Your Views on Religion?

October 16, 2003

I am a trained scientist and engineer, and fully rational. However, my education never taught me that the supernatural could not exist - rather, it teaches me to explain the natural world by natural means, and leaves open the possibility of reality beyond what we can possibly perceive. In fact, the more advanced physics I learned, particularly quantum mechanics, the more I realized that human perception of the natural world is necessarily flawed - not just now, for trivial or technical reasons, but fundamentally, inherently and for all time.

agreed. but how are you making the leap from uncertainty to god?

October 16, 2003

ArdeaCandidissima,

Thanks, same to you

I would like to apologize for my behavior in this thread,the last times I posted,I let ignorance get the best of me.

October 16, 2003

leaves open the possibility of reality beyond what we can possibly perceive. In fact, the more advanced physics I learned, particularly quantum mechanics, the more I realized that human perception of the natural world is necessarily flawed - not just now, for trivial or technical reasons, but fundamentally, inherently and for all time

I absolutely, totally, unequivocally agree. The more one learns, the more one (one hopes) understands how little we actually know and how vast the possibilities are among the unknown (and possibly unknowable). I think that people who conclude that man has amassed enough knowledge to make a definiteve statement that God does not/cannot exist are still filled with the hubris of all young scholars. Once you know a little, you think you know everything. When you know a lot, you realize that you know almost nothing.

October 16, 2003

Boy howdy! Did I ever miss a thread!

My views on religion, well, I could write a book.... oh, wait -- that's been done!

I was raised to believe in a Christian God. The phrase "put the fear of God in you" was one I hear A LOT! I worshipped the way I was taught because of that FEAR! As I got older I was told to LOVE God before any other - including spouse, children, parents, etc. The love for God was to be the top of my life and that love was to be so pure and that there would be lots of room to love others. I never achieved that -- too full of fear I guess! When I asked how I was supposed to love God when I was also terrified of him I got all sorts of confusing and conflicting answers. That, and the behavior of some self-claimed-so-called Christians, drove me away and brought up more questions than anyone could answer and I began getting "You just have to have faith" as a response. Blind Faith.

I'm not one for blind faith. I like to be in control of my own destiny and meandering through life with a drooling grin on my face, happily ignorant of where my next meal is coming from just is not for me. At least, not the way I've had Christianity presented to me. My mother's other daughter claims to be DEVOUT - as though that word had some power over me. She used that word like a weapon and like a shield and didn't care who she sliced along the way. She was DEVOUT and had BLIND FAITH and to her that meant that she expected to be provided for. She thought it gave her the right to take what she wanted from those who worked hard for it and did not offer it to her. Her prayers were answered that a family memeber worked to earn and achieve something that she felt she should have with no effort. I won't go into more detail than that - but stealing in the name of her God because she was DEVOUT and prayed and worshipped in a certain way led me to ask many more questions.

I finally came to my own conclusion that the Bible was written by men and no matter if they were interpreting a God - the writings are filtered through their own belifs and interpretations of events of that time. The Bible is a metaphore.

That doesn't mean that its not based on fact, and there may be a God or many Gods. I don't know, but I highly doubt it. A God that is worshipped and loved would not treat his/her deciples the way I've seen them do - that would be a spiteful God, and a viscous God. Who would want to worship that? (okay, I know there are some that would - hence Satan worshippers, etc.)

I trust more evidence proving that there is not a God than I see evidence that there is a God. Of course, that comes back to FAITH. I trust things I can understand and experience. (I don't understand how 1's and 0's can make up a computers data - but I can see it so I trust that it is real). I can see a tree and know it's reproduction method, but I lack the faith to see a tree and think "God made that". Partly I think that God was an invention of mankind to explain the unexplainable. As a species I think part of our evolution into thought and communication was the instinctive need to preserve our awarness after death and God stemmed from that need.

There may be some kind of energy signal left behind when our bodies die and it may be felt or intuited by the living and that may be where ghosts come from.

I don't know - I may be wrong about everything and when I die an angle in burnt rags with fire shooting out its butt may greet me at the gates of Hell and my mothers other daughter may be sitting on a cloud above me shaking her finger and hollering down to me "I told you so." I'll give her both fingers then, walk thru the gate to find all my friends and a large part of my family waiting for me, and hope the devil has a sense of humor!

October 16, 2003

actually, it's considered an error in logic to state definitively that god (or X) does not exist - specifically the 'from ignorance' fallacy, the one both moi and andrea noted. it is also an error to state postivitely that Santa does not exist, for example. it is also an error to state that it/they/He *do/es* exist; unless one can prove it using acceptable methods of evidence. and, as ryan stated it: the burden of proof is on the assertion.

so, we can be certain of uncertainty but any other claims are only speculative at best.

o! and reading Hokey's last post - this is probably the point where faith enters and my understanding of the subject exits

cheers, j

October 17, 2003

when I die an angle in burnt rags with fire shooting out its butt

Would that be a right angle?

Sorry - just could NOT resist

October 17, 2003

The way I see it, for some of us, spirituality is considered a religion,

and for some it is not. For some spiritualists, we still see them dealing

with their spiritual belief and see them stuck between two worlds. One

world is the "new belief system" based on our personal growth, soul

growth and our evolution, and their second world is also attached to

one, or some part of, religion that makes it a hard time to let go

regardless of the reason, but still wants to move beyond that belief

system. That will create a conflict that when we decide we want to

grow sometimes we are not allowed to bring the old system with us.

That will slow us down. Think about it!!!

If said it once I wiil say it again It take Courage!

October 17, 2003