Why do many men kid themselves with the whole younger woman thing?

[sumdude]

At 40 or 45 it's not desirable for a man to start having children even if he does produce healthy offspring because by the age of 60 more than likely he will kick the bucket leaving behind children of 15 and 20 yrs of age. Why do that to children? why deprive them of a normal lifespan of having a dad?

 

Hmmm.. then by the same logic men or women in the armed forces, police force, firefighters or other dangerous occupations shouldn't have kids either because the likelihood of them kicking the bucket is much higher as well. Might as well include anyone with diabetes, family history of cancer and other medical conditions.

[Jaytb]

No that would be right if you were talking about women in their late 30's wanting a young buck to start a family because they missed the boat getting a 20 something guy when they were that age. Again, read the topic of this thread and let's keep it wihthin that guideline. Cool?

 

You were talking about older men in a derogatory fashion. I merely switched the genders to show you how you sounded, or rather that you sounded just like the opposition.

[soserious1]

I had my children several years apart quite frankly because I rather dislike the toddler years. I enjoy young people most as teenagers. I cannot fathom being in my 40's and dealing with a 2-3 yr old, lol.

[pollywag]

You were talking about older men in a derogatory fashion...

 

 

..older men with a sense of entitlemen who ALSO deem women in their 30's as useless, ie not ALL older men just those who fit the profile. Again, on topic with the thread theme.

 

Sorry you feel it's wrong of me to point out the irony here, in as harsh as my tone gets when doing so, I don't feel it is in the same vein by any stretch. But you seem to think so, so be it!

 

It's like finding me at fault because I share disgust or anger at people who steal and maninpulate others. Sure we are both mainfesting signs of indignation but the situations are incomparable.

[pollywag]

Hmmm.. then by the same logic men or women in the armed forces, police force, firefighters or other dangerous occupations shouldn't have kids either because the likelihood of them kicking the bucket is much higher as well. Might as well include anyone with diabetes, family history of cancer and other medical conditions.

 

 

I've addressed this already, so please read my posts after that one.

 

 

Some of you men are taking this really personally and you seem to forget that the topic of discussion pertains to "why men kid themselves into the whole younger woman thing" The OP states:

 

If you are in your 40's and are positioning yourself to do what you didn't do in your 20's forget it

 

 

Are you kidding yourself into the whole younger woman thing Somedude? Do you fit the bill of what is described in the OP? Is that why you are taking my comments so to heart? Because in reading your posts I don't get that sense, I could be wrong....

[sumdude]

Are you kidding yourself into the whole younger woman thing Somedude? Do you fit the bill of what is described in the OP? Is that why you are taking my comments so to heart? Because in reading your posts I don't get that sense, I could be wrong....

 

Just enjoying some debate here and trying to give my perspective. If I could go give my 20 something self a good talking to about life I would (not that I would have listened, I knew everything back then). So I try to explain how it may be in a younger person's future. Life happens fast, one minute you think you have all the time in the world.

 

God.. I sould like a geezer LOL... truth is most women my age can't keep up with me but I'm not typical I think.

 

I drive past a university campus in the city on the way home from work every day. I sure love the eye candy but the chances of me really relating and vice versa are slim.. but not entirely impossible. I may or may not ever have children so mostly it's just a preference. I'm not going after the women in their 20's, 30's are just fine with me.

 

Seems that isn't considered appropriate for some or the folks on this thread.

[pollywag]

Fair enough Sumdude, if it's for argument's sake then let's argue RWAAAR!!!!! (flips over table and starts waving paw-fist angrily)

 

 

 

Seems that isn't considered appropriate for some or the folks on this thread.

 

 

What is not considered apropriate, or better yet what is considered grating, is the comments made day in day out coming from the same handful of guys who hate women.

[Jaytb]

Sorry you feel it's wrong of me to point out the irony here, in as harsh as my tone gets when doing so, I don't feel it is in the same vein by any stretch. But you seem to think so, so be it!

Don't be sorry! I am not offended, I just wanted to point out what you're sounding like to the other side. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty much on your side, but I don't like how people on both sides are acting like children. "You took my cookie!!" "You're a poopy head". lol, that's what it sounds like to me.

 

 

It's like finding me at fault because I share disgust or anger at people who steal and maninpulate others. Sure we are both mainfesting signs of indignation but the situations are incomparable.

Well let's be fair here. No one (hopefully) is breaking the law, no one is putting a gun to a 20 something's head and saying you have to marry this old fart. Lol. I don't have a problem with you having your own opinion, hell I even think your opinion is the correct one, haha, but I'm just hoping you see the parallels between these two sides "tactics".

[clv0116]

I know several men in their late 30s and 40s who have told me that the 20 something women simply didn't appeal to them.

 

Ya, I know people who say various expensive cars don't appeal to them too. They just love that old Buick .... but not many lottery winners drive old Buicks. You learn to like what you can get if you can't get the best.

 

Again, show me the Oil of Olay creme marketed to make a woman look 15 years older, please. Nothing? Shocking!

 

Still laughing here sweet pea.

[pollywag]

Don't be sorry! I am not offended, I just wanted to point out what you're sounding like to the other side. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty much on your side, but I don't like how people on both sides are acting like children. "You took my cookie!!" "You're a poopy head". lol, that's what it sounds like to me.

 

I understand what you are trying to demonstrate and point taken.

 

I believe in stooping, sometimes you have to dumb down your language in order for others to understand what you are trying to communicate. If I were talking to a child I would choose my words in such a way that it makes sense to a child but all in all I am quite articulate and tend to speak like an adult.

I apologize to all the guys who jumped in feeling attacked who also happen to be reasonable and are not on here 24/7 spewing nonsense.

I will gladly debate with you in an adult manner the pros and cons of the topic.

But let's not get too caught up in niceties because we are after all here to fight!

 

 

Well let's be fair here. No one (hopefully) is breaking the law, no one is putting a gun to a 20 something's head and saying you have to marry this old fart. Lol. I don't have a problem with you having your own opinion, hell I even think your opinion is the correct one, haha, but I'm just hoping you see the parallels between these two sides "tactics".

 

Let me ask you something, were you ever 20 yrs old? Do you remember the choices you made when you were 20? While no one held a gun to your head for the choices you made, having the influence of your peers at times was just enough of a needed "push" to say "to hell with it" and go for or do things that were probably not the best for you in the long run.

Now picture the "peers" being someone twice your age. Sure no one held a gun to your head but you are far more easily influenced when you are that young than when you are older, like say 40.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am all for experimenting and collectively conspiring with your peers to test and try things for the sake of life's experiences and maturing when you are young, but a man who has already lived well over two decades has the moral obligation to at least recognize that just because a woman looks mature and acts mature she is still in fact just stepping into adulthood. The choices she will make are based on very limited life experience and knowledge. But when you are thinking with your penis it is hard to see this, I mean "you" as in the general you no one guy in particular.

 

So yes you are correct no one is holding a gun to anyone's head, but you definitely have the advantage in that situation and you are dealing with a more fragile inexperienced version yourself, in particular someone 20 yrs more fragile than you.

 

Think daughter, what would you tell a 20 yr old daughter that showed up at your home and told you she wanted to get hitched up with a man your age or older? And I know that you might say "well I don't have a daughter so I don't have to think in those terms", neither do I. In order to really understand a situation it takes stepping into the different shoes at times, to see it clearer. And I am not saying two people cannot fall in love, they can and age really does not matter. But if you knew that your daughter was the "victim" of some older predator type with sense of entitlement, I think that would change your views drastically. "I think" being the operative words.

 

Bottom line, it's the "premeditated" part that seems to rub me the wrong way and it makes it really creepy to digest.

[Cherished]

Ya, I know people who say various expensive cars don't appeal to them too. They just love that old Buick .... but not many lottery winners drive old Buicks. You learn to like what you can get if you can't get the best.

 

Again, show me the Oil of Olay creme marketed to make a woman look 15 years older, please. Nothing? Shocking!

 

Still laughing here sweet pea.

 

Surprisingly, you're not every guy. I know I'm beautiful and appealing at age 37 and so do men. Oil of Olay has nothing to do with it. I have used sunblock everyday since a teenager and look awesome and there are men who do want more than what you want. You just don't get it, clv. Just because you say that women in their 20s are the best, doesn't mean all men do and they don't. And it's not because they can't date 20 somethings if they want to.

Here you are on the internet...again...three days in a row now, pushing your agenda...for what reason...men who are secure with who they are don't post stuff like you do all the time and have a specific agenda to degrade women.

[voldigicam]

Don't get me wrong, I am all for experimenting and collectively conspiring with your peers to test and try things for the sake of life's experiences and maturing when you are young, but a man who has already lived well over two decades has the moral obligation to at least recognize that just because a woman looks mature and acts mature she is still in fact just stepping into adulthood. The choices she will make are based on very limited life experience and knowledge. But when you are thinking with your penis it is hard to see this, I mean "you" as in the general you no one guy in particular.

 

So yes you are correct no one is holding a gun to anyone's head, but you definitely have the advantage in that situation and you are dealing with a more fragile inexperienced version yourself, in particular someone 20 yrs more fragile than you.

 

Think daughter, what would you tell a 20 yr old daughter that showed up at your home and told you she wanted to get hitched up with a man your age or older? And I know that you might say "well I don't have a daughter so I don't have to think in those terms", neither do I. In order to really understand a situation it takes stepping into the different shoes at times, to see it clearer. And I am not saying two people cannot fall in love, they can and age really does not matter. But if you knew that your daughter was the "victim" of some older predator type with sense of entitlement, I think that would change your views drastically. "I think" being the operative words.

 

Bottom line, it's the "premeditated" part that seems to rub me the wrong way and it makes it really creepy to digest.

 

I really have pondered this. I haven't gone out of my way to find "younger" women, but have had them show up repeatedly as the seekers. The premeditation part does seem to make it creepy. And if an exclusive relationship is the goal of one or another, well. That's a bit different than I think. The premeditation plus experience and lust does seem to make for a predator mindset.

 

Daughters. I have one. I could look at her boyfriend as a predator for a few seconds before laughing! But yes, someone 2x her age comes along, I'll go berserk protective.

 

So how about the choice of someone 20 or 25 in taking a lover who is 25 or 30 or 35 years older, one of a pallet of lovers she dances among? I have seen this too much to think it's unusual. Having kissed a few different girls from my age to MUCH closer to my daughter's age than is proper, both above and below the waist, the practical physical differences are less than one might think.

 

What hasn't come up in the discussion is how much more fun sharp, engaged, and relatively well read 20 somethings are. And how dull old ladies have let themselves become. Well, most old guys, too. In developing friendships with younger people I've learned so much about:

 

BDSM

Graphic Novel writing

Piercings

Modern music

Bicycles

Cool food

Events

Sex tips (this goes both ways - always fun to swap tips)

and so on

 

And they READ. Rather than watch the boob toob. [if you want a 20 something, guys, hang out at the library and chat up the slightly heavier shy ones . . . .]

 

So it isn't just physical, and the physical only goes so far. And many 40 somethings are still 8.5 when many 20 somethings are solid 5s.

 

Fairness. That's another thing. Is it fair to get an LTR going for your last 20 years when they have probably 50 more years? Hmm. Isn't that their decision? Well, they're so young and can't see the big picture. Maybe. I don't have an answer.

 

If I lost my SO, I have to admit that I'd be testing from 20 something to 50s. And wouldn't be surprised to find a 20 something cubby reader with quiet manners and beautiful eyes hanging around for a few years. Beating out the well-off 40 somethings with careers.

 

Just another stirring of the pot.

[MN randomguy]

There are a lot of views that no one is going to change here. I wanted to post a reply to the OP of the 20 y/o now 30 thread.

 

You say:

 

the men here are confusing me. You are encouraging the young women to marry off and pop out babies as early as 20-25...so if every young woman listens to this then there will be no young hotties for you all to lust after and play around with. They'll all be at home with a couple of babies raising kids like most older women. Will you start to date even younger like 16-19 yrs of age since they will be single and childless??

 

First of all, start looking for Mr. father of your children at age 20. You may not find him until you're 25 or 30. But, it will be more fertile (pun intended:D) hunting grounds. If you find him when you're 20, you can date for a few years, get married young, and you've got one locked in. You can still have lots of fun, crazy sex with said man and maybe wait until you're 30 to get preggers. Many women find lots of Mr. tonights and assume that when they decide that they've had enough fun and they're in their 30s that it will take no work to get Mr. Right.

 

The answers and ages of guys responding varies. I don't think anyone is saying that 40 men and 20 women should be the norm. To answer your question about what the guys will be chasing if the young women pick a life-long mate in my utopia, remember that I'm 29. I would like a committed relationship with a 24 y/o. I would not be needing to chase a "hot piece of ass" I'd have one warming up the sheets for me right now.

 

I don't believe in hook-up culture. Many women are taught that you have to kiss a lot of frogs and then you'll find your prince. I say kissing a lot of frogs will give you warts and that Prince is an effeminate guy from MN who is a terrible musician.

 

 

 

I don't know about anyone else but I sure wasn't advocating anything of the sort. However I was pointing out that after 35 things really start to change. So if a goal in a woman's life is to bear children that should be kept in mind.

 

As for me, I'm 41 and don't have many more years before I may be too old to bring up kids the way I'd like to.

 

Againanothe of the guys that would be settled down with a "younger woman" which to him being 12 years older than me may mean 30ish. But, under 35.

 

At 40 or 45 it's not desirable for a man to start having children even if he does produce healthy offspring because by the age of 60 more than likely he will kick the bucket leaving behind children of 15 and 20 yrs of age. Why do that to children? why deprive them of a normal lifespan of having a dad?

 

Essentially older men don't give a damn about their kids or their futures of becoming a product of single mom parenting, they just care about themselves and what they want at middle age.

 

A. Most men live long past 60

 

B. It sounds like sumdude does care about thee kids and that is why he's anxious to settle down. You're right though pollywog, 40s is older than ideal.

 

C.

I just don't see how this can be desirable to any women in her 20's seriously thinking of starting a family, even if the guy is really good looking and a great personality.

really!?!

 

is that all its about? Are you still looking to be impressed by a cassanova?

 

T

If a man tells a woman her loves her and wants to be her husband, what does it say if this would all change should she turn out infertile (at any age)?

It says SHE was never what he loved to begin with. He just loved the idea of having his own uterus.

That is what is going on with the men on here who, at their own ripe age, purposefully seek much younger women to marry. It has nothing to do with any personal quality these girls might have. It only marginally has anything to do with their appearance because that is fleeting. It is all about their uterus and their ease of control.

Their pre-nupt probably includes a trip to the gyno office for a fertility check.

 

Do you understand probability? Most of the things you do to make your life better do not guarantee you that things will turn out the way you want, but only increase the probability of a desirable outcome. Yes, I could fall in love with a woman, marry her and find-out that she's infertile. I would stay with her. But, being that I am not currently committed to anyone I will try for a little younger.

[Jaytb]

I understand what you are trying to demonstrate and point taken.

 

I believe in stooping, sometimes you have to dumb down your language in order for others to understand what you are trying to communicate. If I were talking to a child I would choose my words in such a way that it makes sense to a child but all in all I am quite articulate and tend to speak like an adult.

I apologize to all the guys who jumped in feeling attacked who also happen to be reasonable and are not on here 24/7 spewing nonsense.

I will gladly debate with you in an adult manner the pros and cons of the topic.

But let's not get too caught up in niceties because we are after all here to fight!

 

Haha. Good points there.

 

 

Let me ask you something, were you ever 20 yrs old?

Believe it or not, I'm not even 20 yet .

 

Do you remember the choices you made when you were 20? While no one held a gun to your head for the choices you made, having the influence of your peers at times was just enough of a needed "push" to say "to hell with it" and go for or do things that were probably not the best for you in the long run.

Now picture the "peers" being someone twice your age. Sure no one held a gun to your head but you are far more easily influenced when you are that young than when you are older, like say 40.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am all for experimenting and collectively conspiring with your peers to test and try things for the sake of life's experiences and maturing when you are young, but a man who has already lived well over two decades has the moral obligation to at least recognize that just because a woman looks mature and acts mature she is still in fact just stepping into adulthood. The choices she will make are based on very limited life experience and knowledge. But when you are thinking with your penis it is hard to see this, I mean "you" as in the general you no one guy in particular.

 

So yes you are correct no one is holding a gun to anyone's head, but you definitely have the advantage in that situation and you are dealing with a more fragile inexperienced version yourself, in particular someone 20 yrs more fragile than you.

 

Think daughter, what would you tell a 20 yr old daughter that showed up at your home and told you she wanted to get hitched up with a man your age or older? And I know that you might say "well I don't have a daughter so I don't have to think in those terms", neither do I. In order to really understand a situation it takes stepping into the different shoes at times, to see it clearer. And I am not saying two people cannot fall in love, they can and age really does not matter. But if you knew that your daughter was the "victim" of some older predator type with sense of entitlement, I think that would change your views drastically. "I think" being the operative words.

 

Bottom line, it's the "premeditated" part that seems to rub me the wrong way and it makes it really creepy to digest.

Fair points in there. And when you have a daughter, anyone dating her is unacceptable . It's natural that you would question someones motives in that situation. But once she's in her late 20's, you're not in control anymore. She's the one in control. You could advise her as to what you think is his motives.

 

All I'm saying is don't be presumptuous. If you think some guy is a creep, then you can probably tell through other means than just age. If you assumed that every 40 something whose in a relationship with a 20 something has some an agenda, I would say would you make similar presumptions with an interracial couple? A fat guy with a thin girl (or vice versa)? The presumption of the former being the man has yellow fever or jungle fever or something like that in the former, and the presumption being that the man is shallow or a chubby chaser in the latter.

 

I mean I do agree that there are plenty of 40 something creeps out there. Or delusional guys thinking they can get the hottest youngest girl there is. But there is definitely a lot of different things going on out there. I would just stay away from presumptions and prejudices. Now off to bed for me.

[pollywag]

Not the same by a landslide. So imagine your daughter coming on to men like you and of your age, would you be ok with it then?

 

So how about the choice of someone 20 or 25 in taking a lover who is 25 or 30 or 35 years older, one of a pallet of lovers she dances among? I have seen this too much to think it's unusual. Having kissed a few different girls from my age to MUCH closer to my daughter's age than is proper, both above and below the waist, the practical physical differences are less than one might think.

 

On the one hand you say that if you lost your SO you would go for 20 somethings and then you talk about all this experience with 20 somethings.... hmmmm......not even going to ask....!

 

What hasn't come up in the discussion is how much more fun sharp, engaged, and relatively well read 20 somethings are. And how dull old ladies have let themselves become. Well, most old guys, too. In developing friendships with younger people I've learned so much about:

 

Define "old lady" because last I checked, fun can be had at any age with anyone of any age depending on what your idea of fun is. I take it you are in your 50's and to compare a 20 yr old to 50 yr old women and to expect them to be up on the latest "music, cool food, and beatnik or pop literature" is a bit much to ask of a woman who has typically just spent the last 30 yrs of her life caring after children a house, career, husband and family and now possibly grandkids. Where were you in the last 50 years and why are you not up with all the "in" things huh?

 

My point being, again you think it's "fun" to relate to the tastes and interests of someone of your daughter's age but it seems a lot deeper than that. At 50 you should be able to find your own version of cool food, literature and music and not rely on the tastes of people just discovering the world to enlighten you and offer you "fun".

There is nothing more ridiculous than seeing a 50 something yr old person trying to fit in at at a Kaiser Chiefs show...(insert bad of choice) sorry but it has to be said.

 

 

 

 

BDSM

Graphic Novel writing

Piercings

Modern music

Bicycles

Cool food

Events

Sex tips (this goes both ways - always fun to swap tips)

and so on

 

 

So it isn't just physical, and the physical only goes so far.

 

sorry but "bicycles"?!?!? That one made me laugh what do 20 yr olds and bicycles have in common, other than you can ride them until the rubber is gone?

 

And yeah I am sure just you sit down to "swap" sex tips with 20 yr olds. Ever heard of the internet? You'll find all the tips you need on sex there.

:laugh: It's not about the physical but half of your choices are about sex the other half are about reliving your youth.

 

You want to relive your 20's FINE no problem, but let's be honest about it at least. All in all the comments always seem to point in that direction.

[Jersey Shortie]

There threads get depressing..all the men telling women how worthless they are and how wonderful they are as men and how they want women to think they are wonderful but tellign women all the ways they are wrong and useless and what they should or shouldn't be doing. Thanks alot guys..your opinion of women is golden and makes me see how men really feel about women. Thanks for not giving us ladies a chance in life and just shooting us down for the fact that we are women. Some of you claim you love women. What a huge lie. Because I can't see anyone that really loves women or loves women who loves being a woman, picking on women like the men here are. Thank you for telling us the only time we deserve to be loved and enjoy a relationsihp with a man is within a very narrowly defined window while you as a man can go on for years and years self fulling yourself with younger and younger women. I guess we mean absolutly nothing to you. Thanks for letting me see the reality of how men are thinking about women. We women just lose from day one don't we. But it seems that there are alot of men that find happiness in that. We don't even get a chance.

 

 

Just to responde to some points:

 

Go for it. I'm getting what I want so pardon me if I'm not highly motivated

.

 

 

Cop out. No Clv, you go for it. You are the one trying to pass it off as fact. But your sentence proves that you have nothing to back up your claims and you’re refusal to follow through shows you have nothing to stand on.

 

Just remember there's also that energy and drive for a young man to 'sow his oats' and not get to committed to anyone for long. Forewarned is forearmed. 

 

Funny how you warn me about the dangers of dating someone younger and the need to sow his oats yet you don't give women the same privilage..with women, it's all about settling down sooner then later. Forget that women want to sow their oats too and don't want you to be their moon and sun? Maybe that's part of the issue with the men here...they don't like the fact that women want some fun and that he won't be the only man she ever was with or maybe even the best men she was ever with.

 

I don't need your warning. I don't date immature 20 somethings. If I go out with someone younger then me, it's because they show a level of maturity that even some of the older men on this thread can't see to show.

 

 

 

Thanks C-riouz for your previous comments. Haha, he actually seems more mature them men anyway.

 

 

Essentially older men don't give a damn about their kids or their futures of becoming a product of single mom parenting, they just care about themselves and what they want at middle age.

 

I wouldn't say they don't care but I would bet the woman ends up doing all the heavy work and raising. I have seen it alot of times with families of older fathers.

 

 

Jaytb

So JS, a man can be mature for his age but a woman can't?

 

What? I NEVER said that.

 

 

I love being a woman feeling like one but I can tell you that alot of the men around here, despite their claims about loving women so much, sure do know how to make a woman feel shamed about being a woman and a proud worthwhile beautiful one at that as well. I feel like there is so much shame men want us to feel as women right now after all these threads basically telling women how worthless they are. Oh and the new men that step in? Did you step in when the comments where flying around about women? No. You stepped in when a few comments where thrown about men. We see what you think by that as well. That is telling inself what you deem important to stand up to and what you don't deem important to stand up to. If we don't conform while you men give yourselves free rein to do as you please. That's not loving or respecting the other gender I hate to tell you. That is control and manipulation.

 

But at least men can take away that women love them and respect them even as they age and even think the can be more wonderful. What do women get? Told how worthless we are for not being 18-25 anymore. Thanks so much for the disheartening comments. Women can't win with men can we. We lose no matter what. Why the heck are we trying? Maybe women have actually stopped trying and that's why so many men find it hard to find a good female. Maybe all the females out there have realized that they don't want to be with a partner that only sees them as a depricating assesst and they actually do get more satisfaction from life from a job, or friends and family or even having babies on their own then being tied to a partner that sees her as less of a woman for each year she ages. You guys love women? How could you possibly with the kinds of things you have been saying?

[gopher]

Yet, you and others create threads based on the premise that "some" guys personal preferances are wrong....that's just insane and what do expect guys to say with a thread title like this?

 

I haven't seen any threads that say...

 

"Why do so many women kids themselves with the whole marry a rich guy thing?"

 

I don't think most guys care that much about women's preferences in the dating department. On the other hand, some women seem to be all upset if their is a thread about guys wanting to date thinner women, or younger women. I guess we try to avoid the drama unless it's directly related to us or our own lives.

[OpenBook]

Maybe all the females out there have realized that they don't want to be with a partner that only sees them as a depricating assesst and they actually do get more satisfaction from life from a job, or friends and family or even having babies on their own then being tied to a partner that sees her as less of a woman for each year she ages. You guys love women? How could you possibly with the kinds of things you have been saying?

 

This has been true for me, except for the part about men seeing me as less of a woman as I've aged. If anything, they see me as MORE of a woman... at least, their narrow definition of one. I just don't have the time anymore to put up with their crap. Bottom line, men are like big babies, they want somebody to take care of them, and they couldn't care less what SHE wants out of life. So I've been squirming out of that role, in each opportunity to get serious with a guy. No thanks. I'll just take what I want from them, and keep on moving. They have never been able to offer me what I really want - a fulfilling, equal relationship where both parties are equally valuable, and the tie is strong and fluid enough to handle anything that comes up. I'm getting those kinds of relationships from my daughter, my mom, my cousins, my GF's, my work and my hobbies. It's enough.

[voldigicam]

I would watch broad brush generalizations. Some of us simply adore women at all ages.

 

That flowing relationship of equals is entirely possible between M & F. Just takes two grownups each honoring the other. Why that's so rare, I don't know.

 

Most M & F folks seem to not acknowledge the other as great gifts to them.

 

I get the impression many men resent "needing" women. They get one, they get possessive. And they punish the F for their need.

 

And likewise for F, who do weird stuff once they're hooked up for a while.

 

 

Possessiveness isn't becoming.

 

 

I like guys, too, but they're generally quite distant and there's some competitiveness gene in me that makes that difficult.

[Woggle]

And people accuse me of hating the opposite sex. Jersey Shortie and OpenBook have enough hate for ten of me. If any of you got what you claim to want from a man you would never appreciate it and you would do everything to try and destroy it so why should us men even bother? The irony is that the men who treat women as objects are the ones that women soon all over. If a woman can't find an equal, happy and fulfilling relationship she has nobody but herself to blame.

[Taramere]

Bottom line, men are like big babies, they want somebody to take care of them, and they couldn't care less what SHE wants out of life.

 

I think there's a great deal of truth in that. A lot of men want bright, bubbly women who will have the sensitivity to be there when needed - but the resilience to not take it personally when snubbed because they're not needed at that point. I think it's the whole "compartmentalising" thing.

 

I think your way is the best way for women (or a woman like me, at least) to have the best shot at a happy life. If we can compartmentalise more, other people's narcissism matters less. I think we have a duty first and foremost to take care of our own welfare, that of friends we have a reciprocal supportive relationship with, family members and of any children we have responsibilities towards/strong familial bonds with.

 

As playmates, when you're in the mood for them - men are great, but they're not often much use at the empathy thing. Which makes them really difficult to be around on a full time basis unless you have the Pollyanna knack of retaining a chirpy, resilient demeanour regardless of what crap's getting thrown at you. That message was driven home to me very harshly the last time I tried having a serious long term relationship. I was expected to be on an even keel constantly, and it just wasn't realistic given a spate of things that went wrong for me in a short space of time.

[lino]

Many women find lots of Mr. tonights and assume that when they decide that they've had enough fun and they're in their 30s that it will take no work to get Mr. Right.

 

Oh how true this is. I'm nearing 30 now and I see so much of it!

 

 

 

The irony is that the men who treat women as objects are the ones that women soon all over. If a woman can't find an equal, happy and fulfilling relationship she has nobody but herself to blame.

 

So sad isn't it.

[lino]

Here you are on the internet...again...three days in a row now, pushing your agenda...for what reason...men who are secure with who they are don't post stuff like you do all the time and have a specific agenda to degrade women.

 

Aren't you doing the very same thing?

[GorillaTheater]

I had my children several years apart quite frankly because I rather dislike the toddler years. I enjoy young people most as teenagers. I cannot fathom being in my 40's and dealing with a 2-3 yr old, lol.

 

I can understand that, but my experience is that I'm more patient with our toddler (she's just so darn CUTE) than I have been in the past, and having a significant amount of experience with toddlers there's pretty much nothing she can do that will take me by surprise.

[OpenBook]

And people accuse me of hating the opposite sex. Jersey Shortie and OpenBook have enough hate for ten of me. If any of you got what you claim to want from a man you would never appreciate it and you would do everything to try and destroy it so why should us men even bother? The irony is that the men who treat women as objects are the ones that women soon all over. If a woman can't find an equal, happy and fulfilling relationship she has nobody but herself to blame.

 

I'm sorry if my post came across that way to you, Woggs. I adore men; I don't hate them at all. I'm just very, very disappointed in them. Perhaps my expectations were too high when I was younger. And I'm quite sure I have contributed somehow to the end result for me, disillusionment. I just know from my own experience, and many many other women, that we're usually better off going it alone. The price we would pay for "having a man" is simply too high for many of us.