A Question for the Christians

[Ocean-Blue]

I've been wondering what it means when you say that Jesus died for us, for our sins.

 

What does this mean? If he were put on Earth by God, to wash away our sins, why is there still talk of a hell? According to the Bible, he was sacrificed by God, for the sins of Adam and Eve. So does this mean that Jesus' "death" wiped away original sin, all sin, or is it neither?

 

I'm curious to see what you all think.

[NoIDidn't]

There are some that say that Jesus' death and resurrection won eternal life and salvation for all, whether they believe in him or not.

 

There are some that go further into the Bible were Jesus himself still says that "[He] is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father (gets to Heaven) but by [Him]".

 

My take, he didn't wipe out the original sin, he just made it so that we could bridge the gap between us and God. Sin is still here. People still lie, cheat, and steal. So, obviously he didn't abolish or get rid of sin.

[Ocean-Blue]

So, he died in vain? This is what I don't get. What was the purpose of his death? What exactly was the sacrifice for? What kind of gap existed before that was bridged?

 

Also, original sin exists for most Christians, doesn't it? Is this is why babies are baptized/christened?

[I'm Joe]

He Crucifixtion and death paid the penalty for sin. The penalty that you would otherwise pay yourself by going to hell.

 

It would be as if you were in court and owed a fine you couldn't pay, when right before you are hauled off to jail someone offers to pay it for you.

 

There is a verse ill have to paraphrase in the old testament but it goes something like this..."I am a Just God, slow to anger and wrath but I will not leave sin unpunished."

 

I think Its made pretty clear throughout the new testament, That forgiveness is for those who repent and trust.

[Ocean-Blue]

He Crucifixtion and death paid the penalty for sin. The penalty that you would otherwise pay yourself by going to hell.

 

It would be as if you were in court and owed a fine you couldn't pay, when right before you are hauled off to jail someone offers to pay it for you.

 

Then, if our fines have been paid, why do babies get baptized? Why is there talk of original sin?

[NoIDidn't]

He Crucifixtion and death paid the penalty for sin. The penalty that you would otherwise pay yourself by going to hell.

 

It would be as if you were in court and owed a fine you couldn't pay, when right before you are hauled off to jail someone offers to pay it for you.

 

Great point. He paid the price for sin, not abolished it.

 

Then, if our fines have been paid, why do babies get baptized? Why is there talk of original sin?

 

This will get a chuckle out of you: because (some think) the Bible says to do so.

 

I think you were the one that brought up original sin, so I can't help you with that.

[quankanne]

great topic/post, OB (I like your avvy, also), I think NID gave a great response.

 

• Jesus died for our sins – the traffic ticket analogy nicely explained how someone stepped in on our behalf. In Jesus' case, it was a spiritual salvation, allowing mankind to live in eternity with the Father in heaven. The great part about it, is that the offer stands for all eternity, for everyone, all one must do is embrace him "as the Way, the Truth and the Light" as NID points out. And it's not as easy as it sounds because while we have that divine spark that God created in us, we're still pulled by our desires, we still are susceptible to sin. Face, sin is much, much more fun than piety, even though we know a pious life is in our best interest. Good news is, God is a forgiving God, who welcomes us with open arms.

 

his death doesn't "wipe away" orginal sin, because our acceptance of him, of God, must be voluntary. Jesus' role is that of showing us the way to God, that it *is* possible to merit the Kingdom of Heaven though we are sinners.

 

So, he died in vain? This is what I don't get. What was the purpose of his death? What exactly was the sacrifice for? What kind of gap existed before that was bridged?

 

I personally don't think it's in vain, even though there are probably more non-believers and "other" believers than there are Christians. It's the hope of knowing that God loves us and forgives us and embraces us that keeps Jesus' sacrifice from being an act of vanity. I guess you'd call it a leap of hope on God's end, Jesus becoming man and then offering himself as a spiritual sacrifice so that we could have our ever-after with the Big Guy.

 

Also, original sin exists for most Christians, doesn't it? Is this is why babies are baptized/christened?

 

can't answer for other Christians, as I'm a cradle Catholic, but we believe in infant baptism on several different levels: To wipe away the stain of original sin, to welcome our littlest members into the Body of Christ, and it "conveys the grace it symbolizes" (which is the definition of a sacrament). In fact, for Catholics, baptism is the primary of sacraments, which, again, brings people more fully into the Body of Christ as members.

 

"christening," I believe is a Protestant term, in which the child is welcomed into the fold, but there is no sacrament present.

[D-Lish]

This is why Christianity spread like wildfire after Paul took the word of his Inspirational Jesus and began to spread his rendition of "the word".

 

Yes, we know a lot of things from Matt, Mark, Luke and John.... But PAUL was the big marketer of Christianity- he was the one that spread the word and expanded the religion. Paul was a one man marketing firm that deserves more credit than anyone else for bringing this entire religion to fruition (including pulling together the stories of the apostles). Without Paul and his testimony- Jesus was an afterthought... there would be no adendum to the old testament. It may have ended up as a historical document- but not as the new testament without Paul's deeds and influence.

 

The Emperor Constantine was a murderous, horrible Tyrant.... but he "accepted Jesus" into his heart on his deathbed- and according to doctrine- he is absolved. Why? Because Jesus had both suffered and died for "our" sins. This means "always" by the way. You can be Christian/non Christian.... Awesome, evil, present , past - doesn't matter. IF YOU ACCEPT THIS PART OF THE DOCTRINE, you can accept Jesus into your heart on your deathbed (or at any time) after living a life of corruption and be absolved. That's how it works.

 

Sound complicated? It is. And it is full of contradictions, like most religions. You're always encouraged to live a sin-free life.... but you can do really bad things and turn to Jesus for a pardon. No wonder such a doctrine spread.

 

There is still the Apocolypse to deal with. Further judgement will come at such a time. That's a whole different chapter.

 

You can accept jesus into your life- but perhaps be denied at the gates of heaven.... there is some controversy there.

 

Basically- what made Christianity so appealing was/is that you could/can be absolved of all of your worldly sins simply by acknowledging and accepting Jesus into your heart. It reserves you a place in heaven. That's what most of us would call a pretty sweet deal.

 

The basic foundation of all religions is that the god or gods in question are omnipotent..... but any gods, all gods/goddesses in the history of humanity emanate human characteristics. God's are a derivative of humankind, culture, temperment, etc. WHY? Humans write and record history- it makes sense that we come up with supernatural creatures that share human characteristics.

 

Just think about this. Jesus NEVER wrote anything down. It's like Socrates. He never wrote anything down. We know about Socrates via Plato and what he chose to write.

[LovieDove24]

D-Lish I applaud your journalistic standpoint on the matter, that is hard to do. You explained the topic and nothing more...not once did I get the impression as to whether you were a believer or a non-believer. I think discussing things this way is helpful on these forums.

[quankanne]

That's what most of us would call a pretty sweet deal.

 

"I call that a bargain, the best I ever had ..." – the who