Invited to same BBQ as MM and his W, WWYD?

[complicatedlife]

The "happiness factor" of his marriage is irrelevent. It doesn't matter if he believes it's happy or not...nor do I have any idea why you would try to tell him about the state of a relationship that you have absolutely no insight to at all. A relationship that you're bound to have a skewed viewpoint on, given your interest in him.

 

 

You still refuse to take ownership of your own life.

 

You still refuse to accept the responsibilty of your choice to continue on with him, regardless of his marriage, regardless of the stress it creates in your life...or perhaps because of the stress it creates in your life.

 

Quit trying to to tell him what his marriage is like...what he feels...and start focusing on fixing the darned problem already.

 

I couldn't agree more. All of this is exactly what I was thinking.

[2sunny]

there is nothing to say to anyone unless you are using the truth in addressing any of it.

 

the lies are what keeps everyone in this foggy state. if everyone involved knew the truth - then the real issues surface and are faced one way or the other.

 

the cover up is what you are trying to justify and that is why you are in a quandary. this is why it feels yucky. none of it would feel this way if you addressed the real issue... which is all the lies for the past four years. when the truth is out - the situation changes and then whatever becomes of it is out of your hands... any way you look at it, it is bound to be better than the state of limbo that you are constantly battling. i'm sure his W is battling it too.

 

his W will find out... it is just a matter of time.

 

all the info you continue to put forward are just excuses designed to keep you in exactly the same position you have known for 4+ years... how does it look exactly the same way when you look 20 years down the road? it will be the same for you if you don't decide to change it. there is no time like the present to make things better for yourself.

[foolish thoughts]

Hi all, This is my first post but I have been here a long time... Kismet Girl I am really moved by your story... but I think there is someone out there for you who will always put you first....Sometimes we sell ourselves short... we forget our own value...Quoting a famed Doctor (hehe) "We teach people how to treat us"

 

I know I am oversimplfying all the emotions, but I see you as a very strong individual and I think you deserve someone who thinks only of you and is not taking advantage of your kindness and strengths. I say move on.. There is so much out there for you but to get it you have to leave your comfort zone...

[KismetGirl]

I disagree. Look at your past four years. You've never REALLY broken up...well...maybe one time when you had NC for nearly a year. But what it has REALLY boiled down to is a "cooling off" period...followed sooner or later by a warming trend.

 

He's not blind...he can see the same trends that I have by reading your posts. He may say that this is to break things off...but what he really means is "for now". Your history proves this.

 

 

 

Oh yesa...I've faced the concept of losing the one I love forever. She wasn't even going to say "goodbye".

 

The difference here is that you've played this same game over and over and over for the last four years, KG. What possible unanswered questions could be left at this point?

 

If this were the first time that the two of you faced this...I might almost believe it, and might almost understand your viewpoint.

 

But it's not...which is why I don't buy into the whole thing that you're somehow "surprised" by anything that he's doing, or any actions that he's taken or not taken. And for this same reason, I don't buy into your "powerlessness" in all of this.

 

As I've said...you're sitting here waiting for the next cycle in the relationship for one reason only...because this is where you want to be.

 

You know this is just another cycle...just as he does.

 

And it will be...until something changes the equation. His wife, most likely.

 

I've never posted in your thread, but I have read a lot of your posts; never felt that I needed to add to what others have said.

 

In many ways, I have understood a lot of what you have said about how you feel because I've been where you are, and it's the kind of emotions that are going to be very difficult for someone to understand when one has never been in this kind of situation.

 

However....

 

I don't understand where you are coming from with the bolded part. Why does any of that matter? Whether he is happy or not, he is there. His happiness or unhappiness is obviously not a determining factor in the situation you are in with him, and frankly, that is on him to sort out on his own and/or with his spouse.

 

As far as the rest, I understand the need to vent specifically to him about how you have been and currently are feeling....what I don't understand is why this needs to be in a meeting as opposed to an email, or even a telephone conversation. I hear you on closure, but, hell, when it's done, it's done - no need to meet in person.

 

I am not going to speak about him and his feelings - I am going to speak solely on behalf of yours:

 

If you don't want to deal with this anymore, then don't. End it. But if you know that you are not ready to go - if your heart has not caught up to your head, all of this is semantics and this is just another cycle, as Owl said. And while your heart may not be ready, that doesn't mean that it is not time to end something that you know is not healthy for you - you have all the power and control here, trust me!! Try using some of that power and you will see the results.

 

It is also very beneficial to take breaks from LS - I enjoy reading here and contributing every once in awhile, but sometimes you need to hear your own voice without any interferance. I did this and it worked for me - I had too many different opinions, and so many of them sounded like sound advice, suggestions, and opinions. And if you believe in a higher power, now is the time to turn to that/Him/Her in your time of need. Hang in there, I know it's rough.

 

 

you're right, the part about his own unhappiness in his marriage isn't really my business per say, but I still get frustrated when I see someone do what he's doing and I guess it's my frustration just wanting him to see that this situation isn't just bad because he got caught, or because he upset people, but it's also bad because if he doesn't address his own reasons for doing this for so long it's never going to be resolved. But I guess I can't do it for him. Still want to yell at him though.

 

As for doing it in person vs. email, I have my reasons I guess. Part of the reason is that emails and the such are really impersonal and no amount of "crying" you do in an email is going to make anyone feel as bad as when they see you doing it right in front of them. And I know he feels bad. And I want hm to feel bad, and frankly I know he does when he sees me upset. It's easier for him to ignore it when it's not in front of him. Im sure everyone feels that, among everyone in the situation, my sadness and feelings are the most irrelevant because they're not part of the family equation, but they are important. So if seeing me be upset and cry sitting right in front of him will make him feel more like sh*t than so be it, he deserves it. It's not like he's coming over for "one last roll in the hay" as Owl said, because really he wouldn't have the nerve to both break up with me and try to f**k me all in the same sitting. He knows better. He's never tried it before. In fact, the previous times he's tried breaking things off with me its been over email or the phone or at work-in person. This is the first time he's suggested a meeting at my place, and I think its because he's trying to not be so impersonal about it because he knows I hated it before when he tried doing it over the phone. I told him in the past if he was going to do this, he owed it to me to look me in the eye when he did it no matter how uncomfortable it made him. Maybe if I insinuated one last roll in th hay was ok he'd go for it, but he'll never, ever try to suggest we go for one "last time". In fact we've never hooked up when we've broken up. Any "break up" day consisted generally of him telling me this and that about why we have to break up this time, I inevitably cry at some point even though I try not to, he makes attempts to hug me and kiss me and I just lay there with my back to him most of the time he's there, wanting to say a whole bunch of things and not really being able to say any of them, and wishing later I had said them. WHich I guess is what Im hoping I'll do this time around.

 

When Im upset I tend to go into defense mode, which involves being incredibly passive, and I'd like to try to not be so passive this time around, meaning actually say whats on my mind instead of just laying there and mumbling for him to get out when he's done speaking. Look....I know its over this time. Im sure I'll find out just how much he admitted or did not admit to his wife when I see him, and Im sure she probably gave some ultimatum this time around, and I'll get to say my piece, and hopefully I won't feel any regrets like I usually do about not letting it all out. All I can ask for I guess.

[fooled once]

Are you really just wanting to have sex with him one more time? To show him how much he is going to be missing out on? To try to prove you are the better woman for him?

 

I am so confused on all this.

 

He is married. He is going to remain married. That's it. At the end of the day, he goes home to his wife and kids. He has a life with them - a life that includes homework, making dinner, cleaning house, paying bills, kissing boo-boo's, making vacation plans, grocery shopping, and crawling into bed each night with his wife.

 

Whether he smooths it over with is wife or not is really not a concern for you unless you have already in your mind decided you will continue his affair until ............

 

Like someone else said, it really isn't your business what his marriage is like. You don't live in that house. You really have no idea what is going on. Your posts seem to imply that his wife is stupid for putting up with his affair. Honey, you are putting up with a once a week roll in the hay. You two do not vacation together, pay bills together, etc. Your "life" with him is how long on those days he swings by? An hour or two? You really don't know HIM. You can talk to him and all that, but that doesn't mean you know him -- you don't live with him to know his habits, his routine, his odd ball things he does.

 

God, I wish you could see that you sitting around, on pins and needles, waiting for him to tell you if he can continue his once a week visits is such a waste of YOUR life. YOUR life is passing you by. You are young. You have such a huge life in front of you yet you sit and wait for any crumbs he can offer you. I feel so sad for you.

 

I have been there. I look back now and am ashamed of myself, my behavior and think "dang it, how stupid was I". I am just glad my son (from my first marriage) was too young to see how pathetic his mother was over this MM.

 

Please, find the strength inside you to tell him "I AM DONE" and not listen to his excuses or think you need to tell him how hurt you have been. He doesn't care. If he does, he wouldn't put you on radio silence until he can sneak away and send you an email or text or make a quick call. He has left you HANGING for days.

 

I wish you luck and I hope you can finally move on with your life.

[wildsoul]

KG, I'm worried that after you try to make him feel guilty for disappointing you, stupid for staying in his marriage, and like he's missing out by not choosing you, that he's going to try to make YOU feel bad in return.

 

Have you thought about that?

 

If you put him on the defensive, he might strike back by reminding you that you're just his OW or otherwise explain why he's choosing her.

 

Similarly, if you have "one last time" sex with him, it's going to be a couple hours of turbo-charged hotness, but that could really send you into a tailspin of missing him and feeling broken hearted when the reality that it WAS the last time sinks in.

 

I don't want to see you get hurt more than you already are. It would be so much better if you can just gracefully tell him that YOU want to end it. Not to bash him, but to hold your head up high as you walk away.

[KismetGirl]

Are you really just wanting to have sex with him one more time? To show him how much he is going to be missing out on? To try to prove you are the better woman for him?

 

I am so confused on all this.

 

He is married. He is going to remain married. That's it. At the end of the day, he goes home to his wife and kids. He has a life with them - a life that includes homework, making dinner, cleaning house, paying bills, kissing boo-boo's, making vacation plans, grocery shopping, and crawling into bed each night with his wife.

 

Whether he smooths it over with is wife or not is really not a concern for you unless you have already in your mind decided you will continue his affair until ............

 

Like someone else said, it really isn't your business what his marriage is like. You don't live in that house. You really have no idea what is going on. Your posts seem to imply that his wife is stupid for putting up with his affair. Honey, you are putting up with a once a week roll in the hay. You two do not vacation together, pay bills together, etc. Your "life" with him is how long on those days he swings by? An hour or two? You really don't know HIM. You can talk to him and all that, but that doesn't mean you know him -- you don't live with him to know his habits, his routine, his odd ball things he does.

 

God, I wish you could see that you sitting around, on pins and needles, waiting for him to tell you if he can continue his once a week visits is such a waste of YOUR life. YOUR life is passing you by. You are young. You have such a huge life in front of you yet you sit and wait for any crumbs he can offer you. I feel so sad for you.

 

I have been there. I look back now and am ashamed of myself, my behavior and think "dang it, how stupid was I". I am just glad my son (from my first marriage) was too young to see how pathetic his mother was over this MM.

 

Please, find the strength inside you to tell him "I AM DONE" and not listen to his excuses or think you need to tell him how hurt you have been. He doesn't care. If he does, he wouldn't put you on radio silence until he can sneak away and send you an email or text or make a quick call. He has left you HANGING for days.

 

I wish you luck and I hope you can finally move on with your life.

 

Wait. What? No. Wait, maybe I didnt express something right. Thanks for the further mental images of all the family stuff I'll never share with him, I got that part though....

 

Anyway. Owl had said he probably wanted to come by in person for one last roll in the hay and I was saying that that is NOT generally the case for us when this happens. That he never tries to get some while in the same breath is breaking up with me, he wouldn't have the balls to try that nonsense. I was saying that the reason I wanted to see him in person was that there were some things about our 'relationship' that I thought I should finally say to him.

 

People were right about the part in convincing him to realize this or that about his marriage. I'll skip that part. But the part about expressing to him all the hurt I've felt over the years....I think he needs to hear that. I think I need to hear me saying it too, because Im usually far too passive and don't want to bother rocking the boat when it comes to him and then Im left feeling like I didn't say everything I wanted to say, and I feel things are "unfinished" and is probably part of the reason I end up getting back in touch with him. Because everytime we get back in touch its under the guise of "friends talking", and I genuinly accept that, it just never lasts as friends.

 

Anyway hope I cleared that up a bit.

[KismetGirl]

KG, I'm worried that after you try to make him feel guilty for disappointing you, stupid for staying in his marriage, and like he's missing out by not choosing you, that he's going to try to make YOU feel bad in return.

 

Have you thought about that?

 

If you put him on the defensive, he might strike back by reminding you that you're just his OW or otherwise explain why he's choosing her.

 

Similarly, if you have "one last time" sex with him, it's going to be a couple hours of turbo-charged hotness, but that could really send you into a tailspin of missing him and feeling broken hearted when the reality that it WAS the last time sinks in.

 

I don't want to see you get hurt more than you already are. It would be so much better if you can just gracefully tell him that YOU want to end it. Not to bash him, but to hold your head up high as you walk away.

 

Hey WS

 

No, Im not going for one more sex romp, that usually has no place in the break-up day. And I don't want to totally bash him and make him feel like a horrible person, I just want him to realize that, just as much as he feels bad that he's made his wife feel one way, that he's been making me feel another way for much longer than that.....I don't want to bash him, I just don't want to feel like I've been overly passive like I usually am. I WANT to be able to hold my head high which is why I feel like I need to get all this crap off my chest instead of just passively laying there with my back to him, crying while he tells me yet again that he's f**ked up and doesn't want to lose his kids and etc and etc and then I just nod and mumble for him to leave and that's it. You know?

 

And anyway, I DO know him well enough by now that even if I did get very blunt and brash with him, he won't say anything mean in return. he isn't like that. He'll be honest with me I think, and will respond to whichever points I bring up, but Im prepared for that.

[wildsoul]

I WANT to be able to hold my head high which is why I feel like I need to get all this crap off my chest instead of just passively laying there with my back to him, crying while he tells me yet again that he's f**ked up and doesn't want to lose his kids and etc and etc and then I just nod and mumble for him to leave and that's it. You know?

I get it now. Less about him, for a change.

 

I'm going to say something to you that one of my friends said to me last month, "Jump on into the singles pool with us other girls! The water's FINE...plus, we've got COCKTAILS!"

 

Seriously, KG. I've got as much or more stress than you do. And like you, my xSM gave me a feeling of having an anchor. But you know what? A) He was mostly the illusion of an anchor anyways. B) I was surprised how I actually feel pretty calm. C) Men are everywhere. Spring is a great time to be single. Embrace the unknown.

[whichwayisup]

I just want him to realize that, just as much as he feels bad that he's made his wife feel one way, that he's been making me feel another way for much longer than that.....

 

But Kis, you went along for this ride willingly for FOUR years. He more or less was honest (well, to a point) with you..He told you he wasn't leaving his wife, his kids. He never told you "I love you or I'm inlove with you", he didn't bash his wife, he said his marriage was good. YOU Knew he was married from DAY ONE..And going into the affair you knew everything, even went back to him once you found out he had ANOTHER child with his wife...And still continued the affair..

 

I think alot of your anger should be directed at yourself. Each of you bare half the responsibility for the affair, equally.

 

And will you be OK if you can't or won't answer your questions? Or if he just listens and says I'm sorry? I know you're looking for closure here, but you may not get exactly what you're hoping for.

[Island Girl]

What's different about this time though is, unlike the other times, I cant possibly see what excuse or whatever he could have told his wife that she could even WANT to make herself believe. Every other time he gave some semi-feasible excuse and she'd believe it (or want to believe it, whichever) and this time, though Im speculating as I havent really spoken to him yet and I guess I'll find out for sure this week when I see him, is that I don't think he has any way out of it this time. I wouldnt be surprised if she gave him some sort of ultimatum this time around, some sort of "if i ever catch you lying to me again I'll divorce you" deals, which I dont think he ever got before. She obviously didn't say she's going to divorce him this time or he wouldn't have sounded so calm on the phone today, but perhaps she threatened it.

 

Who cares who cares who cares ??!!!

 

This is a relationship that is NONE of your business.

 

Maybe she found out. Maybe she didn't.

Maybe she gave him an ultimatum. Maybe she didn't.

Who cares what she does or doesn't do?

You haven't cared about her while you have been sleeping with her husband.

You haven't cared about what is happening or not happening in his marriage before now.

You were perfectly content to accept whatever he told you was going on which was a sugar coated version of the truth.

Hence another baby.

 

So again - it is their relationship. Their business.

 

Or really tell him how hurt I've been every time I've had to deal with the rollercoasters of breaking up and getting back, or watching him go home to his wife, of wondering this and wondering that.

 

Apparently you haven't been that hurt.

 

You willingly jumped right back on that roller coaster the minute you were presented with the opportunity.

 

And not just once. Not just twice. How many times in four years?!!

 

You say "had to deal". But you didn't have to do anything.

You made the choice.

 

He offered you the seat on the roller coaster and you jumped right on.

Again.

And again.

And again.

 

You knew he was married.

You knew he wasn't going to leave his wife.

 

The affair ended.

Did you think it would go on forever?

And you were willing to accept so little for yourself until when?

Because you say you know it couldn't go on. You say you want more for yourself.

Yet you jump back into that again (and again and again).

 

It ended again. More pain and more misery for you.

 

Then, presented with the opportunity you jump back in.

 

What part of this relationship is fulfilling for you?

It seems you are just happy having someone to pine over and you are addicted to drama in your life.

 

What else could there be when you know it will never be more than it is?

And what it is happens to be crumbs for you with a lot of loneliness, empty special occasions, long nights always spent alone, no one to call upon when you need someone there for you, and lots and lots of heartache with lies.

 

You should kick yourself for crying over him.

And then crying more than once?

I am surprised you aren't so fed up with it all.

 

YOU should be you saying, "okay so you want to talk and I am going to get all this crap about your family and your kids and how you can't do this anymore, blah blah blah. Heard it before, don't need to hear it again. What hasn't been said is that I am done. I am threw with you. I am not cying or sad. I want more for my life and should have never settled for so little from you in the first place. I don't want to be friends. Leave me alone. Good bye."

 

Because really, no matter what you ask and what he tells you, you can never be sure it is the truth anyway.

 

So what does it matter?

[KismetGirl]

But Kis, you went along for this ride willingly for FOUR years. He more or less was honest (well, to a point) with you..He told you he wasn't leaving his wife, his kids. He never told you "I love you or I'm inlove with you", he didn't bash his wife, he said his marriage was good. YOU Knew he was married from DAY ONE..And going into the affair you knew everything, even went back to him once you found out he had ANOTHER child with his wife...And still continued the affair..

 

I think alot of your anger should be directed at yourself. Each of you bare half the responsibility for the affair, equally.

 

And will you be OK if you can't or won't answer your questions? Or if he just listens and says I'm sorry? I know you're looking for closure here, but you may not get exactly what you're hoping for.

 

That's true, I may not get the closure I want but I may as well try. Like I said to WS its not just about him, its about me feeling like everytime we've broken it off before I just passively sat there and cried and took it and thats it and then later i end up feeling mad at myself for not saying everything on my mind, and this time i'd like that to be different. So this way when its over, thats it, I dont feel that sense of "why didnt i tell him this or that" that i always end up feeling.

 

I dont want to yell at him, berate him, insult him , whatever. I simply want to tell him what I've never really verbalized to him before- I love you more than I've ever loved any man in my life, and there was a point when I would have dealt with any obstacle or amount of baggage just to try to have a normal relationship with you. I understand that you are doing what is probably the right thing by staying with W and raising your kids with her, but I just want to make sure you know that I won't ever forget you.

 

That's it. Simple. You'd think I'd have told him this before, but I havent. People like to point "well he's never told you he loves you", but Ive never told him i love him any either. He told me once he loved me and i asked him not to tell me things like that anymore. I told him once in a weird and indirect way that I loved him and never brought it up again. I hated talking about such emotions when i felt we couldnt do anything about them so I avoided it and now i feel like i want him to know exactly how I feel so I dont regret never discussing it anymore. I dont know if that makes sense to anyone here, but it matters to me.

 

Maybe in ten years he'll have a fight with his wife and think about me and remember that someone really loved him, was really IN love with him. How many times in your life does someone say that to you and really mean it? Not many. I hope one day I find someone else I feel this strongly about, and that I dont end up as one of those many, many people that just sort of settle for comfort, but who knows. At least I'll know that once in my life I told someone just how much they meant to me, even if in the end we aren't meant to be together. It might sound like bollocks to the rest of you, but its important to me that he understands what effect he has had on my life, on me, because Im not sure that he does and tht is partially my fault because I never really let him know.

 

I always appreciated that we weren't like so many other MM/OW "couples" who threw around "i love you's" and these exclamations of emotion when there was nothing in reality that could be DONE about them. But now that its over I think I want him to know, for my own closure and peace of mind. It's not in anger or resentment. It is a simple sharing of feelings that I've kept mostly inside me, I guess. That's all.

[BlueEyedGirl]

I am so annoyed by everyone bashing on KG. I have been reading her threads for a while and while she fell in love with the wrong man MOST people can't just move on even if logically they feel like they are supposed to.

 

It is also clear that MM has feelings for KG and would most likely chose her over the W but is not going to chose her over the W + kids + house + reputation + joint firends and family.

 

I am also annoyed by married people and people that have been cheated on that keep saying that his marriage is none of KG's business. Ummm, the day he decided to get involved with KG - he has made his marriage KG's business

 

Another newsflash guys: happilly married people don't get involved in long term affairs. It is as simple as that. All of you that have been cheated on can rationalize it till the cows come home (funny how you accuse KG of making excuses for MM's behaviour when you do the same thing - your W or H weren't happy with you or in love with you when they cheated so deal with it).

 

I hope KG gets her closure so that she can move on in her own time and on her own terms, not when bunch of internet people tell her to. Do you all think any of us would post threads like this and torture ourselves if we could just "let it go" and "move on". Geez.

[Island Girl]

I am so annoyed by everyone bashing on KG. I have been reading her threads for a while and while she fell in love with the wrong man MOST people can't just move on even if logically they feel like they are supposed to.

 

MOST people can't just move on even if they feel they are supposed to?

Where do you get your information? This is your own perception and not based on anything tangible.

 

It is also clear that MM has feelings for KG and would most likely chose her over the W but is not going to chose her over the W + kids + house + reputation + joint firends and family.

 

Exactly.

 

He is NOT going to choose her.

 

She will NEVER be a priority.

 

And doesn't she deserve that? Doesn't she deserve more?

And isn't there more out there for her that she will not find or have while she is wasting time with someone who is NOT ever going to give her what she deserves?

 

I am also annoyed by married people and people that have been cheated on that keep saying that his marriage is none of KG's business. Ummm, the day he decided to get involved with KG - he has made his marriage KG's business

 

Ummmmm. No. Wrong.

She still is not in that marriage.

Like it or not - a marriage is between TWO people. She is an outsider. And always will be.

The husband and wife will decide what happens in THEIR marriage.

She has no say in it. She has no place in it.

 

Sure she can let the cat out of the bag and cause more problems in that marriage. But it will still be between the husband and wife as to what happens after.

 

Another newsflash guys: happilly married people don't get involved in long term affairs. It is as simple as that. All of you that have been cheated on can rationalize it till the cows come home (funny how you accuse KG of making excuses for MM's behaviour when you do the same thing - your W or H weren't happy with you or in love with you when they cheated so deal with it).

 

Again this isn't entirely factual.

 

Sometimes people cheat because they aren't happy with themselves.

Sometimes it has nothing at all to do with the other person.

 

I hope KG gets her closure so that she can move on in her own time and on her own terms, not when bunch of internet people tell her to. Do you all think any of us would post threads like this and torture ourselves if we could just "let it go" and "move on". Geez.

 

And you don't think anyone should tell her that she is wasting her time?

She is going through pain and misery again and again and everyone is supposed to say what exactly?

It'll get better? That'd be a lie.

It'll work out, hang in there? That'd be a lie.

 

Sorry. I have a little more compassion for people. If I see someone headed for trauma and I know they can make a decision that will prevent it or lessen the damage then that is what I am going to say.

 

Whether they choose to listen or not is obviously completely up to them.

[jwi71]

. Like I said to WS its not just about him, its about me feeling like everytime we've broken it off before I just passively sat there and cried and took it and thats it and then later i end up feeling mad at myself for not saying everything on my mind, and this time i'd like that to be different. So this way when its over, thats it, I dont feel that sense of "why didnt i tell him this or that" that i always end up feeling.

 

You're making a big mistake in my view KG. I can't see how anything good can come of this because YOU STILL LOVE HIM. And because you LOVE him and ACCEPT his table scraps you CANNOT move on.

 

This only ends by either a) discovery or b) you decide that your LOVE is worth more than table scraps.

 

It seems more likely that IF (and its a big if) you actually tell him how you feel...he will simply twist it and manipulate you into continuing the A at a later date. I would expect to hear

"...if you had told me this sooner we wouldn't be here..."

Its crap.

 

I don't sense ANY anger in your posts. The anger that comes with the realization that you somehow, someway accept LESS than all a man can give and he PREYED upon it. And that's the anger the needs to come out for this to end.

 

Witness this...

 

I dont want to yell at him, berate him, insult him , whatever.

Followed by this

 

 

I simply want to tell him what I've never really verbalized to him before- I love you more than I've ever loved any man in my life, and there was a point when I would have dealt with any obstacle or amount of baggage just to try to have a normal relationship with you. I understand that you are doing what is probably the right thing by staying with W and raising your kids with her, but I just want to make sure you know that I won't ever forget you.

See KG? You are BOTH leaving the door open.

This meeting isn't about "closure" - its about how and when to reignite the A on HIS terms.

 

That's it. Simple. You'd think I'd have told him this before, but I havent. People like to point "well he's never told you he loves you", but Ive never told him i love him any either. He told me once he loved me and i asked him not to tell me things like that anymore. I told him once in a weird and indirect way that I loved him and never brought it up again. I hated talking about such emotions when i felt we couldnt do anything about them so I avoided it and now i feel like i want him to know exactly how I feel so I dont regret never discussing it anymore. I dont know if that makes sense to anyone here, but it matters to me.

And expect him to use it against you.

 

Maybe in ten years he'll have a fight with his wife and think about me and remember that someone really loved him, was really IN love with him. How many times in your life does someone say that to you and really mean it? Not many. I hope one day I find someone else I feel this strongly about, and that I dont end up as one of those many, many people that just sort of settle for comfort, but who knows. At least I'll know that once in my life I told someone just how much they meant to me, even if in the end we aren't meant to be together. It might sound like bollocks to the rest of you, but its important to me that he understands what effect he has had on my life, on me, because Im not sure that he does and tht is partially my fault because I never really let him know.

Who effin'g CARES!

 

I always appreciated that we weren't like so many other MM/OW "couples" who threw around "i love you's" and these exclamations of emotion when there was nothing in reality that could be DONE about them. But now that its over I think I want him to know, for my own closure and peace of mind. It's not in anger or resentment. It is a simple sharing of feelings that I've kept mostly inside me, I guess. That's all.

Last reiteration...that absence of self righteous anger over the years HE stole tells me you are NOT ready to move and will continue the A if given the chance.

 

A's, especially for you but perhaps in general, have an astronomical opportunity cost. And yours has a particularly high one. Stop paying the price. He ISN'T worth it.

[jwi71]

I am so annoyed by everyone bashing on KG.

 

Who's bashing KG?

This A is robbing KG of precious years of her life and denying her happiness and the only good outcome is to end it. I will not wave pom-poms and cheer "Go KG" when I think her actions lead her to more pain.

Sorry, but I do NOT support a drug addict by giving them more drugs.

It is also clear that MM has feelings for KG and would most likely chose her over the W but is not going to chose her over the W + kids + house + reputation + joint firends and family.

Just how is that clear? I too have been following this for almost a year and I see NOTHING that says he loves HER more than HIMSELF.

What I HAVE read is her MM will end it when HE needs to cool the A for fear of discovery or for HIS convenience (and to hell with KG).

 

I am also annoyed by married people and people that have been cheated on that keep saying that his marriage is none of KG's business. Ummm, the day he decided to get involved with KG - he has made his marriage KG's business

Ludicrous. His M is NONE of KG's business. HE did NOT interject her INTO the M. How do we know this? Because the W DOESN'T know. KG is a secret kept from the W. So no, she is not in their M. She is the her MM's life alright but NOT in the M. She is interfering in the M alright but she is NOT in the M. HOnestly, if it weren't KG he was cheating with it would be another.

 

Another newsflash guys: happilly married people don't get involved in long term affairs. It is as simple as that.

I disagree. There are certainly plenty of happyily married men cheating. They are called cake eaters. They have the W and house and kids and the saucy little tart on the side.

 

All of you that have been cheated on can rationalize it till the cows come home (funny how you accuse KG of making excuses for MM's behaviour when you do the same thing - your W or H weren't happy with you or in love with you when they cheated so deal with it).

Why attack the other posters who are trying to help KG?

What is your point and how does this help KG?

I see nothing beneficial here...only venom and bitterness.

 

I hope KG gets her closure so that she can move on in her own time and on her own terms, not when bunch of internet people tell her to. Do you all think any of us would post threads like this and torture ourselves if we could just "let it go" and "move on". Geez.

But that is what it basically boils down to isnt it? The A ends in discovery or KG walks. So, KG is here seeking a helping hand, a place to vent, a place to hear from others who have been there.

 

So KG is simply seeking "how to walk EASILY (with little or no pain)". Answer...not possible. It will hurt. She has more tears to cry and more weakness to overcome. And if she needs MY help, this anonymous internet poster will post what he thinks is best (and not necessarily what she wants to hear).

[BlueEyedGirl]

Let me address the W doesn't know part. MM has cheated on the W for 4 years which is half of their marriage. I do not understand how is it possible for the W not to sense that something is wrong unless they were not that close to begin with. And just in case she is the least perceptive and intuitive person on earth there were TWO occasions where there was evidence (the hair on the bed and e-mailed pictures). Any single of those pieces of evidence would be enough for most women to hold on and not let go until they can dig up more proof. Yet, the W chose to bury her head in the sand and escape reality because she is afraid of losing the MM - which now makes her a participant in this triangle. And yes, the MM is the most disgusting person in this story.

 

What planet are you on when you say that their M is none of KG's business? That is the most incredibly ridiculous statement made. There are now THREE people involved in this mess no matter how you look at it. MM invited the third person in their life. Perhaps MM and W are the main characters and KG has a supporting role, but she is still in the movie.

 

As for my comment that happy people don't cheat - let me ask you without the statistics and just by using common sense would it be natural to conclude that larger percantage of people that cheat are unhappy? I certainly think so. Say if around 70% cheat because they are unhappy in M and I am talking long term affairs here (I'm being VERY generous, I beleive that it's actually closer to 90% this again is talking about LT affairs) and other 30% cheat because they are sociopaths or want a sex mate (BTW those that want a sex mate generally chose many shorter term partners - I should know my grandfather was one and was very open about it). Given that we can't read MM's mind and given that he has been with KG for 4 years (first 2 without sex) and given that as far as KG knows he is not a serial cheater - it IS MUCH MORE LIKELY that he actually cheats because he is not happy in his M.

 

I just wish that married people that are OMG scared that their partner will cheat or has already cheated would actually take their blinders off and give up their binary way of thinking and face up to reality.

[KismetGirl]

MOST people can't just move on even if they feel they are supposed to?

Where do you get your information? This is your own perception and not based on anything tangible.

 

Well to be fair, most everything everyone says on here is purely opinion and not based on anything tangible but their own experiences...right? So unless anyone here starts quoting me statistics from their own case-studies performed in a research based format I'm going to have to guess everything here is pretty much personal perception and opinion....

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

He is NOT going to choose her.

 

She will NEVER be a priority.

 

And doesn't she deserve that? Doesn't she deserve more?

And isn't there more out there for her that she will not find or have while she is wasting time with someone who is NOT ever going to give her what she deserves?

 

Yes I do deserve more, but again, I think the point BEG was trying to make was that maybe if I had met him at the same time he had met his W, he would have chosen me over her to begin with. Not that it makes a tangible difference at this point in time, but sometimes it is nice to think that maybe, just maybe, even though the situation is horribly f**ked up , that after four years of being involved with someone, that they actually gave a sh*t about me.

 

 

 

Ummmmm. No. Wrong.

She still is not in that marriage.

Like it or not - a marriage is between TWO people. She is an outsider. And always will be.

The husband and wife will decide what happens in THEIR marriage.

She has no say in it. She has no place in it.

 

Sure she can let the cat out of the bag and cause more problems in that marriage. But it will still be between the husband and wife as to what happens after.

 

Ok....I am not "in" the marriage in the proper definition, and I don't have a real say what goes on in their marriage, but in a sort of balance between these two opinions, while I have no say on what goes on in their marriage, I think by placing me in the position that he has for quite so long, he has given me a right to at least know the state that his M is in- eg- how he really does feel about his wife, just how happy they really are. I think, after being involved for so long, I have a right to know the status of his other relationship since I obviously already know of its existence. So for all those that might say "his wife has a right to know about the status of the A", thats another argument, because she and I are in different positions, as I knew of her to begin with and not vice versa for obvious reasons. That doesn't mean I get any real input into the M- that's between the two of them. But I do have a right to know at the very least just how legitimate what he tells me about his marriage is. Right? he's already told me things about his marriage and therefor involved me to an extent. To know whether or not what he tells me is true is not stretching the boat that much.

 

Again this isn't entirely factual.

 

Sometimes people cheat because they aren't happy with themselves.

Sometimes it has nothing at all to do with the other person.

 

This is very true, but generally when they are unhappy with themselves they tend to get involved with and marry the person that is wrong for them as well. That doesn't make this other person a bad person, but perhaps not the right one for them. When you don't know yourself well enough to be happy, it's hard to pick the right partner, as is evidenced by the multitudes of MM's I see that say "my wife is a good person and a good mother and etc, so WHY can't I feel towards her like one should feel towards a wife?" It's probably because the MM himself was never happy or aware of what he wanted and married the wrong person. Again, as with everything else, just my opinion.

 

I see where both of you are coming from.

[KismetGirl]

I am so annoyed by everyone bashing on KG. I have been reading her threads for a while and while she fell in love with the wrong man MOST people can't just move on even if logically they feel like they are supposed to.

 

It is also clear that MM has feelings for KG and would most likely chose her over the W but is not going to chose her over the W + kids + house + reputation + joint firends and family.

 

I am also annoyed by married people and people that have been cheated on that keep saying that his marriage is none of KG's business. Ummm, the day he decided to get involved with KG - he has made his marriage KG's business

 

Another newsflash guys: happilly married people don't get involved in long term affairs. It is as simple as that. All of you that have been cheated on can rationalize it till the cows come home (funny how you accuse KG of making excuses for MM's behaviour when you do the same thing - your W or H weren't happy with you or in love with you when they cheated so deal with it).

 

I hope KG gets her closure so that she can move on in her own time and on her own terms, not when bunch of internet people tell her to. Do you all think any of us would post threads like this and torture ourselves if we could just "let it go" and "move on". Geez.

 

Thanks BEG. It's ok though. Everyone's got their own opinions I guess.

 

I also think he made certain things my business, if only because I have a right to know when he tells me something if its true or not. But who knows.

 

And I also don't think that people who get involved in one, long-term affair are the same as those who jump from sex-partner to sex-partner, short term affair to short-term affair, and I disagree when JW said if it wasnt me it would be someone else, but everyone is speculating in the end and any one of us could be wrong.

 

I appreciate the sentiment that he might have chosen me over her if she didn't also come with kids+house+the rest of life, but I guess its a two faced coin isn't it.....it's nice to know or think he might really have chosen me in the beginning, but I guess what really matters is what he does in the end, and at this point when you have KG on one side, and 3 little children who clamor for Daddy, big new house Daddy's worked so hard to buy, plethora of mutual friends and family, social perception, and just plain not wanting to hurt W who is a pretty good friend.....well, its plain which side has more weight on it, at least from a first glance. To pick me he'd have to be this super-selfish pr*ck who didn't care about family and he's not....he can be selfish, but he isn't quite as bad a monster as some people make him out to be. if he was he would've dumped them all a long time ago, right?

 

but youre right it is hard to move on....all advice is appreciated (well, most of it, once in a blue moon I get some insulting bulls*it, but that's neither here nor there). I get no pleasure out of this drama in my life, I dont understand why anyone insists on that. That's like going to some woman who gets beaten by her husband and instead of trying to understand, telling her "well too bad for you, go get beaten on some more, you must enjoy it". Pretty silly huh?

 

There are three sides to an affair, and no matter how much sympathy a person has in them, unless you are in EACH position (and I say that for myself included) of either a MM, a BS or an OW, you've no clue what each person really feels. So Im done with pointing fingers, of saying someone is just bitter or doesn't get what Im feeling , because maybe some do and maybe some dont. All I can do is take every view into account and make the best decision I can for me at any given moment. They have their opinions and trying to change them is like trying to pry a warm beer from an old drunk- just quite impossible and not really worth the effort.

 

But thanks anyway, it's still nice to see the occasional person who sort of sees things my way, even if my way isn't perfect ;-)

[Island Girl]

Well to be fair, most everything everyone says on here is purely opinion and not based on anything tangible but their own experiences...right? So unless anyone here starts quoting me statistics from their own case-studies performed in a research based format I'm going to have to guess everything here is pretty much personal perception and opinion....

 

Okay - as a point of reference just peruse LS.

 

For every dumpee that is finding it difficult to "let go" there is a dumper who already has.

 

To say that most people can't let go is just purely false.

 

Yes I do deserve more, but again, I think the point BEG was trying to make was that maybe if I had met him at the same time he had met his W, he would have chosen me over her to begin with. Not that it makes a tangible difference at this point in time, but sometimes it is nice to think that maybe, just maybe, even though the situation is horribly f**ked up , that after four years of being involved with someone, that they actually gave a sh*t about me.

 

For what ever reason it is important for you to believe this.

 

But the truth is if he really cared about you he would want you to have a happier existence. He would be unwilling to have you be a "dirty little secret".

 

The truth is there is no one he cares more about than himself. Everyone else is secondary to his wants and he isn't willing to make sacrifices for anyone.

 

This is selfish and heartless of course.

 

And yet as another poster observed you are not angry about this.

You do not even feel the righteous indignation that you should at this point.

 

You aren't angry at him for keeping you on the side while you have sacrificed YEARS of your life so that he could have his marriage and you on the side.

 

Ok....I am not "in" the marriage in the proper definition, and I don't have a real say what goes on in their marriage, but in a sort of balance between these two opinions, while I have no say on what goes on in their marriage, I think by placing me in the position that he has for quite so long, he has given me a right to at least know the state that his M is in- eg- how he really does feel about his wife, just how happy they really are. I think, after being involved for so long, I have a right to know the status of his other relationship since I obviously already know of its existence. So for all those that might say "his wife has a right to know about the status of the A", thats another argument, because she and I are in different positions, as I knew of her to begin with and not vice versa for obvious reasons. That doesn't mean I get any real input into the M- that's between the two of them. But I do have a right to know at the very least just how legitimate what he tells me about his marriage is. Right? he's already told me things about his marriage and therefor involved me to an extent. To know whether or not what he tells me is true is not stretching the boat that much.

 

Whether or not you have a right to know what really goes on between the two of them is irrelevant.

 

Because you will never REALLY know unless you sat down with the two of them.

 

You'll get his story. And I say story because it more than likely will NOT be the truth.

 

I'll use this analogy.

 

You have resigned from a job. But in the future you feel you may want to leave on a good note. So that in case there is an opportunity to come back, and you want to, the door will still be open to you.

When you are in your exit interview are you really going to tell the whole truth? Or are you going to make sure that what you share will not damage your ability to return?

 

So you will not get the truth. You'll get answers that still make the affair excusable. You'll get the information that he knows will not burn that bridge.

 

If he was to tell you he really does love his wife and always has. And that is the reason he stays and THAT is the reason there was yet another child brought into the world. What would that do? Would it cause you to never want to see him again?

So why would he tell you those kinds of things?

Isn't it much easier to string you along by saying how unhappy he is and how he is just "trapped"?

 

Ahhh yes. Because then he can have you thinking, "that poor guy" rather than 'I am getting the sh*t end of the stick in all of this every single time'!

 

He's pulled this number on you quite a bit already.

 

Isn't that why you want to tell him that you love him? So that he'll "really know" that someone did?

 

If you talked to his wife, I'm sure she'd think marrying him for better and worse, etc. and bearing his children was out of love.

I'm sure if you asked her she'd tell you when she tells him she loves him, she means it. And if he was telling the truth and you asked him he'd say he knows it.

 

This is very true, but generally when they are unhappy with themselves they tend to get involved with and marry the person that is wrong for them as well. That doesn't make this other person a bad person, but perhaps not the right one for them. When you don't know yourself well enough to be happy, it's hard to pick the right partner, as is evidenced by the multitudes of MM's I see that say "my wife is a good person and a good mother and etc, so WHY can't I feel towards her like one should feel towards a wife?" It's probably because the MM himself was never happy or aware of what he wanted and married the wrong person.

 

If this is the case there are ways to rectify the situation.

 

And those ways do not involve getting someone else stuck in a bad situation too while stringing them along and using them. All the while having security that they don't. A family while they do not nor will ever have as long as they continue in the mess as well.

 

Until that person figures their own crap out they should remain unavailable physically just as much as they are already unavailable emotionally, mentally, etc.

 

Right now you get moments of physicality and nothing else.

 

You don't get office parties, holidays, birthday celebrations, someone to hold you at night - all night if you want them to, holidays, vacations, or even a shoulder to cry on when you need one.

 

HE has all of those things AND another woman waiting on the sidelines so that if he wants to spend some of his extra time with her she is just there. Waiting.

 

I really, really hope you start to see how little you really get. How little he really gives you. And how much you have had to sacrifice to get that very very tiny little bit.

 

He knows how much you don't get.

Because he HAS it ALL (and then some).

 

He has no problem asking you to give up so much.

 

But he WON'T give it all up for you.

[OWoman]

KG I find this very disturbing:

 

As for doing it in person vs. email, I have my reasons I guess. Part of the reason is that emails and the such are really impersonal and no amount of "crying" you do in an email is going to make anyone feel as bad as when they see you doing it right in front of them. And I know he feels bad. And I want hm to feel bad, and frankly I know he does when he sees me upset. It's easier for him to ignore it when it's not in front of him. Im sure everyone feels that, among everyone in the situation, my sadness and feelings are the most irrelevant because they're not part of the family equation, but they are important. So if seeing me be upset and cry sitting right in front of him will make him feel more like sh*t than so be it, he deserves it

 

Rather than a mature, honest discussion for "closure" (whatever that is) it appears that your insistence on a face2face meeting is all about having the opportunity to manipulate! You WANT him to feel bad, and know that your crying will cause that, so you want him to see you cry. That, to my mind, ranks up there with toddler tantrums and kugels "persuading" their BF to buy them a new pair of shoes by offering him a BJ. If that's "the best you can hope for" in terms of relationship dynamics, you will never be able to maintain a healthy, adult relationship of equals with someone. If you cannot state, unequivocably and clamly, what it is you want / need with a reasonable expectation that it will be heard, and that you will in turn hear what is said to you and react in an adult manner to it, then you're not yet ready for a real adult relationship and should stick to the kind of game-playing, dishonest and manipulative masquerade you have with this MM or any other immature guy. It's simply not how Big People do things, and you can't expect to be let into the grown-ups room if you're going to behave like a child.

 

This "relationship" has been so toxic for you that you've lost all perspective on how normal people interact in a relationship. I hope you can recover that and not let this damage you for life.

[jwi71]

I also think he made certain things my business, if only because I have a right to know when he tells me something if its true or not. But who knows.

 

But you're not IN the M. You are only able to hear what HE claims is true. True, in your case, you do have more "validation" than just his word but it still comes down to...you are NOT there 24x7. You get only what he shares and its veracity is obviously in doubt. You are denied the happy times.

 

And I also don't think that people who get involved in one, long-term affair are the same as those who jump from sex-partner to sex-partner, short term affair to short-term affair, and I disagree when JW said if it wasnt me it would be someone else, but everyone is speculating in the end and any one of us could be wrong.

I didn't communicate clearly (it was like 2am or something - 3 year old had nightmare). Because your MM has NOT addressed his own character flaws he will cheat. You or Halle Berry or the Queen of Sheba. It just happened to be you. Its my opinion of course and I also predict he will find another. And this is NOT to denigrate you KG...he will simply go elsewhere when you, um, -er, "wake up". You know what I mean.

. To pick me he'd have to be this super-selfish pr*ck who didn't care about family and he's not....he can be selfish, but he isn't quite as bad a monster as some people make him out to be. if he was he would've dumped them all a long time ago, right?

Just the opposite KG. HE is a monster and a selfish prick precisely BECAUSE he won't leave. He strings you, his W and yes his kids along. All for his OWN needs.

 

Had he left he would simply be a man who divorced his W to be happy. And how can anyone fault him for that?

 

but youre right it is hard to move on....all advice is appreciated (well, most of it, once in a blue moon I get some insulting bulls*it, but that's neither here nor there). I get no pleasure out of this drama in my life, I dont understand why anyone insists on that. That's like going to some woman who gets beaten by her husband and instead of trying to understand, telling her "well too bad for you, go get beaten on some more, you must enjoy it". Pretty silly huh?

I can only intellectually understand this. I sincerely hope you decide that your life is worth more than what he CHOOSES to give you. Hey, I made the very same decision not too long ago so I know all about losing what appears to be everthing. And KG - its a choice. If you disregard everything else I have ever said believe that. Its a choice for HIM to make.

 

.... change them is like trying to pry a warm beer from an old drunk- just quite impossible and not really worth the effort.

Not being partial to warm beer (those Brits got it all wrong there)...it would be EASY to pry the warm beer from my hand. Hell, you can HAVE it....

[KismetGirl]

KG I find this very disturbing:

 

 

 

Rather than a mature, honest discussion for "closure" (whatever that is) it appears that your insistence on a face2face meeting is all about having the opportunity to manipulate! You WANT him to feel bad, and know that your crying will cause that, so you want him to see you cry. That, to my mind, ranks up there with toddler tantrums and kugels "persuading" their BF to buy them a new pair of shoes by offering him a BJ. If that's "the best you can hope for" in terms of relationship dynamics, you will never be able to maintain a healthy, adult relationship of equals with someone. If you cannot state, unequivocably and clamly, what it is you want / need with a reasonable expectation that it will be heard, and that you will in turn hear what is said to you and react in an adult manner to it, then you're not yet ready for a real adult relationship and should stick to the kind of game-playing, dishonest and manipulative masquerade you have with this MM or any other immature guy. It's simply not how Big People do things, and you can't expect to be let into the grown-ups room if you're going to behave like a child.

 

This "relationship" has been so toxic for you that you've lost all perspective on how normal people interact in a relationship. I hope you can recover that and not let this damage you for life.

 

Read the posts after this, I had a minute to think and spoke to a friend of mine on the best way to get my feelings across and decided calmly telling him whats on my mind is best, as opposed to how I might generally react with him which is getting very upset, passive, crying and not knowing what to say, which is not how I usually react to people and yes, I HAVE become so frustrated with him that I pathetically reduced to a point that when he'd break up with me I just wouldn't even know how to respond anymore and would be left feeling vulnerable and unfinished and hanging.

 

So anyway, yeah, read further posts.

 

And for all those people who for whatever reason dont sense any anger, I cant possibly see how. Ive had a million posts before that adequatly expressed my anger and frustration. I can't keep up a level of anger and intense fury at all times. Its exhausting. I alternate between angry and frusrtated and just plain out mentally tired. Im not here to be in whatever state of mind whoever reads a post thinks I should be in that time, so if in the five million posts I have on here I dont appear to be angry enough for you in any particular post, apologies. It changes around throughout the day, and sometimes I just dont care enough to write a long angry post, and sometimes I do, and sometimes I just want to lay down and close my eyes and not think anymore. Yeah.

[OWoman]

Read the posts after this, I had a minute to think and spoke to a friend of mine on the best way to get my feelings across and decided calmly telling him whats on my mind is best, as opposed to how I might generally react with him which is getting very upset, passive, crying and not knowing what to say, which is not how I usually react to people and yes, I HAVE become so frustrated with him that I pathetically reduced to a point that when he'd break up with me I just wouldn't even know how to respond anymore and would be left feeling vulnerable and unfinished and hanging.

 

I have read the subsequent posts. I quoted this one because it is the only one that addresses the point of why you have to meet face2face rather than just dumping him via email / text / whatever other asynchronous means. Nothing in any of the subsequent posts makes a case for f2f - in fact, if anything, it makes a case AGAINST f2f. If, given your past history, the likely dynamic is you will feel "upset, passive, crying and not knowing what to say" but you REALLY want to change things this time and say the things you're worrried you may leave unsaid, then the very best way to attain that is to craft an email, when you're rational and calm, and send it. You can take as long as you like in the crafting. You can hit send as soon as you feel it is polished enough. He will have to read it through without being able to interrupt you, distract you or cause you to flounder through subtle body language cues. In short, you will be guaranteed his full attention.

 

It's true you won't be able to convey the full impact of crying - your motivation for wanting to do it f2f - but if you really want to say what you need to, and really want to be heard... then f2f is NOT likely to be the way to go, given your ingrained dynamic.

 

But this meeting isn't about you breaking up with him, is it? You're not wanting to break up with him. You're opting for the passive position of being the (relunctant) dumpee. And you don't want to email him in case - just perhaps - he's not really going to break up with you after all, but is going to pull some magical rabbit out of a hat, and make it all better, just like that...

 

It's not going to happen, KG. Send him the mail, seize the initiative and change the dynamic - end things on your own terms and walk away with some dignity - or CHOOSE to remain a slave to your pattern. The power is yours. It's up to you whether you have the balls to use it.

[jwi71]

Let me address the W doesn't know part. MM has cheated on the W for 4 years which is half of their marriage. I do not understand how is it possible for the W not to sense that something is wrong unless they were not that close to begin with.

 

According to that, then all A's are known or suspected by the BS. And that simply isn't true. Most have NO idea the WS is cheating. And its not about "not being close"...its about the lies and deceit and the abuse of trust. At some point the "something is wrong" radar goes off...when is likely determined by how good a liar the WS is. Sorry, but that statement is horribly naive - and you should be thankful of that. It is an unwanted education.

 

And just in case she is the least perceptive and intuitive person on earth there were TWO occasions where there was evidence (the hair on the bed and e-mailed pictures). Any single of those pieces of evidence would be enough for most women to hold on and not let go until they can dig up more proof.

Apparently you are wrong as there is a whole forum dedicated to women who have been SHOCKED by their H's A. Again, to reiterate the above...WS are wonderful liars. Its all about manipulating and abusing trust. And its insanely powerful and effective. And again, be thankful that you cannot conceive this - it is horrible to learn.

 

Yet, the W chose to bury her head in the sand and escape reality because she is afraid of losing the MM - which now makes her a participant in this triangle.

I recall that her MM asked KG to not contact him for awhile until the heat died down. All the while he lied and gaslighted the W. So he concocted lies, tended the yard and was the perfect husband...all the while biding his time so he could return to the patiently waiting KG.

 

And the W is an unknowing participant. Her particiaption in HER M is not in dispute...KG's is.

And yes, the MM is the most disgusting person in this story

.

 

Agreed. Most MM and MW are.

 

What planet are you on when you say that their M is none of KG's business? That is the most incredibly ridiculous statement made. There are now THREE people involved in this mess no matter how you look at it. MM invited the third person in their life. Perhaps MM and W are the main characters and KG has a supporting role, but she is still in the movie.

The strongest argument I have for this is:

His children. Are you prepared to say that each of his children are in the M? Each child has a seperate and unique R with each parent. But it would NOT be true to say that each child, either seperately or in aggregate, are IN the M. They each and in aggregate hav R's with each parent (both as parents and indiviually) BUT ARE NOT IN THE M. Same with KG. And that is because M is between two people and ONLY two people. KG has an R with the MM and no one else. The realtionship is unique to HIM (and NOT his W).

 

Of course KG is involved in this mess. But she is NOT in their M. Its a subtle difference and I hope the children's R's helped you see my point.

 

As for my comment that happy people don't cheat - let me ask you without the statistics and just by using common sense would it be natural to conclude that larger percantage of people that cheat are unhappy?

Haha. I love it. "Lets not bring up stats" and then you promptly pull stats from thin air! Thats great. And, its tongue in cheek teasing BEG.

 

Given that we can't read MM's mind and given that he has been with KG for 4 years (first 2 without sex) and given that as far as KG knows he is not a serial cheater - it IS MUCH MORE LIKELY that he actually cheats because he is not happy in his M.

Lets just agree to disagree.

You are going to claim he stays only for the house and the image and the kids and NOT for his W. My rebuttal is...if he was unhappy he would leave. Its real freakin' simple. He made it clear to KG from day one he wasn't leaving. Why would he say that? I wonder....prolly because he IS happy at home.

 

I just wish that married people that are OMG scared that their partner will cheat or has already cheated would actually take their blinders off and give up their binary way of thinking and face up to reality.

WTF does this have to do with KG or this little TJ of ours?

Projecting perhaps?