trying to resolve porn issue

[Mary3]

Most all ultimatums work, if you follow through with them of course. If you spout them off left and right only to not follow through, then yes they will not take you seriously, laugh you off and continue on.

 

Well Jack if I took something away from you that you really loved because I didn't like it for ( insert reasons here ) and you gave that certain thing up would you not be angry to some degree that it was not a choice you made of your own free will without a threat or punishment attached to it ?

 

Since we are in the marriage forum , my friend told her bf of 3 years ( he did not want to get married ) that they WILL get married because its what SHE wanted. Now how long do you think that marriage might last if he didn't want to get married ? Seriously ?

[Mary3]

Well Mary, one of the nice things about growing older is that over time you simply don't give a damn, if any man has to sit around drooling at porn for an hour to get enough of an erection to be with me, I'm not interested and if he takes offense to my refusal to be used as a human fleshlight he's more than welcome to go out and get with any lil'l honey that he thinks will bed him.That option is a LOT more honest imho than the current status quo of massive porn watching,ogling other women openly and acting like he deserves some sort of award for remaining faithful in body only. You want other women? please,feel free to go get em,with my blessings.

 

Now, my man can have his porn and he can have other women too... coming to me only when he sexually desires me. It doesn't get much better than that and that's the best "compromise" I can think of.

 

Soserious alot of your posts are very sad but the SADDEST thing is your husband and his terrible treatment of you. I feel bad for YOU not for him. I ask you -- can you leave this man and find someone who LOVES you and gets excited by your mere presence ?

[mental_traveller]

 

Honestly men here, can a man view porn, masturbate to it, and still remain physically faithful to his wife? Please answer this as honestly as you can.

Also, how can I fix my situation without making it worse? Just tell him that I accept porn, of course I would like to look at porn featurning perfect men, and let him see it, and hopefully feel the sting of comparison a little, think that when we are out together in public that I am undressing all the men I see...Oh I know I am just insecure and immature..

 

Yes, guys can look at porn, jerk off to it, and never cheat. You can fix the situation by ceasing to care about porn, or breaking up with him.

 

Personally none of my ex-gfs have ever cared if I look at porn, I also would not care a jot if they looked at porn or other guys either, as long as they aren't doing anything with a real person behind my back.

[mental_traveller]

 

How would you feel if you were a guy who didn't go to strip clubs or rent porn videos, but your wife did? THIS is what these women are dealing with.

 

I'd be fine with my gf/wife renting porn vids, if it turned her on.

 

If the woman is a prude and the guy is more open, then it's a bad sexual match and they should break up instead of constantly whining on forums like this.

[CaliforniaGirl]

But I think this is what these women are upset about, Woggle.

 

If they, as women, are right there, living in the same house as these men, why do these men need ANOTHER woman (picture of one) to get their rocks off? Why not get their rocks off with the real live woman standing in front of them?

 

They feel as if their men are choosing to have sex with a porn video rather than with them. Makes them feel like they aren't good enough...or come in "second" to the porn star.

 

They would rather their men only want them when it comes to sexual activity...not them, the girl they jerked off to in the porn video, AND the girl that (ETA: Oops, cut this quote off, but you get the gist)

 

Exactly. Ten points go to Taylor!

 

And here's another interesting observation. A majority of men and many women here are saying porn is okey-dokey and doesn't impact a relationship.

 

Yet, a majority of us here have big problems with our relationships.

 

So, not for nothing, but saying this pool here represents the larger whole, and that "most" men are like this, etc., and that "most" women will have to resign ourselves to a porn-overshadowed relationship, may be pretty inaccurate. Those of us answering here have issues or have had them on the whole (there must be one or two married-for-30-years-and-thrilled people hanging about here, I suppose).

 

So to believe we have to accept this from any man may be inaccurate. Some men here have lost their mates. Some can't find a mate. Yet others cheated on a mate. Not EVERY single guy, I'm sure. But enough that we should really be taking their "this is how ALL men are" assertions with a grain of salt. It's actually a relief to realize this so I hope someone else gets it too. (And in fact, it's quite possible that some of the guys here who can't "let their point go" are just as threatened...because perhaps they do realize that there are in fact men out there, and plenty of them, who don't "have to" use porn regularly...keeping us in our place of fear that this is the "best we can get" may be one way to earn dates, but guys, it's no way to keep them...)

 

To say instead that we may have to accept this from men who have huge problems with relationships may be more accurate.

 

So, this may not be as devastating a loss as some of us may think.

 

That may sound offensive to some, but come on...face facts.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Oh, God, the more I read all this "just let him do his own thing quietly, dear...he's married to YOU, so just don't ask any questions" stuff reminds me of overhearing my aunts talking about how my grandmother was patted on the head by her doctor and told to just let my grandfather have his affairs because he's not with THEM, he's with HER...so that proves it all.

 

And ALL the "backup" is the same. This is what authority figures used to say about actively cheating. This is what men and women are now trying to convince a majority of women (and I'm sorry, it is a majority--even in randy Australia, apparently) about porn:

 

* Men can't help it. It's in their bones to do it.

* A few women like it, too. That proves that it's normal and natural. YOU must be abnormal and unnatural.

* It's probably because you're not exciting enough; he just needs, you know, more.

* All relationships get stale. Of course he needs to start broadening the field a little. It's natural.

* You can only be hurt by it if you let yourself be hurt by it!

* If you compare yourself to those other women, you're just insecure. And you're deliberately creating a problem that other couples have no problem at all living with.

* You should have known before you married him that he would do this! So it's your issue, your problem and your fault.

 

Eew, I'm getting the creepy-crawlies over here. Seriously, the whole thing is the same "force a wife or SO to let her husband or SO do whatever he wants" tired old list that it's been for...40 years. 400 years. Longer, probably.

 

Sigh. We've come a long way, baby.

 

All I can say is...thank God there are JackJacks in the world.

[soserious1]

Soserious alot of your posts are very sad but the SADDEST thing is your husband and his terrible treatment of you. I feel bad for YOU not for him. I ask you -- can you leave this man and find someone who LOVES you and gets excited by your mere presence ?

 

l

 

Here's the thing, NOBODY gets excited by the mere presence of a woman they've boned hundreds of times.. once the newness wears off it's back to viewing tons of porn and lusting over other women and feeling envious of guys who are porking hotter women.

 

 

I don't believe in monogamy anymore, I think the concept is too far away from our essential nature and causes too many conflicts.. we argue about porn as a smoke screen when the real problem is monogamy itself.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Soserious alot of your posts are very sad but the SADDEST thing is your husband and his terrible treatment of you. I feel bad for YOU not for him. I ask you -- can you leave this man and find someone who LOVES you and gets excited by your mere presence ?

 

I hope she can!

 

I hope I can too.

 

Soserious, one of these days when I'm free, I'm gonna look you up. And we're going to find that great man...OR go home to our cats and hot cocoa and Sex and the City. Whichever! Meet ya there! Because honestly, it's better to be alone...than to be miserable every day.

[soserious1]

I hope she can!

 

I hope I can too.

 

Soserious, one of these days when I'm free, I'm gonna look you up. And we're going to find that great man...OR go home to our cats and hot cocoa and Sex and the City. Whichever! Meet ya there! Because honestly, it's better to be alone...than to be miserable every day.

 

I don't think relationships in general are "miserable" I do think though that as our life span increases that those long term marriages of high school sweethearts who celebrate their 50th anniversary are going to be rarer and rarer.We are at best, serial monogamists, we see each other,get attracted, stay together for a few years and then move onto another partner.

 

This porn business, what it is actually is a crutch to prop up the concept of monogamy.. back in the good old days women frequently died in childbirth or within a couple years after menopause, men died a lot earlier as well.. "forsaking all others till death do us part" wasn't a vow that was expected to span 60-70 yrs like it is today due to increased life expectancy.

 

I have a problem with a system that basically says that one is making a sacrifice by looking at,

watching and lusting after droves of other people in their mind but remaining faithful in body.

In the end, to me anyway, the body means nothing, it's just a car for the soul. If we're not wired to remain physically faithful I favor some sort of arrangement that allows for that,it's more honest and might actually lead to more closeness, a tighter melding of 2 people's minds.

[JackJack]

Well Jack if I took something away from you that you really loved because I didn't like it for ( insert reasons here ) and you gave that certain thing up would you not be angry to some degree that it was not a choice you made of your own free will without a threat or punishment attached to it ?

 

Since we are in the marriage forum , my friend told her bf of 3 years ( he did not want to get married ) that they WILL get married because its what SHE wanted. Now how long do you think that marriage might last if he didn't want to get married ? Seriously ?

 

First off, I wouldn't be with someone who wouldn't at least TRY to find some kind of common ground/compromise...if that was simply NOT going to happen, then I would proceed with what would need to be done or what I feel is the best thing.

 

Giving up something on ones own free will because they want to for themselves and possibly to salvage a broken marriage is one thing, and pretty respectable IMO, but having someone "take something away from you", is another. Of course its all in how one would look at it too...For example, you might look at it as taking something away from that person..I might look at it as giving uip something my partner finds disrespectful, and would want to because my marriage is far more important than something on a screen etc...If that person is going to harbor resentment because of it, then thats for their own fault...no one can take anything away from you that you want allow...plus some peoples indulgements are far more important to them than saving their marriage anyway....

[taylor]

I’m sorry but it is pretending. Compromise isn’t that one person gets to live out every little need they have on their own and their partner being the one to have to make all the concessions knowing it’s going on. That is not compromise.

 

Jersey Shortie,

 

Believe it or not, I am on your side. I am not a fan of porn and I thank God my husband isn't either. That's all I am trying to do here is think objectively of ways for couples with this issue to compromise on it. You have rejected all of my suggestions. I hope some other posters with more insight can think of a suggestion that will work for you.

 

I truly believe the only suggestion that will work for you is one in which the man stops viewing porn altogether...but that really isn't a compromise, is it? Of course it's the perfect solution for the woman, but it isn't a compromise.

 

Some posters complained they don't like the porn "in their face." They don't want to see it, be reminded of it, be asked to watch it or be expected to "perform" it. That is why I suggested the man put limitations on his porn - confine it to one room away from wife and children. This is a compromise. Another limitation is for the man to not discuss it around the wife or children..again, another compromise. Another limitiation is that the man forego any and all expectation that his wife will watch or perform. This limits his activity to watching the porn by himself and performing whatever he wants on himself, minus his wife...again limiting the role porn plays in his sex life with his wife.

 

I also suggested an opposing strategy...the "if you can't beat it, join it" attitude as a way to stop the polarization between the couple. The point here was not to try to convince the woman she SHOULD enjoy porn. The point was that if the woman continues to rebel against porn, the man will naturally try to hold on to it even tighter, making the issue escalate more and more.

 

I guess if there is no way to compromise, the only solution is to leave the man and find another who does not indulge in porn.

 

What kind of compromise, if any, do you think a man and woman should make in a situation where the man values and enjoys porn and the woman doesn't. What are your suggestions?

 

 

He is getting all his needs met but she is still left with a partner that is seeking out gratification from other women

 

No, he isn't getting all of his needs met from a porn video. And no, he isn't seeking gratification from other women (that would be an affair). He is seeking gratification from a porn video or magazine. The women is on paper...The woman is a digital image. She can't see him, touch him, feel him, smell him, hear him. And he can't reciprocate. She isn't real. YOU ARE.

 

Frankly, there is not one thing in that situation described that makes the man compromise on. But please, if you feel there is, I would like to see what your answer to that would be. I certainly see what the woman is compromising on. I fail to see what concession the man is making in favor of his partner.

 

I think I answered this above. The man is compromising by keeping it "out of your face" and not expecting you to participate in his disgusting pleasure by making you watch it or perform it. He also compromises by limiting the amount of time he spends watching it and having set times of day (downtime) he can view.

 

But this is not a compromise that would satisfy you. The only compromise that would satisfy you would be one in which he stopped viewing porn altogether...but then that's not a compromise, is it?

 

 

 

Whaattt? When did I say anything about sex not being consensual? How does this address the issues I brought up? I think you’re very naive to think that their porn lives have 100% no barring on other aspects of themselves, their sexuality and what they bring into the bedroom.

 

My comment was in reference to some posters complaining that these men want or expect their SOs to perform what they see in the porn videos. My answer was, "Don't do anything you don't want to do. You don't have to perform anything in a sex video. You tell him no. Sex is consensual."

 

If you aren’t watching porn how do you know what he is bring to the bedroom isn’t something he saw in a porno and wanted to try? Is that keeping fantasy and reality “separate”? You honestly think men keep fantasy so separate that they don’t want to do the things they see in porn, that they don’t want to do the people they see in porn? How do you know he isn’t picturing the busty 18 year old he just drooled all over himself to masturbate to while he is “making love” to you? Is that compromise and respect with his partner? I think not.

 

How do you know what he wants to perform in the bedroom isn't something his buddy told him about...or something he read on the front of a Cosmo magazine...or something he heard on TV on Dr. Phil or Oprah...or something he read in a lovemaking manual he found in the library. So, the rule of thumb is don't do anything you don't want to do, regardless of where the thought came from.

 

If he wanted you to sprinkle chocolate syrup all over yourself so he could lick it off, would you stop and wonder, "Now where did he get that idea from? If he got it from a porn video, I'm not doing it. If he got it from Oprah, I might consider it?" You do it ONLY if you want to do it, regardless of where the idea came from. That way you don't harbor any resentment.

 

 

 

I am sick of all the crap men expect us to tolerate and be okay with in the name of their sexuality

 

You don't have to tolerate or respect anything when it comes to a man's sexuality. Find a man that values what you value sexually and who rejects what you reject sexually, and you will both be OK.

 

 

 

His mind drifts to some chick he saw on the street or in porn, he is being demeaning towards the sexual experience with me.

 

Again, are you trying to hold him accountable for his thoughts...chastise him for what he is thinking...make him feel guilty because his thoughts are not 100 percent on you?

 

But how dare you tell me not to or that I am wrong for thinking that. Romance novels don’t get me excited and I don’t think about other men when I am with my partner. Because it’s about me and him. Actually, your the only woman I know of that gets excited at romance novels.

 

You have every right to feel any way you want to feel. Feelings aren't right or wrong. They just are.

 

Never said I got excited about romance novels. What I said is a scene or two from a romance movie has crossed my mind during lovemaking...how a couple locks fingers together or how one traces the other ones body with the gentle touch of a finger. Sometimes I incorporate these "romantic" gestures into our lovemaking. The movie doesn't turn me on, but sometimes they give me some good ideas.

 

 

 

But that's the whole point isn't it. A lot of women aren’t happy or satisfied. Are you going to tell those women they are silly but in the same breath defend’s men desire to view porn?

 

I would never tell a woman she was being silly. That's your word. Not mine. I am not defending a man's DESIRE to view porn. I am defending a man's RIGHT to view porn.

 

You have every right not to view it. He has every right to view it. If you want a man that doesn't like porn, then you will have to find another man. If he doesn't like a woman trying to take away his right to view porn, then he will have to find another woman who doesn't mind porn. Otherwise, it's a matter of compromise.

 

often is about their emotional un-satisfaction he is failing to provide.

 

Then the couple should sit down and address the specific emotional needs that aren't being met...needs for affection, conversation, companionship, etc., rather than focusing on porn. Obviously there are other needs not being met in the relationship.

 

Does a woman’s un-satisfaction with the emotional part of the relationship have to come at the price of his desire to seek out other more titillating pictures of women? Is his need of a greater importance sexually then her’s emotionally? If a woman is doing her part to have sex with him, and he is still gorging himself on porn, what’s the point anymore to do anything at all for him sexually?

 

I guess if a man is choosing porn over his wife's happiness and emotional health, he really doesn't love her enough. Truly, I wouldn't stay with a man who couldn't meet my emotional needs to the extent you are suggesting.

 

 

I see it that way because that’s my thought belief. And a very natural one. We shun women for their very natural feelings about porn but we encourage men to indulge theirs.

 

Who's "WE"? I think men encourage women to shed their inhibitions and indulge in their sexual fantasies while women try to squelch men's sexual desires and fantasies.

 

 

Oh and when do men stop identifying with porn? Because this is exactly what it’s about. Men identify with porn. More so then women. Men identify with it hugly.

 

Of course men identify with porn. It's designed for that purpose.

 

 

 

 

I think it’s actually how much effort men put into defending porn that has their priorities mixed up.

 

They wouldn't be defending it if no one was resisting it. They would simply be free to enjoy it.

 

 

 

 

Sexual satisfaction is just as important as emotional.

 

I agree, but I've read these forums long enough to see that men complain most about sexual satisfaction and women complain most about emotional satisfaction.

 

I wouldn’t keep doing something that made him unhappy.

 

And you don't have to stay with a man who continues to make you unhappy. You have a choice.

 

Men say porn isn’t important yet defend it at the cost of their SO.

 

It truly isn't the porn itself they are defending. What they are defending is their RIGHT as a grown man to watch and read what they have the civil liberty to do according to the Constitution of the United States. What they are rebelling against is a woman's attempt to control them by taking away something they enjoy and that they have a right to enjoy.

 

If a woman is meeting a man’s sexual needs why does he need the porn?

 

You will have to ask a man.

 

If I had to guess, I would say porn is not something he "needs." It is just one of the many things he enjoys. He enjoys steak, beer, sports, porn, and his wife.

 

He's like the fat kid with the cheesecake and it's unattractive.

 

If he's that unattractive, find a skinny kid with a granola bar.

 

 

 

No, the desire for sex alone doesn’t’ tell me I’m attractive or desirable. He is telling me he is horny.

 

This is a very negative way of looking at it. When my husband is lusting after me it makes me feel wanted...desireable and beautiful.

 

 

If I am providing his sexual needs, then what’s the point of porn?

 

I don't know. What's the point of masturbation in a committed relationship. There is no POINT. It's just something he enjoys in addition to what he gets from you and from masturbation.

 

If I am providing his sexual needs and he is still turning to porn, then he can just have the porn.

 

You still see porn as "the competition." He doesn't see it this way. He doesn't see it as "either, or." He sees it as "and, and."

 

 

No need to try anymore.

 

I don't think a man's interest in porn has anything to do with how well his wife performs in bed. You can be THE BEST lover he has ever had and he will still want to look at porn. It truly is not a competition in his mind.

 

I think it sounds like you have a poor self image actually.

 

Actually, I don't. Not at all.

 

 

 

What a nice thank you to the years a woman dedicated her life to him.

 

I really don't think men "use" porn to convey any message to the women in their lives. I think women are looking for "hidden" meaning, trying to "decode" a man's mysterious desire to view porn.

 

I think men who have been married a long time do find ways to thank their wives for her dedication to the relationship. That's for another thread.

 

 

 

I personally ask for better of a man because I know they can give much more.

 

It's great to set your expectations high like this. If porn-compatibility is high on your priority list, then that should be what you aim for.

[pyroguy]

Ladies, Please check out A4A's thread about porn in the sexuality forum. I think you will see that this is not a woman only issue. In fact, I think she proves the point I've been making for a long time.

 

Check it out. scary for men.

[taylor]

Ladies, Please check out A4A's thread about porn in the sexuality forum. I think you will see that this is not a woman only issue. In fact, I think she proves the point I've been making for a long time.

 

Check it out. scary for men.

 

Hi Pyroguy,

 

Just read the thread in the sexuality forum. I see your point.

 

But the thing is even though there are women who enjoy porn and may get turned on by it, you won't see many men complaining about their women watching porn. Why? Because the men are watching it, too, and getting turned on.

 

Where you find the rub is where one (usually the male) enjoys porn, but his SO (usually the woman) does not.

 

I could be wrong, but I think it is rare to find a woman enjoying porn while her SO abstains.

 

That thread focuses on whether a man compares himself to male porn stars. It does not address the issue of what a man should do if his wife enjoys porn but he doesn't.

[pyroguy]

Hi Pyroguy,

 

Just read the thread in the sexuality forum. I see your point.

 

But the thing is even though there are women who enjoy porn and may get turned on by it, you won't see many men complaining about their women watching porn. Why? Because the men are watching it, too, and getting turned on.

 

Where you find the rub is where one (usually the male) enjoys porn, but his SO (usually the woman) does not.

 

I could be wrong, but I think it is rare to find a woman enjoying porn while her SO abstains.

 

 

 

Very true, but it does seem more and more to move towards this adoration of these super endowed porn stars, and men can wonder the same thing- why don't they just marry someone like that? yes, it's somewhat different, but then again, I think the husbands of those women who love it are very naive if they think the women aren't noticing the difference between them and the hubby..and wanting or desiring that. So, I think those husbands are arrogant or don't care what their wife thinks. (today's versions of secure)-probably the best way to be.

 

Anyway, I just think it points out how women may be viewing it, and how men may not compare either. Wonder if Jersey Shortie will view it.

[Mr. Lucky]

Very true, but it does seem more and more to move towards this adoration of these super endowed porn stars, and men can wonder the same thing- why don't they just marry someone like that? yes, it's somewhat different, but then again, I think the husbands of those women who love it are very naive if they think the women aren't noticing the difference between them and the hubby..and wanting or desiring that. So, I think those husbands are arrogant or don't care what their wife thinks. (today's versions of secure)-probably the best way to be.

I still don't understand your point. My wife may also wish that I was taller...or more religious...or?

 

Spouses are going to "notice" all kinds of things, and not just sex organs in an adult movie. Might be in print, might be in person. Why would your marriage be threatened by that?

 

Mr. Lucky

[soserious1]

I still don't understand your point. My wife may also wish that I was taller...or more religious...or?

 

Spouses are going to "notice" all kinds of things, and not just sex organs in an adult movie. Might be in print, might be in person. Why would your marriage be threatened by that?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

For a lot of us, the best we can do is to just give up and accept that the women in porn are physically better, more desirable than we are in every single way and that if our husbands should lower themselves enough to touch us that they do so either out of pity,duty or just because we're close by, a nice change from their hands or the old gym sock they normally jerk off into. Over time you just come to accept it,you become numb to it.

[pyroguy]

I still don't understand your point. My wife may also wish that I was taller...or more religious...or?

 

Spouses are going to "notice" all kinds of things, and not just sex organs in an adult movie. Might be in print, might be in person. Why would your marriage be threatened by that?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

The major points are 1) I can see the women's point of view. Like I said, if you think people don't desire what they see, you are very naive.

2) it is not a woman issue, it's both ways.

 

Also, I'm playing a bit of devils advocate. I don't neccessarily take it as hard as these women do, but There is something there. I've said before, I'm not an acient out of shape guy. In fact I'm the opposite, and never saw their point before the last year or two.

 

I guess I researched too much, and was jaded by a few websites-what can I say. The worst part is the realistic part, where I see plenty of women being pimped out by their husband to other men-almost always better built and better endowed than the husband. Yes, the husband is into it (not sure why), but the women are estatic that they are getting something he isn't.

 

Like I said, I don't lose sleep over it, but it's a bit disconcerting when you see it. I suspect if many or most of these so-called secure men had to watch his wife desire or worse, sleep with one of these adonis's, and note the chemistry, they would fold like a cheap camera. Likewise, if there was an attractive, but middle-aged woman who showed some battle scars had to sit and watch her husband get it on with Carmen Elektra (or insert your girl), and she was loving his attention and he hers, those women would also react negatively.

 

I know this is the extreme, and we're not usually talking about actual sex here, but trust me, today's woman wants to, more than you know-and A4A proves that point. Great for some and bothersome to others. If it doesn't bother you, rock -on. Join in and maybe even have a threesome- just make sure to tell us the story. Some are naturally bothered by it, and they are not lesser people for it.

[taylor]

why don't they just marry someone like that?

 

 

For the same reason men don't marry women like that.

 

There's more to your husband or wife than a penis, a boob, a butt or a fu-fu.

 

When you get married, you marry the whole package...mind, body and soul.

 

I still can't wrap my head around this whole comparison thing. I can't for the life of me see how the body parts of some strange porn star pictured in a magazine or a video can even begin to compare to a living, breathing, whole, live person who you love and cherish and want to spend the rest of your life with. How does that even compare in the slightest?

 

If there was a billboard with a large penis on it, would you start resenting that penis...get jealous of that penis...because you knew your wife passed that billboard every day on the way to work and looked at it?

 

People who aren't bothered by porn comparisons aren't arrogant. They just don't put alot of significance in the comparison...they know it doesn't mean anything..it's no big deal.

[taylor]

Have we resolved the porn issue yet?

[Enema]

Have we resolved the porn issue yet?

 

These threads always peter off as people realize men and women have different perspectives and a lot of the time it's impossible to comprehend each others outlook.

 

Except for Jersie. Her rants go on and on like there's an energizer up her ass.

[Jersey Shortie]

You know Enema, I don't say stuff like that to you for your opinion. That's really an ignorant statment to make of me and frankly worth of reporting to the Mods. I won't because I hate that kind of crap but the amount of little respect you just showed me is not cool. You don't have to mock me because you don't agree with me. It would be nice if you could consider my opinion without trying to demean me in the process. I get it, you like porn. Good for you. You have no clue what it's like as a woman to have to deal with this issue.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Taylor,

 

You talk about compromise. You somehow see compromise as a husband/bf keeping the porn and continuning to look at it, doing what he pleases, as long as it's not done in his partners face. I don't see the compromise in that frankly. I see the compromise for the woman, for sure. But what exactly is he compromising on? Nothing, if you ask me.

 

Maybe it isn't a compromise that he just stops looking at it altogether. But if I am making the effort to provide sex and keep it fun, can't he make an effort to give me the things I need in return? If I am providing sex, why does he need porn? Why am I putting in the effort if that's what he is going to keep turning to at the end of the day?

 

Confining porn to one room of the house isn't putting limitations on his porn use. It's putting limitations on where he uses the porn but not the porn use itself. Again, not really a compromise that is fair if you ask me. Another limitations is that a man not discuss it around his wife? (I hope to god he isn't discussing it around his children). How is that a compromise again? Is it a big effort on his part not to talk to his wife about it? I wasn't under the impression that most men wanted to be chatty cathy about it to begin with. He still gets the porn and the sex and everything between and she is the one that has to deal with the fact that he gets both.

 

Again, I think you are naive to believe that if a man is viewing porn on a consistant basis, it isn't going to affect his perception about what he wants his wife/gf to do in bed. How do you know the next time he makes a suggestion to try something new in the bedroom he didn't get the idea from porn?

 

Your opposing strategy of "if you can't beat it, join it", could easily work for men as well. "If he can't beat it, join it"..meaning he can put the porn down and join his wife/gf. This isn't a one way street where only the woman should be mandated to make scarfices for her needs while he still gets to fullfill his every which way. The tighter the man holds onot the porn, the more obvious he makes it about what is important to him. The more obvious he makse it what is important to him, he can gaurantee having a partner that doesn't feel like having sex with him less often or openning herself up to him. Why should she right? he isn't giving her the things she needs in the relationship.

 

The type of compromise that I think is more fair is that the woman be more willing to provide more sex, more new stuff, more adventure, and the man be willing to put the porn down in favor for a more active engaged partner.

 

No, he isn't getting all of his needs met from a porn video. And no, he isn't seeking gratification from other women (that would be an affair). He is seeking gratification from a porn video or magazine. The women is on paper...The woman is a digital image. She can't see him, touch him, feel him, smell him, hear him. And he can't reciprocate. She isn't real. YOU ARE.

 

What is he doing? Watching cartoon porn? The women are real last time I checked. they might be an image of a woman but that obviously doesn't make it any less real to the man that is getting turned on by what he sees. How can you ask women not to relate to it in a matter that you do not ask of men to? Just as the video is a stimulation of sex, it can be a stimulation of other factors/ Looking at porn is exactly that, seeking gratifications from other women having sex. No, it's not cheating in the orignal idea of the word.

 

 

My comment was in reference to some posters complaining that these men want or expect their SOs to perform what they see in the porn videos. My answer was, "Don't do anything you don't want to do. You don't have to perform anything in a sex video. You tell him no. Sex is consensual."

 

How do you know though? Lets say he is having his private time..sees something he really likes, knows you don't know it's there and asks you to try it with him not mentioning the factor of where he got it from? You really think men don't do that stuff? come on.

 

 

How do you know what he wants to perform in the bedroom isn't something his buddy told him about...or something he read on the front of a Cosmo magazine...or something he heard on TV on Dr. Phil or Oprah...or something he read in a lovemaking manual he found in the library. So, the rule of thumb is don't do anything you don't want to do, regardless of where the thought came from.

 

You're the one making rules about what keeps porn use seperate. Saying he isn't allowed to bring it in the bedroom. But if he does bring something in the bedroom that he saw in the porn and wants to do it with you, not so seperate anymore is it?

 

If he wanted you to sprinkle chocolate syrup all over yourself so he could lick it off, would you stop and wonder, "Now where did he get that idea from? If he got it from a porn video, I'm not doing it. If he got it from Oprah, I might consider it?" You do it ONLY if you want to do it, regardless of where the idea came from. That way you don't harbor any resentment.

 

Again, your the one that make the stipulation about keeping his porn world seperate from his real one. If he is off jacking off to porn in a closed room and then comes to you and wants you to do what he saw in the porn, you wouldn't know and it woudln't be so seperate anymore would it.

 

 

JS: His mind drifts to some chick he saw on the street or in porn, he is being demeaning towards the sexual experience with me.

 

Taylor: Again, are you trying to hold him accountable for his thoughts...chastise him for what he is thinking...make him feel guilty because his thoughts are not 100 percent on you?

 

This has nothing to do with trying to make a man feel guilty or chaste him. It has to do with respecting me in the relationship. If he is physically with me, it's fair to want him to be mentally with me and not being vicariously with me while thinking of another woman.

 

You have every right to feel any way you want to feel. Feelings aren't right or wrong. They just are.

 

 

 

Sometimes I incorporate these "romantic" gestures into our lovemaking. The movie doesn't turn me on, but sometimes they give me some good ideas.

 

So you're not acutually lusting after other men and masturbating to romance novels, but he is lusting after other women and masturbating to them.

 

 

If he doesn't like a woman trying to take away his right to view porn, then he will have to find another woman who doesn't mind porn. Otherwise, it's a matter of compromise.

 

And I can find another man that will respect me more then his porn. If I don't like having a man that has such little regard for my feelings and place in his life.

 

 

Who's "WE"? I think men encourage women to shed their inhibitions and indulge in their sexual fantasies while women try to squelch men's sexual desires and fantasies.

 

 

I 100% disagree with that. Men encourage women's sexuality to be more uniform with the male sexuality. that's not about encouraging women to truly be sexual and feminine in their own personal way. Many men would LOVE it if their wife preformed and acted more like a porn star. but again, that's not about true encouragment of sexuality and more about encouragment of women to act more like his fantasy. It's not also a matter of trying to squelch men's desires. I love how sexual men are. I just wish they used more self control then they do. If I ate cake the way men looked at porn, I would be fat.

 

 

It truly isn't the porn itself they are defending. What they are defending is their RIGHT as a grown man to watch and read what they have the civil liberty to do according to the Constitution of the United States. What they are rebelling against is a woman's attempt to control them by taking away something they enjoy and that they have a right to enjoy.

 

Perhaps it's men attempt to control women by both having porn and the woman to satisfy themselves with.

 

Anyway, I never told a man what he could or couldn't do. Some consideration for the other person while in a relationship is still in order no matter what USA Consitutional rights you want to use. Again, it's not a matter of telling a man to do this or that. perhaps this "rebelling" is more about being a little boy then adult man.

 

 

You still see porn as "the competition." He doesn't see it this way. He doesn't see it as "either, or." He sees it as "and, and."

 

Of course he doesn't. Most porn is about men, their ideals and all the young women before them to get off to. Not about how he doesn't measure up as a man and all the ways owmen wished he did. All the men are super studs and get the job done. What is there to compete with for him? Nothing. As a woman, we know how much men like a beaufiful woman and the message is our beauty isn't enough to captivate him..or it is but not when he is jerking it to the hot 18 year old. Obviously he doesn't see it as either or. That's the problem. Seeing it of "and, and" is pretty gluttoness and selfish.

 

I don't think a man's interest in porn has anything to do with how well his wife performs in bed. You can be THE BEST lover he has ever had and he will still want to look at porn. It truly is not a competition in his mind.

 

Then there is no point in trying. why bother? Why bother with the effort because either way if he is still going to view porn it doesn't matter what a woman does. If you put so much effort into it and the thanks you get is 'okay thanks sweetie..want to go see what that 20 year old is up to with the implants catch yo ulater.." there is no point.

[pyroguy]

For the same reason men don't marry women like that.

 

There's more to your husband or wife than a penis, a boob, a butt or a fu-fu.

 

When you get married, you marry the whole package...mind, body and soul.

 

I still can't wrap my head around this whole comparison thing. I can't for the life of me see how the body parts of some strange porn star pictured in a magazine or a video can even begin to compare to a living, breathing, whole, live person who you love and cherish and want to spend the rest of your life with. How does that even compare in the slightest?

 

If there was a billboard with a large penis on it, would you start resenting that penis...get jealous of that penis...because you knew your wife passed that billboard every day on the way to work and looked at it?

 

People who aren't bothered by porn comparisons aren't arrogant. They just don't put alot of significance in the comparison...they know it doesn't mean anything..it's no big deal.

 

 

First, what is a FU-FU?

 

Well, the truth is I never gave it much mind either-until a couple of years ago. that's when I started seeing all the things I have mentioned. I knew women had a sex drive, but even I was a bit schocked.

 

Think about all the other real-life things that are happening at the same time. All the cheating, the un-happy women, and divorce. I've heard stories of housewives banging contractors, or trademen that come to the house, and I've known of one or two myself. You can also google info of wives or girlfriends having sex with their SO's best friend-and vice versa. So, now, you can't even bring a goodlooking friend around without your SO lusting. Is everything tempting these days?

 

I'll admit it because that's what we do here, isn't it? admit things, share and seek answers? Again, I don't lose sleep over it, but yes, it bothers me sometimes, and I think that's why porn does bother these women the way it does. Hey, I like some porn too, and let's be honest, the idea that all these women are just terrible looking and undesirable just isn't true. I'm not saying what most of the men say isn't true much of the time, but sometimes Jersey Shortie's assertion is true-and that goes for women too. We just can't admit it- that's my opinion.

 

Then, some of us are shallow, to match what the rest of society is. I know that I want my wife to desire me-not to have sex out of marital obligation or even because I did cartwheels to be so romantic. I should do all those things, but I'll be goddamned if some guy on the screen who does nothing for her in life gets the optimum lust. Call me what you want, and there are definitely more important things to worry about, but I want my wife wanting me. I don't want her feeling my body and noticing much of a difference than those other men. Call it shallow, call it whatever you want, but I want it, and it's my right to desire that.

 

What does all this mean? not much really. There will always be someone better looking and better endowed, but I don't want to be so out of their class- as is often the case with so many gullable men today, and they are paying the price.

 

Also, if there was billboard of some penis, I wouldn't go run for a divorce, but I would also be realistice that YES, she may be comparing. I hear women do it all the time. I'm pretty confident there, but the point still remains.

 

I don't like Jersey Shortie's view of forcing someone to not do something. That's not a turn-on at all. The fun would be if they didn't feel the need to look at it because they feel they have all they need. What good is it if they don't partake because you made them not, as if they would get in trouble. If my wife wanted to go see male strippers, there wouldn't be a huge aftershock. I'd be a tad dissapointed, but one, it just isn't that important in the grand scheme of things, and second, the only fun would be if she didn't feel the desire to go-of her own free will.

 

So, these types of issues will continue, and that includes the porn issue because believe it or not, it's part of the way everything else is in society today as far as relationships go.

[taylor]

You somehow see compromise as a husband/bf keeping the porn and continuning to look at it, doing what he pleases, as long as it's not done in his partners face. I don't see the compromise in that frankly.

 

He shows respect by not shoving it in your face.

 

if I am making the effort to provide sex and keep it fun, can't he make an effort to give me the things I need in return?

 

Yes. What he gives you in return is sex and fun as well.

 

 

If I am providing sex, why does he need porn?

 

Because making love to you is not the same thing as jerking off to a page in a magazine.

 

Why am I putting in the effort if that's what he is going to keep turning to at the end of the day?

 

Did you ever think of it this way, Jersey Shortie...that he still turns to you at the end of the day because the porn isn't enough for him? If that's all he wanted or needed was porn, why have you in his life? Why seek sex from you if porn is the be-all to his sexual satisfaction?

 

And I repeat, a man can get the most and the best sex from his SO and STILL want to look at porn. Men who are sexually dissatisfied in the bedroom aren't the only men who look at porn.

 

Confining porn to one room of the house isn't putting limitations on his porn use. It's putting limitations on where he uses the porn but not the porn use itself. Again, not really a compromise that is fair if you ask me. Another limitations is that a man not discuss it around his wife? (I hope to god he isn't discussing it around his children). How is that a compromise again? Is it a big effort on his part not to talk to his wife about it? I wasn't under the impression that most men wanted to be chatty cathy about it to begin with. He still gets the porn and the sex and everything between and she is the one that has to deal with the fact that he gets both.

 

Some posters complained about their men throwing it in their face, talking about how stacked the porn star was or the kinky things she did in the video. I suggest the men don't express these thoughts to their wives...don't discuss what they view in the videos...so their wives don't have to listen to it. They keep their nasty little thoughts to themselves. This keeps it out of YOUR world.

 

Again, I think you are naive to believe that if a man is viewing porn on a consistant basis, it isn't going to affect his perception about what he wants his wife/gf to do in bed. How do you know the next time he makes a suggestion to try something new in the bedroom he didn't get the idea from porn?

 

I never said a man wouldn't desire to do what he saw in a porn video. What I said is YOU don't have to do what HE wants to do in the bedroom per what was in the video. YOU control what happens in the bedroom. If YOU don't want to do what's on the porn video, don't do it. This way it remains a fantasy for him and doesn't cross over into YOUR world.

 

Your opposing strategy of "if you can't beat it, join it", could easily work for men as well. "If he can't beat it, join it"..meaning he can put the porn down and join his wife/gf. This isn't a one way street where only the woman should be mandated to make scarfices for her needs while he still gets to fullfill his every which way.

 

I am not sure what need it is you are sacrificing. What need goes unfulfilled? Does he still have regular sex with you? Is it good? Does he ever show you affection..kisses and hugs? Does he talk to you? Do you do things together? Does he provide/contribute to the household?

 

Is The tighter the man holds onot the porn, the more obvious he makes it about what is important to him.

 

He only holds on to it tighter because there is a threat it will be taken away. If there was no threat, he wouldn't hold so tight.

 

He isn't giving her the things she needs in the relationship.

 

What things is he not giving her in the relationship when he spends time looking at porn videos/magazines?

 

The type of compromise that I think is more fair is that the woman be more willing to provide more sex, more new stuff, more adventure, and the man be willing to put the porn down in favor for a more active engaged partner.

 

The two don't have anything to do with each other. A woman could be giving her husband sex 23 hours a day and he will still want to watch porn in the 24th hour. There isn't ALWAYS a direct correlation between the amount of sex he gets from his wife and the amount of time he wants to spend watching porn. Granted men in sexless marriages probably turn to porn to cope, but it is a poor substitute for the real thing.

 

 

 

What is he doing? Watching cartoon porn?

 

OMG, make me laugh!

 

The point I was trying to make is nothing can compare to the real thing...YOU.

 

 

 

 

How do you know though? Lets say he is having his private time..sees something he really likes, knows you don't know it's there and asks you to try it with him not mentioning the factor of where he got it from? You really think men don't do that stuff? come on.

 

No, you don't know. But what difference does it make where he gets a sexual idea from? If you are uncomfortable with ANY sexual idea, don't do it. Isn't that what really matters...doing in the bedroom only that which you feel comfortable doing?

 

 

 

 

You're the one making rules about what keeps porn use seperate. Saying he isn't allowed to bring it in the bedroom. But if he does bring something in the bedroom that he saw in the porn and wants to do it with you, not so seperate anymore is it?

 

If he comes in the bedroom and tells you he got an idea from the porn video, and you don't like the idea, you tell him you want no part of it. That keeps it separate.

 

If he approaches you with an idea and you don't know where it came from but you think you might like it too, what difference does it make where it came from? He enjoys it. You enjoy it. It's all good. Don't ever do anything you don't want to do, regardless of whether it came from a porn video or a lovemaking manual from the neighborhood library.

 

 

 

 

If he is physically with me, it's fair to want him to be mentally with me and not being vicariously with me while thinking of another woman.

 

And how do you know he isn't thinking of just you? How do you really know? This is your insecurity talking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I can find another man that will respect me

 

And this truly is the bottom line. If your definition of respect includes elimination of all porn use for self-gratification, then you have to find a man that has no interest in porn or one who is willing to give it up to make you happy without resentment.

 

You know my mother in law does not believe in smoking, drinking, dancing, swearing, makeup, or movies with any form of violence (including Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!). So out of respect for her beliefs, no one exhibits interest in these things when they are around her. They curb their habits, control their mouths, and censor what they see and do so as not to be disrespectful to her. And when she leaves their home or they leave her home, everyone goes back to being themselves again.

 

 

that's not about encouraging women to truly be sexual and feminine

 

Oh, I think they do. Men love it when women dress in sexy lingerie, put on sensual lotions and perfumes, and indulge in their own sexual fantasies.

 

I love how sexual men are. I just wish they used more self control then they do.

 

What you really mean is you don't want them to indulge in more sexual things than you think they should. No, you really don't love how sexual men are because that's what makes them want to indulge in porn in the first place.

 

Anyway, I never told a man what he could or couldn't do.

 

Telling a man to put his porn down is telling a man what to do.

 

Some consideration for the other person while in a relationship is still in order no matter what USA Consitutional rights you want to use.

 

A man is not attempting to deny you anything or hurt you in any way by watching a porn video. But when you tell him to turn the video off or put the magazine down you are taking a basic right away from him.

 

 

Of course he doesn't. Most porn is about men, their ideals and all the young women before them to get off to. Not about how he doesn't measure up as a man and all the ways owmen wished he did. All the men are super studs and get the job done. What is there to compete with for him? Nothing. As a woman, we know how much men like a beaufiful woman and the message is our beauty isn't enough to captivate him..or it is but not when he is jerking it to the hot 18 year old. Obviously he doesn't see it as either or. That's the problem. Seeing it of "and, and" is pretty gluttoness and selfish.

 

If the men were looking at porn videos with average looking 40 year old women in them, would you be as upset?

 

It all comes down to self-image again.

 

 

 

Then there is no point in trying. why bother? Why bother with the effort because either way if he is still going to view porn it doesn't matter what a woman does. If you put so much effort into it and the thanks you get is 'okay thanks sweetie..want to go see what that 20 year old is up to with the implants catch yo ulater.." there is no point.

 

Why put the effort in? Ahhhh...because you enjoy sex too...sometimes???!!! Don't tell me all the effort is JUST for HIM. You get something out of it, too, I hope.

[Enema]

These threads always peter off as people realize men and women have different perspectives and a lot of the time it's impossible to comprehend each others outlook.

 

You know Enema, You have no clue what it's like as a woman to have to deal with this issue.

 

That's exactly what I just said Captain Obvious.....

 

....right before I said you wouldn't get it, but would launch into another rant.

 

Absolute gold!

[taylor]

The point I was trying to make with the mother-in-law story is this:

 

No one resents altering their behavior to respect my mother-in-law. Everyone does it willingly because they love her and want to show respect. But if they had to live with her for an extended period of time, I think they would grow to resent the restrictions placed on their lives in an effort to show her respect.