9 months later, WS (EA) describes feelings of "great peace" for OP co-worker...

March 29, 2009

Last week, WS and I had what I believe to be one of the first really honest discussions about OP (single co-worker she still works with)...honest from the standpoint that I believe she was finally, at least, acknowledging, ableit in her own disjointed way, that she still had feelings for her co-worker. Perhaps I'm extrapolating this, but here's the gist of the conversation...

For about an hour and a half, in a very calm and civil tone, I said every variation of "you love him" or "you fell in love with him and still love him" and "I don't know how much longer you expect me to endure a situation where you're in love with OP and still work with him..." etc. (she's sent out 6 resumes in 9 months; we have two small children; our 20th anniversary is on May 27th. (I know the wrath that will rain on me from this board for still living in this house. I can take it.)

Anyway, over the course of this long, calm, civil conversation, I must have said some sort of variation of "you still love him" 15 different times, to which she would just stare down in her lap or just look at me quietly. The times she did respond, she said things like "my brain is mush" or "it's not real" or "it's not reality". Since it was an EA, she's really had a hard time admitting, I mean really, really acknowledging and admitting what she did was "crossing the line" since there was no sex. "Haven't you ever had an innocent crush on somebody?" I've heard that a lot, as well as countless indignant "I never crossed a line!" statements.

But it's hard to explain...after this fairly civil discussion where she at least, in her own way, sort of acknowlegded what I've felt all along, I felt some sort of relief that we were at least in the ballpark of honesty. Sometimes I wish they'd have just f***** so she couldn't cloak herself in the silly "I never crossed the line" defense.

Over the last three weeks, I've found journal entries of hers (going way back to when I first found out) where she wrote "I can't tell BS the truth because A.) it will end our marriage; B.) that "truth" doesn't exist anymore (which she then crossed out); C.) I want to end that "truth" (which she crossed out and changed to "I NEED to end that "truth" (which she crossed out and changed to "I need to TRY to end that "truth").)

She also wrote in a journal entry that "I don't know if OP shares that love with me." Oh, but the denials...I can't begin to tell you. And when I tell her I read her journal entries, she's goes ballistic about the "violation!!!" (yell loud enough about the violation and she doesn't have to address the content. "Those were my own private musings, and they weren't meant for your eyes!" (Oh, I see...so that negates the sentiments, I suppose?)

Anyway, after telling her 15 ways to Sunday that she is still in love with OP, it took her five days to come back to me and say, "I'm sorry you were left with the impression that I am in love with OP. What I meant by saying "that's not reality" is that your statements about me being in love with OP are "not based in reality". (Huh? Actually, it was a pretty lame Clinton-esque attempt at changing the meaning of her initial statement because she said "IT'S not reality" five days ago, which I found refreshingly honest to some degree, something that has been sorely missing from her.)

But now she was saying that five days ago she said "THAT'S not based in reality" as opposed to "IT'S not based in reality"...(what is the meaning of IS?)

Bottom line is it took her five days to even come back to revise her quasi-admission (at least that's how I took it) of love for OP.

She then said, "You really want to know what I think about OP right now? When I think of him, when I go by his office (ten feet away from hers), I simply feel peace. Great peace." I think she was trying to make me feel better by distancing herself from the word "love". But peace? She feels "great peace" when she's near him? Lovely. 9 months since D-Day and the total annihilation of our marriage, and she still feels "peace" when she gets near OP. I would have hoped she would feel at least a little uncomfortable.

Thanks for listening. Let it rain...

March 29, 2009

PEACE? why peace? Did you ask her why she feels "peace"? Is it because going by his office reminds her of her decision not to "cross the line" and she is at PEACE with that decision? or is she at peace with some secret "truths" that the both of them have shared with each other? :confused:??????

March 29, 2009

1st you NEED to remain in the home with your kids, and W., if you left you could be accused of abandonment should your situation ever get to a divorce stage. 2nd there is no privacy in a mge., the 2 of your are partners, and need to share EVERYTHING. Next many consider an EA., as bad or worse than a PA. Lastly she needs to go NC with this guy immediatly, if that means working elsewhere, or in another office of her company than so be it----What is more important her mge., and family, or her job and the guy that is causing all these problems.

March 29, 2009

Your wife is sitting on the fence. She is still holding on to her fantasy while trying to live in the real world. She knows she has had an A, she knows she still loves him,she knows she crossed the line(why else would she had it and right about it in a journal), she knows this is hurting you but.....but she wants to have her cake and eat it too.

It is time you knock her off the fence. You can tell her you have decided that you want the same kind of "peace" that she has with the OM. That you have decided that since she didn't cross the line, that you are going to make a friend and "not cross the line", then proceed to do it. This approach would work, but it seems so, so high school. And I don't think mature people need to conduct themselves in games of emotion.

Another alternative, be it expensive, is to tell her you don't want to live this way and contact a lawyer. She what your options are. Tell her you can't build an honest relationship built on lies(blatant or omission)and you can't trust a person who doesn't respect you enough to tell you the truth. Without respect and honesty there is no healthy relationship. File for a D and let her see you mean business. She has no idea what she really stands the lose. I mean she knows on the surface, but she has no idea the depth of her betrayal.

Unfortunately, it appears she is still in the fog of the affair. I didn't read that the 2 of you are in counseling, are you? You guys need marriage and individual. But shake her up now, if you want to save your marriage and your family.

March 29, 2009

You have to bring her to crisis. You have sat there for 9 months. And told her

month 1: I don't like this.

month 2: I am putting my foot down. I so don't like this.

month 3: Did I tell you how much I don't like this?

month 4: I don't know if you understand how much I don't like this.

month 5: I like it even less then in month 2.

month 6: Wanna go out for Chinese?

month 7: I don't like this

month 8: I'm putting my foot down for the last time. I don't like this.

month 9: Damn this walking cast bugs me. I still don't like this.

Why should she believe you anymore now then 9 months ago. You have conditioned her, that she can have both. What do you expect?

March 29, 2009

No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. If the roles were reversed do you think she would be so passive and accepting as you have been? She does not respect you. If you do not respect yourself then who will?

March 29, 2009

Tami - WS mentioning "peace" when she was describing what she feels about OM is in reference to how he just emanates just an all-encompasing feeling of "peace". She has described him as "caring, gentle, a good listener, compassionate, mindful etc." He is a Buddhist, and that really struck a chord with her and her newfound (last couple of years) interest in Buddhism. The following morning, in an argument, she yelled at me, "What's the opposite of 'peace?' War!" So, I, apparently, am his direct opposite (duh).

To another question, yes, I have been in individual counseling since my discovery, and we are on our second marriage counselor. NC has never been established since she works with him, and there is no movement toward her leaving that job. Her continued contact with OP has done more lasting damage than the EA would have done if NC had been established.

Yes, I know. At this point, it's all my fault because she has not had to deal with any real consequences beyond my obvious hurt and anger. 20 years of marriage and two small children make these very difficult waters to navigate. I don't want to make a mistake, but we are slipping into the abyss for sure. It's been a horrible nine months, and it's not getting any better. She refuses to either fully acknowledge or educate herself on just exactly how damaging her EA has been to both me and our marriage. "He was just a friend!" (150 private cell phone calls after work, private emails, etc. I never knew a thing.) That's quite a friend.

My unhappiness because of this, coupled with my anger because of her denials and inability/unwillingness to establish NC, has resulted in her further distancing herself from me and our marriage. Where did it all go?

March 29, 2009

When I think of him, when I go by his office (ten feet away from hers), I simply feel peace. Great peace."

AKA - A fix, an emotional need he fills. IS it real long lasting love? My guess is no. But whatever she is or has felt for the OM IS going to continue to affect you and your marriage, what she feels for you. She's STILL in a total affair fog and isn't thinking clearly at all, it's still ALL about her. She isn't thinking of you, how this is affecting you, the marriage ...

Question is, how long are you going to put up with it? She will act this way for as long as she is allowed to. She isn't and hasn't suffered ANY real consquences of her actions, choices to allow herself to fall for another man.

I know you don't want to be the bad guy, but the only way you'll get some real truth from her is, IF you get her out of the house and let her be alone, suffer alone and face what she's done and about to lose..

March 29, 2009

Tami - WS mentioning "peace" when she was describing what she feels about OM is in reference to how he just emanates just an all-encompasing feeling of "peace". She has described him as "caring, gentle, a good listener, compassionate, mindful etc." He is a Buddhist, and that really struck a chord with her and her newfound (last couple of years) interest in Buddhism. The following morning, in an argument, she yelled at me, "What's the opposite of 'peace?' War!" So, I, apparently, am his direct opposite (duh).

I see. You have to forgive me, but I had to roll my eyes when I read this. Everyone in my family is Buddhist. Like Christianity, it teaches about love, forgiveness, PEACE, etc...I do not see anything fundamentally different being taught about virtues and values. Then again, I am spiritually handicap, so I might have missed it.. Sure there are things that are different-Jesus, for example-a social reformer-he was in great shape-apparently he walked a lot during his time here on earth. Of course, we have Buddha-nothing like Jesus-but a great thinker, of course, he should have walked a lot instead of sitting there crossed-legged, looking like a mature Pillsbury dough boy! (Just Kidding, hope I made YOU smile,OP!) That aside, I believe, Christianity also says if you have the love of GOD in your heart, you will emanate all those good virtues...Anyhow, your wife has romanticized this OM--"oh my Buddha, he is soooo ZEN!"...Perhaps, it is time to have a talk with the OM?

I am not a fan of confronting third parties, but, since your wife insists on putting this man on a pedestal then I think it is time to talk to this guy. No self respecting buddhist would tolerating causing pain to another person.

Or , time for ultimatums...!

March 29, 2009

No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. If the roles were reversed do you think she would be so passive and accepting as you have been? She does not respect you. If you do not respect yourself then who will?

Agree. Time she feels the pain you felt.

Time to play hardball. You've been too patient IMO about her finding another job. She really has no motivation to, because you allow her to string you along. She's at "peace" with him. What kind of BS in that? She still loves him and has feelings for him, she just doesn't want to admit that to you.

Time for a change. Here's what you need to do IMO:

1. Give her 2 weeks to quit her job. Period, end of story.

2. If she doesn't, tell her your marriage is done, SHE'S moving out, and you're filing for divorce.

3. No contact, whatsoever with OM. Any violations of this, She's gone.

4. Complete transparency on her part, access to all cell phone's, computer's, etc. (If she quits her job, chances are she'll still try to "keep up", with him)

5. Continued counseling IC and MC.

Tell her she must agree to ll of these, or your marriage is done. This in no compromise.

She still in the fog about her affair and sometime you have to him 'em upside the head with a 2X4 to snap them out of it.

Also, is the OM married? Does his wife know about this EA. If she doesn't then she deserves to know and you're the best person to tell her.

Good Luck and God Bless

March 29, 2009

Tami - she definitley still has him on a pedestal if this far into the destruction of our marriage her thoughts of OM are that he is "total peace." I have thought about confronting him, but I've not seen real evidence that it would bear much positive fruit. He is not married. WS has said, even to herself privately through her writings, that she doesn't know if he loves her back. I have no clue what he thinks about her. This could all be just sport to him (which you are right about; no self-respecting Buddhist would abide by causing such pain and wreaking such destruction to another person and his/her marriage.)

But regardless if he "shares that love" as my wife wrote to herself, he certainly allowed her to play footsies and fall in love with him for quite a long time, a couple of years even, before I found out. Not very "mindful" or Zen of him, I would say.

But contacting him personally? What good could come out of it other than to really illuminate to him the extent of my wife's feelings for him (which I suspect he already knows, even if he didn't reciprocate those feelings. He certainly allowed her to act out her feelings with him, even if she didn't actually express them verbally to him.) I would like to think if a married woman called me 150 times in a year's time and emailed me and instant messaged me contantly at work and accompanied me alone to lunch (all without her spouse's knowledge), I'd certainly be under the impression that she had feelings for me. And even if I didn't share those same deep feelings for her and was just enjoying the flattery and sport of it all, I'd certainly know it was not the right thing to do...at least from a "mindfully Zen" state of mind and existence ; )

I guess neither of them have been wearing their WWBD bracelets.

Funny how these two spiritually enlightened souls couldn't even see the irony in just how their "innocent" quest for "greater enlightenment, peace and mindfulness" resulted in just the opposite. Well, maybe in the wholesale destruction of our marriage and family, she at least attained greater enlightment and mindfulness. Peace, though? That ship sailed a long time ago.

I don't know about contacting him personally. I sure have thought about it though.

We are at a total impasse. She says it's my inability to "focus on the bigger issues of our marriage instead of staying focused on her EA and continued contact with OM" that is ruining our marriage. She's right to some degree. Of course, from my perspective it's hard to focus on those other issues while there's this ginormous elephant in the room. I know I'm not crazy, but it's hard to not think that sometimes.

Our marriage counselor, thus far (it's Imago therapy) is more focused on the notion that "once you learn to communicate better, you can begin rebuilding that trust...at that point, maybe OM will become less of an issue". I've given him the benefit of the doubt for 8 sessions now, but I'm ready for him to move beyond the simple "now mirror back to her what she said" platitudes and get to the meat and potatoes of the fact that she betrayed me with another man and how is she going to deal with the fact that her continued contact with him is a major obstacle for me to get beyond before I can even begin to really take any kind of marriage counseling seriously.

Am I crazy here, folks? Or as my wife believes, just emotionally stunted because I'm not mature enough, dare I say "mindful" enough, to just move beyond the fact that she still sees this guy and still has unadmitted real feelings for him?

I know I'll take it on the chin for appearing indecisive in my actions (despite being in intense therapy, both IC and MC), but 20 years of marriage and two small kids certainly contributes not want to make a grevious error.

Thanks.

March 29, 2009

*sigh*

What's the point five&dime? There is NOTHING anyone can tell you since YOU won't ACT. And since you haven't ACTED your situation has gotten predictably worse for YOU.

Every contact, every sight, every word and email CONTINUES her A. Its that simple...and you have had 9 months to witness this for yourself.

Something ends tomorrow. I'll let you choose.

1) She ends the A. This really means she quits her job - or, if you can get him to quit then she can stay. Or if you can get him fired go for it. What have you go to lose?

2) You end the M. She isn't changing and why should she? She has you at home and her "soul mate" at work. Damn...she is sitting in the catbird seat.

Here's what I would do and why.

1) Have your lawyer draw up the divorce and file it this week. Nine months and no change...this is EXACTLY why I filed for D on my stbxw...lack of change.

2) Have her served at work. On your divorce petition cite infidelity and list her "lover" as the other involved party.

3) Move out.

4) Continue IC and MC. Your MC has now morphed from "Save the M" to "divorce in a healthy" way. And yes...it really helps.

As I mentioned, I filed not long ago myself and my W moved out last weekend. And I filed for exactly the same reasons you did - lack of CHANGE. I refused to live with the daily slap in the face. I call it self respect.

We have two kids, ages 5 and 3 so yeah, I know all about having young kids in this.

Did it anyway. Call it self respect or maybe its the realization that my moods wear off on them. And I CANNOT handle my stbxw lack of change...in time, I will crack and eventually break. And that inevitable future will damage my kids far greater than a D.

Its your future as well.

Stop being weak. Stop being selfish. Put you and your kids first.

CHANGE.

March 29, 2009

Tami - she definitley still has him on a pedestal if this far into the destruction of our marriage her thoughts of OM are that he is "total peace." I have thought about confronting him, but I've not seen real evidence that it would bear much positive fruit. He is not married. WS has said, even to herself privately through her writings, that she doesn't know if he loves her back. I have no clue what he thinks about her. This could all be just sport to him (which you are right about; no self-respecting Buddhist would abide by causing such pain and wreaking such destruction to another person and his/her marriage.)

But regardless if he "shares that love" as my wife wrote to herself, he certainly allowed her to play footsies and fall in love with him for quite a long time, a couple of years even, before I found out. Not very "mindful" or Zen of him, I would say.

But contacting him personally? What good could come out of it other than to really illuminate to him the extent of my wife's feelings for him (which I suspect he already knows, even if he didn't reciprocate those feelings. He certainly allowed her to act out her feelings with him, even if she didn't actually express them verbally to him.) I would like to think if a married woman called me 150 times in a year's time and emailed me and instant messaged me contantly at work and accompanied me alone to lunch (all without her spouse's knowledge), I'd certainly be under the impression that she had feelings for me. And even if I didn't share those same deep feelings for her and was just enjoying the flattery and sport of it all, I'd certainly know it was not the right thing to do...at least from a "mindfully Zen" state of mind and existence ; )

I guess neither of them have been wearing their WWBD bracelets.

Funny how these two spiritually enlightened souls couldn't even see the irony in just how their "innocent" quest for "greater enlightenment, peace and mindfulness" resulted in just the opposite. Well, maybe in the wholesale destruction of our marriage and family, she at least attained greater enlightment and mindfulness. Peace, though? That ship sailed a long time ago.

I don't know about contacting him personally. I sure have thought about it though.

We are at a total impasse. She says it's my inability to "focus on the bigger issues of our marriage instead of staying focused on her EA and continued contact with OM" that is ruining our marriage. She's right to some degree. Of course, from my perspective it's hard to focus on those other issues while there's this ginormous elephant in the room. I know I'm not crazy, but it's hard to not think that sometimes.

Our marriage counselor, thus far (it's Imago therapy) is more focused on the notion that "once you learn to communicate better, you can begin rebuilding that trust...at that point, maybe OM will become less of an issue". I've given him the benefit of the doubt for 8 sessions now, but I'm ready for him to move beyond the simple "now mirror back to her what she said" platitudes and get to the meat and potatoes of the fact that she betrayed me with another man and how is she going to deal with the fact that her continued contact with him is a major obstacle for me to get beyond before I can even begin to really take any kind of marriage counseling seriously.

Am I crazy here, folks? Or as my wife believes, just emotionally stunted because I'm not mature enough, dare I say "mindful" enough, to just move beyond the fact that she still sees this guy and still has unadmitted real feelings for him?

I know I'll take it on the chin for appearing indecisive in my actions (despite being in intense therapy, both IC and MC), but 20 years of marriage and two small kids certainly contributes not want to make a grevious error.

Thanks.

Dude this is pitiful. You need to GROW A PAIR AND BE A MAN. Time to take charge of your marriage. We can give you all the advise in the world, and all of it to this point has been on the money, but if you don't heed it, then we're all wasting our time.

I'm outta here.

Peace.

March 29, 2009

You have to decide what is best for you and then make it happen. But as long as you leave your fate to outside influences, you may as well move over and get ready to move the OM into your marriage full time. The 3 of you should be happy together. If this isn't what you want, get moving.

March 29, 2009

Hi again five&dime! your buddha/zen zings were funny, with a tinged of sadness...but nonetheless made me laugh ! I know, I'm disturbed that way.

Let me ask you, what is it about this "friendship" that bothers you so much? What if it IS really JUST a friendship? Will she be allowed to keep a friendship like that while loving you and being married to you?

I wouldn't worry about you taking time in deciding what to do. You are being methodical and being careful. But you DO need to step it up a little...you cannot remain where you are.

BTW, the OM is in 'total peace"? Right . Gosh, how old is your wife?

March 29, 2009

The correct answer should have been indifferent instead of peace! If your wife doesn't feel she owes you the respect required of a partner in a marriage to be open, honest, and completely truthful then you no longer have a marriage. The questions that begs though are how does she truly feel about you, and, although you both remain in the home, how intimate and loving is your connection, and, lastly, knowing the answers to the former two questions where do you and your marriage's future stand?

March 29, 2009

I have to agree with everyone else here. There is no point in posting if you aren't going to change. It is obvious she WILL NOT change and giving her 9 months of knowing and not changing it quite a strectch.

That said, my main reason for posting is to tell you that my H and I absolutely hated IMAGO therapy and quickly got another MC. You need to find a blunt therapist who specializes in infidelity and will get to the issues IMMEDIATELY. That mirror back and talking about self crap does not work in severe issues like this. In reality, it is allowing her to express herself and make it seem that she is fine and you don't understand her. It is BS.

Find a new therapist ASAP and make sure you talk to them on the phone or even 10-15 minutes in person and let them know you are tired of getting the run around at sessions and want to focus on the affair. You need to find a therapist that says NC is the ONLY way to continue.

March 29, 2009

....There is no point in posting if you aren't going to change.

Well, five&dime can make that determination himself. Maybe posting here is cathartic to him...who cares? let the man post and express whatever he wants to say about his issues. It is not like we have to respond to him...!

March 30, 2009

I have to agree with everyone else here. There is no point in posting if you aren't going to change. It is obvious she WILL NOT change and giving her 9 months of knowing and not changing it quite a strectch.

That said, my main reason for posting is to tell you that my H and I absolutely hated IMAGO therapy and quickly got another MC. You need to find a blunt therapist who specializes in infidelity and will get to the issues IMMEDIATELY. That mirror back and talking about self crap does not work in severe issues like this. In reality, it is allowing her to express herself and make it seem that she is fine and you don't understand her. It is BS.

Find a new therapist ASAP and make sure you talk to them on the phone or even 10-15 minutes in person and let them know you are tired of getting the run around at sessions and want to focus on the affair. You need to find a therapist that says NC is the ONLY way to continue.

Not all types of counselors work for everyone. I am not familiar with the IMAGO, but I don't presume to know what works for everyone. Posting is a way for him to see his own words in black and white. To read them aloud if he needs to and to see the varying responses may lead him in the directions that is best for him.

March 30, 2009

IMHO, you need a new counselor. I do not think there is any need to talk to the other guy. THE PROBLEM IS WITH YOUR WIFE. She is the one continuing the contact, IF SHE WANTS HER MGE., AND HER KIDS SHE CAN BREAK THIS OFF AT ANY TIME. It sounds like this guy will not pursue her if she does break it off. He has never pushed beyond the talking stage. Problem is a mge's., problems and private moments are not to be discussed at length with strangers, as she is doing. 5 and dime you really do need to push her to go NC. or you need to do something to shake her up. You could make up a list of atty's and let her know you are going to discuss divorce you don't have to do anything beyond a free consult, but she is not going to move until you push her. If she sees you going to an atty, that may wake her inner peace up. You may also tell her to leave the mge., as in seperation, if she can't act like she is fully and completly married. There are things you can do, but no matter what as most have said here DO SOMETHING.

March 30, 2009

...You could make up a list of atty's and let her know you are going to discuss divorce you don't have to do anything beyond a free consult, but she is not going to move until you push her. If she sees you going to an atty, that may wake her inner peace up. You may also tell her to leave the mge., as in seperation, if she can't act like she is fully and completly married. There are things you can do, but no matter what as most have said here DO SOMETHING.

I agree. The OP MUST "do something" but I do not agree on empty threats (i.e. making up a list of attys., etc). If you are going to threaten someone, be prepared to follow through. There is nothing more empowering than calling out a threat and discovering it was just an empty threat. Especially, if the one threatening then starts to back pedal...AND apologize...!

March 30, 2009

She is living in a fantasy world.....his farts smell of magic pixie dust.

He is perfect in every way.

March 30, 2009

Tami, you asked me "what is it about this "friendship" that bothers you so much?" The answer is that she fell for this guy and carried on an EA behind my back for quite some time. I discovered it by reading her personal emails to/from him (I had never read her emails before, ever.) Then I discovered 150 private cell phone calls, then text messages. Then I found her work emails to/from him. He's the I.T. guy in their 65-person office, and he hooked up instant messaging just between the two of them. They went out alone numerous times, which she lied about (and which I know on this forum 100% convicts her of PA as well. Of that, I will never know for sure unless she tells me.) There's more, but I think you get it. The evidence was overwhelming, yet it took her nearly two months to finally admit to "developing tender feelings and a crush" on him. I found her journals where she wrote "she couldn't tell me the truth because it would 'end our marriage'" and that "it was 'so hard to end that truth' despite my knowing about it." She also used the word "love" to describe her feelings for him in her journal.

You asked, "What if it IS really JUST a friendship?" I don't doubt it started out that way, but over the years that friendship grew, and she eventually crossed over to the dark side. It's all very cliche', but it happened, and it's real.

March 30, 2009

I am going to ask you something, what type of relationship do you want with your wife?

What type do you think you will get if you "man up" like some here are suggesting?

Some will tell you love is a verb not a noun, is that the type of relationship you want? Can she just change actions and show you love but not feel it and would you be happy with that? Or do you want the actions with the true feelings? Because unless someone WANTS to come back doing the "fake it until you make it" is a useless exercise.

This maybe what you get, you cannot force someone back to you. She has to want to come back to you and if after 9 months she is still in the longing stage this maybe what you get.

So either hang in and hope things get better, or do as jwi71 did and move on.

March 30, 2009

Tami - she definitley still has him on a pedestal if this far into the destruction of our marriage her thoughts of OM are that he is "total peace." I have thought about confronting him, but I've not seen real evidence that it would bear much positive fruit. He is not married. WS has said, even to herself privately through her writings, that she doesn't know if he loves her back. I have no clue what he thinks about her. This could all be just sport to him (which you are right about; no self-respecting Buddhist would abide by causing such pain and wreaking such destruction to another person and his/her marriage.)

But regardless if he "shares that love" as my wife wrote to herself, he certainly allowed her to play footsies and fall in love with him for quite a long time, a couple of years even, before I found out. Not very "mindful" or Zen of him, I would say.

But contacting him personally? What good could come out of it other than to really illuminate to him the extent of my wife's feelings for him (which I suspect he already knows, even if he didn't reciprocate those feelings. He certainly allowed her to act out her feelings with him, even if she didn't actually express them verbally to him.) I would like to think if a married woman called me 150 times in a year's time and emailed me and instant messaged me contantly at work and accompanied me alone to lunch (all without her spouse's knowledge), I'd certainly be under the impression that she had feelings for me. And even if I didn't share those same deep feelings for her and was just enjoying the flattery and sport of it all, I'd certainly know it was not the right thing to do...at least from a "mindfully Zen" state of mind and existence ; )

I guess neither of them have been wearing their WWBD bracelets.

Funny how these two spiritually enlightened souls couldn't even see the irony in just how their "innocent" quest for "greater enlightenment, peace and mindfulness" resulted in just the opposite. Well, maybe in the wholesale destruction of our marriage and family, she at least attained greater enlightment and mindfulness. Peace, though? That ship sailed a long time ago.

I don't know about contacting him personally. I sure have thought about it though.

We are at a total impasse. She says it's my inability to "focus on the bigger issues of our marriage instead of staying focused on her EA and continued contact with OM" that is ruining our marriage. She's right to some degree. Of course, from my perspective it's hard to focus on those other issues while there's this ginormous elephant in the room. I know I'm not crazy, but it's hard to not think that sometimes.

Our marriage counselor, thus far (it's Imago therapy) is more focused on the notion that "once you learn to communicate better, you can begin rebuilding that trust...at that point, maybe OM will become less of an issue". I've given him the benefit of the doubt for 8 sessions now, but I'm ready for him to move beyond the simple "now mirror back to her what she said" platitudes and get to the meat and potatoes of the fact that she betrayed me with another man and how is she going to deal with the fact that her continued contact with him is a major obstacle for me to get beyond before I can even begin to really take any kind of marriage counseling seriously.

Am I crazy here, folks? Or as my wife believes, just emotionally stunted because I'm not mature enough, dare I say "mindful" enough, to just move beyond the fact that she still sees this guy and still has unadmitted real feelings for him?

I know I'll take it on the chin for appearing indecisive in my actions (despite being in intense therapy, both IC and MC), but 20 years of marriage and two small kids certainly contributes not want to make a grevious error.

Thanks.

The truth is, after her affair, you are the one that is putting the nails in the coffin of your marriage. Your inaction, and empty threats, mean nothing to her now. You have enabled her to develop a deeper relationship, that most likely cost you your marriage. The affair was not your fault, but being weak has destroyed any respect she has for you. You have been cuckolded by her. So now only the greatest measure will have any affect. You have only 2 choices. Continue allowing the affair, and babysit the kids while he bangs her. Or have a little self respect, file for divorce, leave her, and see if she will work to get you back. There is no other way. Whining and begging won't cut it. But hey, its your marriage. Or rather it was your marriage.

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9 months later, WS (EA) describes feelings of "great peace" for OP co-worker...

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