Why do many men kid themselves with the whole younger woman thing?

[samspade]

A woman can be strong, independent, and successful without being masculine. Unfortunately, a lot of American women think that in order to succeed, they need act like penisless men in a relationship as well as in business. It's a huge turnoff (for me, anyway), just as I'm sure a feminized man is for a lot of women out there.

 

There is nothing threatening about a successful woman. A lot of bitter, angry women use their success as an excuse for their lack of appeal.

 

(Cat-power, I don't think you are like this, I'm just giving my perspective on why some type-A women get frustrated. You seem to have a good thing going.)

[Schildt2009]

I thought about the original question for this thread last night. At first I thought, dude, why is it your business? What do you care if some guy wants to bang a young hotty and a young hotty needs to bang her dad? I initially had a 'live and let live' stance. From my own experience that I'm going through now I really wish I was dating someone that's more at my level of 'maturity'.

 

My gf and I have been together for 2 years now and our relationship is hanging by a thread as far as I'm concerned and it's been like that for a year but I've given her many 2nd, 3rd, nth chances, etc. She's only 8 years younger than me but believe me it's enough of a divide to be relevent to this topic. She was 23 and I was 31 when we started dating. At first her youthfulness and naivity were endearing but that got in the way when it came to moving the relationship forward. There were too many instances when I felt like I was acting as her father and not her boyfriend. F that.

 

I would rationalize it and think she would mature with time but I realize it won't happen under my watch so I guess it's partially my fault for supporting her in certain ways (financially). It's still like that and I gave her a lecture last night about our relationship again and I'm thinking about ending it when she comes to visit this weekend. We've been LD since November.

 

Oh and the guy she dated before was closer to 40! That grossed me out too. I don't want to be her dad, I never wanted that. I gotta get out. I gave her a chance and that's it.

[Woggle]

A woman can be strong, independent, and successful without being masculine. Unfortunately, a lot of American women think that in order to succeed, they need act like penisless men in a relationship as well as in business. It's a huge turnoff (for me, anyway), just as I'm sure a feminized man is for a lot of women out there.

 

There is nothing threatening about a successful woman. A lot of bitter, angry women use their success as an excuse for their lack of appeal.

 

(Cat-power, I don't think you are like this, I'm just giving my perspective on why some type-A women get frustrated. You seem to have a good thing going.)

 

This is very true and it works the other way around as well. Women who claim they can't get a date becuase they are strong women are just like men who complain about being nice guys. Women generally don't want a spineless man and men generally don't like ballbusters without an ounce of tenderness in them. There are many intelligent, successful and strong women who know how to still have that tender side just like there are many good and faithful man who are still strong.

[OpenBook]

Woggle I don't get you! On the one hand you say this --

 

This is very true and it works the other way around as well. Women who claim they can't get a date becuase they are strong women are just like men who complain about being nice guys. Women generally don't want a spineless man and men generally don't like ballbusters without an ounce of tenderness in them. There are many intelligent, successful and strong women who know how to still have that tender side just like there are many good and faithful man who are still strong.

 

But just a few posts back, you did the exact thing that you abhor --

 

Until recently I was very very disappointed in women because too often when we give them what they claim to want they screw us over. I never could be one of those men that uses or abuses women but to be honest it is an easier life for a man and the women swoon when you do. If this current marriage fails I probably will cross that line and become a player and a user. I know that is not a healthy attitude to have but at this point I just don't see what a man gets for being one of the good ones.

 

So - which is it???

[Sibyl Vane]

Here's my philosophy

 

I wasted my best years on self indulgence and lechery and now that I feel myself deteriorating I'm afraid of the big long lonliness and I want a hot, young wifey to hold me

 

 

I'm young at least.

[samspade]

I would rationalize it and think she would mature with time but I realize it won't happen under my watch so I guess it's partially my fault for supporting her in certain ways (financially). It's still like that and I gave her a lecture last night about our relationship again and I'm thinking about ending it when she comes to visit this weekend. We've been LD since November.

 

Most Western women at that age ARE immature, and as such I don't advocate LTRs with them. Of course, there are exceptions. And there are immature older women, too. The way I see it, you have plenty of time to mold someone's behavior when you have kids of your own. I personally don't mind dating younger women, but only in the short term.

[Jersey Shortie]

Yeah keep using those women for your own gratification! They aren't people with feelings and needs of their own..How dare they be immature even though they are younger then you...Take what you can from them then toss them in the street!

 

 

Unfortunately, a lot of American women think that in order to succeed, they need act like penisless men in a relationship as well as in business.

 

Well, alot of men today don't act like men. So someone has to. Alot of men whine and complain and are complacent of themselves

[Woggle]

Woggle I don't get you! On the one hand you say this --

 

 

 

But just a few posts back, you did the exact thing that you abhor --

 

 

 

So - which is it???

 

It seems like I contradicted myself but there really are many nice guys that are just wimps. They are boring, annoying and will stab you in the back but don't have the guts to stab you in the front.

 

At the same time there really are many women who would not know a good man if he fell out of the sky and on to their porch.

[DMoon]

The link didn't work, DMoon...but I think I can imagine some of what was entailed.

 

 

 

or....

 

http://www.filmdope.com/Gallery/ActorsL/10388-24033.gif

 

Whatever desperate hell lies beneath the surface is irrelevant. No wonder Eli Lilly make a killing off Prozac.

 

Yup that picture pretty much sums it up: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/09/love-in-the-time-of-prostate-cancer/

 

From the article

 

but they can’t compete with the earthy love of Deb helping me change and drain my catheter pouches each day when I first came home from the hospital.

Yes, in the details. She measured my urine, peered into places I couldn’t (literally and figuratively), and strategically and liberally applied baby powder, ice and Aquaphor to my raw and aching body. She battled our intractable insurer, networked, tracked down the right doctors — and took thorough notes all the while.

 

Women will do this more so than if the shoe was on the other foot. If getting fat is such a turn off imagine what the guy would do if she got a debilitating disease or was unimaginably scarred. Your whole take on Empathy pretty much sums it up.

[samspade]

Yeah keep using those women for your own gratification! They aren't people with feelings and needs of their own..How dare they be immature even though they are younger then you...Take what you can from them then toss them in the street!

 

A mutual, short-term relationship is not using anybody as long as both are on the same page. BOTH people get gratification out of it. If you think men are the only ones who date in the short term, or casually, you are truly ignorant. And I accept that they are less mature, BECAUSE they are younger. It's just something to take into consideration. I don't blame a 22-year-old for acting her age any more than I'd blame a baby for acting its age.

 

This kind of one-sided shaming is not only anti-male, but anti-female. Maybe you don't realize this, but women can think for themselves and aren't always the helpless, mindless victims you make them out to be. I've had many great flings with different women, and despite what you would prefer to believe, remain on friendly terms with them. I don't "take what I can from them and toss them into the street," as you allege. I have more respect for the females I associate with than that, which is apparently a LOT more respect for them than you have, with your condescension and moral superiority. This is the 21st century, get out of the dark ages, and quit insulting me and the women I date.

 

Well, alot of men today don't act like men. So someone has to. Alot of men whine and complain and are complacent of themselves

 

I agree with you there. But I think men should be the ones acting like men, not women. I don't think women need to fill that vacuum.

[loser101]

It seems like I contradicted myself but there really are many nice guys that are just wimps. They are bo ring, annoying and will stab you in the back but don't have the guts to stab you in the front.

 

I couldnt agree with you more - for once. An ex of mine I used to view as a really nice, albeit maybe a little weak, man until I realised he was just passive-agressive, no backbone. Lack of assertiveness and 'nice' are not the same thing.

[cat-power]

A woman can be strong, independent, and successful without being masculine. Unfortunately, a lot of American women think that in order to succeed, they need act like penisless men in a relationship as well as in business. It's a huge turnoff (for me, anyway), just as I'm sure a feminized man is for a lot of women out there.

 

There is nothing threatening about a successful woman. A lot of bitter, angry women use their success as an excuse for their lack of appeal.

 

(Cat-power, I don't think you are like this, I'm just giving my perspective on why some type-A women get frustrated. You seem to have a good thing going.)

 

Thanks Sam ! no...i'm not the masculine type, tall, slim and blonde and don't need to use a zebra crossing to make cars stop if I wanna cross a street , but I have to be a "bitch" sometimes...being in the oil-industry, I suppose if I was a man they would call it "fair and tough"

 

I'll admit I don't really know why i'm still single at 37, you would think that independance would be in favour of meeting someone equal, or someone who doesn't bail after 3 months, guess it's not. This new guy I was talking about, who is so much older, doesn't seem to be intimidated by the things i've achieved.

 

It's often puzzling, I work in an all-male technical environment and I can talk to men about technical stuff (ofcourse, at first they're not so sure:D) but after proving myself, i know they value my opinion, like me....

You would think that working with so many men every day, there would be SOMEONE willing to take the chance to date me. Instead they seem to think i'm just one of the guys.

 

Now i'm not necessarily looking for someone to date at work, but giving the odds (3000 men....and only about 5 girls doing what I do.....) it seems that i'm doing something really wrong !!!

[samspade]

You would think that working with so many men every day, there would be SOMEONE willing to take the chance to date me. Instead they seem to think i'm just one of the guys.

 

Now i'm not necessarily looking for someone to date at work, but giving the odds (3000 men....and only about 5 girls doing what I do.....) it seems that i'm doing something really wrong !!!

 

Well, men on the job are a little gun shy about asking out women. Actually, a lot of men in general are gun shy, which is too bad for them. But still, 3000 men, hmm. Perhaps you are behaving professionally and not giving off the slightly-flirtatious vibe that would open the door for that kind of thing.

 

At least the guy you're seeing now sounds cool.

[Sam Spade]

Yeah keep using those women for your own gratification! They aren't people with feelings and needs of their own..How dare they be immature even though they are younger then you...Take what you can from them then toss them in the street!

 

Wow, you've got a lot of issues . I would be irritated by this type of shaming posts if they weren't actually cries for help.

[voldigicam]

"

"Campsite rule"

 

With regard to readers who are in relationships with a large age disparity, Savage promotes his "campsite rule": at the end of the relationship, the elder partner should leave the younger in "better shape than they found them". This includes no diseases, no fertilized eggs, no undue emotional trauma, and whatever sexual education can be provided.[6]

Shortly after a 2009 scandal in Portland, Oregon involving openly gay mayor Sam Adams and Beau Breedlove, who had allegedly turned 18 almost immediately before the two began a sexual relationship, Savage created a companion rule to the "campsite rule", now known as the Tea and Sympathy rule. The rule is a reference to a line in the play of the same name, in which a much older woman states to a high-school-age boy, right before having sex with him: "When you speak of this in future years... and you will... be kind." Savage claimed in an article in The Portland Mercury that, while Adams followed the "campsite rule" – Breedlove did not claim that Adams had given him any diseases or caused him emotional trauma, and in fact still refers to Adams as a friend – Breedlove violated the Tea and Sympathy rule by making public statements that he knew could ruin Adams' career.[7]"

 

 

 

 

Worth keeping in mind.

 

 

We could have a complentary thread on "Why do those young girls keep poaching the older guys out from under us experienced women."

[OpenBook]

We could have a complentary thread on "Why do those young girls keep poaching the older guys out from under us experienced women."

 

Honey, they can have them.

[Cherished]

People just need to accept that everyone may or may not have, a set of preferences that differ from theirs, and learn to stop being such dicks about it.

 

 

Yes, exactly. I don't know why it is so hard to understand that many men enjoy and date and have relationships with women their own age. Happens more often than not.

No one's pushing any reality of women dating significantly younger men, but it does happen, just like older men dating significantly younger women. Big deal No one's saying there's anything wrong with dating someone younger or older. It's when men are telling us that's how it is, then that's what the problem is. When men are on here saying "men prefer younger women and want them, if he's with you, and you're over 35, he really wants a younger woman. if he's with you, you're the old comfy 69 Buick but he really wants the shiny brand new Corvette" that is completely wrong and that's what the fault is of many male posters is on this thread, not all. CLV is free to date and feel that way, but the reality is that many, many, many men do not feel that way.

[Sam Spade]

The key reason age is a problem (no matter if you're a man or a woman), is simply the baggage that gets accumulated over the years and then transported with us. So, it gets harder and harder to bring someone into our life, simply because we've accumulated more and more 'criteria'. Getting hitched young has its own problems, but at least you grow and mature WITH somebody, i.e. you literally build yourself and life together.

 

The whole argument that we need to 'experience life' a lot before settling down is flawed. Living single over the course of a decade or more (presumably punctuated by 'fun' relationships) does nothing for you to mature as a human being, if you have the basest ability of self-refleciton and introspection. If you do have it - you don't have much external stimulation to utilize it, and if you don't - all the 'experiences' in the world won't make you into a more mature person. While experience is clearly benefitial for most, the boundary with pointless self-indulgence is very thin. Which then translates into having trouble finding suitable mate, simply because it is so hard to find an optimal 'solution'/match to all the idyosnicrasies accumulated over the years.

[parky1969]

It's interesting reading these posts. I'm just 40, an attractive, female, fit and happy. I can honestly say I get hit on by guys far more now than ever before! Even guys in their early 20's ewww my cut off is a very mature 29.

Anyone young enough to be my child is just creepy.

 

So my experience from a 40 female point of view is very positive...I try to be gracious, smile and say thanks for the compliments. We (women) never tire of genuine interest, it's good for the soul and I have had some great adventures the last 10 years of being single.

 

As for the old men trying it on with girls in their 20's..it's creepy and unnecessary and shows lack of confidence in finding women within 10-15 years of their own age.

 

http://player.video.news.com.au/news/#_aQQL6CacvmRYkXr3mNWtSpLMB_fgpz8

[GoodOnPaper]

The whole argument that we need to 'experience life' a lot before settling down is flawed. Living single over the course of a decade or more (presumably punctuated by 'fun' relationships) does nothing for you to mature as a human being, if you have the basest ability of self-refleciton and introspection. If you do have it - you don't have much external stimulation to utilize it, and if you don't - all the 'experiences' in the world won't make you into a more mature person. While experience is clearly benefitial for most, the boundary with pointless self-indulgence is very thin. Which then translates into having trouble finding suitable mate, simply because it is so hard to find an optimal 'solution'/match to all the idyosnicrasies accumulated over the years.

 

A great point that I have never seen anyone bring up. Every day, I wish I hadn't gotten married and had kids -- instead of doing it out of love, I did it to try and escape how miserable I was at being single and attracting women. Now, over 15 years later, I'm better looking, professionally accomplished, and confident that I would do at least a few things "right" at being single. However, could I have reached this mindset without some maturing having occurred (as unintentional as it may be) through the experiences of getting married, helping run a household, and raising kids?? That's the rub.

[Jersey Shortie]

A mutual, short-term relationship is not using anybody as long as both are on the same page.

 

From my understanding he has been dating these women all close to a year.

 

BOTH people get gratification out of it. If you think men are the only ones who date in the short term, or casually, you are truly ignorant.

 

You are truly ignorant to assume that is what I think.

 

This kind of one-sided shaming is not only anti-male, but anti-female.

 

You mean, such as the shaming you are attempting to pull right now?

 

 

 

Yes, exactly. I don't know why it is so hard to understand that many men enjoy and date and have relationships with women their own age. Happens more often than not.

No one's pushing any reality of women dating significantly younger men, but it does happen, just like older men dating significantly younger women. Big deal No one's saying there's anything wrong with dating someone younger or older. It's when men are telling us that's how it is, then that's what the problem is. When men are on here saying "men prefer younger women and want them, if he's with you, and you're over 35, he really wants a younger woman. if he's with you, you're the old comfy 69 Buick but he really wants the shiny brand new Corvette" that is completely wrong and that's what the fault is of many male posters is on this thread, not all. CLV is free to date and feel that way, but the reality is that many, many, many men do not feel that way.

 

Exactly!

[clv0116]

When men are on here saying "men prefer younger women and want them, if he's with you, and you're over 35, he really wants a younger woman. if he's with you, you're the old comfy 69 Buick but he really wants the shiny brand new Corvette".

 

No, you have it wrong. Plenty of people will stay with someone they love, the history and shared life experience trump youth and beauty. But to BEGIN a new relationship is a whole different thing. Why do you refuse to hear when I repeatedly make that distinction?

[Jersey Shortie]

Who wants to spend the time sharing life experiences with a man that thinks he is better then women his own age?

 

You, at your age, think that you are deserving of things you don't think women your age are deserving of. You've said as much previously and have even gone as atrociously far as to say things like "oh those poor poor older women, I feel so bad for them. Truly life sucks for them. But oh well, I get mine." Pretty much that's what you say. You feel "pity" for older women and yet think that you, in the same age group, are more deserving of respect, love and a family. I have even heard you give the atrocious advice to women over 40 that they should take up other activities instead of finding love. How would you feel if women were telling you to give up on something like love and family in favor of golf and lawncare?

 

I hate to tell you but not one person in the world wants to be with a man that thinks the way you do about women. Not one. You want to say how great you are, your denial to see your own age and have the nerve to hold it against women in the same age group as you. Ridiculous. Always stay away from a man that has that view point of women in his own age group. Always.

[clv0116]

You, at your age, think that you are deserving of things ....

 

Again, I repeat that I don't believe in 'deserve', I believe in getting the best one can. I love that your post clearly implies that younger is better though, nice double standard. Thankfully I think it's safe to say the vast majority of women I date feel completely different about men than you do.

[Jersey Shortie]

Are you honestly lecturing me about double standards? Funny how up in arms you get when the "younger is better" statement you preceive I am making is about men being younger better. Yet when you say younger women are better, that's okay. Talk about double standards.