Without religion, can you feel truly fulfilled?

[Nikki Sahagin]

It seems in the past, the main cause of fulfillment was religion and belief in a higher power or God. Now seemingly, with alternate explanations i.e. scientific, and also the acknowledgement of numerous other religious paths i.e. Christianity and it's denominations, Islam, Hindi, Sikhism etc, is it possible to feel that same unfailing fulfillment that religion offers for so many?

 

I do not believe speciifcally in anything, be it religion or nothingness. I am open minded to it all - God, ghosts, reincarnation, nothingness. I find in some of my hardest times I do end up praying, though I do not entirely believe in God's existance, the achknowledgement that it (I don't believe God would be a he or she but just a presence) is out there, gives me some sense of comfort because it gives a feeling of comfort and guarantee; that through pain and suffering there is this never-ending, all-consuming love out there waiting for you after all other loves may fail.

 

Without that feeling can you have true fulfillment? You can definately find fulfillment in other avenues i.e. family, friendships, travel - but as none of these are constant or guaranteed (whereas believe in God, whether it turns out a God exists or not seems to offer constantly AND guarantee if you are a good person). With the lack of a constant source of fulfillment, or at least an ever-lasting one, outside of God, do the things which we seek to fulfill us need to constantly change?

[samsungxoxo]

Yes in my view I see religion as nothing more than a drug that puts you into a trance-like state (a total fantasy you are living into). In reality you are following someone else's ideas and not your own, you aren't being true to yourself. You can work and make money on your own without any religion or supreme being, thing whatsoever. You make things happen. You either do things right or you don't.

[wuggle]

Certainly can. I can honestly say that I am more fulfilled now that I have abandoned the illusion of God and religion. In accepting the 'theory' of evolution, life seems even more special. If we only have a small finite time on this earth and that is all we have to contribute to the evolution of our species, how wonderful that we are here at all, how precious life becomes when we are not ignoring it and waiting for a promised 'afterlife'.

[quankanne]

to each his own ... I personally don't see what the attraction of getting drunk is, but for some reason it works for other people. And while I don't care for it, it's not ME they've need approval from, but themselves.

 

it doesn't exist in a bottle, but in my relationship with The Big Guy, and everything becomes clearer. Is it a fantasy I'm embracing? No more than the booze people swill, or the drugs they take, or the concept of self-sufficiency that others have works for them. Kinda harsh to call it a fantasy when the playing fields are nowhere near each other.

[samsungxoxo]

Kinda harsh to call it a fantasy when the playing fields are nowhere near each other.

 

Yeah each of us think different when it comes to believes and/or lack of it. Do whatever suits you best and if it's going well for you ok. Harsh I dunno, I can never accept something that either I never saw with my own eyes and/or hasn't been proven scientifically.

[quankanne]

just because it doesn't work for you – but it does for someone else – doesn't mean you need to bash it just to secure your position. Live and let live, baby.

[samsungxoxo]

just because it doesn't work for you – but it does for someone else – doesn't mean you need to bash it just to secure your position. Live and let live, baby.

 

I wasn't I only answered the OP's post. As you can see I always avoid the religion/god topics. Yeah it's hard stating it in another word without anyone getting and/or offended.

[disgracian]

the achknowledgement that it (I don't believe God would be a he or she but just a presence) is out there, gives me some sense of comfort because it gives a feeling of comfort and guarantee

This, to me, is a very revealing statement.

You can definately find fulfillment in other avenues i.e. family, friendships, travel - but as none of these are constant or guaranteed ... do the things which we seek to fulfill us need to constantly change?

One of the things I have learned is that life is change. If you embrace that, you do not need to search for something immutable as a source of comfort and reassurance. Change brings with it the wonder of possibility and hope.

 

As long as we're alive, I don't think anyone can be "truly fulfilled"; there is always more for us to do. Anyone who feels otherwise is, in a way, already dead inside.

 

Cheers,

D.

[quankanne]

from the look on your cat's face, I think i took you by surprise. Sorry. It's just that lately I'm getting picked on as a believer, especially with the Catholic-bashing.

 

peace?

[samsungxoxo]

from the look on your cat's face, I think i took you by surprise. Sorry. It's just that lately I'm getting picked on as a believer, especially with the Catholic-bashing.

 

peace?

 

Yea it's a funny avatar alright. I love cats a lot (too bad my parents hate them, ugh). And true lots of bashing going on.

 

It's alright no offense taken.

[quankanne]

good golly, not cat-bashing, I hope! :eek: they may make my eyes itch, but I love the little furry britches!

[Eve]

With the lack of a constant source of fulfillment, or at least an ever-lasting one, outside of God, do the things which we seek to fulfill us need to constantly change?

 

I think it comes down to whether a person identifies at some level with having a soul. I have noted over the years that many people who do not go for organised religion still have a deep sense of direction which can be learned or is innate. These are the people who I see to be more resilient because they allow positive markers to exist and be created within their lives because of this belief or sense of soul. For those who follow a faith I have noted that the soul sometimes simply 'opens up' to greater possiblities and this is truly the anchor of their faith. BUT I have also seen this occur within a therepeutic alliance with persons who do not outwardly call upon God. Both sides struggle within constraints within their environment but I see the key theme of authorship and learning to live and act from a state of congruence as freeing elements.

 

So, constant change seems to be evident for those without a recognition or clear distinction for the soul mainly because they follow negative or hedonistic drives. Those, who even do not have a firm distinction of the soul seem to rise above problems easier but I would say can equally struggle with the concept of freedom.

 

I quite like the work of Enrich Fromm as an exploration into the soul etc. Here are a couple of his quotes Nicky..

 

“Let your mind start a journey thru a strange new world. Leave all thoughts of the world you knew before. Let your soul take you where you long to be...Close your eyes let your spirit start to soar, and you'll live as you've never lived before.”

 

Enrich Fromm

 

"There is only one possible, productive solution for the relationship of individualized man with the world: his active solidarity with all men and his spontaneous activity, love and work, which unite him again with the world, not by primary ties but as a free and independent individual.... However, if the economic, social and political conditions... do not offer a basis for the realization of individuality in the sense just mentioned, while at the same time people have lost those ties which gave them security, this lag makes freedom an unbearable burden. It then becomes identical with doubt, with a kind of life which lacks meaning and direction. Powerful tendencies arise to escape from this kind of freedom into submission or some kind of relationship to man and the world which promises relief from uncertainty, even if it deprives the individual of his freedom." (Erich Fromm, Escape from Freedom [N.Y.: Rinehart, 1941], pp. 36-7. The point is repeated on pp. 31, 256-7.)

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[wuggle]

good golly, not cat-bashing, I hope! :eek: they may make my eyes itch, but I love the little furry britches!

 

Cat bashing ! give me thier name, tonight they sleep with the fish !

[quankanne]

LOL – definitely one of the girls who works at the local Catholic Charities office. just because she's a dog person doesn't mean she should bad-mouthe kitties!

 

“Let your mind start a journey thru a strange new world. Leave all thoughts of the world you knew before. Let your soul take you where you long to be...Close your eyes let your spirit start to soar, and you'll live as you've never lived before.”

 

"let your soul be your pilot" ~ Sting

[Ross PK]

Yes, I believe you can.

 

If you need religion to feel fullfilled, then this may suggest you have some problems in life.

[Eve]

"let your soul be your pilot" ~ Sting

 

 

Good lyrics... I couldnt find a way to listen to the song unfortunately.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[sally4sara]

I feel more fulfilled without religion now, but that was not always the case.

 

I was raise in a fundie family and was heavily involved in my church till about the age of 14/15. It wasn't that I no longer believed the things I learned at church once I reached that age. It was just normal for me to become more invested in my social life around that time.

This was when I began to notice how the things I had been taught to believe didn't hold true. Its harder to notice these things while they are actively indoctrinating you on the daily. Christianity is a horrible brainwashing hidden amid bits of obvious common sense and selective goodwill. It tells women they must endure the failings, addictions, and abuse of their husband while keeping their mouths shut and their legs open for his use. It tells men they are incapable of acts your average single mother can accomplish alone, forcing them to seek a second mommy that embodies only qualities A, B, and C whether that is his want to begin with. They become bullying, over grown boys who can't take care of themselves, let alone their children they were told they must create. Christianity breeds co-dependent people capable of smiling in your face before they gather together and make it impossible for your family feel welcome after knowing you for 20 years because one of your children grew up and came out of the closet.

 

I did go through a depression during my "crisis of faith" after realizing there is no god. Then I realized it was just anger over having been lied to for so many years and the realization of what I and other family members had tolerated in the hope earning heaven.

[disgracian]

Quank, I have also experienced a lot of the bashing for my beliefs. I rarely come to this forum anymore. I know the Lord said in the last days, Christians would be persecuted and killed, I guess that means in spirit too.

A few non-Christians get to speak their mind on an internet forum and you consider that persecution? That is an insult to anyone who has ever been genuinely persecuted for their beliefs or lack thereof. Get a sense of perspective!

 

Cheers,

D.

[Enema]

There's a famous quote that goes: "The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

 

I certainly don't think that only religious people can feel fulfilled.

 

In many cases, it may be more comforting for a person to believe the lie than to know the truth. My mother is a firm believer and I don't bother to try and convince her otherwise because she's harmless and it gives her a comforting blanket of false hope.

[JamesM]

Back to OP...

 

Personally, I do believe that you can be completely fulfilled in your self here on earth without God or religion.

 

Because that depends on how you define fulfillment. BUT...if you compare fulfillment with God and fulfillment with self, then it is like comparing apples to oranges.

 

A true Christian does not love God as a means to find happiness in him or herself.

 

There are two purposes for loving God and acknowledging Him as the Lord over your life.

 

One, there is the realization that while one can be fulfilled without God here on earth, one can never find happiness after death without God.

 

Two, one who finds God does find a deeper sense of fulfillment and due to gratitude and love, he or she will worship Him. When one is delivered from the misery of sin, one has nothing but gratitude. However, he or she does not begin to love SELF and be satisfied with SELF. Instead, he or she finds his fulfillment in Jesus Christ.

 

We are happy with what we know. When one does not know God, he or she will be fulfilled with him or herself. When one is granted the knowledge of what God has done through the blood of Jesus, then satisfaction with self is no longer enough.

[a4a]

This has to make me wonder how a relationship with a god of any sort works.

 

Is it like a relationship with a person - a parent?

 

You stay with a friend, lover, partner because of the way they make you feel in most cases. Even in abusive relationships there is usually some sort of "paycheck" if the abusee/unhappy partner is sticking it out.

 

I just cannot fathom thinking that any god brings me to my knees or lifts me up.

 

Those things happen to me either through circumstance or my own decisions.

 

However I would have to think that stating/thinking I am not responsible for my problems or my success might be a relief at times.

 

I will state that it is condesending as all hell (if that were a real place) to state people without religion (the correct one or just lack of one) are somehow not as fulfilled in their life as someone who drank the Kool Aid.

 

But people are herd animals. They require the companionship of other animals of their type. Perhaps religion is just a way of garauntee that this will be eternal??

 

If the Kool Aid comment bothers you... well the "lost and unfulfilled" comments are just as bad and in a bashing fashion IMHO.

 

Got to add....... I don't think I came into this world a sinner..... unless crapping your pants is a sin.

[JamesM]

Here it's so angry. I don't mind the difference of opinion done in respect. It is your and anyone else's right. But I would also like my comments to be respected. I have actually gotten PM's that have been more than a little twisted. I do have a sense of perspective, thanks for the suggestion though:).

 

Ironically, I have a slightly different opinion...based on being a member of a forum that is supposedly all Christian.

 

Here it is true are many angry comments and some snide remarks and even some character attacks, but rarely it is not backed up with some sort of argument that actually has some logic to it. And yes, some comments get personal as in "You have no clue what you are talking about" but rarely is there simply a "You are a moron" comment.

 

Even Disgracian keeps his rhetoric somewhat muted when it comes to name calling when compared to the other board. And I will keep that board nameless.

 

On the other board, I posed a question and started a thread. It was said by some who have no foundation in the Bible that Paul was a repressed homosexual. So I posed that as a question for discussion.

 

It took 19 posts before I actually had a defense of why the Bible supports that he was not. The first posts were all literally comments such as "You are an idiot" or "You are a moron" and more. And truthfully, the defense was fairly simple.

 

Yet all of the name calling posters (and many claimed to be ministers) gave nothing more than a character assassination of me or the person I quoted. There was no defense given.

 

Because of said thread, I received quite a few nasty PMs and negative reputation points.

 

When an atheist and a theist exchange some negative comments, it is somewhat to be expected. However, when alleged Christians do nothing but character assassinations, it says alot more about their "Christianity" than anything else.

 

Needless to say, I was disillusioned by that Board.

[GorillaTheater]

I have found that for myself the QUEST for God has been fulfilling, even though as time goes by I find myself left with more questions than I started with. For example, I still have alot of trouble wrapping my head around such ideas as God's ultimate goal being His glory, or His requirement for blood sacrifice being an atonement for sin (made the mistake of telling my pastor that that struck me as kind of "pagan").

 

But I've enjoyed the journey.

[Moose]

Personally, no....I can't.

 

When I look at ALL aspects of my life, I've condidered all that I've done, all that I've felt, and all that I continually do. None of which can't be outdone by someone else.

 

Fulfillment to me, (out of the dictionary even) is the state or quality of being fulfilled; completion; realization: a vague plan that had no hope of fulfillment.

 

When God sent His Son to take my place, He leveled the ground at the foot of the cross so to speak to those who believe in Him. No one is "better" or "holier" than the next, we are seen by God as God sees His Son....

 

No, I would've NEVER been perfect, or fulfilled in front of my Maker without Christ as my Saviour, and that carries out with me while on my earthly sojourn.

[disgracian]

I have actually gotten PM's that have been more than a little twisted.

You're not the lone ranger there. I get my fair share from the crazies as well. But regardless of the hostility, they're still some random person I don't know who probably lives on another continent. It's hardly persecution.

 

I don't think many people in Western society have ever experienced real persecution for their beliefs.

 

Cheers,

D.