Faith versus Religion

[LovieDove24]

No doubt many people here on LS are anti-religious. I can certainly understand why this would be: religion is man made and certainly many wars have been fought over it and much blood has been shed in its "honor." Do we even need to mention the altar boys???

 

Anyways, my question is this though: For those of you who say "Religion will ruin you" and feel that "Religious people are idiots," do you feel this way also about people who don't affiliate themselves with religion at all and just have a plain-and-simple faith in God?

 

For example, say someone quietly prays alone at home every night to "God" as he or she understands Him (or her, or it). Without ever attending a day of church in their life, they are not technically "religious" as many people would like to assume because they do not belong to a set religion.

 

So for those of you who are devoutly against "religious people," are you also anti-faith? And if so, do you still believe in other faith based things like self-fulfilling prophecies and karma--both of which can't be proved scientifically, but rather are beliefs that are held?

 

I'm very curious with what you all have to say about this. I hope I made sense.

[samsungxoxo]

So for those of you who are devoutly against "religious people," are you also anti-faith? And if so, do you still believe in other faith based things like self-fulfilling prophecies and karma--both of which can't be proved scientifically, but rather are beliefs that are held?

 

I'm very curious with what you all have to say about this. I hope I made sense.

 

A simple way to explain a chain of events and why it happens is the following. You come late for you job and obviously you will get fired same as if you don't study for an exam then you'll fail it (unless you're a prodigy with a super high IQ level). As for self-fullfilling profecies I'll give that as pure considence, nothing more. Say you had a class of highly qualified students but you tell them that they are dumb. Ok so it may bring their self-esteem down but they're the ones believing what you told them. Say if they failed the class, basically they either gave up to early or weren't trying harder. You can't control people's progress nor responses.

 

As for karma and/punishment, only you can create that in your mind. So let's say you cheated on a SO and then you got cheated, was it karma? No, it just happened because the person obviously careless about your feelings. You didn't do anything to make the person cheat, like I stated you can't control the person's reaction nor their actions. In addition one seperate event has nothing to do with another.

[quankanne]

faith is the fuel, religion is the vehicle that takes you on the spiritual journey. That said, you don't necessarily need to take a particular vehicle on said journey because the faith propels you anyway.

 

my particular kind of faith tells me to let God sort it out. Suggesting to non-believers/atheists/gnostics/protestants they're going to hell because they aren't Catholic suggests that *I* know better than the Big Guy ... and every time I engage in a conversation with someone who believes other than I do, I hope that they're also of the "live and let live" persuasion.

[blind_otter]

I have been affiliated with various religious teachings in my life, from Catholocism to Buddhism to even ancestor and nature worship. I've even read parts of the Bhagavad Gita. Through every evolution of my understanding of divinity and spirituality, I have continued to have faith in a higher power, though I do not believe that my faith alone will lead to any kind of salvation; I am convinced that it is action rather than thought that provides the basis for enriching the soul.

 

So, while I may shrug off the boundaries as dictated in traditional theologies, I am a strong believer in having faith - trusting that everything is as it should be, no matter how difficult it may be to wrap my mind around certain circumstances.

[Trialbyfire]

I grew up with organized religion, converted to a different religion when married and now don't have any respect for organized religion...period, therefore, I'm agnostic.

 

This doesn't mean that people who believe are fools or idiots. This is their belief so I can respect that.

 

What I can't respect is having religion crammed down my throat with the understanding that I will go to Hell, if I don't believe. Also, the concept of original sin just pissed me off to no end. It's ridiculous when applied to new born infants who are the most innocent, beautiful and precious gifts to mankind.

 

If God ever existed or exists now and really is compassionate, he would be crying rivers of tears over how people in power within organized religions, have bastardized his intent so that it's wrought so many of the worst attrocities, this Earth has ever known.

 

As for faith, one can have faith in anything they want to, if it gives them something to anchor to.

 

More than anything, I've moved towards spirituality, rather than blind faith and even this, I keep moving in and out of, wanting to believe, having difficulty doing so. And no, I'm not looking for guidance, thank-you kindly.

[Isolde]

I'm not against either religion or faith.

 

I'm weird. I don't belong to an organized religion and don't attend services, but I agree with many of the core values of Christianity. I'm perfectly fine not having proof that God exists; I believe anyway.

 

Intolerance sucks, be it from religious or nonreligious people.

[samsungxoxo]

I guess my dream, rather ambition is becoming a checkers champion and competing in the tournaments may count as a deep wish (faith if possible). Only difference is that instead of praying and saying how I wish to become a champ at it, I'm gonna make it happen by buying books on it and keep on practicing it until I get so good enough to finally compete.

 

See if you really want to happen then make it happen, don't just keep on wishing.

[Lovelybird]

Jesus Christ said that "God will give those who worship Him in spirit and truth the fourtain of life", and that fourtain of life will spring out this person's deepest heart, whatever he says and does will show the good fruits of Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit brings life, joy, peace, patience, kindness....you name it, all good things that one can imagine

 

Even in a religious group, even a person goes to church each Sunday, if without this fountain of life (spiritually born again, and totally surrender to God), his life and words do not show life and good fruits. Its death.

 

A religious person can be so wrong if he doesn't totally surrender to God, but his ego and pride and lust rules in his deepest heart, the religion can become a viecle to destruction. A true religion isn't about "if you enter certain group, then you are safe", it is about to give up your own ego, pride, selfishness each day and totally surrender to God and way of God, and this lead to LIFE

 

People without fountain of life are walking in darkness. seeking happiness but found despair; seeking selfish lusts, but end in emptiness; seeking glorify own ego, but end up being humiliated. Do you ever read the Ecclesiastes? the author had power, money, beauty, but he found vanity in all of these, and at the end, he concluded that only when one is obediant to God, his soul can be satisfied, when one's soul is satisfied, the world is different. I've seen very successful person whose life without God, it is empty, prideful, and despair, but this is what most people chase after: power and money and glorify self

[knaveman]

You know what gets me? When religions shove faith and religion down your throat. Believe or go to hell. Also, when atheists shove anti-religion down your throat. If you believe your an idiot.

 

Why do we need to understand everyone elses's faith in order to justify our own?

[D-Lish]

Having faith doesn't have to be religious based. I think the most important thing in life is to have faith in yourself.

 

I don't care what other people believe in as long as they have done their research and feel good about their choices in life.

 

I have been told as an Atheist that I am going to hell. People that don't even know me have told me so. That's just arrogant. It would also be arrogant for me to tell someone else they are stupid or naive for believing in something different than me.

 

For some reason, when a religious person tries to convert you to their own belief system, people dismiss it as them "meaning well"... When the roles are reversed, it's not seen as meaning well, it's viewed as intrusive.

 

What really makes me angry is when people who have never even researched my side of the coin, go out of their way to convince me I am wrong.

[Lovelybird]

every believer experienced your side of world, before they were converted. for them they know both sides of coin. I know the difference of the two. Life with God is wonderful

 

 

 

 

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[samsungxoxo]

Having faith doesn't have to be religious based. I think the most important thing in life is to have faith in yourself.

 

True to which that is called either self-esteem or self-confidence. Kinda like when are coming to take an exam, I'm sure that you don't go entering the room waiting to fail it, you are there with your highest expectations (that you'll ace it).

[wuggle]

I was brought up catholic and until the age of about 14 sort of accepted this (even though throughout my childhood I did struggle to come to terms with the inconsistencies in the religion).

 

When I became old enough to question this belief seriously I started reading about other religions, faiths etc. I read all the books I could, on Buddhism, Hinduism, re-read the bible. I saw what I thought were 'elements' of truth in each of these religions and for a while sort of believed in god but not in any faith system, just picked bits from each.

 

Later in life, I finally realised that my 'grasping' to a belief in god was just a result of my upbringing, I tried to analyse all the beliefs I had in a common sense, logical manner. I realised then that the reason I was struggling with the concepts of most religions (eg catholicism, but not limited) was not a lack of understanding on my part but the fact that they really didn't make any sense. A virgin birth to explain the birth of jesus who is actaully god and his own father and a ghost at the same time ? the 'body' of christ in a piece of bread ? .

 

When I applied all I knew about the world, and all my common sense and all that I had read the only thing that makes any sense to me is that there is no god, the 'theory' of evolution DOES totally explain in a common sense, VERIFYABLE way how we came to be. It is the only 'belief' system that doesn't force me to suspend my common sense and rely on blind 'Faith' (a suspension of intellect IMO).

 

All that being said, I do not have a problem with religious people, I hope that they will eventually find thier own answers and can accept that people will reach different conclusions to my own. I sort of 'hope' that they see through what I consider untruths , but if they don't I can accept that.

 

Re the difference between organised religion and a belief in god not supported by a formalised belief system, generally I prefer the latter. I would rather someone believe in God under thier own terms and understandings (even if I dont) than just blindly accept without question the dogmas and explanations of a formalised religion

 

I have met lovely people in all camps, athiests, catholics, muslims, agnostics etc. And I have met total bas**rds in all camps as well. People can use religion or lack of to justify thier actions but at the end of the day all are responsible for thier ownactions and interactions.

[quankanne]

All that being said, I do not have a problem with religious people, I hope that they will eventually find their own answers and can accept that people will reach different conclusions to my own. I sort of 'hope' that they see through what I consider untruths , but if they don't I can accept that.

 

thanks, wug ... this is how I feel, too, that everyone needs to figure out the search for themselves, though of course I'm hoping it yields God for them!

[wuggle]

Vive la difference (I never passed my French exam at school but I'm sure you get the point)

[Rooster_DAR]

You know what gets me? When religions shove faith and religion down your throat. Believe or go to hell. Also, when atheists shove anti-religion down your throat. If you believe your an idiot.

 

Why do we need to understand everyone elses's faith in order to justify our own?

 

Good point here!

 

I think it's important to refrain from making derogatory statements regarding either side, where all in this ride together so we need to continue our search for understanding by exercising restraint and discipline.

 

Cheers!

[mental_traveller]

No doubt many people here on LS are anti-religious. I can certainly understand why this would be: religion is man made and certainly many wars have been fought over it and much blood has been shed in its "honor." Do we even need to mention the altar boys???

 

Anyways, my question is this though: For those of you who say "Religion will ruin you" and feel that "Religious people are idiots," do you feel this way also about people who don't affiliate themselves with religion at all and just have a plain-and-simple faith in God?

 

For example, say someone quietly prays alone at home every night to "God" as he or she understands Him (or her, or it). Without ever attending a day of church in their life, they are not technically "religious" as many people would like to assume because they do not belong to a set religion.

 

So for those of you who are devoutly against "religious people," are you also anti-faith? And if so, do you still believe in other faith based things like self-fulfilling prophecies and karma--both of which can't be proved scientifically, but rather are beliefs that are held?

 

I'm very curious with what you all have to say about this. I hope I made sense.

 

I'm not "against" religion or religious people, unless it's the fundamentalist type who try to impose their views on others or society. I just view it in the same way I view karma, astrology, predestination etc i.e. a belief that has no credible evidence to support it, and that is held because people *want* it to be true or "feel it in their bones" rather than because there is decent factual evidence to back it up. I mean I hardly ever hear someone say "well, after looking at the evidence I think it's likely god exists - but I could be wrong".

 

A few centuries ago the vast majority of people believed the world was flat. There was no real evidence to support this, at least not to support believing it with such certainty. Even the naked eye can see that the horizon is not totally flat. The fact that ships disappear off the horizon is clear evidence that the world probably *wasn't* flat. Yet it was not until someone sailed all around the world that most people would even contemplate the idea of a round earth. The vast majority of flat-earthers believed it just because they "felt" it, or it was "common sense", they had a blind faith in it. In other words, people believed something fervently that was totally false, had several bits of evidence counting against it, solely based on faith, intuition & feeling. I view religious people as believing mostly for the same reasons, the difference is that you cannot prove something does not exist, so you will never be able to prove there is no god. Hence the "moment of truth" that happened with flat-earthism won't occur with religion. Still, it does show how long most of humanity can believe something for bogus reasons, how tenaciously they hold such a silly and incorrect view, how much they rely on unreliable faith & intuition, and how impervious they are to reasoning.

 

So my view on religion is basically that it's a thought error - relying too much on faith, intuition, and feeling, all of which are useful in some respects but have proven *incredibly unreliable* at judging truth in matters of knowledge of the exterior world. Evidence-based belief, on the other hand, has proven pretty reliable - that is why it is used in courts of law, scientific enquiry, and other fields where truth is very important.

 

I don't "hate" people who believe in astrology, or think they are "stupid" - I just think they are believing something with no evidence to support it, and am puzzled why they will not look at the history of belief vs evidence and pay more attention to facts & reasoning. I don't object to, and can support some of, the moral teachings and such of many religions, it's just the "god exists" aspect, and the related "do this because god said so" elements, that I object to.