Why do women get mad when men speak honestly

[clv0116]

A friend just told me "Female anger is the weather vane of truth" ... made me think of this thread.

[Jersey Shortie]

You're not fooling anyone Clv.

[PinkKittyKat]

My bf thinks that seeking to be around other women naked is cheating.... as much as if I stripped down with no touching for some dude. Or if I paid some guy to wag his bare junk in my face.

 

He said he'd be furious, money or no money. He thinks strip clubs are gross though.

 

His friends all give him a hard time, cause even since he was younger, he'd wait in the car for everyone when they wanted to go into the peeler bar.

[Ruby Slippers]

I can tell you, looking on at my male peers, this is a clear sign of a dominant male. He surveys women as potentials but commits to one. That said, his eye is always on the potentials. Women compete with each other for his attention. They have little interest in those males who have eyes only for them. Socio-sexual popularity.

This is very much not the case for me. My last boyfriend had quite the roving eye, which was a first for me. Maybe others before him had just as much of a roving eye, but with them I never noticed it, whereas it was obvious with this guy. I found it disrespectful and a huge turnoff.

 

The guy before him, the love of my life thus far, seemed only to have eyes for me. We were usually lost in each other's eyes, and everywhere we went, people looked at us with goofy, hopeful smiles. It was a trip. I never felt more radiant or beautiful. It totally brought out my inner goddess.

[carhill]

The guy before him, the love of my life thus far, seemed only to have eyes for me.

 

Seriously, what happened to him? Did he die?

 

Regarding the last BF with the roving eye, was that something that you always noticed but dismissed initially, or did you only discover it later? Think about the aspects of him which attracted you to him. That's the critical part.

[Jersey Shortie]

Yeah, I got to disagree with you Carhill. Women feel special when their partner treats them like the only woman for him. Not when the go out, he pays attention to every other woman walking around even if he has his arm wrapped around you. You glance at a woman or see someone attractive, I get it. You start lusting or making it your side point everytime you go out when you are with your girl, not so cool.

[carhill]

I'm merely telling you what I see from men who are successful with women, both in marriages and LTR's. They're widely attractive. They dominate. Women are attracted. EOS.

 

I don't agree with the psychology of the roving eye and it isn't my natural setpoint but my perspective really is irrelevant to the way things are. I have experimented and, as often mentioned here on LS, found women to say one thing and act in a completely different way. Are those women you? Absolutely not.

[Jersey Shortie]

Perhaps we have a different view of what is success with women. A man that tries to keep his lady in check by flirting with other women or a man that really respects his lady and treats her right.

 

By the way, I've run into many occasions where men say one thing but do the opposite. Oh of course, no one here. Lets not be too condesending to each other shall we.

[carhill]

Nice try but no bite. You know I'm not being condescending. Women...

[soserious1]

Carhill is cool

 

My experiences with the roving eye thing is that an occasional glance or once over was fine but when guys were really obvious with ogling that it made social situations ackward and weird. Sitting there talking to a guy who doesn't answer because he's checking out some woman's ass is difficult.

 

My ex would do that.. and when it was clear that he'd been ignoring me he'd turn back to me and say "ëxcuse me what did you say?" I would usually respond with " oh nothing important enough to bother you with" I would then make sure to keep my eyes firmly downcast on my plate thru the rest of the meal, push the food around with my fork till such time as he'd finished his meal and gawking Id have em bag my food up, pay the bill and then, pleading sudden illness or fatigue I'd head for home.

 

Over time, I just stopped going out with him, due to his staring, open comments about other women and the way he'd stop talking mid-sentence to stare at other women.It was just easier to not go anyplace with him if I could avoid it.

[carhill]

From a partner who clearly apparently despised you, that sounds like typical, if boorish, behavior. The conundrum is those dynamics where that behavior is couched in an apparent and desirous context, with the roving eye as the aberration. What to do then?

 

Personally, even if indifferent to my wife prior to or after divorcing, I would never disrespect her (as a person) in that manner. Such behavior speaks to my character. As a male and a pragmatist, I'm merely reporting what I observe to work in the world, not to agree with it or accept it as my own mantra. Honesty

[Sam Spade]

The Fifth Amendment was created because its architects’ wives “drove them ape-**** asking questions that they’d be better off simply refusing to answer.”

 

[soserious1]

From a partner who clearly apparently despised you, that sounds like typical, if boorish, behavior. The conundrum is those dynamics where that behavior is couched in an apparent and desirous context, with the roving eye as the aberration. What to do then?

 

Personally, even if indifferent to my wife prior to or after divorcing, I would never disrespect her (as a person) in that manner. Such behavior speaks to my character. As a male and a pragmatist, I'm merely reporting what I observe to work in the world, not to agree with it or accept it as my own mantra. Honesty

 

I know several women who say that their husbands who are loving at home, having the ogling in public problem really badly,most of those women admit to avoiding go out with their husbands whenever they can in order to avoid fights, strained silences as their husband's stop in mid -sentece to check out the bumber crop of new talent.

[Sam Spade]

I know several women who say that their husbands who are loving at home, having the ogling in public problem really badly,most of those women admit to avoiding go out with their husbands whenever they can in order to avoid fights, strained silences as their husband's stop in mid -sentece to check out the bumber crop of new talent.

 

 

If it is that bad, I'd imagine that it signifies much deeper problems in the marriage, rather than just poor taste on the side of the husbands. I don't mean to make any excuses for this, but I'm willing to bet 50$ that there's a lot more to this problem.

 

I personally don't even notice other women once in a relationship (friends literally have to poke me and tell me "Dude, she's checking you out"). (But if I'm in a relationship where my balls are constantly busted, sex is nothing to write home about etc. I wouldn't be surprised if I catch myself looking around. But, that too would be unlikely, since I'll simply leave...)

[TM42]

But more often then not, when a female notices a male's "need" for her, she abuses it and tries to take control of her male counterpart and the relationship.

 

Men do the same thing. I don't know why we waste so much time arguing about who is more ****ed up, men or women. Humans in general have the potential to be very messed up. These messed up people act very messed upedly in relationships.

 

Not all women are money grubbing skanks just like not all men are cheating liars. Just the ones I date, it seems. LOL jk.

[soserious1]

If it is that bad, I'd imagine that it signifies much deeper problems in the marriage, rather than just poor taste on the side of the husbands. I don't mean to make any excuses for this, but I'm willing to bet 50$ that there's a lot more to this problem.

 

I personally don't even notice other women once in a relationship (friends literally have to poke me and tell me "Dude, she's checking you out"). (But if I'm in a relationship where my balls are constantly busted, sex is nothing to write home about etc. I wouldn't be surprised if I catch myself looking around. But, that too would be unlikely, since I'll simply leave...)

 

I keep forgetting myself, of course if a married man is ogling women in public while he's with his wife there is obviously a problem in the marriage and it's clearly her fault for busting his balls!

 

Guess what? most older men I know of are quite interested in sex but not with their older wives...there is no marital sex in a lot of cases not because the wife isn't interested or willing but rather because the husband is too busy jerking off to porn to be bothered.

 

Before I divorced we had literally zero sex in the last year and were probably intimate 4 times total in the 2 yrs before that. I have several friends in the same situation. They avoid going places with their husbands whenever possible at this point because they wish to avoid the humilation and to also avoid the potential for those "ball busting" arguments you speak of.

 

Btw, I did leave and paid him handsomely for the right to do so.

[Sam Spade]

I keep forgetting myself, of course if a married man is ogling women in public while he's with his wife there is obviously a problem in the marriage and it's clearly her fault for busting his balls!

 

Guess what? most older men I know of are quite interested in sex but not with their older wives...there is no marital sex in a lot of cases not because the wife isn't interested or willing but rather because the husband is too busy jerking off to porn to be bothered.

 

Before I divorced we had literally zero sex in the last year and were probably intimate 4 times total in the 2 yrs before that. I have several friends in the same situation. They avoid going places with their husbands whenever possible at this point because they wish to avoid the humilation and to also avoid the potential for those "ball busting" arguments you speak of.

 

Btw, I did leave and paid him handsomely for the right to do so.

 

 

Well I didn't mean it to sound so one-sided. The bottom line is that hsould persistent oggling occur, it is in most cases more serious issue than just enjoying the scenery. Which everybody likes to do and I think it's fine, as long as you don't go out of your way to do it etc..

[Ruby Slippers]

Seriously, what happened to him? Did he die?

His family was crazy and threatened me, and he didn't really stand up for me. Among other things.

 

Regarding the last BF with the roving eye, was that something that you always noticed but dismissed initially, or did you only discover it later?

I noticed it right away. I was trying on the casual approach with him at first, so I dismissed it as insignificant. A couple of months into the relationship, he pushed for an escalation of the emotional side, and after some convincing, I went for it. Shortly after that, we had a talk about the ogling, which I found inconsiderate.

 

He asked me if I wanted him to stop and said he would. I said that wasn't the point -- it's not my business to police anyone's behavior. I didn't really know how to handle it. It hurt me, but I think it's pointless to ask someone to pretend to be something he's not. I talked to a friend about it, and the best I could come up with was to ask him to "be more subtle about it", which he did, for the most part.

 

Think about the aspects of him which attracted you to him. That's the critical part.

Sure, I get what you're saying. I realize that the flipside of the ogling was his assertiveness, sexual skillz, positive masculine qualities, etc. All that went a long way to build a strong physical connection. But the "dark side" of the dominant personality (ogling, brash and insensitive comments, inconsistency of emotional connection, struggle over commitment) are what tore the relationship down, from my perspective.

 

Personally, I have learned that I am overall less happy with an alpha type, and I tend to regard them with some skepticism now. They are the ones who are always itching for the conquest, and I don't think most women who want something serious are truly happy with guys like that. They're great for something shallow and meaningless, IMO -- not so great for anything more.

[Ruby Slippers]

I know several women who say that their husbands who are loving at home, having the ogling in public problem really badly,most of those women admit to avoiding go out with their husbands whenever they can in order to avoid fights, strained silences as their husband's stop in mid -sentece to check out the bumber crop of new talent.

I can relate. I had NEVER experienced anything like it, but with this guy, I got to a point where I didn't want to go out with him for exactly this reason. I didn't want to introduce him to my friends because I knew he'd leer and I'd want to vomit. I began to see other women as enemies! It was a terrible, terrible feeling that I had never ever felt before. I felt almost crazy.

 

I tried to just quiet the feeling, but man, it was this intense emotional reaction from my gut. Screaming at me "This is all wrong!" I never said a word to him about it or did anything to reveal what was going through my mind, but I'm sure it came out in my behavior somehow. And I'll never forget what a sickening feeling it was.

[Ruby Slippers]

(But if I'm in a relationship where my balls are constantly busted, sex is nothing to write home about etc. I wouldn't be surprised if I catch myself looking around. But, that too would be unlikely, since I'll simply leave...)

I thought this, too, but he told me it was something he always did and would always do. He raved about the relationship and the sex, and even moved 500 miles to my city to continue the relationship, so the feelings sure seemed genuine.

[carhill]

Personally, I have learned that I am overall less happy with an alpha type, and I tend to regard them with some skepticism now. They are the ones who are always itching for the conquest, and I don't think most women who want something serious are truly happy with guys like that. They're great for something shallow and meaningless, IMO -- not so great for anything more.

 

Interesting. Perhaps he was merely a member of one subset of the overall alpha group.

 

Would you say he was good for a "convenient" relationship, where a certain set of needs were fulfilled, but somehow some sizzle was missing from the overall steak? I'm thinking that the honeymoon period was fabulous and then, later, that deeper emotional bond which should develop just never did, perhaps in part due to the behaviors noted and perhaps because you didn't connect with him on a deeper, more elemental level. Opinion? See, I think such relationships serve a purpose, and can be a complete and satisfying relationship for someone whose needs are met by one; it's what makes us all different. Perhaps, such a relationship can be transitory, a precursor to a more fulfilling and global connection.

 

Anyway, thanks for sharing observations which largely jive with my experiences. Some women get so deeply enmeshed in what you experienced that they take it on as their truth. This is a revelation I took away from MC regarding compatibility. Some women *like* convenient relationships. I now believe my wife is one of them. I was too much of a nuisance (with my desires for emotional intimacy and all that "sappy" stuff) for her, IMO. Something for everyone, like your experiences have shown.

[PinkKittyKat]

I dumped the last guy with a roving eye.

 

My attitude is that if he's still looking for the next upgrade, then I don't need him.

 

I don't check other people out, I'm taken. My bf has the same opinion.

 

One thing that really bugs me is when guys walking with their gf's/wives check me out. I'm talking OBVIOUS ogling. Some of them are even holding hands with their lady at the same time! And let me tell you, their ladies can damn well see what they are doing and the facial expressions range from resigned frustration, hurt and fury. Dear sirs, while you're staring at my legs and tits, I'm glancing at your hurt woman and making an apologetic smile.

 

Men like that disgust me. Learn to keep the eyeballs and tongue in the head!

[sally4sara]

Interesting. Perhaps he was merely a member of one subset of the overall alpha group.

 

Would you say he was good for a "convenient" relationship, where a certain set of needs were fulfilled, but somehow some sizzle was missing from the overall steak? I'm thinking that the honeymoon period was fabulous and then, later, that deeper emotional bond which should develop just never did, perhaps in part due to the behaviors noted and perhaps because you didn't connect with him on a deeper, more elemental level. Opinion? See, I think such relationships serve a purpose, and can be a complete and satisfying relationship for someone whose needs are met by one; it's what makes us all different. Perhaps, such a relationship can be transitory, a precursor to a more fulfilling and global connection.

 

Anyway, thanks for sharing observations which largely jive with my experiences. Some women get so deeply enmeshed in what you experienced that they take it on as their truth. This is a revelation I took away from MC regarding compatibility. Some women *like* convenient relationships. I now believe my wife is one of them. I was too much of a nuisance (with my desires for emotional intimacy and all that "sappy" stuff) for her, IMO. Something for everyone, like your experiences have shown.

 

Did everyone have a nice weekend?

 

You've described something here that sounds familiar to my younger experiences.

Sometimes I would be consumed with earning the trust of some self described bitter nice guy who was trying on his "inner motherf***er" as someone else put it. I guess I found the angsty barrier a tasty project.

But once the hoops had been jumped through and I was deemed "not one of THOSE women", I'd be faced with my elephant long memory of all the games they'd played in getting to a level playing field. I'd find them obnoxious, self preserving cowards that I couldn't count on without babying and coaxing. I'd done all the work for them. Of course they loved me; they got the benefit of someone proving themselves safe to them without any effort out of them. Now that THEY were ready to love freely, I wanted none of it because I knew I'd deserved it all along.

This is why I don't bother with the self professed alpha males. If they were actually alpha males, it would be in their actions rather than words. I've found real alpha males don't generally think too much about whether they are alpha males or not. And the ones that do think about it all the time are just scared little boys. You know how it is with most men; irrational and always saying one thing but doing the other.

Carhill, you probably are an alpha male. Unfortunately, your wife thrives on games.

[sally4sara]

I dumped the last guy with a roving eye.

 

My attitude is that if he's still looking for the next upgrade, then I don't need him.

 

I don't check other people out, I'm taken. My bf has the same opinion.

 

One thing that really bugs me is when guys walking with their gf's/wives check me out. I'm talking OBVIOUS ogling. Some of them are even holding hands with their lady at the same time! And let me tell you, their ladies can damn well see what they are doing and the facial expressions range from resigned frustration, hurt and fury. Dear sirs, while you're staring at my legs and tits, I'm glancing at your hurt woman and making an apologetic smile.

 

Men like that disgust me. Learn to keep the eyeballs and tongue in the head!

 

Sounds a lot like male bashing up in here.

Be careful pink kitty; you'll loose all the male approval you earned in this thread! We all know men only ogle strange ladies when their woman acts like a sexless shrew.

[Ruby Slippers]

Would you say he was good for a "convenient" relationship, where a certain set of needs were fulfilled, but somehow some sizzle was missing from the overall steak? I'm thinking that the honeymoon period was fabulous and then, later, that deeper emotional bond which should develop just never did, perhaps in part due to the behaviors noted and perhaps because you didn't connect with him on a deeper, more elemental level. Opinion?

I have never made relationship decisions (or any other important ones, for that matter) based on convenience. I'm going for real love, passion, and connection every time. But I did try on a lighter approach in the beginning with this guy. I communicated all this to him -- my usual more serious and intense approach, and the fact that I was trying to lighten that up this time. He had always been one of my biggest advocates for making decisions with the head rather than the heart, and I ended up trying out this approach on him. And he, usually so stoic and strong, became emotional more quickly than I did.

 

Sizzle was NEVER in short supply -- nor was steak. It had more fire than any relationship I'd had, by far, and he said the same was true for him. The physical side was everything I'd ever wanted and then some, truly. I really miss that.

 

He admitted to me that he'd always struggled with emotional investment and commitment but said I was "the love of his life" and he wanted to marry me. I think what lured him in was my light attitude in the beginning, and the clear evidence that I could take care of myself very well. I wasn't trying to lure him in -- I was just trying to protect myself a little better this time. I didn't act like I needed him (because I didn't), so that took all the pressure off.

 

Not surprisingly, the more emotionally invested I became, the more things like the leering hurt.

 

Once he moved here and we reached a certain level of seriousness, he freaked and withdrew -- standard operating procedure for him. He seemed to be constantly struggling and swinging wildly back and forth from real closeness to total lack of emotional investment. He had no problem connecting emotionally -- when that was good, it was just as intense as the physical connection. But he couldn't sustain it. And every time he swung away, my emotional investment deflated a little bit more, and I finally reached a breaking point.