Me of All People

[pelicanpreacher]

oh ok...lol:rolleyes:...I'll play. You mentioned making amends and fixing things and changing bad behavior....are those not good works?

 

I contend that you do not need to do "good works" to be forgiven. However, as a forgiven, repentant sinner, "good works" would or should follow.

 

Come on now DM ... paying a debt in atonement doesn't equate to good works for we must all pay our way for what we do and take in this world because there's no such thing as a free lunch. Good works, on the other hand, are selfless deeds done for the sake of charity with neither expectation of reward nor praise and acknowledgement for the act. It's simply done because the do'er recognizes that its the right thing to do at the time. It would be wise to understand and live the distinction between the two!

[bentnotbroken]

oh ok...lol:rolleyes:...I'll play. You mentioned making amends and fixing things and changing bad behavior....are those not good works?

 

I contend that you do not need to do "good works" to be forgiven. However, as a forgiven, repentant sinner, "good works" would or should follow.

 

 

No you don't need to do good works to be forgiven. Being repentant and a changed heart makes you want to do the things that will ease the pain we cause others. The change in my heart made me realize that I needed to go to the people I had hurt with my actions, apologize and then work to help them heal anyway I can.

 

Even Mr. Messy received and apology from me, I went to counseling with him to help him deal with what I had put him through. That had nothing to do with me earning brownie points, it had everything to do with the me repenting, wanting to change and do right by others. That's all I meant. A truly repentant heart won't let someone else hurt at their hands without trying to make it better.

[desertmoon]

No you don't need to do good works to be forgiven. Being repentant and a changed heart makes you want to do the things that will ease the pain we cause others. The change in my heart made me realize that I needed to go to the people I had hurt with my actions, apologize and then work to help them heal anyway I can

 

My point, exactly.....repenting, change of behavior, 'fixing the wrongs", does NOT equal forgiveness, like you said on your post earlier. Forgiveness is by the grace of god ONLY. Gosh, I should be a Christian!

 

Even Mr. Messy received and apology from me, I went to counseling with him to help him deal with what I had put him through.

 

You said that like you do not think he deserved an apology from you...lol.."even"...

[bentnotbroken]

My point, exactly.....repenting, change of behavior, 'fixing the wrongs", does NOT equal forgiveness, like you said on your post earlier. Forgiveness is by the grace of god ONLY. Gosh, I should be a Christian!

 

 

 

You said that like you do not think he deserved an apology from you...lol.."even"...

 

 

I say it with the awe of God's power. Even I, as horrible as I am can want to aplologize. I know that I have never been one to apologize to anyone, especially someone that I dislike intensly.

[desertmoon]

I say it with the awe of God's power. Even I, as horrible as I am can want to aplologize. I know that I have never been one to apologize to anyone, especially someone that I dislike intensly.

 

hmmm...we have a lot of work to do then in the "repentant-sinner-doing-what-should-or-must come after forgiveness" department, huh?

[bentnotbroken]

hmmm...we have a lot of work to do then in the "repentant-sinner-doing-what-should-or-must come after forgiveness" department, huh?

 

 

I never thoght otherwise. I am a work in progress. Always striving to better the person I am and get rid of the things that stand between me and God.

[Dexter Morgan]

How can you have peace and still be resentful...?

 

easy...I have peace because she is no longer my problem, and I don't have to look at her on a daily basis any longer wondering why I'm still with her.

 

resentment comes out of destroying my kid's lives.

[stampdaddy]

easy...I have peace because she is no longer my problem, and I don't have to look at her on a daily basis any longer wondering why I'm still with her.

 

resentment comes out of destroying my kid's lives.

 

Dexter,

 

In NO way am I trying to minimize the damage done to you and your children, but is that how you REALLY see it, that she "destroyed" you childrens lives?

 

And, in NO way am I wanting to start a "new" battle on this thread (where is the OP anyway?) I am sincerely wondering if, in fact, this is your daily outlook, that your childrens lives are "destroyed". Bad things happen, plans are altered, dreams are shattered, etc.. BUT, to think that their lives are destroyed is sad...

[Dexter Morgan]

Dexter,

 

In NO way am I trying to minimize the damage done to you and your children, but is that how you REALLY see it, that she "destroyed" you childrens lives?

 

we'll they aren't dead if thats what you are getting at.

 

But my kids now will not have the kind of life I wanted to build for them.

 

 

BUT, to think that their lives are destroyed is sad...

 

well maybe not completely destroyed, but their childhood is going to be crap

[lostsoulmate]

Dexter,

 

In NO way am I trying to minimize the damage done to you and your children, but is that how you REALLY see it, that she "destroyed" you childrens lives?

 

And, in NO way am I wanting to start a "new" battle on this thread (where is the OP anyway?) I am sincerely wondering if, in fact, this is your daily outlook, that your childrens lives are "destroyed". Bad things happen, plans are altered, dreams are shattered, etc.. BUT, to think that their lives are destroyed is sad...

 

I agree.

IMO what got destroyed was the idea you had for your life.

She didn't destroy their lives.

My mother being a heroin addict and putting myself and my younger brother in a house with 5 to 7 drug addicts passed out through out the house was destroying her kids' lives.

The two of you splitting was probably the best thing for your children. Now they may have two happy parents in separate homes, instead of two unhappy parents fighting in the same home.

[stampdaddy]

we'll they aren't dead if thats what you are getting at.

 

But my kids now will not have the kind of life I wanted to build for them.

 

 

 

 

well maybe not completely destroyed, but their childhood is going to be crap

 

again, not at all trying to make light of the situation that you and your family has.. I get it.. And their childhood WILL be crap if you ALLOW it to be crap. I am a father too. I got the "I love you but not in love..." line, my dreams of the life I wanted for my children too were "altered" and I was left with choices: dwell on how crappy it could be, or thrive to make this new path what it SHOULD be (just different).

 

Hope you see I am not "picking" at you

[Dexter Morgan]

I agree.

IMO what got destroyed was the idea you had for your life.

She didn't destroy their lives.

 

Coming from a woman that is about to move her daughter 14 hours away from her father, and cheated on him...why does this not surprise me?

 

 

The two of you splitting was probably the best thing for your children. Now they may have two happy parents in separate homes, instead of two unhappy parents fighting in the same home.

 

Us splitting up was definitely the best thing for me.

 

as far as two happy homes? nah....its one.

 

she has custody, her bf just got out of prison, and on my weekend with the kids, he hit her. ya, real happy.

 

 

and as far as her being happy, the one thing she'll never be happy is being with the same man for too long a period of time. Thats why she is no longer my problem.

[Dexter Morgan]

again, not at all trying to make light of the situation that you and your family has.. I get it.. And their childhood WILL be crap if you ALLOW it to be crap.

 

The only time it isn't crap is when they are with me. They don't want to go back home after their weekends with me.

 

I can't control where she lives, what she does...and since I am the father, getting custody is impossible unless I have something tangible on her.

 

and even though she is dating a felon, even that isn't enough to get custody...a judge even told me that.

 

 

Hope you see I am not "picking" at you

 

not at all.

[pelicanpreacher]

The only time it isn't crap is when they are with me. They don't want to go back home after their weekends with me.

 

I can't control where she lives, what she does...and since I am the father, getting custody is impossible unless I have something tangible on her.

 

and even though she is dating a felon, even that isn't enough to get custody...a judge even told me that.

 

 

 

 

not at all.

 

Once the first child hits the age of emmancipation make your move for no matter how much a judge might stick his chin and chest out to the contrary he must abide by law and acquiece to the wishes the children stipulate as to their best interests once they're old enough to make that decision. Though our judicial system is rife with arrogant judges making life decisions without qualification based exclusively upon their own skewed perceptions of what is best for the child time is on your side and if I were you I'd make sure your ex knows that her day of reckoning will come on the isssue of custody whether she likes it or not!

[Dexter Morgan]

Once the first child hits the age of emmancipation make your move for no matter how much a judge might stick his chin and chest out to the contrary he must abide by law and acquiece to the wishes the children stipulate as to their best interests once they're old enough to make that decision.

 

 

Believe me, I'm waiting that out. My oldest won't be that age for another 4 years. And even then what do I do? if my oldest says he wants to come live with me....it would be like I'm leaving my youngest behind and breaking apart the siblings.

 

I just don't see a win out of this for anyone but her since she is clearly only interested in child support.

[mark982]

dexter, that just doesn't make sense.how can your ex living w/ a convicted felon(who hits her),who just got outta prison,not make for a bad enviroment for the kids? sometime i just don't understand how our system works!

[Dexter Morgan]

dexter, that just doesn't make sense.how can your ex living w/ a convicted felon(who hits her),who just got outta prison,not make for a bad enviroment for the kids? sometime i just don't understand how our system works!

 

as long as there is no proof that they are mistreated, or no proof that they have controlled substances in the house, there isn't anything I can do.

 

my lawyer said all I can do is wait for them to "f##k up" and then come see him....but that doesn't make me feel good in the meantime.

 

I already told the guy I could give a s##t about him and her being together, but let him know that the police better get to them faster than me if I ever find out my boys are living around drugs, or that they are abused in any way.

[Tired03]

Did you have a custody evaluator DM? Not sure what state you are in, but if it's truly a situation like that, that might be a good route.

[Darth Vader]

Dexter. It must be very nice for you to live in a black and white world. You think people who are WS don't suffer? Do you think that life is peachy for us? You think there isn't a price to be paid? I don't go one minute a day without dealing with this issue at some level so don't sell yourself on the fact that there isn't some punishment being dolted out. You've sold yourself on the fact that the punishment you think is deserved is the only one that makes sense. Well you ARE WRONG.

 

I have read a ton of your posts and I still contend that your simplistic view to this issue doesn't resolve problems or issues, it just provides you with an easy way to point a finger and determine what is the proper result.

 

Intent and motive and result do matter.

 

 

To some betrayed spouses, punishment is not enough, because the cheater is still breathing......... Well, it's the truth isn't it?

 

Oh, and yes it is a white and black world(except to cheaters), either someone chooses to have sex with someone who's not their spouse, or they choose to remain faithful to their spouse. There's no middle ground. You can't say that you only had sex with another person a little bit........

[Darth Vader]

Uh, in case you haven't noticed...thats what people do here. Yourself included.

 

 

 

 

Who am I to judge? As someone who has never cheated, and never slept with someone elses wife, I think I am entitled.

 

Everyone judges, even you. dont even try to say you don't.

 

 

 

 

again, for you as a cheater, sure.

 

 

 

 

Of course you feel I am way off....you are a cheater. You are the opposite of me.

 

 

 

 

are you talking about intent with cheating and legal matters? If so, no, intent doesn't matter to the judge. cheating has no legal bearing with regards to divorce, or any other legal matter...intent or not.

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't know "making it all better", no matter how its achieved, was undesirable...?

 

 

 

 

by trying to get other people to see that life with a cheater is no life at all.

 

Whether they want to get rid of their cheater is up to them. Everyone has their own way of coping with what was done to them. Everyone here states their opinon and it is up to the betrayed to choose for themselves. Which is why I always tell a BS that chooses to stay, that I think there is a better life out there for them, but if they choose to stay with their cheater, then good luck with that and my sympathies lie with them.

 

 

Who are you to judge any and all situations?

 

A typical and pathetic response from cheaters who don't want to accept consequences for their actions, let alone have any responsibility either. They use this line of scripture to hide behind it, WHAT A RUSE! What hypocracy!

 

Now that's not judgement, that's REALITY!

[Athena]

Believe me, I'm waiting that out. My oldest won't be that age for another 4 years. And even then what do I do? if my oldest says he wants to come live with me....it would be like I'm leaving my youngest behind and breaking apart the siblings.

 

I just don't see a win out of this for anyone but her since she is clearly only interested in child support.

 

Hey Dex, try offering your exW child support money, but ask for the kids. Tell her she can have 'weekends' with them... it'll be cheaper for her, and if its true that she is Only interested in child support, then it seems like an option to pay to get to keep them...?

[pelicanpreacher]

Believe me, I'm waiting that out. My oldest won't be that age for another 4 years. And even then what do I do? if my oldest says he wants to come live with me....it would be like I'm leaving my youngest behind and breaking apart the siblings.

 

I just don't see a win out of this for anyone but her since she is clearly only interested in child support.

 

The win here comes from the fact that the reduced support will stress your ex into making a mistake that you can capitalize upon. With her track record for making poor decisions coupled with poor coping skills it won't be long before she f##ks up! Know that the violence that she's experienced thus far with her thug lover will escalate when the gravy train tightens up so you'll have to vigillent in watching for signs of abuse to your youngest to get child protective services involved. So, by the time this time period has come to fruition, you'd better have gotten your ducks in a row financially to have her and her household closely monitored to ensure the safety of the remaining child insuring that you anticipate the worst case scenario of the unexpected!

 

I know you carry terrible angst about separating the children during this critical stage of their development but know that it will only be for the short term if my predictions are correct and you will be completely involved in watching over their well being. Have faith that that she will follow the path of her destination as she entrenchs deeper into being the selfish, immature, and self-absorbed creature of habit she's currently revealed herself to be when the going gets tough and your opportunity to have both children happily living under your roof full time may come sooner than you think!

[mark982]

i'm assuming he's a convicted drug dealer. very few people stay clean after the probation drug tests,very few and stats back me up on this.so it's only a matter of time,till they screw up.

[lostsoulmate]

i'm assuming he's a convicted drug dealer. very few people stay clean after the probation drug tests,very few and stats back me up on this.so it's only a matter of time,till they screw up.

 

Tisk, tisk, never assume.

Assuming make an ass out of u and me.

[soserious1]

Do I believe that otherwise good people get caught up in a moment and make the grave mistake of being unfaithful without premeditated intent and planning? Sure I do, I'm more than sure that many alcohol fueled one night stands happen in just this way.

 

Can you forgive a spouse for doing such a thing? yeah, I would guess a person most probably could.. however for ME ,while I can work toward's forgiveness I could never forget what happened, images if his infidelity would flash thru my mind at all sorts of odd moments. His poor judgement in allowing himself to be placed in such a situation would worry me.. I would have no trust in somebody who out of the blue,got drunk at a party and decided to bang another women.

 

I can see myself reaching a level of forgiveness such that I no longer harbored bad feelings and hatred towards such a spouse, I can see myself hoping that he learned a valuable lesson via the pain he caused me and that he would refrain from cheating in future. However, that future wouldn't be with me, I would hurt, I would cry, I would be in pain.. but I would end the marriage upon discovery of his infidelity.