous poster who wrote that women preferring thin women have some sort of hidden homosexuality. That is one of the stupidest things I have ever read. So what if some guys prefer thin women - it's pretty common. I personally prefer women with athletic builds. I know some guys think an athletic build (toned, but not muscular like a guy) on a woman is somehow masculine, but in my experience the guys who say that haven't worked out in years, are really out of shape, and know that they could never attract an athletic woman themselves.

[alexbob45]

Some thoughts are remember forever... I feel the same feeling with the above words....

In the mean time I am not worried too much....

Thanks,

_______

workout plans

[clv0116]

First, if anyone can locate an actual study related to the OP I'd like to read it. Seriously.

 

.... You could be dating 20 models right now but that doesn't get you any closer to real love ....

 

Yeah, I know, "real" love with a "real" woman. Someone more your age and not really very pretty probably. Right. Oddly enough, no matter what age she is, or how good she looks, every woman thinks she is capable of real love whereas the younger and or prettier women are shallow and only capable of providing an incomplete relationship experience. I particularly enjoyed someone earlier in the thread saying "well he's dating three because they all add up to one real woman".

 

A "real" woman. Here's a hint sister; they're all real. Really.

 

 

Love is not that complicated. It's either there or it's not. You are either capable of loving or you are not. Everything else is filler.

 

I don't subscribe to the idiotic Hollywood version of what romantic love is. For me love is the result of a pair of people getting to know each other thoroughly and deciding to stick with each other anyway, to put it in a slightly humorous way.

[pollywag]

 

Well there are a lot more elderly women running around, than elderly men; maybe the elderly men are merely overwhelmed. My Dad (who, according to this thread, should have produced a litter of complete morons) often complained of the elderly women who would hit on him when he went to the grocery store.

 

 

 

That's because women outlive men so naturally there are far more women around in your dad's age group than men. Just for being born a boy, a baby has 6 yrs taken of his life expectancy. That was not the point, and not sure what your point is?!?! The point was that elderly women are more sociable and have more people around them than elderly men tend to have.

 

 

By the way, I disagree with the previous poster who wrote that women preferring thin women have some sort of hidden homosexuality....

 

 

I believe that was supposed to be a joke.

 

 

I particularly enjoyed someone earlier in the thread saying "well he's dating three because they all add up to one real woman".

 

 

 

Yes that was me who said that. What I did say was that it's no wonder you have to date three women at the same time and claim you would marry at leat two of them but yet can't commit to any one of them because it takes at least three women for you to make up a mature complete and interesting woman. The type of unicorn woman you are trying to create, that is...

 

I don't doubt they are all real women, it's not the young women that are at fault here it is you who is trying to overcompensate for what each woman is lacking by dating the other two women at the same time.

[Anaa]

lol......................

[clv0116]

I'm still waiting for a link or at least the name of that study in the OP.

 

 

That's because women outlive men .... Just for being born a boy, a baby has 6 yrs taken of his life expectancy.

 

Partially true, however it's good to realize most of that is not intrinsic to being male. The jury is sort of split as to whether there is even a real longevity penalty for being male, and the real quantifiable difference is much smaller than your stat suggests.

 

 

 

.... it's no wonder you have to date three women at the same time and ... yet can't commit to any one of them because it takes at least three women for you to make up a mature complete and interesting woman.

 

Interesting and telling use of the word 'mature' in a sentence. Other than the teenager they are all quite mature enough and dating more than one has nothing to do with not committing. If I dated one at a time finding the one I want to commit to would just take longer. I've only been seeing these women less than a year; you reckon I should have a house, wife and 2.3 kids already?

 

I'm a lot more careful than that.

 

Women routinely multi-date (although they camouflage it very adeptly) but when a man does it it's "he won't commit" all the sudden.

[pollywag]

. I've only been seeing these women less than a year; you reckon I should have a house, wife and 2.3 kids already?

 

:eek::eek: You have been dating all three women for nearly a year? I reckon you would have settled for the best after one month and not needd an entire year to get to know all three women, that's what any normal person does.

 

Ok it's official you either have severe commitment issues, OR the women simply won't commit to you because they just don't want to become instant mom/housewife to an old man. Or you you are a polygamist who needs a harem of women to create the unicorn I keep speaking of.

 

Women routinely multi-date (although they camouflage it very adeptly) but when a man does it it's "he won't commit" all the sudden.

 

 

Yes we do multidate, but not for a year!!! :rolleyes:

 

I have never heard of any woman or man for that matter date three people for a year, that wreaks of commitment issues and I don't know any respectable person who would agree to date a person for a year who is also dating two other people. Unless of course they are married and two timing their partners.

[clv0116]

Does this study in the OP really exist? Has anyone read it? Link it please.

 

 

You have been dating all three women for nearly a year? I reckon you would have settled for the best after one month and not needd an entire year to get to know all three women, that's what any normal person does.

 

Normal people get divorced half the time, make $50K a year, have an IQ of 100 and a host of other things I also want nothing to do with. It makes me giggle that you think I have commitment issues, thanks for that. I guess I should have found a fat little 40 year old woman with 2 kids, 14 metric tons of emotional baggage and two anti-depressant scripts. And then married her. Last year.

 

Yeah right.

[pollywag]

I don't subscribe to the idiotic Hollywood version of what romantic love is. For me love is the result of a pair of people getting to know each other thoroughly and deciding to stick with each other anyway, to put it in a slightly humorous way.

 

Love is a feeling clv, it's not to be thought about it is to be felt. Now what you do out of love, in terms of how you want to manifest that feeling, that's entirely up to you to think about and analyze. Unless you are guarding some sort of royal family treasure which is why you are screening all three women so incessantly, then juggling three women for a year is not love.

 

I have a feeling, given the comment you made about "Hollywood romance" that you have never experienced true love.