Decline of Religion and God

[Lovelybird]

It is not a big brush

 

It is a truth that every human flesh has selfish tendency

[taiko]

If God himself has prophesised the decline or religion then all I can say to that is Amen !.

 

IMO the sooner that the human race, through increased education or otherwise, throws off the shackles of a belief in God and grows up and accepts responsibility for their own actions the better.

 

As an aside, possibly to reinforce the question of the OP. I have noticed over the past 20 years in th UK that about 1/2+ of all churches have gone into decline, been demolished or developed into flats. IME, in the UK at least the 'traditional' christian religions are dying out, however due to an increase in immigration etc the number of Mosques etc are increasing. I cannot comment on the US.

 

Maybe in 30 years time , when the next generation or two kicks in , the number of mosques will decline dramatically.

 

I look forward to a future without God.

 

America has a different immigration pattern. We don't have Muslims coming for economic and social freedoms to America like Europe does. I know I here the stories about the children showing more religious fever then their parents. In our short colonial history the only large Muslim populations we obsorbed were the Moro's of the Southern Philippines, and the Philippines was and remains about 84% Catholic and 6% Muslim. Immigration mainly serves to boost the ranks of Catholics in America as a result.

 

Muslims remain at a small level, it will take a few generations to even reach the level and influence that religious Jews enjoy. Right now roughly half of America's Muslims belong to the varios Black Muslim, what a traditional would call Islamic cults. But with the society changing over the past century with President Obama being the ultimate example the fury at the white man which spawned the creation of the black Islamic cults is losing it basis.

 

Churches are also closing here. As the survey suggest, mostly from the liberal leaning socalled mainline Protestant denominations. Catholic Churches are consalidating because of losses where Latin immigrants are not living and a shortage of people willing to be priest and nuns. If there is only one father traveling the circuit? And many evangelic churches are losing independent status as they become the cell groups of the single megachurch.

[Rooster_DAR]

one who claimed to believe in God but doesn't totally submit to God's will, are many in this world

 

 

 

if such individuals exist, that is very few of them. generally people seek satisfy own flesh, or self centered. if not so, the world won't be fully filled with hurting people by others selfish actions. No such a person reach the perfection that consider others 24/7. One person can do good things based on wrong motives, such as fame, good name.....

 

 

Huh?

 

I'm at a complete loss of words.

[JamesM]

Huh?

 

I'm at a complete loss of words.

 

 

Actually...you weren't. In fact, you used seven words to tell us you were at a loss for words.

 

Go figure.

[Moose]

That isn't even close to what I was talking about. It is you that seems to struggle with context, if not merely the meaning of words.

 

In relation to what I was talking about, it makes none whatsoever.

 

Cheers,

D.

I don't think so:

 

The original text is as follows:

 

γενεά

 

or:

 

genea

 

(ghen-eh-ah')

 

a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons): - age, generation, nation, time

[Mahatma]

People keep bringing up education, but I disagree at least in my case.

 

From the ages of around 8 to 17, I would have considered myself agnostic. I believed this way mostly out of "disgust" (as someone perfectly put on page one) for Christianity.

 

Midway through age 17, I decided that just condemning religion because of the way I viewed religious people was not the best of ideas. This came through education.

 

Then I began to research world religions and became much more religious, especially now in college.

[fral945]

People keep bringing up education, but I disagree at least in my case.

 

From the ages of around 8 to 17, I would have considered myself agnostic. I believed this way mostly out of "disgust" (as someone perfectly put on page one) for Christianity.

 

Midway through age 17, I decided that just condemning religion because of the way I viewed religious people was not the best of ideas. This came through education.

 

Then I began to research world religions and became much more religious, especially now in college.

 

You are likely an anomaly.

 

From what I have read, the worldwide statistical data shows an inverse proportionality between education and religiosity (basically saying that as people become more educated they also become less religious or irreligious). This is true in nearly every country and on every continent (with the major exception being the United States). There are other factors, obviously, but the correlation is significant and hard to ignore.

 

Even looking at the U.S., anyone who has ever lived in or near a big city and in a small town (like I have) can observe differences in religiosity. I’ve noticed that the people in larger cities (which tend to attract a large proportion of educated, college degreed people to work) tend to be far less religious (or irreligious) than the people in small towns and cities (where a larger percentage of the population generally don’t have much more than a high school diploma).

[Mahatma]

You are likely an anomaly.

 

From what I have read, the worldwide statistical data shows an inverse proportionality between education and religiosity (basically saying that as people become more educated they also become less religious or irreligious). This is true in nearly every country and on every continent (with the major exception being the United States). There are other factors, obviously, but the correlation is significant and hard to ignore.

 

Even looking at the U.S., anyone who has ever lived in or near a big city and in a small town (like I have) can observe differences in religiosity. I’ve noticed that the people in larger cities (which tend to attract a large proportion of educated, college degreed people to work) tend to be far less religious (or irreligious) than the people in small towns and cities (where a larger percentage of the population generally don’t have much more than a high school diploma).

 

Well what you say is most certainly true. Where you find more educated people, the general trend is they are less religious.

 

However I think just education alone is not the problem. Possibly wealth?

[fral945]

However I think just education alone is not the problem. Possibly wealth?

 

Possibly, but the United States is the wealthiest nation there is yet still maintains a much higher percentage of religious adherants than comparable wealthy countries.

 

I think it boils down to control. The less people feel in control of themselves and their lives, the more likely they will turn to religion. Education, the type of political system, social policies, wealth, etc. all play a role in how much people feel in control of their lives. For myself, I became less religious the more educated I became. Becoming more educated made me realize that many of the things I thought I couldn't control before were within my control.

 

As another example, in countries with more socialist policies and safety nets to protect the poor (i.e., Scandinavian countries) there tend to be the highest levels of atheists and agnostics. OTOH, the U.S. (which would be the capitalist counterpart) has fewer safety nets and social policies protecting everyone and consequently more religious adherants.

 

This makes sense when you think about it because when you have safety nets and don't have to worry how you are going to put food on the table or find shelter you tend not to look for something to help you control the situation. The government is your "God", so to speak.

[Mahatma]

Possibly, but the United States is the wealthiest nation there is yet still maintains a much higher percentage of religious adherants than comparable wealthy countries.

 

I think it boils down to control. The less people feel in control of themselves and their lives, the more likely they will turn to religion. Education, the type of political system, social policies, wealth, etc. all play a role in how much people feel in control of their lives. For myself, I became less religious the more educated I became. Becoming more educated made me realize that many of the things I thought I couldn't control before were within my control.

 

As another example, in countries with more socialist policies and safety nets to protect the poor (i.e., Scandinavian countries) there tend to be the highest levels of atheists and agnostics. OTOH, the U.S. (which would be the capitalist counterpart) has fewer safety nets and social policies protecting everyone and consequently more religious adherants.

 

This makes sense when you think about it because when you have safety nets and don't have to worry how you are going to put food on the table or find shelter you tend not to look for something to help you control the situation. The government is your "God", so to speak.

 

Great point. Just like how many deathly sick or old people "find" religion. Well they have nothing else to keep their hopes up. I agree.

 

However, I feel in total control of my life. My faith, however, does not say "god is in control" or anything like that. I do not think a god has a specific plan for me or he is testing me. Yet, I still have faith.

 

I think this thread intertwines with the others though.

 

Religion and faith are different... or even spirituality. I would say I have faith in a God, but I do not blindly believe it.

 

I also am aware of the possibility that there is no god.

 

If a god did exist, or even something higher, how dare we believe we can understand it with our brains?

[Rooster_DAR]

I think it boils down to control. The less people feel in control of themselves and their lives, the more likely they will turn to religion.

 

It's funny you mention that, I've been contemplating this idea for a long time. Many of the people I know that are religious or christian, seem to have many things in common such as chaos, mental or emotional problems, or struggles with addiction.

 

That's not to say if your religious you have these traits, it's just seems that many people turn to religion to bring a stability back to their lives. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why religion has been so persistent, it's a comfort zone or alternative to finding a reasoning for existence.

[Rooster_DAR]

I would say I have faith in a God, but I do not blindly believe it.

 

You do know this a bit of a contradiction?

[fral945]

It's funny you mention that, I've been contemplating this idea for a long time. Many of the people I know that are religious or christian, seem to have many things in common such as chaos, mental or emotional problems, or struggles with addiction.

 

That's been my observation over the years as well. I would say almost without fail the type you described tend to be the most religious. But again, those with chaotic lives, mental and/or emotional problems, and addictions all have a lack of control of their lives in some way.

 

That's not to say if your religious you have these traits, it's just seems that many people turn to religion to bring a stability back to their lives. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why religion has been so persistent, it's a comfort zone or alternative to finding a reasoning for existence.

 

Agreed. And that is why I don't think it will ever go away, either. Comfort and security are two of the most basic instincts and desires a human being has. People will always be looking for ways to feel comfortable or more secure, and religion is one way of providing that.

[a4a]

one who claimed to believe in God but doesn't totally submit to God's will, are many in this world

 

 

 

if such individuals exist, that is very few of them. generally people seek satisfy own flesh, or self centered. if not so, the world won't be fully filled with hurting people by others selfish actions. No such a person reach the perfection that consider others 24/7. One person can do good things based on wrong motives, such as fame, good name.....

 

I believe many have been harmed in the name of various religions throughout history and in this day.

 

Many selfless non religious individuals certainly do exist.

 

And why would people that don't believe in a heaven or hell - 40 virgins - or whatever want to be "selfless"?

 

I have to wonder if religious people only do kind acts at times to avoid their hell or get point for the entrance into their heaven.

 

Anywho... I got to get back to my godless selfless acts of kindness.

[wuggle]

Comfort and security are two of the most basic instincts and desires a human being has. People will always be looking for ways to feel comfortable or more secure, and religion is one way of providing that.

 

I also think that a sense of community and group membership feature very highly in promoting religion. The need to 'belong' to a social group has always been a very strong factor in promoting belief systems. People need to 'fit in' and this stops them applying common sense and challenging the beliefs they were brought up with and still find all around them. IMO

[taiko]

It's funny you mention that, I've been contemplating this idea for a long time. Many of the people I know that are religious or christian, seem to have many things in common such as chaos, mental or emotional problems, or struggles with addiction.

 

That's not to say if your religious you have these traits, it's just seems that many people turn to religion to bring a stability back to their lives. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why religion has been so persistent, it's a comfort zone or alternative to finding a reasoning for existence.

 

Or perhaps we are more comfortable talking about it then those who find relief in other ways. The two largest faiths tell their followers to go out and if we have that story we tend to use it. It can be more effective then digging a well in New York.

[disgracian]

I don't think so:

 

The original text is as follows:

 

γενεά

 

or:

 

genea

 

(ghen-eh-ah')

 

a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons): - age, generation, nation, time

Are we even having the same discussion? What on earth does this have to do with my point that prophecy is so vague and subjective that all generations can (albeit unsuccessfully) apply it to current events?

 

Let me reiterate: hundreds of years from now, long after you and I are gone, there will be people re-interpreting prophecy to whatever is happening at the time, and conclude that they are living in the last days, just like everybody that has come before them. They will be just as wrong as you are right now.

 

Cheers,

D.

[D-Lish]

Possibly, but the United States is the wealthiest nation there is yet still maintains a much higher percentage of religious adherants than comparable wealthy countries.

 

 

Actually- it's not the wealthiest nation there is, I think it ranks 8th just before Ireland.

 

Liechtenstein is the richest nation in the world when we are talking GDP.

No, I'm not kidding, not even about Ireland.

 

In the States it's about dispersement. There is a huge divide between the rich and the poor. The lower middle class is much poorer, and the upper middle class is falling in this economy. This is making the divide between the very rich and very poor much greater.

 

I think you'll find in times of economic crisis that religiousity will increase everywhere.

 

I think that being educated DOES make one less likely to be religious. Mostly because the academic process trains a person to really dig into decisions through research, research and more research.

 

Conversely, being less likely to be religious, does not mean the same thing as being an atheist. I think it just means an educated person is less likely to accept doctrine.

[Lovelybird]

I think that being educated DOES make one less likely to be religious. Mostly because the academic process trains a person to really dig into decisions through research, research and more research.

.

Can more research shape genuine excellent characters, with a loving kind heart? can more research teach one how to have a healthy love life? or more research can solve more difficult issues about adultery, cheating and character flaws ? If so American (Cannada aslo) is so advanced in science and tech, and people in it should be the most happy people in the world because they make wise decisions through research, research, and more research

[disgracian]

LB, research the phrase "comparing apples to oranges" for a description of what you're trying to do here.

 

Can religion cure disease or help us learn more about the world we live in? No. Has religion advanced society in any way over the last thousand years? No. But education definitely has.

 

Education is not limited to scientific research either: it's the process by which we weed out all forms of ignorance. The kind of ignorance that allows racism, misogyny and other forms of irrational hatred to flourish (often with religious support).

 

The way you constantly chime in with derogatory little comments like this about anything that isn't your religion, one gets the impression that you won't be happy until humanity is back to living in caves, just as long as we have our Bibles (which, thanks to lack of education, we'll all be too illiterate to even read).

 

Cheers,

D.

[Lovelybird]

disgracian

 

That is what those posters did (connect education to faith), so I play by their mindset along, and in the end it is "apple compare to orange".

 

I wasn't derogatory, I am just honest, and that is hard for many to accept. I am honest to my own weakness, so I can see others as well.

 

I am not against education, I encourage one to get more as long as he doesn't get puffed up by that. cause Pride lead one to fall

[D-Lish]

Can more research shape genuine excellent characters, with a loving kind heart? can more research teach one how to have a healthy love life? or more research can solve more difficult issues about adultery, cheating and character flaws ? If so American (Cannada aslo) is so advanced in science and tech, and people in it should be the most happy people in the world because they make wise decisions through research, research, and more research

 

Can research contribute to making you a better person? YES, of course it can. Understanding both sides of the coin could prevent wars.... could it not?

 

How in the heck have you come to your personal conclusions if you have never read anything? You've read your bible right? You follow what you derive from it, right? That, my dear, is called research. You seem to believe YOUR research makes you a better person... No?

 

Or is it that only people that believe in the same things you do benefit from researching the same things you do.

 

Everytime you make a quote or make a statement, it's research you've done.

[knaveman]

I find this whole thing absolutely humorous, because this year I found the faith and religion for the first time in my life.

[disgracian]

That is what those posters did (connect education to faith), so I play by their mindset along, and in the end it is "apple compare to orange".

The difference is that there is a connection between faith and education, and there are studies that prove it. What you did was make a nonsensical comparison in yet another vacuous attempt to denigrate anything that isn't your particular brand of superstition. In fact, the only part of your post that intersects with reality is actually an argument against what you're saying; not for it. Sciences such as sociology and psychology have spent a lot of time researching behaviour such as altruism and why it's a good idea. So yes, research can help people become better ethically.

I wasn't derogatory, I am just honest, and that is hard for many to accept. I am honest to my own weakness, so I can see others as well.

Honest or not, it is still derogatory.

I am not against education, I encourage one to get more as long as he doesn't get puffed up by that. cause Pride lead one to fall

It's fine to say that now but I've never once seen you stand up for education and hardly ever say any positive things at all about anything other than your religion.

 

Cheers,

D.

[fral945]

In the States it's about dispersement. There is a huge divide between the rich and the poor. The lower middle class is much poorer, and the upper middle class is falling in this economy. This is making the divide between the very rich and very poor much greater.

 

I agree. That is why I cited the example of safety nets in socialist vs. capitalist countries. There is not as large a disparity between rich and poor in other rich (but more socialist) countries. The poor in more socialist countries on a comparable level to the U.S. have many more government support programs to fall back on. Here in the States, you don't have as much, and have to rely on the generosity of family or individuals (and many times a church) more so when you come into hard times.

 

I think that is one factor that make the poor in the US more likely to look to a God or religion and account for the disparity in religiosity.