The "Talk" (a sub-thread from "Why I believe best friends shouldn't date")

[paddington bear]

She begged me not to change towards her, said she needs me and she'd be crushed.

 

I have NEVER in my life connected with someone like this, it seems such a shame.

 

I've got exactly the same 'I need you' line - and that is flattering, someone really needs you in their life, wants you there, doesn't want to lose you, it's things like that that keep you clinging on in there. And I agree, when you say it's a shame, I've used the same phrase myself, it does seem such a pity when there's such an emotional connection there, that is very intense at times that it cannot move forward into anything other than some kind of strange holding pattern.

 

WT Ranger you've said it, succinctly and perfectly

 

"they assume that you'll always be there for them so they can take their sweet ass time while they are still in the spotlight. When you move on, to protect yourself, they end up shocked and somehow make you out to be this ogre. Well what did they honestly think? A person can only take so many mind benders before they just give up and move on."

 

I am feeling somewhat of an ogre right now. Was talking to a friend last night and she said 'for starters keep thinking 'what do I want?' over and over and base all your actions from that point, instead of worrying about what the other person wants and trying to fulfil their expectations at a terrible personal cost to yourself.

[vanilla87]

Well I've been on both sides of the wall and I can tell you most of the time its not to abuse the friendship for its own personal gain. Its more so she enjoys having a guy around thats a friend that she know will never hit on her or try to take advantage of her but also be there for her when she asks for advice and a shoulder to cry on when her girlfriends are not as supportive cause they "don't get it".

 

Also you should have told her you need time alone, don't know for how long, but till she makes up her mind, you should put a wedge in between, not tell her you can't be friends anymore. I mean put yourself in her shoes and pretend for a second you don't have feelings for her and she did and she said she couldn't be friends with you because she has feelings for you, you'd probably be confused, hurt, and wondering how this happened and why is she doing this.

 

Also girls are more then guys likely to wait it out longer and bury the feelings if nothing ever comes of it over time and date other guys in the mean time cause they either think it'll cause him to get jealous or help her get over her feelings for the guy friend she has in her life.

 

 

 

I think a few good examples of american tv or movies are examples of this:

 

Ross and Rachel - He was in love with her since the 9th grade and they we're in the mid-20's. She finally fell for him when he was gone in china. He came back with a girlfriend. She held it in for 3-4 months before she accidently drunk dialed him and left a message saying she got "closure" and he ended up finding out, which led to a huge fight and then making up by a huge make out session in the rain.(Friends - tv show)

 

Harry and Sally - Two people that end up becoming best friends after 10 years of getting to know one another and end up sleeping together one night. It ends up a disaster and her needing space from him because he only wants to stay friends. He finally realizes after 6 months of no real time together that he is in fact in love with her on new years eve. Goes to find her tells her why he loves her and they kiss. (when harry met sally)

 

Tom and Hannah - They met in college he thought she was her roommate and she thought he was cocky and too sexed up for all the freshman for his senior year. They stayed friends for 10 years. Had spent sunday brunch together for years. She was sort of in love with him, but the two always dated other people and he never notice till one day she told him she was going to Scotland for work and won't be back for 6 weeks. He tried to fill the time with other girls and work. He realized about a week before she came back that he was in fact in love with her. She came home with a guy named Colin and they were going to get married in 3 months. He then, with the help of his friends, all tried to get Hannah to break it off with Colin. She ended up making him the Maid of Honor for her wedding. Finally on the night of bachelorette party in Scotland, he kisses her. They tried to figure out what is going on and he then gets caught in a weird situation with her cousin that is drunk. He then leaves the morning of the wedding and then realizes he can't, goes back and crashes the wedding. Saying he loves her and wants to be with her and she agrees she feels the same. He gets the punched by Colin and then Hannah and Tom get married about a year later. (Made of Honor)

 

Erica and Ethan - Been best friends since their freshman year at college. He ended up dating this girl named Claire who 10 years later he ends up getting a divorce after only 7 years of marriage. She asked him to be her date to her high school reunion where he pretended to be her boyfriend and everyone thought that they were, even the picture they had taken made him think so. Erica and Ethan share a kiss one night in his apartment after a really bad night happens to him. Then they don't really talk about what happens. She ends up finding a new guy named Ryan and she ends up finding out Ethan and Claire are working things out and trying again. After a night where Ryan couldn't take her to a work party, she had Ethan go with her instead and Ryan showed up anyway and accused her of having feelings for him and vice versa for Ethan. She told him it wasn't true and that after they started to walk on home, she told him that it couldn't work out and that he was right all along. She then went home professed her love to Ethan and told her that he was still married. They didn't talk for a month, he tried to but she couldn't. Then after a book reading her company was hired to do, Ethan and Claire show up and she makes a comment to Claire which upsets her and runs out and Ethan runs after her and Erica follows. They get into a huge fight where she accuses him if he was really trying to work on his marriage he wouldn't still be in the same city as her and be with his wife. Two days later he comes over to her place tells her its off with Claire and that she was right and they kiss and start dating. (Being Erica - tv show)

[treyfan88]

The Talk, eh?

 

Well...my bf and I started out as online friends so perhaps it's a little different. Anyways, I was honest with him. Once I figured out that I liked him, I just told him. No flowery words or anything cheesy like that--I was matter-of-fact about it. I said something along the lines of:

 

"I think I like you more than friends. My heart isn't made of glass, so if you don't feel the same way, it won't shatter me or anything. You can tell me. No big deal. I'm not expecting a response from you, I just wanted to tell you how I felt."

 

I was 18. He was 28. I was truly expecting him to say something like: "Run along now, little girl, I'm much too old for you." But he surprised me by saying he felt the same.

 

I find that just being honest is the best way to go about it. It will change your relationship with your friend, but isn't that better than keeping it locked up inside? Unable to act on your true feelings? There's some risk involved with any confession--the other party might not feel the same way--but either way, it's a good learning experience.

 

I have to be true to myself, regardless of the consequences. It's MY life after all. I don't want to tiptoe around my life. I do what I want when I want and go through life with no regrets. That's the best way to do it.

[WTRanger]

I think a few good examples of american tv or movies are examples of this:

 

You can't forget to mention "The Graduate" , the real movie the 1967 version, and all of it's spin-offs. IE Wayne's World 2, The Simpsons when Abe Simpson falls in love with Marge's mom. In the end, Marge's mom doesn't want to be with either Mr. Burns or Abe Simpson to which Abe replies, "Hot diggity! That's good enough for me!!" and they run off to catch the bus in a similar yet legally distinct scene from "The Graduate."

 

Oh, and "Almost Famous" has a pretty good story line about a guy falling for a girl and some classic lines about love and music.

 

Lester Bangs: Aw, man. You made friends with them. See, friendship is the booze they feed you. They want you to get drunk on feeling like you belong.

William Miller: Well, it was fun.

Lester Bangs: They make you feel cool. And hey. I met you. You are not cool.

William Miller: I know. Even when I thought I was, I knew I wasn't.

Lester Bangs: That's because we're uncool. And while women will always be a problem for us, most of the great art in the world is about that very same problem. Good-looking people don't have any spine. Their art never lasts. They get the girls, but we're smarter.

William Miller: I can really see that now.

Lester Bangs: Yeah, great art is about conflict and pain and guilt and longing and love disguised as sex, and sex disguised as love... and let's face it, you got a big head start.

William Miller: I'm glad you were home.

Lester Bangs: I'm always home. I'm uncool.

Wlliam Milleri: Me too!

Lester Bangs: The only true currency in this bankrupt world if what we share with someone else when we're uncool.

William Miller: I feel better.

Lester Bangs: My advice to you. I know you think those guys are your friends. You wanna be a true friend to them? Be honest, and unmerciful

 

I still prefer the end of "Wet Hot American Summer" where the girl completely dumps the nice guy for the tool whom she is sexually attracted to but he generally treats her like crap. That's more real life and that's why it's such a brilliant ending.

[vanilla87]

You can't forget to mention "The Graduate" , the real movie the 1967 version, and all of it's spin-offs. IE Wayne's World 2, The Simpsons when Abe Simpson falls in love with Marge's mom. In the end, Marge's mom doesn't want to be with either Mr. Burns or Abe Simpson to which Abe replies, "Hot diggity! That's good enough for me!!" and they run off to catch the bus in a similar yet legally distinct scene from "The Graduate."

 

Oh, and "Almost Famous" has a pretty good story line about a guy falling for a girl and some classic lines about love and music.

 

All good choices, but I was using movie examples where the two people that end up becoming best friends and someone ends up falling in love with their friend and how it works out in the end. I mean no offense, your examples are all about love, in general, but I'm trying to use something that has a relation to the thread in general, thats all...

[WTRanger]

Unfortunately this isn't Hollywood and as much as I would love to believe that in my situation it will all work out, deep down I know it wont'. I'll always be good friends with this girl and nothing more and as time goes by and my feelings fade and I meet someone new, I'll be extremely happy to have kept her in my life as a friend. But that's all it will ever be, friends.

 

If this was Hollywood, me the shy guy would have married the super hot spunky outgoing girl who lived next door. Unfortunately I fell so hard for her I broke my jaw, and she in turn broke my heart. This was all a few years back so now it's kind of comical to me but at the time it was no laughing matter.

[MagicRat09]

I'm going through the struggling phase (it's only been a week).

 

She asked me to hang out (in a group) twice since I told her, I said no both times. I was legitimately busy so I wasn't being mean, but anyway I think I'd really like to get out of that situation for a while. To get my mind off her, AND to show I don't need her that much (which I don't, I'm just still reeling.)

[vanilla87]

Unfortunately this isn't Hollywood and as much as I would love to believe that in my situation it will all work out, deep down I know it wont'. I'll always be good friends with this girl and nothing more and as time goes by and my feelings fade and I meet someone new, I'll be extremely happy to have kept her in my life as a friend. But that's all it will ever be, friends.

 

Probably very true. But things happen, people change and sometimes have a change of heart. If someone ever had feelings for someone, its usually still there about 90% of the time if they were in love at some point. Thats why some people still end up getting back together or trying years later with a friend of ex lover, because the spark is still there or they suddenly realize that even though they buried their feelings and "thought" they were over this person they feel like they got it over the head with a frying pan of truth when they realize they still love this person.

 

You'd be surprised that sometimes people do grow on one another and things develop on a subconscious level, which then stews over time. When it finally hits 'em, thats usually when you've either have moved on to someone who will want you back or there is a moment, one that usually speaks volumes where you just know you have feelings for each other, its always there in their eyes.

 

If this was Hollywood, me the shy guy would have married the super hot spunky outgoing girl who lived next door. Unfortunately I fell so hard for her I broke my jaw, and she in turn broke my heart. This was all a few years back so now it's kind of comical to me but at the time it was no laughing matter.

 

Actually if this was hollywood, you'd probably be the guy that wouldn't even notice the girl that was in love with you and finally notice when she gets all dressed up for some event you both have to go to. Then you realize you want to be with her but that only happens after she already meets a great guy. Then you'd probably have to fight for her attention and so forth. It'll end with the climax of you two ending up together in some very dorky cinematic way.

 

 

 

But what do I know, I'm only 21, my guy friend has pegged any future possibility as "fitting a square peg into a round hole" situation, even though I know, and my best friend who is also his best friend, knows as well, that its just "there". All I know is over time, and I can wait, I've grown very patient for the right people in my life, that he is just so screwed up that he can't function well in a relationship right now or with another woman on a romantic level. So I'm waiting. You all probably think I'm nuts, but when you just know, you don't doubt, you wait, while you go play with others or keep yourself very busy so you don't have to think about it. I may seem stubborn and reluctant, but I'm not dumb, just smart enough to know that my instincts tell me what I see and hear, which with him always contradict each other when it comes to him telling me he wants more then friendship. I'm pretty much onto him at this point about what's really going on, actually i've always known the truth, just never had the correct amount of guts to call him out on it. Oh well, in due time, my waiting will pay off...

 

 

-I wish everyone else the best of luck with their situation and hope everyone gets an outcome that you all feel is best for each and everyone of you in the long run.-

[vanilla87]

I'm going through the struggling phase (it's only been a week).

 

Well compared to everyone else on this sub-thread and LS in general, you are at the very beginning stages of it. You've got ways to go before the really annoying parts kick in, trust me, keep yourself very busy during those times...

 

She asked me to hang out (in a group) twice since I told her, I said no both times. I was legitimately busy so I wasn't being mean, but anyway I think I'd really like to get out of that situation for a while. To get my mind off her, AND to show I don't need her that much (which I don't, I'm just still reeling.)

 

So you have a valied reason as to why you couldn't hang out. She shouldn't be mad at you for that, ever. But next time you should go, for maybe 20 minutes and then leave and have something else planned, so that it'll get her thinking why your too busy to be around her and why now. It'll make her think about the conversation and start to analyze it all and your friendship at some point, which could get her thinking if maybe there is something there between the two of you. More it'll happen if she catches you either 1)kissing another girl in front of her, but not on purpose, has to be real and genuine or 2)realizes it when your are no longer around for weeks or months finally sees that she needs you in her life.

 

Trust me the moment you are really gone for too long will make a girl long for you if your best friends. I bet you she is avoiding and trying to act all cool and innocent is because she doesn't want things to be weird between the two of you and hoping you feel the same way about the situation. But also any girl that avoids a conversation, I'll let you guys in on a small secret: she is avoiding due to the fact that she is trying not to deal with what she feels inside about whatever it is and is mulling it over or talking it out with her best friend about it. Either way you won't ever know cause she is all calm and doesn't seem affect.

 

No girl will say its getting under her skin unless she is arguing with you about it or extremely upset about the situation, you have to rock the boat if you really wanna know what a girl thinks after you tell her how you feel, kind of something to throw her off balance, a type of declaration, like in those romantic comedies. Why do you think so many women watch 'em? Because they want a guy to actually be creative in telling us, be 100% sure about how he feels for a girl, and not worry if he is going to look stupid doing so. Risks like that are what we want if you are going to put your feelings on the line.

 

One safe bet is stand in front of her, less then 2 feet from her, look her in the eyes, tell her how you exactly feel, don't let her speak at all while your talking, and then grab her face and kiss her like there is no tomorrow, but sweetly with tons of passion. You are sure to take her breathe away with that, which could make her kiss you back or push you off and then be all confused and talk it out and she could then realize, from the passion that there is chemistry and sparkage, which she wants in a guy she wants to date.

 

Guys just kiss the girl you like if your friends, but make sure its when she is alone with you and there is a moment between the two of you, then go in for the kill so to speak. You won't regret it, because it'll let her know how you feel. Trust me, if that doesn't work after you kiss tell her how you feel so its crystal clear.

[MagicRat09]

Thanks so much for your input Vanilla...great avatar by the way, I heart P. Sawyer!

 

 

One positive thing I should say is that I generally feel very good, my self-esteem is too strong to really take a beating like it used to in the past when I was rejected or dumped. I think I held back because I was afraid of what it would do to me if I didn't get the response that I wanted.

 

But you know? When I told her, I was filled with a confidence and strength that did not fade when I got her answer. It was a personal triumph.

[WTRanger]

I've grown very patient for the right people in my life, that he is just so screwed up that he can't function well in a relationship right now or with another woman on a romantic level. So I'm waiting. You all probably think I'm nuts, but when you just know, you don't doubt, you wait, while you go play with others or keep yourself very busy so you don't have to think about it. I may seem stubborn and reluctant, but I'm not dumb, just smart enough to know that my instincts tell me what I see and hear, which with him always contradict each other when it comes to him telling me he wants more then friendship.

 

I couldn't have said my situation in reverse any better. You have to go with your gut, plain and simple. You are one of the few rays of hope on this board. Most people would advise to cut them off, go NC, and turn your back on them. That doesn't work in these cases, because there is no animosity between anyone. There is no reason to cut them off completely. In fact, that would just make things worse. It's just unclear, and when life is unclear you have to go with your instincts. That's why we have them. I know I shouldn't strap myself with salmon fillets and go running around nude in the Alaskan wilderness because instincts, and a good dose of common sense, tell me that I'd be bear food within minutes.

 

We shall see in my case what a good dose of real distance does to someone. In a few weeks I'm about to move across the country and away from her. When I told her how I felt a few months ago, I had no idea I'd be moving so this all happened during the waiting stage(s). Either way, I'm going to try my hardest to keep her in my life as a friend or whatever the future holds for us.

[WTRanger]

But you know? When I told her, I was filled with a confidence and strength that did not fade when I got her answer. It was a personal triumph.

 

That's because you did what you wanted to do. Regardless of the outcome, you did what most people only dream about doing. Even if the other person's answer is the most destructive no you have ever been told, you still feel an accomplishment for telling them something personal. Honestly, even if the other person doesn't admit it, this has to at least flatter them a little. For someone to open up to you, even if you don't exactly feel the same way, has to make you feel all fuzzy inside.

 

There seems to be more and more of us in this waiting room. Maybe we should give it a name?

[vanilla87]

I couldn't have said my situation in reverse any better. You have to go with your gut, plain and simple. You are one of the few rays of hope on this board. Most people would advise to cut them off, go NC, and turn your back on them. That doesn't work in these cases, because there is no animosity between anyone. There is no reason to cut them off completely. In fact, that would just make things worse. It's just unclear, and when life is unclear you have to go with your instincts.

 

I think after years of getting signals from my instincts on what was right and ignoring it and then doing the wrong thing and ending up very unhappy, I've finally taught myself to actually pay attention to that part of me that says "STOP! You need to listen to me for a second or you will regret it!"

 

I think if most people would trust their intuition, that part of themselves that tells them no matter how hard thy believe what someone is saying and doing, that their instincts tell 'em the opposite, you should listen. The one thing i was taught by military standards is always go with your first gut instinct, because your usually 99.9% correct on your first guess.

 

That's why we have them. I know I shouldn't strap myself with salmon fillets and go running around nude in the Alaskan wilderness because instincts, and a good dose of common sense, tell me that I'd be bear food within minutes.

now that would be something to witness...

 

We shall see in my case what a good dose of real distance does to someone. In a few weeks I'm about to move across the country and away from her. When I told her how I felt a few months ago, I had no idea I'd be moving so this all happened during the waiting stage(s). Either way, I'm going to try my hardest to keep her in my life as a friend or whatever the future holds for us.

 

I wish you good luck with the move and also wish you the best of luck with your friend. I say in about 2 1/2 - 3 months she will really start to feel as though there is a huge gapping hole in her life and it'll be like a light turned on and realized it was you who she needs back in her life. When that happens don't give in too easily, because if she wants you she can either come find you or wait till you come back and visit, giving in will only be giving her what she exactly wants and that might actually bore her a little and then she will want to find someone else to occupy her time, some girls are just that fickle and she seems that fickle...

[vanilla87]

Thanks so much for your input Vanilla...great avatar by the way, I heart P. Sawyer!

Your very welcome, I'm always have an ear or for this a pair of eyes, lol, to read and give feedback where it is needed.

 

P. Sawyer is awesome. I'm a total Leyton fan, lol the irony is I'm in the exact same boat as she was in season 5. Being in limbo sucks lol.

 

 

One positive thing I should say is that I generally feel very good, my self-esteem is too strong to really take a beating like it used to in the past when I was rejected or dumped. I think I held back because I was afraid of what it would do to me if I didn't get the response that I wanted.

 

But you know? When I told her, I was filled with a confidence and strength that did not fade when I got her answer. It was a personal triumph.

 

Don't let her take away how you feel, stay positive, thats the best thing you can do for yourself no matter what happens. Cause to let it work you up, it'll only break down your spirit and make you feel worse and vulnerable to doing something you will regret, like most of the posters, they end up cutting off contact asap, or saying some really mean things or just walk away and never look back and say "screw it! I don't need that person if they don't want me like that!", which all three i find very selfish and sort of a little immature, especially if the person never knew you liked them that way, cause some people are just "friendly" and flirt with anything that moves.

 

I think guys, more then girls, are more likely to avoid a girl for as long as he lives if she slights his pride in rejection, where as a girl will just be surprised, sit there with a look on her face, wondering what just happened, probably do that nervous smile, maybe say something and then try and leave and go home and maybe have a really good cry and then avoid the guy for like 3-4 weeks or for a few days. Then picks herself back up and acts like it never happened and if they were friends she will go back to before the talk and not let it affect her.

 

For instance, I'll use our gal Peyton. When she liked Lucas during season four, she waited and waited and waited. When she finally told him, she knew he had no one standing in her way of trying to be with him. But she told him and said "Oh.." mumbled something about being friends, then left her alone in her room the night before the big state championship basketball game. So they win the game, he goes over to her they act like it wasn't a huge deal and she tells him "nice shot.." and he responds with "nice legs, kind of chickeny...", she then says "Well I'll be seeing ya.." like he told her about a year to two years earlier on the river court after a big win and thats when he realized she was the one he wanted next to her when all his dreams come true and then they kissed under all the confetti as it kept falling and surrounded by their team mates and fans of tree hill ravens...

 

Now this is a great quote that shows it:

"Suddenly it was as if the roar of the crowd, the echo of the final buzzers, the cheers of my teammates were all sounding from 1,000 miles away, and what remained in that bizarre, muffled silence was only peyton. The girl whose art, passion, and beauty had changed my life. In that moment, my triumph was not a state championship, but simple clarity. The realization that we had always been meant for each other and every instinct to the contrary had simply been a denial of the following truth - I was now and would always be in love with peyton sawyer..."

[MagicRat09]

Yes I remember that scene so well! And I certainly know how Peyton felt that whole time. Sigh, one longs for a moment like that.

 

It happened on "My Boys" last week, where the girl was obsessing for months over the guy who was getting married, and he called it off and she FINALLY told him how she felt and he was all "me too." And I'm sitting there goin,' "That's what was supposed to happen!" LOL

[s3139646]

There's one thing I never really understood about this friend zone thing. I mean, why does the nice guy usually end up as the best friend? Yet, the douche more often than not ends up the boyfriend, to which the girl is oblivious to, concerning how much of a douche he is. Best example of this is Stewie in Family Guy when Olivia returns and Brian teaches him that girls, apparently are attracted to jerks. lol Frustratingly funny yet true.

 

Logically, you'd think that the rule of being nice will get you what you want, but it's usually the 'nice guys finish last' sort of situation. Oh well. Please, anyone, particularly girls; insight?

[MagicRat09]

I was just thinking back to when i first met her. It was the best first impression I ever made. I immediately picked up on something and started teasing her about it, I had her exploding with laughter and she was all "Who IS this guy?"

 

But she was involved with someone, and continued to be for so long after that by the time she was finally free I was already stuck in the friend zone! If she had been available I would have asked her out point blank. UGH! So frustrating.

[paddington bear]

You have to go with your gut, plain and simple...Most people would advise to cut them off, go NC, and turn your back on them. That doesn't work in these cases, because there is no animosity between anyone. There is no reason to cut them off completely. In fact, that would just make things worse. It's just unclear, and when life is unclear you have to go with your instincts.... Either way, I'm going to try my hardest to keep her in my life as a friend or whatever the future holds for us.

 

Sorry to say, but I said and thought and did exactly what you said above. Thought I could handle it, went with instincts. However, there were warning bells and any time they ring, I assess them and in this case I ignored them and convinced myself that 'I can for sure handle this'. Then months/years later, I realise that I had over-estimated my abilities to handle it. Sure we can all handle hanging out as friends with someone we love and want...for a while...but for anything sustainable, long-term, no, I can't handle it at all and I don't think anybody with any kind of feelings can either. The end result will be gross emotional pain. IMO better to do NC initially, a short, sharp, shock that hurts yes, but better that than a long-drawn out, quite involved relationship which becomes closer and closer yet not close enough and then is ulitmately much harder to extricate yourself from much further down the line.

 

Being in love with someone who doesn't love you back the way you want is a recipie for total disaster, unless you happen to meet someone else you can fall in love with, but the problem with that is, you won't meet that other person, because you're obsessed with and regularly seeing the person you love and want all the time through being 'friends' so never get a chance to get over them, so it's a double-whammy, you don't get the person you love and by hanging out with your unrequited you lose out on meeting someone who can offer you what you want because even if you kid yourself otherwise, your head and heart are all theirs and that is hard to move on from without distance.

 

And there was no animosity for me either, in both of my unrequited friendship/love situations. But in a way, for me, there is animosity now, it's growing and it's taken some time, but months of hanging out with this person with 'unresolved issues' which will probably never get resolved, has actually started turning me against him. "Why doesn't he want me?" "What's so f***ing wrong with me?" "Why am I still doing this to myself?" "He's getting what he wants, but I'm not getting what I want" and on and on.

 

Being around him on a consistent basis is basically making me feel totally sh*t about myself. The indecisive person e.g. this particular 'friend' of mine can only get away with being indecisive for so long, then the other half of the 'couple' i.e. me, starts to get resentful of being flirted with, being in a very close intense relationship, that feels like a full-blown love affair, but without the sex and intimacy.

 

What's happened to me is that along with that having to hear about the other dates, the confusion about an ex, the not wanting a relationship, (whatever gazzillion reasons for not wanting you) meant that one day I suddenly had enough. But to them, for no reason whatsoever your attitude has changed and you're not the nice friend that they wanted around to support them, you're now this resentful person who instead of being someone that they are happy to be around is someone who is not so supportive, not so nice, a bit distant for no discernable reason, maybe snaps a bit when they mention their love life etc. and they simply cannot understand what has happened. But for you all that unresolved emotional turmoil has to come to a head at some point and so how you relate to them will change, I can guarantee it. 'Hell hath no fury like a woman (or man!) scorned' - and you can only kid yourself for so long that you haven't been scorned, when you realise the full reality of the situation. It may take some time, but you WILL realise that the situation is not going to change and when that realisation hits, when you finally admit to yourself that you've been kidding yourself, it hurts so badly and after the hurt comes anger at yourself for being so stupid and at the other person for leading you on, even if they've verbally said that they just want to be friends, you will still feel like you've been led down the garden path.

 

As far as your 'friend' is concerned they've laid what they want and need from your relationship out on a plate and you either accept it or not. You've accepted the friendship on offer, despite wanting more, and by accepting it you have agreed to platonic frienship only, agree to hearing about other men/women/lovers in that person's life and really, there is only so long that a human being with feelings and any degree of pride can sustain the pretence that 'oh it's fine! That's great! You had a date! I'm soooo happy for you'. You're living an absolute bit fat lie by doing that and it hurts really, really badly to constantly have to pretend.

 

And back to the original topic, if you'd been brave enough to have the talk and tell that person 'no, I want more, and I'm sorry that means we can't hang out because it will be too hard for me' then that avoids all the heartache ahead, and belive you me, there will be heartache, unless some other perosn comes along and sweeps you off your feet. Otherwise eventually you will start resenting and hating them for not wanting you and worst of all, they will have no idea why you've suddenly changed, unaware that you simply cannot stand any longerto be slowly rejected day after day, week after week, month after month - it's really not good for your self-esteem or indeed general happiness and I might add, mental health.

 

So, on that note, go with your gut instincts (going with gut instincts is always good so long as they are not second-guessing your original gut instincts, trying to pretend to yourself that your gut says 'yes' when in fact orignially it said 'no'), but realise that down the line (and I'm far, far down the line) that you may end up sniping, being somewhat nasty to the object of your affection simply because they STILL don't want you in that way -even if you've convinced them, your other friends and even yourself that you no longer want them, deep down you do, deep down there is that hope there or you wouldn't be hanging around them, hanging on, hoping when there is no hope.

 

If you actually really, truly looked at the situation as it is and will always be and realised that things are not ever going to change. Imagine this friend of yours utterly in love and happy with some other person, talking about them all the time, holding hands, discussing marriage in front of you would you still want to hang out with them all the time? No! Because all that hope would be gone, you would see your relationship with them for what it really is, a friendship and nothing more and never will be anything more than that.

 

If that scenario is one you'd be happy with, fine, go ahead, be friends, but I'm guessing for most of us in this situation we're hoping against hope that someday, some change might happen and the friend will one day decide that actually they do want you and of course when you're obsessed and in love with someone else you just simply want to be around them no matter what, but if we realised that that situation is not sustainable and actually forcibly crushed every last little ounce of hope in our hearts then we might see the situation as it is, rather than what we want it to be.

 

We're all in imaginary relationships, like in the movies mentioned above, the plotline being that the other person suddenly realises that what they wanted was right there in front of them all that time and BINGO! Love blossoms. Doesn't work that way...or at least it doesn't while they think that they could have you any time they want, that you're some kind of lap-dog, hanging on their every word, loving them even if they don't love you back, thinking that you're happy with friendship when you're not. When you initiate NC either they disappear from your life or begin to miss you and respect the fact that you have some self-respect for yourself instead of being some kind of sad love-sick puppy (and let's face it, that's hardly sexy now is it?)

 

Ultimately these relationships are a kind of power play, maybe not a conscious one, but a power play nonetheless. Both people state what they want, one says 'I want only friendship' the other says 'I want more than friendship'. The person wanting more gives up any power and self-respect by bowing down to the wishes of the person wanting only friendship and it is a strain to pretend always that your feelings for them are purely on a friends level. It's a strain to try to meet other people when no one matches up to the person that you are in love with, who you see and talk to all the time.

 

Utimately by agreeing to be friends you've just given away all the power to be happy, to feel loved to a person who cannot, for whatever reason, give you what you want, which ultimately only leaves you feeling like a total loser, like a total worthless piece of junk to be picked up and abandoned at will while they decide who they want to date and what they want. We are the ones who know what we want, are descisive to some degree, we want that other person. But they don't want us, so why should anyone allow their heart to be battered about by someone who can't make their mind up? Our only fault is not following through on being decisive. We know what we want, we go for it, we don't get it, instead of sticking to our guns and thinking 'right, all or nothing' by agreeing to friendship when we want more, we turn into powerless wimps.

 

Sorry for the long post...and the bitterness, but I am at that 'I hate you because you won't love me' stage and due to my particular circumstances it is impossible for me to do the NC thing, which means I somehow have to deal with seeing this person every bloody day which makes it much harder for me to move on and get over them and not be reminded over and over that they don't want me. NC would be wonderful right now, if it were only possible. Don't dismiss it out of hand.

[Charles1978]

Sorry to say, but I said and thought and did exactly what you said above. Thought I could handle it, went with instincts. However, there were warning bells and any time they ring, I assess them and in this case I ignored them and convinced myself that 'I can for sure handle this'. Then months/years later, I realise that I had over-estimated my abilities to handle it. Sure we can all handle hanging out as friends with someone we love and want...for a while...but for anything sustainable, long-term, no, I can't handle it at all and I don't think anybody with any kind of feelings can either. The end result will be gross emotional pain. IMO better to do NC initially, a short, sharp, shock that hurts yes, but better that than a long-drawn out, quite involved relationship which becomes closer and closer yet not close enough and then is ulitmately much harder to extricate yourself from much further down the line.

 

Being in love with someone who doesn't love you back the way you want is a recipie for total disaster, unless you happen to meet someone else you can fall in love with, but the problem with that is, you won't meet that other person, because you're obsessed with and regularly seeing the person you love and want all the time through being 'friends' so never get a chance to get over them, so it's a double-whammy, you don't get the person you love and by hanging out with your unrequited you lose out on meeting someone who can offer you what you want because even if you kid yourself otherwise, your head and heart are all theirs and that is hard to move on from without distance.

 

And there was no animosity for me either, in both of my unrequited friendship/love situations. But in a way, for me, there is animosity now, it's growing and it's taken some time, but months of hanging out with this person with 'unresolved issues' which will probably never get resolved, has actually started turning me against him. "Why doesn't he want me?" "What's so f***ing wrong with me?" "Why am I still doing this to myself?" "He's getting what he wants, but I'm not getting what I want" and on and on.

 

Being around him on a consistent basis is basically making me feel totally sh*t about myself. The indecisive person e.g. this particular 'friend' of mine can only get away with being indecisive for so long, then the other half of the 'couple' i.e. me, starts to get resentful of being flirted with, being in a very close intense relationship, that feels like a full-blown love affair, but without the sex and intimacy.

 

What's happened to me is that along with that having to hear about the other dates, the confusion about an ex, the not wanting a relationship, (whatever gazzillion reasons for not wanting you) meant that one day I suddenly had enough. But to them, for no reason whatsoever your attitude has changed and you're not the nice friend that they wanted around to support them, you're now this resentful person who instead of being someone that they are happy to be around is someone who is not so supportive, not so nice, a bit distant for no discernable reason, maybe snaps a bit when they mention their love life etc. and they simply cannot understand what has happened. But for you all that unresolved emotional turmoil has to come to a head at some point and so how you relate to them will change, I can guarantee it. 'Hell hath no fury like a woman (or man!) scorned' - and you can only kid yourself for so long that you haven't been scorned, when you realise the full reality of the situation. It may take some time, but you WILL realise that the situation is not going to change and when that realisation hits, when you finally admit to yourself that you've been kidding yourself, it hurts so badly and after the hurt comes anger at yourself for being so stupid and at the other person for leading you on, even if they've verbally said that they just want to be friends, you will still feel like you've been led down the garden path.

 

As far as your 'friend' is concerned they've laid what they want and need from your relationship out on a plate and you either accept it or not. You've accepted the friendship on offer, despite wanting more, and by accepting it you have agreed to platonic frienship only, agree to hearing about other men/women/lovers in that person's life and really, there is only so long that a human being with feelings and any degree of pride can sustain the pretence that 'oh it's fine! That's great! You had a date! I'm soooo happy for you'. You're living an absolute bit fat lie by doing that and it hurts really, really badly to constantly have to pretend.

 

And back to the original topic, if you'd been brave enough to have the talk and tell that person 'no, I want more, and I'm sorry that means we can't hang out because it will be too hard for me' then that avoids all the heartache ahead, and belive you me, there will be heartache, unless some other perosn comes along and sweeps you off your feet. Otherwise eventually you will start resenting and hating them for not wanting you and worst of all, they will have no idea why you've suddenly changed, unaware that you simply cannot stand any longerto be slowly rejected day after day, week after week, month after month - it's really not good for your self-esteem or indeed general happiness and I might add, mental health.

 

So, on that note, go with your gut instincts (going with gut instincts is always good so long as they are not second-guessing your original gut instincts, trying to pretend to yourself that your gut says 'yes' when in fact orignially it said 'no'), but realise that down the line (and I'm far, far down the line) that you may end up sniping, being somewhat nasty to the object of your affection simply because they STILL don't want you in that way -even if you've convinced them, your other friends and even yourself that you no longer want them, deep down you do, deep down there is that hope there or you wouldn't be hanging around them, hanging on, hoping when there is no hope.

 

If you actually really, truly looked at the situation as it is and will always be and realised that things are not ever going to change. Imagine this friend of yours utterly in love and happy with some other person, talking about them all the time, holding hands, discussing marriage in front of you would you still want to hang out with them all the time? No! Because all that hope would be gone, you would see your relationship with them for what it really is, a friendship and nothing more and never will be anything more than that.

 

If that scenario is one you'd be happy with, fine, go ahead, be friends, but I'm guessing for most of us in this situation we're hoping against hope that someday, some change might happen and the friend will one day decide that actually they do want you and of course when you're obsessed and in love with someone else you just simply want to be around them no matter what, but if we realised that that situation is not sustainable and actually forcibly crushed every last little ounce of hope in our hearts then we might see the situation as it is, rather than what we want it to be.

 

We're all in imaginary relationships, like in the movies mentioned above, the plotline being that the other person suddenly realises that what they wanted was right there in front of them all that time and BINGO! Love blossoms. Doesn't work that way...or at least it doesn't while they think that they could have you any time they want, that you're some kind of lap-dog, hanging on their every word, loving them even if they don't love you back, thinking that you're happy with friendship when you're not. When you initiate NC either they disappear from your life or begin to miss you and respect the fact that you have some self-respect for yourself instead of being some kind of sad love-sick puppy (and let's face it, that's hardly sexy now is it?)

 

Ultimately these relationships are a kind of power play, maybe not a conscious one, but a power play nonetheless. Both people state what they want, one says 'I want only friendship' the other says 'I want more than friendship'. The person wanting more gives up any power and self-respect by bowing down to the wishes of the person wanting only friendship and it is a strain to pretend always that your feelings for them are purely on a friends level. It's a strain to try to meet other people when no one matches up to the person that you are in love with, who you see and talk to all the time.

 

Utimately by agreeing to be friends you've just given away all the power to be happy, to feel loved to a person who cannot, for whatever reason, give you what you want, which ultimately only leaves you feeling like a total loser, like a total worthless piece of junk to be picked up and abandoned at will while they decide who they want to date and what they want. We are the ones who know what we want, are descisive to some degree, we want that other person. But they don't want us, so why should anyone allow their heart to be battered about by someone who can't make their mind up? Our only fault is not following through on being decisive. We know what we want, we go for it, we don't get it, instead of sticking to our guns and thinking 'right, all or nothing' by agreeing to friendship when we want more, we turn into powerless wimps.

 

Sorry for the long post...and the bitterness, but I am at that 'I hate you because you won't love me' stage and due to my particular circumstances it is impossible for me to do the NC thing, which means I somehow have to deal with seeing this person every bloody day which makes it much harder for me to move on and get over them and not be reminded over and over that they don't want me. NC would be wonderful right now, if it were only possible. Don't dismiss it out of hand.

 

I think this post is probably the best I've ever read on this board. The scenario laid out in it is 100% accurate. I decided to go with the NC route in my situation. Of course, we eventually saw eachother, and she nearly cried to me that she wanted me in her life again. We tried it, but I never wanted it. And it did indeed cause me to be less friendly towards her, and her less friendly towards me as a result. It ultimately ended in a stupid fight, which hopefully will be our last contact. It is painful to hope for such an ending, but I tried to end it nicely. It wasn't my aim for it to end as it has. But still, it is better to end now than later. It's not a good situation, but none of these situations are. But it is funny how things do work out for you when you do what you think is right... an ex of mine who I loved, and she loves me... is moving back home from another state, and we are talking again. We broke up because of this move, and it ended on a good note. So, had this situation not panned out as it did, I'd have to reject my ex, and that is something that I dont want to do... and I'm glad that now I don't have to.

[WTRanger]

Paddington Bear, I think your post is very well thought out. I think you've pretty much hit most of the major issues in dealing with this. I think amongst the people posting here, we are all in various stages our situations. And believe me, there are many stages involved. Almost like the 7 stages of grief. In fact, exactly like the 7 stages of grief as defined in the Kubler-Ross cycle. Those are shock, denial, anger, bargening, depression, testing, and finally acceptance.

 

I myself have been bouncing in and out of the anger phase. There have been many times where I wanted to call this person and just tell them that they are the worst person I've ever met. I didn't do that as it wouldn't solve anything. It'd be fun, but in the end I'd feel like a tool.

 

However, all of our situations are different and only we and the other person involved know exactly what to do. My case is different as I'm moving away so it really doesn't matter what happens, the distance will happen no matter what. I'll be forced to move on, becuase I'd be stupid to wait around several thousand miles away from her. Hoping that she comes around. That'll never happen, I know it. I am realizing that this friendship has been rather lopsided, when I finally sat down to think about it. I got really mad when I made a list. Yes, it pisses me off to think that I put so much effort into it and really, I got nothing in return except heart ache and a deep feeling worthlessness and lonlieness.

 

Now, if I were to be staying in the area, then yes I would be at the ultimatium stage. I think after a few months, if she hasn't made her mind up by now she never will. So just give me an answer and let's be done with it. Would I trash the friendship? No, not really if I could help it. I would advise us to go our seperate ways, at least for me so I can continue to let my feelings cool off. The litmus test would be if she or I could see the other person with a new boyfriend/girlfriend and if the feelings of anger and jealousy return then it's time to once again put some distance between ourselves.

 

It's a very hard situation for sure. But as we all agree, you have to go with your gut. If your gut tells you to end it, then end it. If your gut tells you to wait a bit, then wait. But eventually your gut should tell you to move on if no progress has been made.

[vanilla87]

Yes I remember that scene so well! And I certainly know how Peyton felt that whole time. Sigh, one longs for a moment like that.

 

It happened on "My Boys" last week, where the girl was obsessing for months over the guy who was getting married, and he called it off and she FINALLY told him how she felt and he was all "me too." And I'm sitting there goin,' "That's what was supposed to happen!" LOL

 

haha bobby and pj are awesome together! love that show!

[vanilla87]

I think I'm one of the few on this thread that have already dealt with the friend that was in a relationship, never saw them together, but I have seen pictures of the two of 'em when they were together and it kind of jolted my heart a little, but it didn't phase me because I knew how she was. I met her the year before, but sort of got this vibe that she wasn't all that "nice" about a few things, sort of had this attitude that was under the radar, but only came out when she was not happy, which it did happen.

 

Anyway, he was the kind of guy friend that would rarely, if ever talk about his relationships or even mention them to me. I've learned over time, no guy will tell you if they are dating or about their relationship details, if he thinks there is a possiblity to either sleep with a girl or date her, which was a big tip off to me since I was 15 when it came to guys in my life. I'm not worried and trust my gut instincts 100% because they are not wrong when it comes to guys, unless I'm very upset or too vulnerable, but thats usually rare for me.

 

I think its anyone prerogative if you choose no contact, some people can't bottle up as well as others, see the big picture for what it is and what not. I see the big picture, but I also know I'm not ready for a full on fledge relationship, so thats one reason why I'm not all bothered by this. I've also been keeping distance from my friend, which is normal, I do this from time to time over the last 6-7 years and he does the same, but we're both busy and I'm dealing with emotional issues of a pervious ex bf and he is dealing with the pain of his recent ex, so we're both screwed up in the head to even attempt anything beyond friendship.

 

I also know that i was friends with him long before I got to where I am with him and it reminds me that no matter what, I'm always going to be friends with him because i can put my pride aside, be selfless, and deal with not letting my feelings get in the way, keep in no-strings attached, even though I've slept with him twice, we still don't let that be an issued for our friendship, where as most of you, if that happened, would probably be frustrated, exhausted by the emotional turmoil inside, and would end up doing no-contact because you couldn't handle it.

 

Maybe its my ability to put myself in someone else's shoes and also detach my emotions from the main issue and keep it at bay, or maybe I just can tell that even after I've moved on from him those two other times and had guys giving me attention or I mention a guy in my life I'm involved with he gets jealous or maybe its that everytime after a girl he breaks up with or has problems with or is too lonely, he somehow always comes looking for me, either way, I just know deep down and my gut keeps telling me what I've always know since i was 15, that its always going to be there, no matter what I do...

[somedude81]

Lots of sad stories in this thread. I haven't seen a single example where a guy was able to get the girl after having "the talk."

 

I have avoided posting in this thread because I don't think my story is over yet but it probably is. I was planning on talking to her today at work, but my boss didn't come in so I wasn't able to see her today.

 

Here is my "talk" story.

 

I was friends with a girl for several months. During that time we hung out 1-2 times a week, every week for 4 months, we've known each other for 7 months since we started working together. A few months into our hangouts I completely fell for her.

 

I was slowly getting more and more comfortable with her and I was probably about 2-3 more hangouts away from making a real move on her. The last time we hung out was a party at my house which was the best opportunity I ever had to try something with her but I chickened out. I never got another opportunity with her again.

 

A couple of days later I found out that she had sex with some dude the day after I was with her. Later that night we had a text conversation where I told her that I liked her and all that. She only saw me as a friend etc. A couple of days later we had "the talk" in person. All of our feelings were expressed. I told her that I can't be with her anymore cause it hurts me, she was emotional but understood. I gave her a nice hug and left. I was at peace. But I didn't give up.

 

A few days later I notice that she lists herself as single on Facebook. I thought that she broke up with that dude but it turns out that I was wrong. She tells me that even though she had sex with him, they are still cool but not together. We then have another text conversation spanning a couple of hours. As time goes by I get more and more pissed off. I should have just turned off my phone, but rational thought was not possible. By the end I was very angry and wanted her to be mad too so I started saying mean things to her about sex and our friendship. I accomplished my goal of getting her mad and I absolutely destroyed our friendship in the process.

 

In the only fight we've ever had I went from one of her best-friends to a guy she can't stand. And it was all over sex.

 

I sent her a message every couple of days and she just wouldn't reply. Finally she replied and told me to leave her alone. A few days after that I ran into her at work and I was able to apologize to her. This was 8 days after our fight. I made a thread about it.

 

Here is part of the post I made.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t183218/

 

Today I did apologize to her in person. I could tell that she was still mad even a week later after the fight. Since I was extremely nervous and my feelings were going crazy I actually don't remember most of what she said.

 

Some key things I do remember that she said; doesn't hate me but she dislikes me, can't believe that the things said came from me, thinks I'm not a good person for her life, will never see me the same way again, and can't be friends anymore.

Since then I've had no contact with her. Three weeks of no contact and I've been thinking about her every single day whenever my mind isn't focused on something else.

 

The week after I apologized I'm certain she was at work but I wasn't ready to see her yet so I didn't make sure. The week after that was spring break so there was no work. This week (today) I didn't have work.

 

I REALLY wanted to see her today. I don't know why though. I feel different than I did before. It's almost like I'm ready to give it another shot with her and try a different approach. Running into her at work would be so natural. I could drop by when she's working tomorrow night before I go to my Salsa club meeting but if I do that, both of us know that I'm only there to see her since I don't work that day. The fact that she's the only person working that shift means I can't have an excuse why I'm there besides seeing her. But when we work on the same day, I'm not there to see her, I'm there to work, running into her is just a bonus.

 

I guess it all depends on what time the bus drops me off. If I don't see her tomorrow I'm going to have to wait till next Tuesday for a chance at seeing her.

 

BTW I know that the best way to get over her would be to get a different girl. I am going after other girls but I haven't hung out with any of them yet. I'm certain that if I at least kiss somebody else I'll be able to get over her.

[vanilla87]

Hmm she told you she dislikes you, that your not good for her life that she has, and that she wants you to leave her alone? well then leave her alone, lol, I mean any girl that says that with a serious tone means it and there is no hope of it ever changing.

 

I mean if she pissed you off and said what you said to her, you would probably be pissed off too. So leave her alone for a good long time. Take it from a female, she probably is focusing on other guys, especially since you won't leave her alone. Best bet is if you don't she will either think your now trying to stalk her or she might get a few trust worth guy friends to keep an eye out around her and to keep you away from her if you try seeing her when she is alone.

 

Also take the hint, the fact that she didn't answer your emails is a huge red flag that she doesn't care about you anymore the same way before the fight...

 

No girl wants a guy in her life that stripes her down to nothing in a verbal fight, she usually wants him gone and away because he made her feel worthless on some level. Thats the quickest way to get rid of a girl from your life, especially if you get jealous and point out the exact thing, even if it is sex, which is the worst thing to point out next to her body image. Thats like telling a girl she looks fat its right there on the same page when you can't stand a guy she sleeps with, its annoying and disrespectful to make a fuss about it unless she brings it up. That be like if she got mad about every girl you ever slept with, you probably get annoyed at her for that.

 

Anyway, i think the next time, count to 10 in your head before you say something you will regret or walk away, because it'll happen again if you don't think before you speak...

[The Collector]

I REALLY wanted to see her today. I don't know why though. I feel different than I did before. It's almost like I'm ready to give it another shot with her and try a different approach. Running into her at work would be so natural. I could drop by when she's working tomorrow night before I go to my Salsa club meeting but if I do that, both of us know that I'm only there to see her since I don't work that day. The fact that she's the only person working that shift means I can't have an excuse why I'm there besides seeing her. But when we work on the same day, I'm not there to see her, I'm there to work, running into her is just a bonus.

 

I guess it all depends on what time the bus drops me off. If I don't see her tomorrow I'm going to have to wait till next Tuesday for a chance at seeing her.

 

Things a stalker might say? Leave her alone as she requested. There is no other approach that will work. She was never interested in you sexually, or if she was you blew it by being friends early on. Move on to someone else, and this time don't go in via the friend route, it doesn't work.