Sharing finances

[sakura75]

Would welcome advice please.

 

Boyfriend and I been together for a number of yrs on and off. Lived together before then broke up. But still saw each other and maintained a sort of r'ship. More serious again, talking about future together. Am confused though about what my expectations should be (& what his are). Issue is one of money, but more importantly for me, one of what is shared in a r'ship. In past we both worked, shared household expenses, but had our own bank accounts too. He earned more than me, and did, to his credit, pay higher % of expenses, but there were times when I was very aware of disparity. eg, he had m’ship to more exclusive gym, me to YMCA, as that’s what I could afford; different brands of clothing, kinds of social activities based on price.....

 

I was laid off a couple of months ago & have been living on redundancy money. That will soon go and then I am down to savings. (know that I am lucky to still have some savings in current climate). Have been looking for work, but not found anything. Tried to talk to bf about us living together again & situation if I’m still not working. Many of my married friends have joint accounts. A case of ‘what’s mine is yours’ and vice versa. Is this sth you only get if married? Bf was incredulous that I would even suggest we have a joint account, as it’s ‘his hard-earned money’. + He takes it that I am suggesting he is being tight – I’m not, and he isn’t. I don't expect him to but he will usually pay when we go for dinner etc. And I appreciate that, assuming he is working, he would take care of home and bills. Says that I only need to ask if I want anything (though points out I have some savings too), but should I have to ask every time I want to buy sth - everyday things, toiletries, get a haircut, friend's birthday present? I am not stupid with money or extravagant & he knows that I wouldn’t be out buying designer shoes etc (much as I would like to!) (If anything, I wonder if it’s more that he wouldn’t want me to see bank account and actually know what he spends). He says if the situation were reversed he wouldn’t like to ask me for money – if the situation were reversed he wouldn’t have to as I would share whatever I had with him anyway.

 

My alternative of course is to use my savings. Maybe savings are for times like this. But, whilst not a huge amount, I wanted that money to be for us - sth for the future - doing up a house, taking care of a family etc. Seems easier to sit on that pot of money than try to make it up again later. Maybe I am just whinging, and maybe it is ultimately my responsibility to take care of myself. (what he says). Just feels unfair that in a r’ship - which to me is about sharing - he can maintain his same lifestyle and I would be living frugally, as living on cash I don’t really want to spend.

 

I will hopefully be working again soon, so this becomes less of an issue. But what if this happened again? He says that if we had a family things would be different – he would give money for me and the children. So, everything is dependent on me having kids? Only then I would be his responsibility? Are my expectations unrealistic? Old-fashioned? Maybe there is only a sense of financial responsibility for a partner if married? Feels that whilst he’s happy to provide the home (and I am appreciative of that (though I do know from experience that running a flat for two doesn't actually cost much more than a flat for one)) beyond that it’s a case of what’s mine is his (my attitude), and what’s his is his. Thoughts please.

[curiousnycgirl]

Firstly what is "sth?" you use it throughout your post, in different contexts - just when I thought I figured it out, the context changed and I have no idea.

 

I honestly believe you are not being fair in your expectations of your b/f. You guys are not married, have not made a long term committment to each other - why should he support you and why would he put your name on his bank account?

 

I recognize that you two have lived together in the past - and that probably adds a level of familiarity that makes it easier for you to think he would step up - but why should he? Putting finances aside, how is the relationshp going? Were you guys making progress forward? Were you guys talking about moving in together again before you became redundant? Were you talking of marriage?

 

Feels to me like you are expecting him to step in simply because you need money. Very nice if one had such a saftery net, but reality is very few of us do.

 

Bottom line is this needs to come from him - if he wants to support you again, he will ask you to move back in and he will take care of things. I actually believe the financial arrangements you had in the past were likely more fair than your current expectations.

 

To give you an idea of my perspective on this - my b/f lost his job 4 years ago. I have been willing to help support him since which would mean we would have to live together - but he has refused. He feels strongly that he needs to do it on his own (sharing that so you get some insight to the guys' perspective).

 

I pay for everything we do together - vacations, dinners out, everything. But he supports himself.

 

Hope this helps.

[sakura75]

Hi

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

'sth' = something! Sorry if unclear.

 

We are not married, no. But perhaps after 12 years - on more than off - we should be, or we should move on...... He's never talked of marriage as a possibility - doesn't feel it's something he wants to do - so I have to accept that if I am with him that won't be part of my future.

 

We were already discussing moving back in together. Talking of having kids. Then redundancy. Just trying to be practical now. And save us both some money. He spends most of his week with me anyway, but we are running two flats. Soon, if I don't get a job, I won't be able to keep mine. Stupid to wait for that eventuality - if we are going to move back in together it might as well be sooner rather than later, so we don't have negative equity or flat repossession hanging over us.

 

As for general living costs, not looking for a safety net but support. Maybe it amounts to the same thing, I don't know. I just don't see friends in r'ships with different lifestyles, based on affordability. One going out to nice dinners and going on holidays (he's just been skiing; weekends away in US with mates around Xmas), the other at home cos no money. ok, situation a bit different as not living together again yet, but would it, or should it be any different if we were living together again, not married, but for all intents and purposes as man and wife? If not working, I would be at home, cleaning the house, cooking for him etc, which I would be happy to do. But, fulfilling a 'housewife's role', without being supported finanically as, I presume (and have seen), a wife would.

[Sam Spade]

Sharing finances completely is one of the things that spook me about marriage, and I will never do it. Of course, we will have joint accounts for all the joint expenses and investments, but I will always retain some considerable degree of independence in my finances, and will expect her to do the same. That would be MY safety net.

 

In your situation, you seem to have been together long enough to warrant more openned of the finances. But if i was him I would not agree to anything more than to help you out with some reasonable monthly contribution during the rought patch.

 

Also, you do have savings, and that's the porupose of the savings...

[curiousnycgirl]

Sakura -

 

I hate to say this, because you just don't need to hear more crap now, but he's just not that into you. 12 years and you two still haven't made any true committment to each other?! He goes on vacations without you? I agree with your position that if you two are in a relationship, then sometimes one puts in more, sometimes the other does - but that the two of you should somehow be on equal footing lifestyle wise.

 

Your circumstances are similar to mine (although it's the b/f who is not employed) - and I agree with your perspective that it makes no sense to pay for two homes if you are committed to each other. In my case my b/f does not want to be perceived to be living off of me, and would prefer to live of his savings until he gets back on his feet.

 

In your situation it appears your b/f would prefer to help you cover your expenses while continuing to live apart. I'll say it again - he's just not that into you.

 

You've said that you want children (or is it just he that wants them?) - there is no way on earth I would consider having kids with a man who feels it's ok to go on separate vacations because he has more money. He is not sharing a life with you - how can you count on him?

 

Personally I would be looking for the courage and strength to break it off with him for good. You may stalker button me, and realize that my guy is not committing either - however I my timeline is less critical as I have already past the age of having kids.

 

Sakura this is the time of your life that let's you know who your friends really are, and frankly your b/f cannot be coutned in that group.

 

I am so sorry.

[sakura75]

Thanks for replies. Some food for thought.

 

I do want a family - and we have talked about it. And I am sure that he would support us as a family. My issue, I suppose is that to 'qualify' for that support I have to first have a child. If just me: not his responsibility. Independence is all well and good, but savings won't last long, and then what, if I still don't have work, or have something that doesn't pay very well?

 

Do couples - married or not - expect to support each other through hard times (or hard times for one of them) beyond providing a roof over the other's head? If, through choice or circumstance - even for a short time - one partner is taking care of the home etc, should they not be treated as the homemaker (whilst also job-hunting) and supported financially while doing that? Harks back to traditional roles I know (though I would happily take on the breadwinner role if need be), but I am pretty sure that even before I came along my mother was supported by my dad if she wasn't working.

 

Can there actually be criteria for whether you get financial support from a partner?

[manugeorge]

I think CuriousinNY said it best, this guy is just not that into you. You've been on and off for 12 years and still haven't sh*t or gotten off the pot yet? It's about time to start making contigency plans, don't you think?

 

There are so many sides to this,

 

One, I agree that in a TRULY COMMITTED relationship, "what's mine is yours", the day he eats spam in a can, we eat it together and the day I eat filet mignon, we share it together. I will not in my right mind see my boyfriend laid off, and struggling and not extend help to him in any way I can. This would probably include not going on Ski trips without at least discussing it with him and making sure we are both OK with me going (if I must). But that is my and your approach to commitment. You can't automatically expect your boyfriend to share that same approach. Not everyone believes in what's mine is yours, their reasons are not any less valid. You should know your boyfriend enough to know what his values are, and if you don't, it is a discussion that is way overdue.

 

Two: You cannot mandate having a joint account if you are the person earning less. That is not fair. Suggestions of a joint account should come from him because let's face it, it's HIS money you will be spending, this is where "what's yours is mine" has its limits. A person who brings less to the table ALWAYS has to be cognizant of how he/she consumes the other party's resources. This is just basic courtesy one would extend to a husband/wife/mother,child, etc. NOBODY likes to feel taken advantage of.

 

Three: This is the time that you should perhaps be looking for a roommate or move back in with family. This is the time that you should be striving to stand on your own and make sure you can take care of yourself. Try to find a part time job, even minimum wage just to bring in a few dollars. While having spousal or family support is nice, nothing trumps being able to stand on your own two feet, even if you will have to make do with less than you are use to. Because support (family,spouse, what have you) is susceptible to disappointment and you don't want to put all your eggs in that basket. Now is the time to be spending within your means, meaning if you don't have enough money to get a haircut, then don't get one. If you don't have enough money for a steak dinner, then order a sandwich, even if he is the one paying for it. You have to stretch your budget and make adjustments/cutbacks where you can to make sure you have enough money to take care of yourself. Never underestimate the beauty and freedom of independence, please.

 

As an adult, you are ultimately responsible for yourself. All you can do is ask for help when you need it. But don't ever assume that a relationship or even marriage means you get to live on your partner's dime. From what you've written, it seems he is supporting you though just not as much as you want him to.

 

You both have different values/opinions on this topic and perhaps many others. You should both sit down to discuss that and know where you each stand.

 

I guess "what is mine is yours" really only applies when you are the one sharing the bounty.

[curiousnycgirl]

I do want a family - and we have talked about it. And I am sure that he would support us as a family.

 

What makes you so certain? Perhaps he'll support the children, but not you. Or perhaps he'll support "his half" of the children.

 

 

My issue, I suppose is that to 'qualify' for that support I have to first have a child. If just me: not his responsibility. Independence is all well and good, but savings won't last long, and then what, if I still don't have work, or have something that doesn't pay very well?

 

The point here is that he needs to WANT to help you - and frankly I think it is shocking that after all this time he doesn't. Clearly your view on these things and his are vastly different - but again I truly believe he's just not that into you and you need to move on.

 

Do couples - married or not - expect to support each other through hard times (or hard times for one of them) beyond providing a roof over the other's head? If, through choice or circumstance - even for a short time - one partner is taking care of the home etc, should they not be treated as the homemaker (whilst also job-hunting) and supported financially while doing that? Harks back to traditional roles I know (though I would happily take on the breadwinner role if need be), but I am pretty sure that even before I came along my mother was supported by my dad if she wasn't working.

 

Can there actually be criteria for whether you get financial support from a partner?

 

There is definitley a distinction between married or not in this situation. If married there is a legal obligation, if not, well then not I am afraid.

 

Generally speaking when one loves another, they want to do everything in their power to make sure they are safe and secure. Sometimes that is emotional, sometimes it is financial or whatever. This is regardless of gender and traditional roles. If you love someone, you want to be there for them - full stop.

 

This man does not have those feelings to you. I am so sorry you are discovering this during such a time of need in your life. Something tells me you've known it all along.

[Heroic]

Sorry to tell you this he is looking for Ms. Right, you happen to be "Ms. Willing to put up with his Crap".