trying to resolve porn issue

[JackJack]

Thanks Jersey! And always, you stand your ground on what you believe as well.

 

I just try to look at things from both points of view if I can. I couldn't imagine hurting my wife over and over again with something that's just not that important. Well, not to me anyway.

 

Like I said I have seen many porn films over time, so its not like I'm totally against it or anything, but I can at least put myself in someone else's shoes for a bit to see where they may be coming from with their feelings.

 

Plus, not long ago, someone had a made a post on here in regards to their family memeber being in the porn industry and how they finally got out of it, and told the very grizzley side of it, what they endured during their time in that kind of business etc. And while that may not happen too ALL people in that industry, I would venture to say it does more so than not, people just don't normally talk about that side of it. Needless to say I was shocked at what it can truly do to people over a period of time.

[c-riouz]

JackJack, do you still remember the title of the thrad? Or the link? I'd like to read it. Thanks.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Ha ha, JackJack, I think I love you.

 

Okay, never mind, we shan't go there, there are enough problems listed on this thread already!

 

Thanks for your thought-provoking posts.

[Jersey Shortie]

I agree JackJack. That those kind of situations happen more times then I think we care to admit to ourselves. I read a book on it and the statistic in the book was that the average porn star lasts 6 months to 1 year. It starts of soft. first she might just do a tape of her masturbating, then it's lesbian porn, then it's guy on girl, then it's threesomes, then it's in the rear end, and then it's in the rear end to the mouth..and it gets further degrading and expolitive until they have used up and the directors think they are old news. It's very taxing physically and mentally. I think the perception the porn world wnats to present that it's all fun and games. But that's not the reality. Most women don't end up like Jemma Jaminson. And even Jemma Jaminson as admitted that the porn industry is not kinds towards women. I wish more men looked at it, and thought it out like you do.

[JackJack]

JackJack, do you still remember the title of the thrad? Or the link? I'd like to read it. Thanks.

 

It was someone on here..don't remember exactly but I'll see if I can go back and find it.

 

Plus you can always do google search on the effects of it as well.

[JackJack]

Ha ha, JackJack, I think I love you.

 

Okay, never mind, we shan't go there, there are enough problems listed on this thread already!

 

Thanks for your thought-provoking posts.

 

Thanks CG.

[Brulee]

okay, I have been thinking. Here is the my main emotional problems, I do not wish to be with other men - when I see a good looking man, I can honestly say that I do not lust for them - I have thought this is disrespectful to my companion, so knowing this, does it make more sense, that if I see him lusting after another woman, even it causes me pain and shame/embarassment (some kind of false pride - feeling like I am failing, not good enough, not attractive enough, ashamed that I am being somehow rejected - there is almost a physical reaction involved. It just plain feels bad/hurts) Even when it is done almost in a teasing matter. Now can you understand ,even if it is completely wrong, how his porn use or admiration of other women in public would make me feel bad. I know it is me, making me feel bad.

Can I reprogram this? What steps do you think would work for me to stop these feelings and turn them around? Maybe whenever I feel it coming on, I can quickly program myself with positive thoughts.

It is a crutch to carry around in life - even if self imposed. If I could eradicate these feelings, my life would be much happier. After all I have no control over what somebody else does. But I should have control over my reaction.

 

Also, why shouldn't I be looking at Hunksforher. Go look at the pictures, it is of good looking men, just like the females he admires - they are younger, in better shape and quite attractive. Why did he not say, yes you should enjoy these photos also, as I enjoy the photos of women, since there is nothing wrong with it, and you should not feel compared. Perhaps he felt I was trying to trap him into admitting his continuous hidden porn viewing. I told him that I want him not to hide it anymore, that it was my fault to make it so he needed to, however I should also start admiring other men just for pleasure. I think what is good for the goose in good for the gander. I think it would be easier to accept. I do not want to be the little woman, completely satisfied with just him, while he entertains all of these fantasies. Shouldn't he feel comfortable with my enjoying these entertaining fantasies also?

 

Do we live in a totally sexist society.

[soserious1]

I think in all these women posters' cases their SO's turn to porn because they already have a pre-existing sexual performance problem and they look to porn to solve it.

 

I don't think porn causes ED. I think ED problems lead these men to porn just like ED leads men to Viagra. They try to use porn to solve a medical problem they are having.

 

I think these men are exceptions to 'normal' men who use porn solely for entertainment. These 'abnormal' men are using porn to help them do what they are having trouble doing naturally and biologically on their own. It doesn't have anything to do with the women in their lives.

 

SoSerious - I think your husband blamed you for an ED problem he wasn't willing to admit. He wasn't about to blame HIMSELF for his sexual performance problems...so of course he dumped that on you. And you bought into what he was saying. He brainwashed you into believing YOUR DEFICIENCIES caused HIS DEFICIENCIES. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

That's like someone saying I rear-ended your car because you stopped. Very childish.

 

Your husband should have gone to a urologist and addressed his penis problem rather than turn to porn to try to fix it or try to put it on you.

 

Your husband had alot of disrespect for you, in more ways than one, that you didn't deserve.

 

But I wouldn't put the blame on porn. Porn is not the bad guy here. There are men and women who view porn strictly for entertainment purposes and to spice things up in the bedroom. This is not what your husband was doing. He was trying to use porn to solve a medical problem and it wasn't working so he blamed you for it. Put the blame on him, not on the porn.

 

And FWIW, I am no fan of porn.

 

My husband and I had a pretty satisfying sexual life for quite some time-- 2-3 times a week with both of us orgasming.. the ED got going as the porn use escalated. I wouldn't have knowingly married a person with these kinds of difficulties, I actually used to enjoy sex.

 

Btw, my husband did see a doctor, no problems with hormone levels, no diabetes or other medical causes for the problem.. just an aging wife who no longer physically excited him, he has no problems performing with his 33 yr old girlfriend.

[marlena]

he has no problems performing with his 33 yr old girlfriend.

 

He will. Just a matter of time. Then, she'll have a problem with him, too. Then, it's bye-bye love!! I can almost guarantee this.

[taylor]

My husband and I had a pretty satisfying sexual life for quite some time-- 2-3 times a week with both of us orgasming.. the ED got going as the porn use escalated. I wouldn't have knowingly married a person with these kinds of difficulties, I actually used to enjoy sex.

 

Btw, my husband did see a doctor, no problems with hormone levels, no diabetes or other medical causes for the problem.. just an aging wife who no longer physically excited him, he has no problems performing with his 33 yr old girlfriend.

 

Well, shoots my theory out of the water then with regard to your ex-husband.

 

Guess the only thing you can do is chalk it up to character flaw...he is a shallow, superficial person.

 

What do you think he's going to do when the girlfriend hits 40 yo...if he makes it that far....trade her in for two 20 year olds (lol)

 

SoSerious, there are many men in monogomous relationships with "aging" women. They don't look at porn. They don't cheat. And they still have sex with their wives.

 

And you can reverse that statement gender-wise as well...there are many women in monogomous relationships with "aging" men. They don't look at porn or cheat. And they still have sex with these husbands.

 

I hope one day soon you meet someone who will appreciate you inside and out. In the meantime, appreciate yourself...and stop letting that shallow scumbag of a husband of yours define your value.

 

Did you happen to see the cover of the April issue of People magazine. Valerie Bertinelli, 48 YEARS OLD IN A BIKINI, and looking hot. I don't want to hear any more about age and loss of sex appeal. No more.

 

Your ex-husband is an idiot.

[taylor]

Can I reprogram this? What steps do you think would work for me to stop these feelings and turn them around? If I could eradicate these feelings, my life would be much happier. After all I have no control over what somebody else does. But I should have control over my reaction.

 

You have no control over another person's thoughts or feelings. But you should be able to have some influence on his behavior.

 

He can't help it if he is attracted to attractive women. He's human.

 

But he can control his lustful behavior while in public so as not to embarrass you or himself.

 

By the same token, you have every right to find other men attractive. You aren't dead. You're human and you are a sexual being. If you didn't find other men attractive, you would be asexual.

 

But you also can control your reaction when you see an attractive man.

 

This is a courtesy partners extend to one another out of respect.

 

If he can't or won't control his emotions in public simply stop taking him out in public with you. If he can't behave, he doesn't go. If he's going to act like a child, you treat him as one. He can stay home with the dog.

 

Next, stop letting his thoughts and feelings influence how you feel about yourself. Just because he finds another female attractive doesn't mean you are chopped liver. You make your own self-esteem. Don't give him that power. And remember, he is with you for a reason. You are the WHOLE package, not just a pair of boobs or a butt. When he is ogling some woman that is all he sees.

 

Look at it this way, you are getting yourself all upset because you are trying to compare yourself to a butt or a boob. Isn't there MORE to you than that?

 

And if he likes the porn, let him look at it. The more you try to stop him, the more he will rebel. Forbidden fruit always tastes better. Instead, join him in his indulgence. It will take some of the fun out of it for him. Laugh and joke at the porn stars. Have a little fun with it. Don't take it seriously.

 

I know porn isn't sports BUT there are women who complain about it as much as women who complain about porn. They adopt the attitude, "If you can't beat them, join them." They don the baseball caps, cut the stats out of the paper, and cheer the team on. They invite friends over for the game and eat appetizers.

 

This takes the polarization out of it so that you aren't playing a tug-of-war with each other.

 

When he sees that you are giving in, he is more likely to give in a little too. After a while you will be able to pull him away from the porn for other couple-time activities.

 

Also, why shouldn't I be looking at Hunksforher. Go look at the pictures, it is of good looking men, just like the females he admires - they are younger, in better shape and quite attractive. Why did he not say, yes you should enjoy these photos also, as I enjoy the photos of women, since there is nothing wrong with it, and you should not feel compared. Perhaps he felt I was trying to trap him into admitting his continuous hidden porn viewing. I told him that I want him not to hide it anymore, that it was my fault to make it so he needed to, however I should also start admiring other men just for pleasure. I think what is good for the goose in good for the gander. I think it would be easier to accept. I do not want to be the little woman, completely satisfied with just him, while he entertains all of these fantasies. Shouldn't he feel comfortable with my enjoying these entertaining fantasies also?

 

Good for you, telling him he didn't need to hide the porn.

 

Now, get a little more in touch with your own sexual side. Check out those hot dudes on hunksforher. You don't have to shove it in his face. Do it casually...for your own pleasure. Keep a few magazines in the bathroom for yourself. Pin up a calendar of hot sexy firemen and keep track of your daily to do list on it. Nothing blatant.

 

Connect with your fantasies. Then you can have a little fun too.

[pyroguy]

You have no control over another person's thoughts or feelings. But you should be able to have some influence on his behavior.

 

He can't help it if he is attracted to attractive women. He's human.

 

But he can control his lustful behavior while in public so as not to embarrass you or himself.

 

By the same token, you have every right to find other men attractive. You aren't dead. You're human and you are a sexual being. If you didn't find other men attractive, you would be asexual.

 

But you also can control your reaction when you see an attractive man.

 

This is a courtesy partners extend to one another out of respect.

 

If he can't or won't control his emotions in public simply stop taking him out in public with you. If he can't behave, he doesn't go. If he's going to act like a child, you treat him as one. He can stay home with the dog.

 

Next, stop letting his thoughts and feelings influence how you feel about yourself. Just because he finds another female attractive doesn't mean you are chopped liver. You make your own self-esteem. Don't give him that power. And remember, he is with you for a reason. You are the WHOLE package, not just a pair of boobs or a butt. When he is ogling some woman that is all he sees.

 

Look at it this way, you are getting yourself all upset because you are trying to compare yourself to a butt or a boob. Isn't there MORE to you than that?

 

And if he likes the porn, let him look at it. The more you try to stop him, the more he will rebel. Forbidden fruit always tastes better. Instead, join him in his indulgence. It will take some of the fun out of it for him. Laugh and joke at the porn stars. Have a little fun with it. Don't take it seriously.

 

I know porn isn't sports BUT there are women who complain about it as much as women who complain about porn. They adopt the attitude, "If you can't beat them, join them." They don the baseball caps, cut the stats out of the paper, and cheer the team on. They invite friends over for the game and eat appetizers.

 

This takes the polarization out of it so that you aren't playing a tug-of-war with each other.

 

When he sees that you are giving in, he is more likely to give in a little too. After a while you will be able to pull him away from the porn for other couple-time activities.

 

 

 

Good for you, telling him he didn't need to hide the porn.

 

Now, get a little more in touch with your own sexual side. Check out those hot dudes on hunksforher. You don't have to shove it in his face. Do it casually...for your own pleasure. Keep a few magazines in the bathroom for yourself. Pin up a calendar of hot sexy firemen and keep track of your daily to do list on it. Nothing blatant.

 

Connect with your fantasies. Then you can have a little fun too.

 

 

Well, hold on there. I do think he needs to know how it feels, but I never like this tit for tat thing. It seems to show what I always think-that we just don't care about equality, we just don't like being the one's who are on the short-end.

 

So, basically, she looks at other guys or wants to look at hunksforher, and she may be mad because he beat her to it and watched his desire on a screen? I see this many times, and you and I had this discussion in the other thread about the whole Grandpa era, and how today's women act. I ask, so, was that behavior or the behavior of the OP's guy OK or not? if it wasn't, then why would it be so enjoyable for the woman to do it now? I guess the original behavior wasn't so bad then? it either is bad for both or it isn't. I see this all the time. Just playing a bit of devils advocate;)

 

Then, this brings me to my next downer. Doesn't this seem pathetic at all? He has to watch his girls, she has to watch her men, because they can't be excited by eachother-ugggh. That scenario just seems like such a turnoff, but I guess i would be called insecure. I don't think so, I just want more out of life.

 

I think Jack pointed out very well how these things can affect men as well. So, I won't say much more than that. Taylor, all the pinup stuff may be a bit much for my taste. I know that I wouldn't be turned on at all to have sex with my wife if she had that, or if she went to a male strip club. I couldn't blame her at all for being attracted, but it would just be such turnoff to have sex after that. But, in this case, this guy NEEDS A WAKEUP CALL!

 

For the OP, Taylor had good advice. You need to find a way to feel good about yourself, and take some of the power away from all of that. I'm not sure the tit for tat thing is the way to go, but you can stop trying so hard for him-if he wants to revel in porn. Do your thing, workout, and maybe innocently flirt. Feel good for yourself and for what it is-not to neccessarily get back at him.

 

This is all so difficult today , isn't it? Some days I want to take hard line like some of the posters, other days, I just want to give up, say all relationships are a waste of time, since we all want other people, and relationships are just a business arrangement. let's all just be swingers! what's the point? I must be in bad mood today.

[taylor]

I've seen a few people here say that as long as it's not affecting the sex life, porn is okay. But the truth is, it's obvious that it is affecting the relationship and in relation, it probably is affecting the sex life. I know as a woman, porn doesn't make me feel like being closer or intimate with my partner. It exactly does the opposite. So if I know he was looking at porn. I am less turned on by him and wanting to be with him or wanting to please him. That is affecting our sex life.

 

It's affecting the relationship because you are letting it affect the relationship. Women who don't let porn..or golf, or football, or video games, or fishing, or hunting....bother them, have good relationships and good sex lives.

 

He isn't hurting you by indulging his fantasies or by golfing, fishing or hunting. None of these activities are meant to hurt you. And none of these activities are meant to be any reflection of how he views his relationship with you...they are not barometers of his feelings for you or of your relationship. They are merely activities he enjoys on his own for himself.

 

You turn it into a relationship problem by taking it personally. Just like women turn golf, hunting, or fishing into a relationship problem by taking it personally.

 

Wouldn't you think your husband was being irrational if he started to complain to you like this: Honey, why do you have to watch those romance movies and read those romance books all the time? Don't I give you enough romance? Aren't I enough of a man for you? You need to look at those hunky guys making love to those women in those romance movies to make you happy? I'm not making you happy enough?

 

What if your husband started complaining: Honey, you went shopping all day instead of spending that time with me...you must not love me. Or honey, you spent the entire afternoon talking to your mother on the phone..don't you care about me?

 

Women should stop identifying themselves with porn stars and should stop trying to correlate their own personal lives with adult entertainment videos. Totally irrational.

 

Stop pitting yourself against a porn star. Stop pitting your sex life against what he views in a video. You degrade and insult yourself and your marriage when you do. Learn to separate the two. Comparmentalize. Understand that the two have nothing to do with each other.

 

So what if porn doesn't turn you on. Who said it had to. Watching Texas Chainsaw Massacre doesn't turn me on either. And I'm sure watching "The Notebook" doesn't turn your husband on either. Who cares whether it turns you on or not. Not everything your husband does is supposed to turn you on and I'm sure not everything you do turns your husband on. And I am sure there are things both of you do that turns the other one off, but you still do it. If you let those things bother you, then you are the one letting your sex life be affected.

 

There are plenty of women who watch porn with their husbands and have satisfying sex lives and relationships. They don't make porn "the enemy."

 

Now, if your chief complaint is that he is stuck behind a computer watching porn for 10 or 12 hours a day and is investing no time in the relationship..that's another story. Then it is a matter of adjusting priorities. Just as it would be a matter of adjusting priorities if a person spent enormous amounts of time golfing, hunting, fishing or playing video games...or shopping, talking on the phone, etc.

[JackJack]

1,000 times of the beating of the dead horse!

 

ONCE again, to the OP, if it bothers YOU, then that is what matters.

 

You're gonna get people, who you have seen, who love porn and see no harm in it whats so ever, blah blah blah.....you'll get people who hate it, or don't care for it, or who might be one the fence about it, blah blah blah!

 

Its YOUR marriage, no one else's. Take everything people here have said, weigh what you feel, and if you still come up with the same feeling (which you probably will because its how YOU feel) nothing wrong with that, BTW, then you go from there.

 

Please continue to post here if you feel you need to. Might be best to take a break if you feel even more confused now, and sometimes that's what happens on fourms with lots of different opinons. Sometimes you can feel more confused than you did before you ever posted, and sometimes you might feel at ease and more clear, who knows for sure.

 

Good luck!

[taylor]

Well, hold on there. I do think he needs to know how it feels, but I never like this tit for tat thing. It seems to show what I always think-that we just don't care about equality, we just don't like being the one's who are on the short-end.

 

So, basically, she looks at other guys or wants to look at hunksforher, and she may be mad because he beat her to it and watched his desire on a screen? I see this many times, and you and I had this discussion in the other thread about the whole Grandpa era, and how today's women act. I ask, so, was that behavior or the behavior of the OP's guy OK or not? if it wasn't, then why would it be so enjoyable for the woman to do it now? I guess the original behavior wasn't so bad then? it either is bad for both or it isn't. I see this all the time. Just playing a bit of devils advocate;)

 

Then, this brings me to my next downer. Doesn't this seem pathetic at all? He has to watch his girls, she has to watch her men, because they can't be excited by eachother-ugggh. That scenario just seems like such a turnoff, but I guess i would be called insecure. I don't think so, I just want more out of life.

 

I think Jack pointed out very well how these things can affect men as well. So, I won't say much more than that. Taylor, all the pinup stuff may be a bit much for my taste. I know that I wouldn't be turned on at all to have sex with my wife if she had that, or if she went to a male strip club. I couldn't blame her at all for being attracted, but it would just be such turnoff to have sex after that. But, in this case, this guy NEEDS A WAKEUP CALL!

 

For the OP, Taylor had good advice. You need to find a way to feel good about yourself, and take some of the power away from all of that. I'm not sure the tit for tat thing is the way to go, but you can stop trying so hard for him-if he wants to revel in porn. Do your thing, workout, and maybe innocently flirt. Feel good for yourself and for what it is-not to neccessarily get back at him.

 

This is all so difficult today , isn't it? Some days I want to take hard line like some of the posters, other days, I just want to give up, say all relationships are a waste of time, since we all want other people, and relationships are just a business arrangement. let's all just be swingers! what's the point? I must be in bad mood today.

 

Pyroguy,

 

You sound like a good guy with old-fashioned values. This is a total complement. Believe it or not, I am also a woman with old-fashioned values.

 

I don't watch porn. In fact, if a referendum came around to ban porn nationwide, I would sign it because I believe porn degrades society as a whole, both men and women, at the expense of a few business people who are making billions off of it. The almighty dollar takes precedence again over the morals of a society.

 

However, what a person does in their own home is not my business or anyone else's. If a guy wants to watch porn, he has that right. He is an adult and it is his choice.

 

If a wife is concerned her husband is getting addicted or concerned her children might be exposed to it, then I believe she has a right to step in and fight against it.

 

But these women who are whining that there husbands don't love them or upset because their bodies can't compare to that of a porn star....oooohhhh that really irritates me...because I hate to see women LETTING something or someone define their value like that. And the fact that they are comparing and correlating themselves to something as trashy as porn really gets me fired up.

 

I want to tell these women, if the want to compare themselves to something as a reference, compare themselves to someone or something noble, moral, truly beautiful....not porn or porn stars. They degrade and insult themselves by taking porn personally. I say, take the high road and don't allow yourself to go there. Totally separate you, your relationship, and your sex life from what your husband views on a computer screen or DVD. You are worth far more than any amount of entertainment that comes off of a $15 DVD.

 

My advice to the OP was not supposed to sound tit-for-tat. And if it did, I apologize for not getting my point across properly. The OP should not run out and do what her husband does just to get back at him.

 

But she makes it out as if she is feeling the effects of a double standard: He does this. I don't. It makes me upset he does this..I don't.

 

The thing is SHE is creating the double standard. And she doesn't like it. So change it. She can't change it by changing the husband so she has to change herself.

 

The point I was trying to make is if he looks at an attractive woman and she looks at an attractive man, and both admit that it's OK to look, it removes the double standard that has her so upset.

 

If he looks at porn and she looks at her pinup calendar, and both admit it's OK to look, it again removes the double standard that has her so upset.

 

I think women have been socialized to think that when they marry they are supposed to become "blind" to other men and deny their sexuality.

 

YET

 

men are socialized to think that when they marry they can still have a wandering eye as long as they are discreet about it. And they certainly are not supposed to deny their sexuality.

 

Admitting that both men and women can have wandering eyes but both should be discreet about it or become "blind" to it, I think, is closer to the truth of human behavior. And neither should deny their sexuality because, after all, both men and women were created as sexual beings. To suggest women should be asexual after marriage, or act like they are, or pretend that they are, is absurd.

[taylor]

was the behavior of the OP's guy OK or not? if it wasn't, then why would it be so enjoyable for the woman to do it now? I guess the original behavior wasn't so bad then? it either is bad for both or it isn't. I see this all the time. Just playing a bit of devils advocate;)

 

A person's thoughts and feelings aren't good or bad. So a man or woman who may feel attracted to an attractive person is not good or bad for having that thought or feeling. It just is.

 

That's why I say it's OK for the husband and it's OK for the OP to look at other attractive people or find attractive people attractive.

 

However, ACTIONS are right or wrong, good or bad. So, yes, the fact that her husband ACTED on his lustful feelings was WRONG. And she did tell him that his actions were wrong and embarrassing. And she had every right to. So good for her.

 

The thing is, if he continues to ACT that way, she can continue jumping up and down, getting all upset and screaming at him about it. OR, she can stop trying to change him and change herself instead. I suggested she stop taking him with her in public...if you can't act properly, then you don't go. If he wants to spend time with her in public, he will be forced to change his behavior. If he doesn't, then she will go it alone in public, assured that he will not embarrass or disrespect her, because he won't be there.

 

Then, this brings me to my next downer. Doesn't this seem pathetic at all? He has to watch his girls, she has to watch her men, because they can't be excited by eachother-ugggh. That scenario just seems like such a turnoff, but I guess i would be called insecure. I don't think so, I just want more out of life.

 

One of my favorite quotes from a song (not sure of the title) is "It's not getting what you want, it's wanting what you have."

 

It seems like nowadays people have greater difficulty finding contentment with what is right in front of them...they lose sight of it..in the quest for that which is just out of reach.

 

We didn't learn some of grandma and grandpa's lessons very well.

 

 

 

I think Jack pointed out very well how these things can affect men as well. So, I won't say much more than that. Taylor, all the pinup stuff may be a bit much for my taste. I know that I wouldn't be turned on at all to have sex with my wife if she had that, or if she went to a male strip club. I couldn't blame her at all for being attracted, but it would just be such turnoff to have sex after that. But, in this case, this guy NEEDS A WAKEUP CALL!

 

And I agree with everything Jack said so eloquently.

 

The pin up stuff may be a bit much for your taste, as I am sure strip clubs are for you as well. It's all a bit much for my taste as well.

But if you are living in a household where one partner values those things, you have to deal with it.

These women married these men so they need to find ways to deal with it in their lives.

Taking it "personal," IMO, is the wrong way to deal with it.

 

Like you, I would not be turned on if my husband went to a strip club or watched porn all afternoon. And he would know it and not expect sex from me at that time.

 

But, likewise, I wouldn't be turned on if my husband sat around watching football in his underwear all afternoon drinking beer and smoking cigars. And he would know it and not expect sex from me at that time.

 

It's his choice. A man knows how to groom a woman for sex. And if he wants sex he will do the grooming. And that means making her feel special and wanted and making himself presentable and loveable enough for her to want him.

 

If a husband isn't doing this, he has made a choice. And if he is choosing not to have sex with her by grooming her for it, then that couple has bigger problems than porn.

 

 

This is all so difficult today , isn't it? Some days I want to take hard line like some of the posters, other days, I just want to give up, say all relationships are a waste of time, since we all want other people, and relationships are just a business arrangement. let's all just be swingers! what's the point? I must be in bad mood today.

 

Maybe you just need to get away from LS for a bit (lol)

 

Not all relationships are bad, Pyro. Just the other day (I'm repeating this from another thread) I met a couple, 76 and 78 years old. She just got out of the hospital. They sat on the couch holding hands. That's all they did was dote on each other, complement each other, and they hung on each others' words. And I caught a twinkle in his eye as he gazed at his wife. It was truly a message of hope and inspiration.

[soserious1]

JackJack, bet posts ever and I really think there are alot of women and men that could learn alot from the posts you just made.

 

I've seen a few people here say that as long as it's not affecting the sex life, porn is okay. But the truth is, it's obvious that it is affecting the relationship and in relation, it probably is affecting the sex life. I know as a woman, porn doesn't make me feel like being closer or intimate with my partner. It exactly does the opposite. So if I know he was looking at porn. I am less turned on by him and wanting to be with him or wanting to please him. That is affecting our sex life.

 

I've been there Jersey and can only offer up the observation of oh boy do men get steaming mad when you say thanks but no thanks,go back to your porn collection. From what I've experienced the freedom to watch whatever they'd like isn't enough for a lot of men, they also expect to reserve the right to use a g/friend or wife as a kleenex substitute.

 

I agree that adults should have freedom to read or view anything they like without censorship.. however that right doesn't extend to the freedom to basically use another person as some sort of human fleshlight. I don't want to see or hear about your porn collection, I don't want to hear your comments about that one's boobs or this one's butt. I don't bore you with verbal recitations of things I like that bore you, I deserve the same respect.. and violations of the respect lower my desire level for any sort of sexual activity with you.

[Jersey Shortie]

It's affecting the relationship because you are letting it affect the relationship. Women who don't let porn..or golf, or football, or video games, or fishing, or hunting....bother them, have good relationships and good sex lives.

 

But then one could argue he is too. Because he is choosing to make the porn of the same important or greater, then the way a real life partner feels. And I don't think porn is anywhere near the same thing as golf or football. That whole elemant of sexuality changes it for alot of women. Oh and by the way, I've had a good sex life at some points in my life, and didn't need porn or to accept it for that to be true.

 

 

He isn't hurting you by indulging his fantasies or by golfing, fishing or hunting. None of these activities are meant to hurt you.

 

And the way I view it isn't meant to hurt him. Again,l golfing doesn't hurt me. It's a non-sexual activity. Golfing is an active, fullfilling activity that takes skill.

 

And none of these activities are meant to be any reflection of how he views his relationship with you...they are not barometers of his feelings for you or of your relationship. They are merely activities he enjoys on his own for himself.

 

I don't think that's something you can say. You don't know what it's a reflection of. Honestly, anymore then I do. But the activity itself and say different things to different people.

 

You turn it into a relationship problem by taking it personally. Just like women turn golf, hunting, or fishing into a relationship problem by taking it personally.

 

Again, golfing and porn, not the same thing. This thread is about porn. Not golfing. There are post after post about issues with golfing for a reason. Comparing a non sexual activity to a sexual one makes no sense.

 

Secondly, it takes two for a relationship. If your partner is doing something that is distructive to the relationship, you need to address it. You can't tell me how they should feel anymore then I can tell a man how he shouldn't be turned on by porn. If he wasn't viewing porn to begin with, it wouldn't be a problem at all. The truth is, we all do things in a relationship that either help it or hurt it. And you can't qualify the reasons that another might be bothered by it. Would you tell someone who believed in a woman's right to choose that they were causing problems for their belief?

 

Wouldn't you think your husband was being irrational if he started to complain to you like this: Honey, why do you have to watch those romance movies and read those romance books all the time? Don't I give you enough romance? Aren't I enough of a man for you? You need to look at those hunky guys making love to those women in those romance movies to make you happy? I'm not making you happy enough?

 

Hey, If he wants to watch Jennifer Aniston and think she is cute, that's cool with me. It's the taking it to the next level that is an issue. Thinking about banging her or what she looks like naked and acting on it with himself.

 

What if your husband started complaining: Honey, you went shopping all day instead of spending that time with me...you must not love me. Or honey, you spent the entire afternoon talking to your mother on the phone..don't you care about me?

 

Shopping is not the same as porn either.

 

Women should stop identifying themselves with porn stars and should stop trying to correlate their own personal lives with adult entertainment videos. Totally irrational.

 

I'm sorry but this is completely hypocritcal. Perhaps *MEN* should stop identifying themselves with porn movies and thinking their sexuality needs to be tied to it to it. I think men identify themselves to porn movies just as easily as a woman can to porn stars. When yuor husband/boyfriend is asking you to act more pornish, that sends a big message about what he wants. And it's not you as yourself. They should correlate their personal lives with the real woman in their life instead of hoping their real woman start acting more like a movie.

 

 

Stop pitting yourself against a porn star. Stop pitting your sex life against what he views in a video. You degrade and insult yourself and your marriage when you do. Learn to separate the two. Comparmentalize. Understand that the two have nothing to do with each other.

 

Some would argue that a man degrades and insults his partner by wanting to use porn and his real life partner interchanably..using his fantasies of busty young girls and wanting his partner to watch it and respond to it like he does. Perhaps men should learn to relate the two and see how a woman can relate to the situation and how women are treated and depicted in porn movies. funny that you tell women need to Comparmentalize. That's a pretty male behavior. Maybe men need to uncomparmentalize instead.

 

 

There are plenty of women who watch porn with their husbands and have satisfying sex lives and relationships. They don't make porn "the enemy."

 

there are pleny of women who don't watch it, and their husbands don't either and have great sex lives and happy relationships. They don't need porn to be their friend.

[JackJack]

soserious, I just think you were delt a bad hand in the relationship you were/are in etc. I'm so sorry you've had to go through what you did with that person.

 

I'm sure you know NOT ALL men are like that....I think once you truly start to believe that, then things will get better for you. I'm sure its hard to change your mindset though, when you feel it has been destroyed.

[soserious1]

Well, shoots my theory out of the water then with regard to your ex-husband.

 

Guess the only thing you can do is chalk it up to character flaw...he is a shallow, superficial person.

 

What do you think he's going to do when the girlfriend hits 40 yo...if he makes it that far....trade her in for two 20 year olds (lol)

 

SoSerious, there are many men in monogomous relationships with "aging" women. They don't look at porn. They don't cheat. And they still have sex with their wives.

 

And you can reverse that statement gender-wise as well...there are many women in monogomous relationships with "aging" men. They don't look at porn or cheat. And they still have sex with these husbands.

 

I hope one day soon you meet someone who will appreciate you inside and out. In the meantime, appreciate yourself...and stop letting that shallow scumbag of a husband of yours define your value.

 

Did you happen to see the cover of the April issue of People magazine. Valerie Bertinelli, 48 YEARS OLD IN A BIKINI, and looking hot. I don't want to hear any more about age and loss of sex appeal. No more.

 

Your ex-husband is an idiot.

 

 

Taylor, as far as my Ex goes, at this point in time I'm actually relieved that the marriage is over. I'm also grateful that I know,very clearly the reason my marriage fell apart. The reason is hurtful but it is at least clear and it is very honest..I'm not sitting here twisting in limbo trying to figure out what I did and jumping thru hoops trying to get him back like so many on the divorce and infidelity forums. For that I am most grateful. I suspect my ex transfered a lot of feelings about his own aging onto me.. it's hard to deny you're becoming a middle aged man when you're staring into the face of your very obviously aging wife,.As damaged as things got we could have possibly worked things out had he honestly finally admitted this but alas he did not

so his mid-life issues are no longer my problem.

 

As for dating etc.. I suffer from no illusions.. while slim I am NOT Valerie Bertonlli or Christie Brinkley. I am an average woman who appears her stated age. I wouldn't bother signing up for any online match making service or going out of my way in any manner really to meet so called eligible singles. If I meet someone nice on my own fine, if I don't that's also fine. I'm ok with the idea of living without a partner or never having sex again.

 

One of the few nice things about aging is the dawning realization that we make a lot of noise and fuss over things.. much ado over things that aren't worth the hassle. At this point in time, I'd say relationships and sex are on the why bother ? list for me:)

[soserious1]

soserious, I just think you were delt a bad hand in the relationship you were/are in etc. I'm so sorry you've had to go through what you did with that person.

 

I'm sure you know NOT ALL men are like that....I think once you truly start to believe that, then things will get better for you. I'm sure its hard to change your mindset though, when you feel it has been destroyed.

 

Truth be told I don't really care what another adults reads or watchs on his/her tv or computer.. what I do care about is this.. if I tell you respectfully and clearly that one of your interests is something that I'd really rather not hear about,see or be forced to talk about I'd like that to be respected. That is a far cry from being asked to give up that activity.

[The Collector]

As for dating etc.. I suffer from no illusions.. while slim I am NOT Valerie Bertonlli or Christie Brinkley. I am an average woman who appears her stated age.

 

And the vast majority of eligible males aren't Brad Pitt or George Clooney either. You can find an excellent partner if you want - but you have to think you're 'worth it.' And you say you are under no illusions... but I think you are maybe suffering from depression at the moment. Does that sound possible to you? You definitely display very low self-esteem, which you should work on for your own peace of mind, if not to attract a partner.

[JackJack]

And the vast majority of eligible males aren't Brad Pitt or George Clooney either. You can find an excellent partner if you want - but you have to think you're 'worth it.' And you say you are under no illusions... but I think you are maybe suffering from depression at the moment. Does that sound possible to you? You definitely display very low self-esteem, which you should work on for your own peace of mind, if not to attract a partner.

 

I agree, with the fact that the low self esteem and depression will not attract many positive men with good outlooks on relationships...but then again, this is probably what she wants....that way it keeps men at bay and she is free from ever wanting to connect with a man again....Its safer to live behind that brick wall they create for themselves I suppose.

[soserious1]

I agree, with the fact that the low self esteem and depression will not attract many positive men with good outlooks on relationships...but then again, this is probably what she wants....that way it keeps men at bay and she is free from ever wanting to connect with a man again....Its safer to live behind that brick wall they create for themselves I suppose.

 

I'm in my early fifties, the vast majority of great men in my peer group are already married. If I wished to attempt to attract men to date I would need to actively pursue things like eharmony and match.com, start attending mid-life singles dance parties and the like.

 

To be very truthful such activities don't interest me, if I run into a nice person, fine but I'm not going out on any man hunt, it just really isn't worth the time and trouble imho. I'm not looking to attract anybody.

[Brulee]

I need to really think about all of this. Yes, the double standards really, bother me. I think double standards are for those who wish to have it all, in a selfish way. I am not even sure if his double standard was actually just a way of trying not to have to admit that he still secretly was enjoying porn. I do not know if it would really even affect him at all. He seems a bit pre-programmed to treat disagreements as a game to win - not a chance to love and trust and come up with compromises that work. If the subject gets brought up, he tends to try to find a very quick escape - whenever we fight , we are "beating each other up" - I would rather have a method of solving issues somehow in a more loving matter, but he tenses up, get very defiant and plain mean...I told him that I know a lot of it is my own issues of insecurity, but I wanted to work through it with him, that my being upset did not seem like I was trying to control him, but honestly that the actions really hurt me and perhaps working through it would help. He did not wish to work through it - he wants me to just drop it, after all he isn't doing anything wrong, and I can look on his computer. Of course, I know that he hides it - I know in my heart he does. I wish he would not get mad, would talk calmly about it, and not make me feel like it is non of my business, even if it hurts me. How is that loving me in any fashion? I do not think I would be this way if something I did hurt him. I would at least try talking it out and seeing if it can be resolved.

I think people can be very selfish and entitled. I wish looks were not such a defining thing - after all, we don't have too much control of our looks, other than staying in shape and dressing attractively. The rest is just the hand we are dealt with. It is sad that it seems that when somebody who just happens to be born prettier, is worth more?

How much of our personality creates our sexuality to a mate?