Decline of Religion and God

[Rooster_DAR]

Interesting topic here. Just as I have predicted for a number of years, that religion will decline more and more as we become more informed and educated.

 

America is a less Christian nation than it was 20 years ago, and Christianity is not losing out to other religions, but primarily to a rejection of religion altogether, a survey published Monday found.

 

Is anybody at all surprised by these findings?

 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayoflife/03/09/us.religion.less.christian/index.html

http://www.americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/

[fral945]

Actually, I believe religiosity may be increasing worldwide (though in educated populations it is decreasing). I say this because even though people are becoming more educated, the more highly educated are reproducing at a slower rate than the less educated.

[LovieDove24]

I believe education and open-mindedness go hand in hand. I believe this is the reason more gays, blacks and other minorities are more accepted nowadays too.

 

However I don't believe the "decline in belief" has as much to do with education as it does with people actually having options now. Fifty years ago people did not have the same religious freedoms as they do now.

[disgracian]

I couldn't care less either way as long as everyone left each other the hell alone about it.

 

Cheers,

D.

[JamesM]

First off, this survey is in America only...good or bad.

 

Second, "The survey also found that "born-again" or "evangelical" Christianity is on the rise."

 

Third, if we have learned anything, it is that people SAY they are a Christian yet never really are in any outward way or practice. So, it very well could be that part of the 11% is that more people are actually admitting what they hadn't in the past.

 

Fourth, I didn't see any connection to one's level of education. Unless there was a question relating to education, we cannot connect this to education.

 

And as is obvious, the acceptance of something in no way indicates its truth. However, if this makes one feel better that more and more people do not believe it as he or she does not, then this may simply lull more and more people into dying without the reality of eternity making an impact on them while they have an opportunity to accept the salvation presented to them.

[Rooster_DAR]

Fourth, I didn't see any connection to one's level of education. Unless there was a question relating to education, we cannot connect this to education.

 

Education has a lot to do with it, that's a observable fact. I don't need to provide references, just do a search on Google or Yahoo for "education and religion".

[JamesM]

Education has a lot to do with it, that's a observable fact. I don't need to provide references, just do a search on Google or Yahoo for "education and religion".

 

No, you can provide data (maybe) that shows how education and religion are connected and maybe even how it causes religion to decline, BUT this survey didn't give that connection...or did I miss it?

 

Of those people they surveyed, we don't know what their education level is, nor do we know their financial status.

 

It could be a number of reasons that gave these results.

 

 

In fact, your CNN article gave reasons such as disgust with Christianity being perceived to be connected to the Republican Party, Catholics leaving their Church due to the priest sex scandals, and it is now more socially acceptable to not believe.

 

Interesting to note that...."In the survey, one in five Americans said they have no religious identity or did not answer the question." To make these statistics less than a lie, we need to know how many did not answer the question and for what reason.

 

As you know from your past Christian background, there are many who call themselves Christians yet never attend churches, etc. It is in this segment that IMO the decline occurred the most. The ARIS article states that "Ninety percent of the decline comes from the non-Catholic segment of the Christian population, largely from the mainline denominations, including Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Episcopalians/Anglicans, and the United Church of Christ. These groups, whose proportion of the American population shrank from 18.7 percent in 1990 to 17.2 percent in 2001, all experienced sharp numerical declines this decade and now constitute just 12.9 percent. " Sadly, the mainline denominations are the ones with the most non-attending members.

 

It is also encouraging to note that "Most of the growth in the Christian population occurred among those who would identify only as "Christian," "Evangelical/Born Again," or "non-denominational Christian." The last of these, associated with the growth of megachurches, has increased from less than 200,000 in 1990 to 2.5 million in 2001 to over 8 million today. These groups grew from 5 percent of the population in 1990 to 8.5 percent in 2001 to 11.8 percent in 2008. Significantly, 38.6 percent of mainline Protestants now also identify themselves as evangelical or born again." This would seem to indicate that more of those who call themselves are Christians actually ARE Christians.

 

Fascinating survey. Does it show a decline in actual Christians, or does it show that more of those who called themselves Christians yet never saw the inside of the church now simply state they have no religion? IMO this is indicated more so than those who were true Christians suddenly left their salvation behind.

[Groovy]

While the findings don't surprise me they can be interperted in certain ways. I go to church and religion is a big thing for me. But I do not believe in a lot of it's teachings. When the bible was written woman got married at age 13 and their purpose was to copulate. If I decided to not have sex before marriage I may never get laid!

 

Many people abandon religion because they feel they need to conform to all of it's teachings. One hundred years ago people were more afraid to speak out and question it. I think more people prefer to be called "spiritual" verus follow a religious sect that may teach things that in the modern world seem impractical.

 

People who fo not follow religion can have faith, morals or a sense of afterlife. And just because someone has a religion doesn't mean they have faith, morals or a sense of afterlife either!

[quankanne]

a survey "revealing" a particular "fact" is a lot like a credit history – it's never going to reveal the same thing about the same person at any given time because surrounding events shape your thoughts and answers. It's a blip of recorded information in a huge spectrum of time, and that spectrum shifts.

 

so, no, I don't think the survey is saying anything important or new. People are going to believe as they believe ... what you extrapolate is based on the questions you ask and those involved in the survey.

[Moose]

Just like any media outlet, they will post negative results rather than positive.

 

To me, God's plan is working according to His will, and it WILL be done accordingly.

 

In other words, what you see in these reports is RIGHT in line with prophesy....take it, leave it, but you can't IGNORE it.

[wuggle]

Moose, I'm confused, are you saying that the decline in religion was prophesied by God ?

[disgracian]

Prophecies allow you to interpret almost any event as being their fulfillment. The prophecies of the "end times" have (with the exception of the last ones that actually show god to exist) been fulfilled maybe a dozen times or more over the last 2,000 years.

 

The vagueness of the prophecies combined with peoples' own eagerness to see them in everyday events, combined with the fact that they have all been completely wrong every single time means that we're better off ignoring them and their 0% success rating.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Rooster_DAR]

Well the observation that more people are claiming to be none's is a pretty good indicator that religion in America is losing ground. That percentage will likely continue to rise as the none's produce offspring with no religious indoctrination.

 

I think (just my opinion) there is a good chance that higher education (whether academic or not) has it's hand in some of this although it could be a combination of many factors. Perhaps some of it comes from the mistrust of Church clergy who continue molesting young children .

 

Personally I'm not sure whether we would be better or worse off without religion altogether, I guess we will have to see what transpires as generations pass. Maybe if we could just re-write every religions scriptures to all agree with each other .

 

Cheers!

[Moose]

Prophecies allow you to interpret almost any event as being their fulfillment.

Not so in my mind. Not if you take look at the context on each occasion (you mention later) as the Scripture explains....

The prophecies of the "end times" have (with the exception of the last ones that actually show god to exist) been fulfilled maybe a dozen times or more over the last 2,000 years.

True. And each one had a consequence, and were fulfilled, or are you talking about present time not the "biblical era"? We are still on "time line" so to speak as far as the Church is concerned.

 

To me there is proof that all will be done according to what God has planned acorrding to HIS timeline, everything that I've witnessed thus far point towards His return. (You last exception)

The vagueness of the prophecies combined with peoples' own eagerness to see them in everyday events, combined with the fact that they have all been completely wrong every single time means that we're better off ignoring them and their 0% success rating.

Only God knows when He'll return. So yes, you're absolutely right. However, we, or at least I will not be caught asleep or aware of the signs He specifically told us to look for.

I think (just my opinion) there is a good chance that higher education (whether academic or not) has it's hand in some of this although it could be a combination of many factors.

I agree as well, where getting smarter, and faster and become more of our own, "gods" rather than relying on THE God. However, I point back to my original post. Media outlets will always reflect the negative aspect of the story. I don't have time to look up links right now, but there are many (credibal) reports that would knock your reports into the ground....just my .02

[quankanne]

the observation that more people are claiming to be none is a pretty good indicator that religion in America is losing ground

 

not really. Like I said, you're only looking at a blip in time. Track those people surveyed for the next 10-15 years and see what their attitude is as they respond to the whammies and joys life brings them. Heck, ask anyone on this board and they'll tell you their journey is ever changing. Something like faith isn't static.

[Moose]

Moose, I'm confused, are you saying that the decline in religion was prophesied by God ?

Yes I am. I point to the sermon on the mount, specifically here: Matthew 24:3-51.

[wuggle]

If God himself has prophesised the decline or religion then all I can say to that is Amen !.

 

IMO the sooner that the human race, through increased education or otherwise, throws off the shackles of a belief in God and grows up and accepts responsibility for their own actions the better.

 

As an aside, possibly to reinforce the question of the OP. I have noticed over the past 20 years in th UK that about 1/2+ of all churches have gone into decline, been demolished or developed into flats. IME, in the UK at least the 'traditional' christian religions are dying out, however due to an increase in immigration etc the number of Mosques etc are increasing. I cannot comment on the US.

 

Maybe in 30 years time , when the next generation or two kicks in , the number of mosques will decline dramatically.

 

I look forward to a future without God.

[disgracian]

Not so in my mind. Not if you take look at the context on each occasion (you mention later) as the Scripture explains....

Every generation since Jesus' alleged life and death have thought they were living in the last days. They all saw the signs and I'm pretty sure they were not all ignorant of context. I'm also pretty sure they could see how all the previous generations were in error, but just couldn't see that they were falling into the same trap. You and your generation are just the latest iteration of that cycle.

True. And each one had a consequence, and were fulfilled, or are you talking about present time not the "biblical era"?

No, I mean that the same prophecy has been perceived to be fulfilled multiple times. Then the final pieces don't fall into place, and the cycle repeats again with the same prophecy being applied to the latest world event. It demonstrates that nobody has the faintest idea what they're talking about, and can't even see that they're making the same mistake as everybody before them has made.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Moose]

Every generation since Jesus' alleged life and death have thought they were living in the last days. They all saw the signs and I'm pretty sure they were not all ignorant of context. I'm also pretty sure they could see how all the previous generations were in error, but just couldn't see that they were falling into the same trap. You and your generation are just the latest iteration of that cycle.

 

No, I mean that the same prophecy has been perceived to be fulfilled multiple times. Then the final pieces don't fall into place, and the cycle repeats again with the same prophecy being applied to the latest world event. It demonstrates that nobody has the faintest idea what they're talking about, and can't even see that they're making the same mistake as everybody before them has made.

 

Cheers,

D.

Again, you're taking one word and completely losing the context of it. Just because, "Generation X" won't live forever, that does not mean that the generation Christ teaches about is done and over with.

 

What Christ is talking about is this GENERATION of man....

 

The first were Adam and Eve, and they fulfilled God's command and populated the Earth, that is one generation....

 

Then the flood, (THAT generation is gone, done and over with the exception of Noah and his family).

 

Man is now living in the, "generation" of Noah.....life, (as we know it) will continue and man will not become extinct until we see God return, rather it be during my earthly generation, or the generation of MAN as a whole.....does that make more sense to you?

[Rooster_DAR]

the observation that more people are claiming to be none is a pretty good indicator that religion in America is losing ground

 

not really. Like I said, you're only looking at a blip in time. Track those people surveyed for the next 10-15 years and see what their attitude is as they respond to the whammies and joys life brings them. Heck, ask anyone on this board and they'll tell you their journey is ever changing. Something like faith isn't static.

 

These statistics are the sum of ten years of inquiry, how much more time do you want to add to that? I agree that more time will provide a better map, but you can't simply dismiss it as invalid.

[disgracian]

Again, you're taking one word and completely losing the context of it. Just because, "Generation X" won't live forever, that does not mean that the generation Christ teaches about is done and over with.

That isn't even close to what I was talking about. It is you that seems to struggle with context, if not merely the meaning of words.

does that make more sense to you?

In relation to what I was talking about, it makes none whatsoever.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Lovelybird]

IMO the sooner that the human race, through increased education or otherwise, throws off the shackles of a belief in God and grows up and accepts responsibility for their own actions the better.

 

.

Do you see that happening?? take responsibility for their own actions? if so according to your idea, the higher education the higher moral. but why adultery, fornication, cheating, murder, unloving, unfaithfulness, hatred....all evil things increasing?

 

A professor still cheat, even a president did so

 

do you really think people take responsibility for their actions? if so, the world must be a different look than now

 

The very thing God wants us is to be responsible person. A person who believe in God will consider if his action please to God or not. but a person who don't believe in God, will consider if his action benefit himself or not. which one is more responsible?

 

Human own flesh or selfish is a monster very hard to be tamed.

 

your view is very unrealistic

[D-Lish]

A professor still cheat, even a president did so

 

A person who believe in God will consider if his action please to God or not. but a person who don't believe in God, will consider if his action benefit himself or not. which one is more responsible?

 

 

More than a few American Prsidents have committed adultry.

They also attended church and claimed to be Christians. These men did believe in god.

 

It's unfair to assume that people that don't believe in god only do things that benefit themselves.

 

I know many, many wonderful selfless and generous people that don't believe in god. It's called having a conscience.

[Lovelybird]

one who claimed to believe in God but doesn't totally submit to God's will, are many in this world

 

I know many, many wonderful selfless and generous people that don't believe in god. It's called having a conscience.

 

if such individuals exist, that is very few of them. generally people seek satisfy own flesh, or self centered. if not so, the world won't be fully filled with hurting people by others selfish actions. No such a person reach the perfection that consider others 24/7. One person can do good things based on wrong motives, such as fame, good name.....

[D-Lish]

I think it's irresponsible and pompous to make a statement that only religious people do things for selfless reasons.