What the hell is going on with this girl? I have no idea.

[Jack of Hearts]

Okay guys and gals I really need some advice with this one, and I apologize if it is a little long, but I’ll try to condense it.

 

I met a girl about a year ago through a mutual friend who works with her. I thought she was cute and fun to be around, but never tried to pursue her. She then became best friends with one of my best friends. So naturally she was around more often. No big deal, I still didn’t try to pursue her. We would talk on facebook a few times a week nothing too serious. Lo and behold I started liking her, but I did my best to play it cool which worked for a good while. Then things started getting weird.

 

We went to a show with a couple friends and ended up making out all over the place. I was fine with that because of what I knew of her. She loves to toss ‘em back and make out with guys. Again, no big deal, right? I knew I was nothing special because she’s just like that. We went out with friends a few times after that, not mentioning our episode and continued to just be cool with each other. I started liking her more, but I never let her or anybody else know about it. Again, I got to play it cool right? Well…

 

We went to another show and we had a great time drinkin’ and dancin’ and we of course started getting more friendly with each other. At one point in the night she gave me the “kiss me” look and I went in for it and she backed off. Okay, no big deal. She mentioned us being “friends” and I said I wasn’t her “friend” (because I not going to put myself into the friendzone if I can help it). Then she said that Friend A and Friend B told her that I “just looooove her”. I told her not to listen to them. Then I made a big mistake. I told her I was crazy about her and she looked at me like I was nuts. So, we grab a few more drinks, dance a bit more and end up making out anyway. I took her home, we start making out again, things get more heated and she stops. We had a semi conversation, but I can only remember a few lines of dialogue. Some of her commentary was: “Why do you like me?” (I didn’t answer this), “You don’t want to date me”, “I like that you’re not like other guys just trying to jump my bones.”, “I think you’re really attractive.” Yadda, yadda, yadda. We went out for drinks the next night with our friends and besides a few teasing jokes, we didn’t talk about what was going on between us. We continued to communicate regularly as before, with no reference to our situation. So then…

 

We all go to yet another show and she immediately starts warming up to me again. I recognize the game she’s playing and I play back a little bit. We have our drinks and have a great time. Later in the night I see her with some guy in the corner making out. Our friends and I just laugh (because we know she likes to make out with guys, and I know I’m nothing special, right). Even later in the night, she’s starts sucking on my ears and trying to kiss me and I’m backing her off because she was just too drunk. She says she wants to go outside to talk, so we go. She pulls me into a corner and starts sucking my face again. I back off and tell her that she’s drunk and I don’t want to take advantage of her. She comes out with “I love you”, I laugh “no you don’t”. She says “no really, I ..."- and starts kissing me again. Again, I stop her and tell her that she doesn’t know what she’s doing. Then she brings back the whole “Friend A and Friend B say that you…” I cut her off and say “look, they’re joking, don’t take them seriously.” She still wants to talk, but can’t coherently put two words together and I tell her we can talk when she’s sober. We go inside and the night ends without incident except for a few more attempts by her to play tonsil hockey with me.

 

After that we all go out the next weekend and relay to her what she did while hammered and joke about her habit of making out with guys while she’s drunk. But we still don’t get to have her “talk”, which I gather she never remembers wanting to have. This particular night she was the DD, so no drinking for her, no make out for me. No big deal. We still talk to each other through facebook like normal, yet no mention of our tendency to make out when tipsy.

 

So here I am, confused as hell because I know she likes to drink and make out with guys, not just me. I know she’s semi-dating some dude, but that doesn’t stop her from making out with other guys, including me. I know she is far from wanting a relationship with anyone and enjoys her freedom. I know her excuse for her behavior is “if I don’t remember it, it never happened” which is problematic in my opinion. I still like her, but am not pursing her. So a few things I need help with:

 

I would really like to have our “talk” because I think she thinks I’m chasing her or infatuated with her (which I’m not) and I think it makes her uncomfortable around me sometimes (when sober), but I don’t want to seem like it’s a big issue and come off as a creepy guy. I would just like some clarity and an opportunity to explain my intentions to her.

 

I know I lost a lot of appeal points when I told her I was crazy about her, but I would like to move on from that (again, this can be done by having our “talk”).

 

I just need her to know how I feel and that I don’t have any expectations with her, although I do like her and care about her. But I think that if I bring it up, it might come across in a wrong way.

 

It would have been easier if she just would have flat out rejected me, called me a nice guy-brother type and made herself clear, but she didn’t and it’s messing with my head.

 

Any advice? I’m sorry about the length, but any feedback would be helpful. Thanks.

[WTRanger]

My advice is to get as far away from her as possible. She's playing games, and unless you want to be a pawn then get away while you can. I'm in a similar position where this girl hasn't said anything good or bad about a potential next level between us and she agrees that we need to have "the talk" but that was almost 2 months ago. Anytime I bring it up, she backs away. Anytime she brings it up, she backs away when the time comes. She claims she needs time to think, but if we talk weeks later she'll have made zero progress.

 

Finally I figured it wasn't worth the head games and just stopped playing. If she wants to, she knows how to contact me. I'm looking for someone who can actually be open and not run away anytime there might be something to confront. Part of a good friendship or a relationship is an open line of communication when you are sober. Drunk talk is just that, drunk talk.

 

Besides, it's always when she's drunk and you're close to her so you're a target of opportunity and nothing else. If you are really not into chasing her or infatuated with her then it should be easy to leave her in the dust.

[Jack of Hearts]

I would totally agree with you about just walking away, but it's difficult because she's best friend's with one of my best friend's, so it's not like we aren't going to see each other ever again. I don't mind having her around, but I want her to come out and either say we are strictly friends and nothing more, or we're gonna be FWB, or I'm trying to decide to see where I want to go with this, something. I recognize that she's playing head games, and I usually don't let it bother me. I'll even play along sometimes, what the hell, who doesn't like being cozy with a cutie for a night. But I don't get how she can be so aloof as to the whole situation, then SHE is the one to bring up talking about it as if it were serious.

[WTRanger]

I understand, it's tough. Like you said, you can cozy up to her for a night and, hell, who wouldn't want that? I think she can be so aloof because even she doesn't know what she wants. It's also hard when someone always wants to be around you, and even more so when it turns into a make-out session or more, to not have one side develop lopsided feelings. That is the situation you are trying to avoid and I think you have a good grip on the situation. However, the girl doesn't seem to even know where Earth is at this point.

 

Walking away can be tough, and probably not the best thing to do now that I've thought about it. So your best option might be to try to get her to open up. Push her, but back off if she starts showing signs of stress or her breaking point. Put it in terms that she can understand. That she's causing you some stress and that you'd just like to clear the elephant out of the room either way. It'll be one less thing the both of you have to have on your mind, so why not just talk about it?

 

Believe me, this very "talk" spooks people, both guys and girls. My situation the girl will tell me that she'll call me or what not, then not call or not show up to talk. When I naturally inquire why, as she was always one of the people whom I could trust to come through on what they said they would do, she'll use that as I'm backing her into a corner. It's hard to talk and even argue when someone doesn't use logic or is so lost in their direction. So for now, I'm letting her "process" as she likes to call it. I want to be friends with this girl as I really care about her, and sure, I'd like to be more than friends too. But for now, for my head and stress levels I had to back away from her. I miss her like crazy and miss her company, but in the end regardless of the outcome I think what I'm doing right now is for the best for both of us.

 

Maybe for a few weeks you don't see her or only hang around her in a sober environment? Give her some time, but you need to let her know that you really want to clear this up. As in my case and it sounds like yours as well, the girl started the ball rolling but now she is getting cold feet to give us an answer either way. It's like talking about going skydiving for years, then when you finally get to the door of the plane you freeze up and now you don't want to jump.

 

As hard as it is the ball is in her court. The rough side is that while she is waffling you might move on to another person and by the time she figure's her own sh*t out, it'll be too late.

[Jack of Hearts]

Yeah, I think you're right. I don't think she knows what she wants, which is fine, but the lack of proper communication makes it worse. However, I can bet that if I try to talk to her about it in a sober situation (in person) her guard will fly up and she will get uncomfortable and intimidated, which makes me look like a psycho. So, I can either continue as we have been which will result in us making out again, and her trying to have our talk only after she's had a few which defeats the purpose or I can refuse any advances she makes to me while we're out with friends, but then again that defeats the purpose because it's the conversation I want. It's like dealing with two separate people with her, the one that's all over me, and the one that's avoids the situation.

 

Sometimes I think that if I just make a total scene in front of her, or be a complete douche bag to her, or fly off the handle in some way she might get so pissed off at me as to not want to talk to me ever again, but that's not my style and I would be lying if I said that's what I wanted. I don't know, sometimes I think that I have to do something drastic in order for her to open up, but that would destroy more than our relationship.

[WTRanger]

Truth is, she may never come around when you want her to. It could take years. Who knows with people like this? I feel your frustration. It's so hard to be split between like that. It sounds like you like her company but don't like what she's become or how she's acting. And you can't move forward without her coming with you but you certainly don't feel right leaving her behind either and at the same time to add in a third split you don't want to stay stuck in neutral either.

 

I would try to talk to her when she's sober, though from what you describe it might be an act of futility. I wonder if there is a way to do it that won't immediately put her on guard? I think that's impossible too, this subject immeaditly puts people who don't deal so well on thier highest alert. I think you best bet for now is to avoid her advances when she's drunk, as hard as that might be. Then she'll have to talk, she'll have no choice but to wonder why. If she doesn't then she's a lost cause at this point and you can take two roads. Realize she is a lost cause but enjoy the ride (maybe literally) with her, or somehow avoid her at all costs.

 

Sometimes I think that if I just make a total scene in front of her, or be a complete douche bag to her, or fly off the handle in some way she might get so pissed off at me as to not want to talk to me ever again, but that's not my style and I would be lying if I said that's what I wanted. I don't know, sometimes I think that I have to do something drastic in order for her to open up, but that would destroy more than our relationship.

A man after my own mind! You have no idea how many times I've wanted call the girl up in my situation and just call her a stinky c*nt or just show up her her door and demand that she talk to me or else. That way she'd have a reason to not talk and act so distant around me and run away. You can't do this though. Sometimes I wonder if this is what they want us to do? Try to break you down so you snap, which in turn gives them the easy road out if they so choose. They don't have the proper spinal support to be open and honest so they'll break your spirit so you snap. It's like taking a pop quiz you've had zero time to study for and you have never even heard of the subject.

[boldjack]

JOH, I would not "make a scene", as that will make you look "needy", and open you up to ridicule, as well as pushing this girl away from any type of sober contact. As I see it, you have two probs. 1) That you guys get drunk and make out, play games, and generally **** with each other. 2) You like this girl and you want to know whether she has any feelings for you, but you can't get anything out of her, when she is sober. As far as the first part, When she tries to suck face or comes on to you, WALK AWAY. Go to another part of the room, You don't have to be nasty about it, just go to the bar, go play music, go talk to someone else, just leave her, physically. The second part , you will have to leave to her. Tell her, when you text or e-mail, that you are ready to talk, whenever she is. But Keep it light, so she doesn't get stressed. Then leave it alone. If she has feelings she will communicate them to you, BUT only believe her, WHEN SHE'S SOBER.

[Jack of Hearts]

WTR: Haha! I totally know what you mean. I've even played out in my head how I would tell her off, but my problem is that I would completely destroy her and I know I can't do that, nor do I want to do that. Sometimes when I just want to express "Hey, you know you're being really confusing and I'm trying to understand you.", it will come out as "You're nothing but a spoiled, drunk, sl*t of a c*ck tease, you're a freakin' joke!" Of course, that's not how I feel, but it puts a sick smile on my face every once in a while.

 

The problem I see in these types of situations is that the one being elusive has all the power. We're racking our brains trying to understand them. We're the ones going on messageboards for advice. We're the ones thinking about it so much. We're the ones feeling pushed and pulled, and we're the ones being manipulated. I can almost guarantee that our girls in question aren't pining for resolution as much as we are. It's almost sad, really. We have to learn to turn the tables.

 

In my situation, sometimes it seems as though I have. I will break contact for a while, act indifferent towards her and I see her trying harder and harder for my attention and I think "Yeah, how does that feel now?" Then I find myself kissing her again and my first thought is "Yeah, this is nice!", then I'm like "Oh sh*t!, dammit, no, stop!" Then she'll try to bring up the talk, and I'll reluctantly humor her for a while knowing that it won't matter. Then I scold myself realizing that her hooks are in me again and its back to square one.

 

But the thing I dread is the thought that if I attempt to talk to her about it and say something like "I would like to talk to you about what's going on between us for the sake of clarity." And she says something like "What are you talking about?" I think I would lose it (see me telling her off above) and again verify that she has all the power by allowing her to effect my emotions. Talk about a twisted game.

 

Boldjack: I hear ya and I'm trying, but sometimes I lose focus, haha! You're dead on with the ONLY WHEN SOBER rule. I don't believe anything she says when we're drinking.

[WTRanger]

They have all the power if we let them, but it's hard not to try to wonder why they are acting that way. Why is it so hard? Because for some reason we care about them! It makes no sense to us, but to them they feel they are doing nothing wrong. Or they've successfully convinced themselves that they are doing nothing wrong. That's why they are so shocked when we confront them about it or if we back away from them months to years later they finally come around and realize what they did and how wrong it was.

 

I don't think we can turn the tables, it's not in our nature. I know I couldn't do what this girl is doing to me to anyone. I couldn't do it if I tried my hardest. I'm just not that type of person. I prefer to be open and honest, but that's because I learned the hard way what being closed-up and distant can do to someone else or miss an opportunity with someone because I refused to believe my own feelings.

 

You've got to try to back away slowly from her. You've got to try your hardest to avoid her when she's in the drunk kissing mode. The more you stay around her, you won't be able to move forward yourself. You'll be stuck in a rut with her. If she doesn't want to leave her rut, then at some point you need to just move on yourself.

 

The more you stay away from her, the clearer your mind will get. It's not an overnight fix for sure. I'm almost at 2 months in my situation since we both agreed we need to figure out where we see each other in our lives. I gave her a full month of very very minimal contact and when I checked in, she had made ZERO progress. Talk about being pissed off! She claimed she needs more time and that because of work and other stresses she cannot devote time to thinking about what she would say, nor does she even know what she would like to say. So I backed off again, 2 weeks later she still has made ZERO progress and now we're almost at 2 months. This was from hanging out with this girl almost every day, getting close to her, then all of a sudden BAM!, cold turkey, she runs away when it becomes apparent that there could be a more than friends situation brewing. She hasn't said either way whether she would or would not be interested in me, but her actions are dictating her words. This whole time, she's said more to me through her actions than she ever could through her words. It's anyone's guess why I'm still even remotely interested in still having the talk with her though. I guess I want to figure out why in the hell she thinks this is the best course of action. For my own seflish need to get to the bottom of things I guess.

 

But because I've maintained minimal contact for the entire time, it's becoming clearer in my head and I think about it only 92% of the time. Which is good, since it's down from thinking about it 100% of the time. The harderst thing is that if she ever comes around, the way she's acted I don't know if I want to be friends with her anymore and there's certainly no way to be in a relationship with her. Real friends talk, plain and simple.

 

That being said, it doesn't make the situation any less hard or take the weight off of your heart and shoulders.

[Jack of Hearts]

but to them they feel they are doing nothing wrong. Or they've successfully convinced themselves that they are doing nothing wrong. That's why they are so shocked when we confront them about it

 

Yes!! What the hell is with that?

 

I can see how moving slowly away can help, but it's hard for me;

 

1. Because I like her obviously and would like to spend more time with her (to better understand her and see if anything takes off) and

 

2. Because she is a close friend to my best friend who I usually go out with every weekend, it will be difficult to avoid us being in the same place.

 

Furthermore, (and this problem is my own and I know it) if I were to pay her no mind if she makes a pass at me, she would most likely kick-up the jealousy factor and find some other guy to hang around until I reciprocate. This accomplishes nothing in my favor because I would not enjoy her company, or get down discussing what we need to.

 

Part of me thinks I should create a situation where we do our regular thing (drink-make out), and then press the issue of conversation after the fact so we could get it over with. I know it's being manipulative, but damn. How else am I going to get it in her head?

 

Also, my major flaw in this whole thing is that if we're out together, I'd rather have her with me than with anyone else. I'm a bit selfish like that, but again, I could use the next situation to press the issue which might hopefully produce some results.

 

I just think this whole thing is weird because isn't it supposed to be the girls that want to "talk" and "express ourselves", "discuss where we're at" and all that other happy horsesh*t? What the hell happened?

[WTRanger]

I know it's being manipulative, but damn. How else am I going to get it in her head?

 

Sir, you have a better chance at breaking into Area 51 to see if there is indeed a crashed alien spaceship there. Because unlike the girl's mind, with enough planning and the proper execution you could feasibly break into Area 51. If she doesn't want to let you inside her head, she will lock herself down and not let you anywhere near her true feelings and thoughts. The more you push into her, the farther away she will back. It's a stalemate right now. She's on one side in her trench and you're on the opposite side of the field in your trench. Every time you try to advance she'll repel you back to the start. At some point you just have to retreat the other way, or flank around her and let her sit in her trench and wonder where the hell you are.

 

The reason she may not seem like she cares, is because she is showing that she doesn't. She knows, and you know this, that if you don't make out with her or feed into her attention machine that there are so many guys in the bar that will do that for you. If she goes out of her way to make you jealous, then she might be interested in you or she is just one hell of a game-playing manipulative hose-beast.

 

It is in my humble opinion that the farther the person runs away from "the talk" that they are hiding some deep down feelings. I feel that they run away because they refuse to believe the feelings. They think the distance will cure all. Bury the feelings along with your head in the sand and all will be perfect. She might feel she isn't supposed to see you that way, you are supposed to be just a make-out buddy and nothing else. Too bad for her, you can't stop the feelings express and, yes, they do develop. It's called nature and feelings are all uncontrollable. Feelings are meant to be embraced not rejected becuase it doesn't fit some gay-ass "life plan." You can plan a dinner, but you can't plan your life so don't even try. The best way to deal with them is to be OPEN about them. Even if she doesn't want to be in a relationship the best thing for her is to admit she at least sees you that way, or if she doesn't see you that way. Keeping you in limbo is just grade school bullsh*t.

 

If she doesn't see you in any sort of way other than just a make-out buddy, then why would it be so hard for her to tell you? She'll give you the line, "But I don't want hurt your feelings, blah blah blah." but what she fails to see is that by acting distant and refusing to talk that hurts WAY more than anything she could say. Becuase if she just TALKS, then regardless of the outcome you at least know where you stand. Same in my case, if she just sees me as a friend, why is it so hard for her to just say that? Why does she need 2 plus months to figure that out? Meanwhile, I've been through hell over here while she just waffles on the subject. That's why I think they go distant. To try to repress any sort of feelings until they are gone, or they think they are gone. This is by far the worst way to deal with this situation and it hurts one side right now, and in the future the other side will finally feel the hurt. No one wins when no one talks.

 

Your best friend right now is time. You have to let things cool down. It's taken me 2 months to realize that there isn't much more I can do. Secretly, every day I hope to hear from her that she is indeed ready to talk, but the reality of the situation is that I'll probably never hear from her again. She seems perfectly content on staying away, at least for the foreseeable future. The crap part is, her birthday is coming up. 2-3 months ago I had planned on doing something neat for her, but now I'm doubting even texting her happy birthday is even worth the effort. That's how far I've fallen away becuase of her inaction. It sucks, but it's the only way I started to feel better about waking up in the morning was to do what she's doing to me. Push her away. Realize that real and true friends, hell even human f*cking beings talk. Even mimes can communiate, Iran and Isreal talk, North and South Korea eventually talk, so why can't the two of you talk?

 

You are in a tougher situation than I am for sure. I at least don't have to see this girl unless we both agree on seeing each other. We don't have many mutual friends, and no mutual friends that we hang out with on weekends or go to bars with. So once I finally got it into my head that the ball is in her court, it was somewhat easy to physically cut contact. However, that didn't make it easier. It was very hard to do, and very hard everyday not to want to call or text her to see how she is progressing. I just have to give her the space she needs or it'll get really ugly, which I do not want even though I'd finally get closure. Negative closure, but closure non the less.

 

You can always fight fire with fire and find another girl who frequents the same bar and start hitting on her. Then see how this girl reacts. You've got to show her that you have options other than her.

[Jack of Hearts]

She's on one side in her trench and you're on the opposite side of the field in your trench. Every time you try to advance she'll repel you back to the start. At some point you just have to retreat the other way, or flank around her and let her sit in her trench and wonder where the hell you are.

 

Dude, your analogy is freakin' great! However, I need to find a way to get her to come out of her trench and cross the field.

 

The reason she may not seem like she cares, is because she is showing that she doesn't.

 

I can bet that she is fronting, hardcore. Hence the personality and penchant for drinking. When she is sober, she is different, not bad but different, almost anxious or nervous (or this could just be because I'm there, who knows). This is the girl I want to get to know better, her normal self.

 

It is in my humble opinion that the farther the person runs away from "the talk" that they are hiding some deep down feelings. I feel that they run away because they refuse to believe the feelings.

 

I agree. During one of our attempts to talk this out, I told her that she was scared. Scared to recognize her feelings, my feelings and address them. Scared to let someone in. She said that she just doesn't care, which any psychologist can tell you that a statement like that is a defense mechanism to avoid pain. I think she has a large wall that she hides behind for dear life and she drinks to numb her conscience.

 

They think the distance will cure all. Bury the feelings along with your head in the sand and all will be perfect. She might feel she isn't supposed to see you that way, you are supposed to be just a make-out buddy and nothing else.

 

Again, I agree. By her avoiding the topic and act as if nothing has happened allows her live unconflicted, but I suffer for it more than she does and she doesn't realize it.

 

 

Even if she doesn't want to be in a relationship the best thing for her is to admit she at least sees you that way, or if she doesn't see you that way. Keeping you in limbo is just grade school bullsh*t.

 

Again, agree totally.

 

 

 

It's taken me 2 months to realize that there isn't much more I can do. Secretly, every day I hope to hear from her that she is indeed ready to talk, but the reality of the situation is that I'll probably never hear from her again. She seems perfectly content on staying away, at least for the foreseeable future. The crap part is, her birthday is coming up. 2-3 months ago I had planned on doing something neat for her, but now I'm doubting even texting her happy birthday is even worth the effort. That's how far I've fallen away becuase of her inaction. It sucks, but it's the only way I started to feel better about waking up in the morning was to do what she's doing to me. Push her away. Realize that real and true friends, hell even human f*cking beings talk. Even mimes can communiate, Iran and Isreal talk, North and South Korea eventually talk, so why can't the two of you talk?.

 

I feel for you, but in a way I almost would rather have the understanding that: Yes, we need to talk and you need time to think about it. But I don't think she even acknowledges that we need to talk (until after we make out, of course).

 

You can always fight fire with fire and find another girl who frequents the same bar and start hitting on her. Then see how this girl reacts. You've got to show her that you have options other than her.

 

Believe me, I have in a way. Everytime another girl is mentioned or she see's a picture of me and another girl, she immediatley wants the scoop. This could be a sign of a little bit of jealousy or it could be a sign of relief, her thinking that I've moved on, who knows.

 

But on the topic of other people, one very weird thing that gets me about her is that she will talk to our mutual friends (guys) about her sexual experiences and exploits, but whenver I'm around she always changes the subject or cuts one of my friends off at the beginning of a story or refuses to answer a question. I know she is very open about these types of things, but if I'm around she shuts down and avoids the topic. To the other women I've talked to about this they say that it is a sign that she cares what I think of her, and she doesn't want me to think negatively of her.

 

Who knows, but one of the first things she ever joked about with me was that she said "we would have great sex, and that's it." or we would joke before we went out about who was going to take advantange of whom, which at the time I laughed it off and joked right back at her, but I think something went haywire when we started getting closer. After all, we had the opportunity to have sex, yet she stopped it. Hmmmm. Maybe she realized that her feelings are deeper than she thinks, or that she wanted.

 

I just want her to take her wall down, or atleast let me speak to her through a hole in it.

[WTRanger]

Her wall to her inner emotions and feelings might be too high for you to scale. She seems like she's not ready to let you over it just yet, so no matter how high you climb she'll just build the wall one brick higher.

 

I still think you should try by putting some light pressure on her when she's sober. Judge her reactions, listen to what she has to say, and if she's still taking the impenetrable route then you need to back down unless you want to push her over the edge and completely trash whatever connection you two had. It's a rough spot to be in for sure and the longer it goes the less you stay connected with reality.

 

I feel for you, but in a way I almost would rather have the understanding that: Yes, we need to talk and you need time to think about it. But I don't think she even acknowledges that we need to talk (until after we make out, of course).

 

Yes, in my case we both realize the need for the talk but there has been little progress since then. I liken it to admitting your house in on fire, then waiting 4 weeks to call the fire department.

[Jack of Hearts]

WTR: Thank you very much for your insight. I sincerely hope your situation is resolved sooner than later and that you both benefit from it.

 

After a very long discussion with a couple people I trust, I have realized that I'm an idiot. I have screwed up, and now I need to work to fix it.

 

After reading my original posts, and replies and can now see who utterly stupid I am.

 

I have caused a lot of the problem, and I did nothing but perpetuate the mind games by my actions. I can even spot in my commentary every mistake I made along the way, and I feel foolish as to be so blind to the obvious.

 

In a way I created the problem. Hopefully I am able to establish trust, which will bring about honesty about my situation without compromising my integrity.

 

Talk about a wake-up call.

 

Thanks again.

[WTRanger]

Well, as long as I can keep her in my life regardless of her "status" then I'll take that as a good outcome. Believe me, through your postings you've helped me as well.

 

I wouldn't say you did anything wrong really. When someone you care about is acting strangely, you want to figure it out. Not only for yourself, but for them as well. You care about them. Hell, we'll go to stupid lengths sometimes to help a person we care about or try to figure them out. In fact the dumber the lengths you go, the more you care about them. If someone told me that I could resolve my situation by jumping naked into a pool full of razor blades then I'd have to wear a jump suit made of salt for the rest of the day. I'd do it, in fact I'd be in mid-jump before they explained the 2nd part of the deal.

 

I mean you're just a normal guy, it's fun to make out with a girl when you are boozed. Who wouldn't do it? It's great to have a girl by your side. It just makes you feel good. Life's too anchored in the sh*thouse not to just have fun and feel good.

 

I think as long as this girl has a good head on her shoulders she'll eventually come around and see that you were just trying to help and figure her out. Just be open with her, talk to her and most importantly listen to her. If she tells you she needs space, 1st ask her to define her space as all girls define space a bit differently, then 2nd go ahead and give her the space she needs. I think this is a case, as in mine, a good dose of time away will let everything come into place.

[Jack of Hearts]

After a weekend of comtemplation I have come to realize that eventhough I want her to take down her wall, I haven't given her a reason to do so. In a way I keep her behind that wall, while I try to talk to her from behind mine. I see that we are playing the exact same game with each other, doing the exact same thing and I wonder why she's keeping her guard up. Have I put mine down? No. Did I see that she was trying to get some validation from me about my feelings to see if I was sincere? No. Everytime I got her close to me, I pushed her away. I make out with her, and then come off as if I don't like her. How is she supposed to react to that? It almost laughable because both of us are doing the SAME thing to each other and we don't realize it. I now see that if I would have been more honest, swallowed my pride and stopped being an insecure a**hole, this would have been resolved, but no. I continue to screw with her head and then blame her for screwing with mine.

 

I haven't given her any reason to open up to me. She has only opened up to me after she's had a few because she scared, and did I see it for what it was? No. I just chalked it up to "oh, she's just drunk" when I should have been thinking "Geez, she's trying so hard to get the courage to approach me about this, so much so that she needs to drink in order to stifle her fear." But no. Because I didn't want to be honest with myself or her I let it turn into this ugly game. Well, I can't let it continue.