Taramere Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Not attacking cougars of course. Just pointing out that if a man said the above it would be Misogyny O'clock. I think that regardless of gender, anyone who's prowling around a club clearly eyeing up people much younger than them is liable to come off as a bit creepy. I remember being on some package tour with my parents in what was, at the time, Yugoslavia. I was 16 and had met up with some other girls in a similar situation. We (and our parents) were all entertained by the activities of a local man who visited the complex each day. Heavily tanned and dressed in a pair of skimpy briefs, The Predator would spend each morning working his way round the swimming pool trying to engage all the British and German girls in conversation. It was clearly a numbers game for him....and presumably he occasionally met with success, because he arrived each day without fail, never any later than 10am. If he hadn't got lucky now and again, I'm sure he wouldn't have been such a persistent visitor to the place. He was only interested in the younger women (eg teens up to mid twenties). At sixteen, and definitely not looking any older I didn't escape his attentions. Neither did the other girls I met. Standard "player" of the 1980s. "Pssssssssst. I laaaaaave youuuuu. Click click.....would you laaaiike to come and leeve with me in Pula my darling?" It was like the blood-curdling, buzzing intimacy of a mosquito in your ear. I guessed his age at 28. My father said he was more like late 30s, early 40s. Looking back, the guy was undoubtedly in good shape - he had a full head (and crotch - I think I already mentioned the skimpy black briefs) of hair. Despite the careful attention he evidently paid to fitness and personal grooming, he was a laughing stock. Have things really changed so much since then? Link to post Share on other sites
The Collector Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Taramere, clearly there are creepy, laughable predators of both sexes. And I don't think it's always their age that determines the creepiness factor - it's attractiveness. Both Brad Pitt and Halle Berry are 40. Even without their fame, they'd probably float quite a few youg'uns boats. The guy in your story was clearly a scuzzball, and probably would have been when he was younger. And like you said, even if he was laughable, it was (occasionally) working for him. Men have to approach, and he probably thinks he had the last laugh. Plenty of men will go for an older woman that's hot. Possibly even more women will go for the right older man. I can agree with much of what the OP is saying, and understand how insulting/hilarious it is if some pot-bellied creep thinks he can flash his money around to impress some young hottie who will milk him for the free drinks then go and score with the poor guitarist. Nevertheless, I doubt there are many 40ish people here of either sex who would rule out some sexyfuntime with a hot 20 year old. Is there anything wrong with that? Link to post Share on other sites
BoredPerson Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I am with PrettyBaby on this one....if a man is in a relationship with a younger woman, good for them, but don't assume it's all about cash and not about love. But then you can't make snarky remarks about women being with younger men, also, and thinking the guy is just in it for sex. Love who you love but don't make it about stats and what's normal and whatever. Personally I prefer to date within my own age range (a few years older and younger.) I am 37 and an attractive, successful 38 year old man just contacted me through chemistry.com....obviously he doesn't feel the same as men who feel its all about the younger women.(Let me know if you want a link to his profile and tell me he's NOT successful and attractive.) Also, don't assume that young men are broke! I know a 37 year old guy (who happens to be a virgin, but that's another story), who makes $30,000 a year working in his PARENTS' comic book store...sorry,but that's what I made when I started teaching 14 years ago...starting salary, straight outta college...this dude is the same age hasn't made any progress and he graduated college....why did he bother with the college to sell comic books at his parents' shop...At least 14 years later I have doubled my salary....of course that is with the masters degree, which paid for itself in two years from the amount of the salary advancement for achieving this goal. Couldn't this guy by now at least have bought his own shop or bought his parents' shop, or done SOMETHING to further his career...now he finds himself at 37, a virgin, making $30,000 and paying for his own bennies. What a catch, huh, living in a dumpy downtown apartment? Hmmm... THEN we have the 23 year old man I know who is a civil engineer pulling in $75,000 straight out of college....how much are you making, SAMSPADE??? THE RICH SUCCESSFUL GUYS AREN'T ALWAYS THE OLDER GUYS. THERE ARE A LOT OF GO-GETTER SUCCESSFUL MEN IN THEIR 20'S, SO YOU GUYS IN YOUR 40'S, STEP IT UP OR YOU'RE GOING TO GET STOMPED OVER AND PUSHED ASIDE FOR THE 24 YEAR OLDS, ANYWAY. 'YA GOTTA WORK YOUR ASS OFF TO BE SUCCESSFUL. uuummmm.... ok ? or done SOMETHING to further his career...now he finds himself at 37, a virgin, making $30,000 and paying for his own bennies. What a catch, huh, living in a dumpy downtown apartment? Hmmm... But it is not about the money. Posters like the above make it hard to like women. Link to post Share on other sites
Sibyl Vane Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 uuummmm.... ok ? or done SOMETHING to further his career...now he finds himself at 37, a virgin, making $30,000 and paying for his own bennies. What a catch, huh, living in a dumpy downtown apartment? Hmmm... But it is not about the money. Posters like the above make it hard to like women. Indeed. But money is just important to some I guess. Some of us haven't had the time to grow bitter and money grubbing. Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 The guy in your story was clearly a scuzzball, and probably would have been when he was younger. And like you said, even if he was laughable, it was (occasionally) working for him. Men have to approach, and he probably thinks he had the last laugh. If the focused expression his face were anything to go by, it was no laughing matter. Nevertheless, I doubt there are many 40ish people here of either sex who would rule out some sexyfuntime with a hot 20 year old. Is there anything wrong with that? If both parties are of consenting age and attracted to eachother then there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I can't say that personally I'd want to sleep with a 20 year old man. I would feel ridiculous - regardless of how sincere he seemed in his interest. But my personal inhibition about that doesn't need to bind anyone else. I think you already understand what I'm talking about: The sight of anyone snuffling diligently and unfussily around the block for available human flesh to merge with isn't necessarily an enticing and uplifting one. I don't think that suggesting a bit of decorum and the retention of some standards is necessarily the shaming tactic that some PUAs dismiss it as. From my perspective, it's just intended to balance out some of the "it's a numbers game....don't worry about what anyone thinks of you" advice that might sound gung ho and dynamic, but won't necessarily be realistic for many people in practice. My Yugoslavian Predator is an extreme example of how it can go wrong for anyone who is remotely concerned with what others think of them. Which, despite so many protestations to the contrary, I think most people are deep down. And as social animals, I don't think that's necessarily something to feel ashamed of. Most of us are engaged in that tricky balancing act of doing what we want, while having some knowledge of and consideration for social mores. Link to post Share on other sites
boxing123 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 This s cultural.. The USA is more of a feminized society. Weaker men, stronger women. I often hear of women supporting men, because the man is lazy etc. But in my opinion, that woman is not that bright either, and usually miserable. In many other countries men ONLY date much younger women. 40 and 25 is common. When I was abroad I dated a woman whom was my age (31), and she wondered why I was interested in her. She said men my age date women 16-25. And actually it is the women wanting this as well. They know guys in their 20's just want to have fun/get laid/ play the field. Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 The USA is more of a feminized society. Are you kidding? I was just PMing someone about that whole Big-Truck-driving, ruthless "people-are-disposable...NEXT" attitude that seems so popular in the US. I wouldn't describe that as particularly gentle and feminine. What I would say is that I can understand American women feeling that they have to assert themselves and be a bit more ruthless. Don't forget that the US is a society of immigrants, many of whom came from the more traditional countries you're talking about, in search of something better. Not just women, but men too. If things are so peachy for men in the societies you refer to....what were those men running away from? Or towards? The US isn't a feminised society. Good and bad, it's what happens when hungry people get the freedom to pursue their ambitions. Link to post Share on other sites
boxing123 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Taramere... I am not talking about new immigrants. If you want the truth, many 40 year old Hispanic guys are picking up their girlfriends at high school. I am speaking of mainstream America. The poor come to the USA. Not the middle class or wealthy, in most cases. Especially now. The past is different. They still prefer their women and culture. They do not come off the boat and dream of old American women. Once again, it is also what the women in other nations desire. If they are mid-20s they want an older guy. Many younger guys DO NOT want to settle down, nor are they ready to financially. In the USA many girls go to college, take out loans, work, go into debt, or get money from mom and dad. They have no need to settle down. But if they wanted to, and the purse strings were cut, they would seek older men. I even have an ex whom is 32, and she only now dates men in their 50's. And no, she is not a gold digger. Actually far from it. The same is true in Europe, Asia, Latin America. The USA seems to be unique in that older women are even datable at all. And if they did not offer easy sex, most older women would be passed by completely. American men settle. I would also chalk it up to youth in America, (men and women) being very immature for their age. A 21 yr old foreign girl is light years ahead of an American girl at that age. Link to post Share on other sites
The Collector Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I think you already understand what I'm talking about Sure. And you probably understand my motivation for posting in this thread, before I got dragged back on-topic, was to point out male-shaming that would probably have otherwise gone unnoticed, but would have been pounced on by many if the sexes had been reversed. 'Cos that's like, my thing. Should 40 year olds be ashamed of finding 20 year olds attractive and acting on it? As I've said, I'm 40 (to my surprise), and I tend to think younger than 25 would be a bit weird. But I also notice that it's easy to forget how old you are and how young a woman might be. I saw a pretty girl in a pub a few months ago. Was considering the situation when I asked the girl I was with 'Wait, she could be like 17 couldn't she? Wow.' But if that was something I was comfortable with, the clucking of society wouldn't stop me from going for it. (17's legal right?) But like I say I prefer them a bit older, 30 something.. They tend to know what they are doing in bed, don't harp on about political issues they know little about, and are not too bitter or saggy* yet. *see my first ever post on this forum. Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 The same is true in Europe...The USA seems to be unique in that older women are even datable at all. And if they did not offer easy sex, most older women would be passed by completely. American men settle. I live in Europe (UK). I visit France quite often. The older man/younger woman thing isn't as common here in Europe as (if posts on LS are to be believed) it seems to be in the US. I quite regularly go on jaunts to visit friends in other European countries. Do I get approached by men when I'm busy exploring other European cities or at a party? Always. I'm 41, I'm not one of those 41 year olds who looks 30, and I don't wander around the place in some low-cut, leopard print cougar top. Do I get approached if I'm out in my own home town? Fairly often, yes....when it's a warm day, and people are in the mood for flirtation. Why do you try to negate women's real life experiences with your own views of how things are/would be in your ideal world? I'm not suggesting that I'd be more attractive to a 30 year old man than a 20 year old woman is, but spare me this nonsense that I'm not considered dateable in Europe. Link to post Share on other sites
The Collector Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I'm 41, I'm not one of those 41 year olds who looks 30, I thought you looked about 30 when we met. Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I thought you looked about 30 when we met. Shut up and take your cloths off! Link to post Share on other sites
boxing123 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Men "approach" anything with a heart beat depending on how horny they are at that moment. I am speaking of settling down, marriage, ltr. I know, every woman on Loveshack looks 10-20 years younger. And I am not saying 40 and 20. But 45 and 35, or 40 and 28 is pretty normal. Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Men "approach" anything with a heart beat depending on how horny they are at that moment. I am speaking of settling down, marriage, ltr. I know, every woman on Loveshack looks 10-20 years younger. And I am not saying 40 and 20. But 45 and 35, or 40 and 28 is pretty normal. So if world is ticking along exactly as you want it to, what exactly is your gripe with older women? Is it that you think we're unrealistic in not writing ourselves off? That we should stick to jam-making and crocheting after the age of 35? Well, I'm here tapping away on the keyboard telling you that I'm perfectly realistic about my age, that I get on okay with men in general...and that I haven't completely ruled out the notion that I might be loveable. Not in the "let's get married, buy a volvo and have two children" style of love, but a form of love I could be happy with nonetheless. Now, is that ludicrously unrealistic...or is it just the reasonable optimism of someone who hasn't completely given up on the opposite sex? Link to post Share on other sites
boxing123 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I prefer women my own age, or a bit younger. I am not 40 though, so that might change. I didn't read the entire thread. If you are fishing in the right pond, you should be fine. Which is men your age or older. All I am saying is men notice age, and it is important. So when women are young, they should concentrate more on finding a mate, than believing "age does not matter" because of Demi and Ashton. Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I prefer women my own age, or a bit younger. I am not 40 though, so that might change. I didn't read the entire thread. If you are fishing in the right pond, you should be fine. Which is men your age or older. Got it. I shall make up a tag to wear around my neck, proclaiming my date of birth. That should put a stop to any nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 How many times have you been in a club and laughed at the old cougar parading around in her low cut top and Itailan shoes trying to get the attention of men half her age? We all do it because it is a sad pathetic sight that anyone who has an inch of grey matter can spot and laugh at a mile away. Some women are less subtle than that in how they dress and the flesh they display but the desperation is still very noticeable. They are desperately trying to hang on to something that has escaped them many decades ago, no matter how you slice it and that's a humorous thing to see. Not attacking cougars of course. Just pointing out that if a man said the above it would be Misogyny O'clock. I've never seen a man on this board actually stoop to saying something that blatantly hateful, but in all fairness I don't birddog for it either. But we're supposed to be men and we're supposed to shrug that stuff off like men, so I suggest we do that. For the record, cougars were fun. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 In many other countries men ONLY date much younger women. 40 and 25 is common. When I was abroad I dated a woman whom was my age (31), and she wondered why I was interested in her. She said men my age date women 16-25. And actually it is the women wanting this as well. They know guys in their 20's just want to have fun/get laid/ play the field. Yup. Funny enough the oldest woman I'm dating is originally from overseas and when we first met she was concerned she was getting old and she was too old for me. She was 25 at the time. Back home her parents worry because she's still single at her "advanced age". Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Shortie Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 We get it. Women are worthless and men are wonderful. Women suck, we lose, we don't deserve love after 25 meanwhile you at 40+ deserve it. We get it. Women lose. Men win. Men are wonderful, powerful strong and women are worthless pieces of crap that don't deserve anything. I come here day after day and hear all the men lay it on how much women matter nad how little value we have. It's discouraging and it makes me think that I have to self protect myself against men instead of opening up to them. If this is how men view us, I give up. I'm so sorry I didn't marry some 40 year old sceeve when I was 16 to make all the men in the world happy. I use to think that men had the best interests in mind for women, I am no longer so naive. It's not a bout what a man can give to a woman, it's only about what she has to give and what he can take. I see many guys here time after time only qualify what he thinks a woman should offer him yet doesn't take the time to evulate himself and what he offers. But LS has taught me that I have to protecting myself against men and their lowly opinion of me as I age instead of openning myself up to one. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 We get it. Women are worthless and men are wonderful. Women suck, we lose, we don't deserve love after 25 meanwhile you at 40+ deserve it. We get it. Women lose. Men win. Men are wonderful, powerful strong and women are worthless pieces of crap that don't deserve anything. I come here day after day and hear all the men lay it on how much women matter nad how little value we have. It's discouraging and it makes me think that I have to self protect myself against men instead of opening up to them. If this is how men view us, I give up. I'm so sorry I didn't marry some 40 year old sceeve when I was 16 to make all the men in the world happy. I use to think that men had the best interests in mind for women, I am no longer so naive. It's not a bout what a man can give to a woman, it's only about what she has to give and what he can take. I see many guys here time after time only qualify what he thinks a woman should offer him yet doesn't take the time to evulate himself and what he offers. But LS has taught me that I have to protecting myself against men and their lowly opinion of me as I age instead of openning myself up to one. That may be how clv views women, but real "men" don't generally view women this way. He's truly in a league all his own, which is why he knows he'll have to bring his pay stub along when he looks for a mate. He has already stated that is going to be the big attraction for the woman he looks for. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 We get it. Women are worthless and men are wonderful. Women suck, we lose, we don't deserve love after 25 meanwhile you at 40+ deserve it. .... But LS has taught me that I have to protecting myself against men and their lowly opinion of me as I age instead of openning myself up to one. I've tried to explain to you that that's not what I think but you are deaf to me. Until you deal with whatever pain is hurting you you can't hear what I'm saying, I understand that now. All the best to you, I'm sure you are a wonderful and worthy person. Link to post Share on other sites
c-riouz Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Hey Jersey, don't give up. The men here on LS are NOT a representation of ALL men. Reading too much on LS just makes you jaded and losing hope. I can understand how that can happen, because it's happened to me as well. LS is kind of like only reading the bad news of the world, i.e. how unsafe the world has become, how there's so much crime, and that your area is prone to crime as well, when in reality your own home might be pretty safe (I hope this analogy works). When you've had bad experiences with men in the past (judging from your postings we both have similar issues, so I understand you), reading some of the male postings here just reinforce those bad experiences, but I've found someone who is NOT like these men here, and I hope one day you will find such a wonderful man too. Until then don't lose hope - and maybe it's a good idea to stay away from here for a while. Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Shortie Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Bull crap Clv...it's the message you keep wanting to drive home to the women of LS. Stop being so freaking demeaning and patronizing. You keep wanting to stress how women shouldn't want or expect love and relationships after a certain age yet toot your own horn about how deserving you are of it. You deserve it but women don't. Now your saying 25 year old women are too old. I am so discouraged about men right now. I really give up. There is no way that men want to give us the oppurtunity to win with them. Instead it seems that quite a few of them want to belittle and discourage. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 JS, don't legitimize ANYTHING clv has to say by actually putting any weight on it. I mean, think about it. We should pity him - a guy who knows he'll have to buy a wife. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Now your saying 25 year old women are too old. No, I merely related a humorous anecdote for the enjoyment of others. Again, you insist on seeing things in a horrible light. Link to post Share on other sites
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