Lessons from an OW

[Lizzie60]

Lizzie,

 

Just want to say I love your avatars. They always show how provocative a woman can look WITH clothes on.

 

Ok, off topic..I know.

 

 

Thank you.. I choose avatars that represent who I am..

[taylor]

Taylor -

 

I wrote this post when I first started at LS, please check it out:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1782626&highlight=corvette#post1782626

 

2Sure,

 

Thank you so much for citing this post above and for the posts you have made to this current thread.

 

I read all that you wrote yesterday and had to take a day to digest it.

 

All of it hit so close to home..so close to the heart...that I had to take a time-out to take it all in.

 

I had a good cry yesterday and spent the rest of the day cleaning my house to keep myself from shaking and to rid myself of angry feelings that were welling up inside.

 

It's scary to think two people can reach a point where they are so vulnerable they have to create a fantasy to cope with what they are facing in their lives.

 

Yes, my OM created a fantasy and he and I were the main characters.

 

He was the downtrodden man, misunderstood by all, hard times and hard breaks all his life. He hated his life and blamed it on everyone and everthing but himself.

 

I was HIS knight in shining armor...soothing every hurt, every wrong that had been done to him in the past 30 years. I stroked his ego, making him feel so good about himself...made him believe in himself again..despite what the "world" was telling him about himself. I was his cheerleader, complete with megaphone and pom-poms. I wan't going to let him down like everyone else had. He was counting on it.

 

At one point he even said, "I never want to lose you. If you jump, I jump too."

 

Not only was I the cheerleader, I was also the sedative that eased his pain. He told me I put a smile on his face, even when he didn't want one. And I "got" him, like no one else did.

 

But he was also my knight in shining armor. He didn't resolve my marital issues. In fact he knew nothing of my husband or my marital problems. We never discussed them.

 

But what he did, by being the needy person he was, was give me a way to feel needed. By doing for him, I felt like I was doing something important, something that mattered. It made me feel like I did matter to someone and made me feel appreciated.

 

The sexual stuff came later and of course added to the "value" of the relationship. I made him feel like a MAN, something his exes took away from him....and he made me feel like a WOMAN...something I wasn't feeling at home.

 

I called our relationship "the perfect storm" because it established a fantasy that fed off of itself.

 

At one point it started to spill over into real life...he wanted to know if I would like to do some things with him and his kids...and he expressed interest in going to lunch or to the movies together.

 

I started to feel a little uncomfortable because the fantasy started to grow outside its neat little box.

 

Almost immediately after we expressed feelings for each other and a desire to cross the line physically, the fantasy began to unravel..it got too real..it was no longer safe. My marriage, my committment, my husband...all came front and center for both me and the OM.

 

And the fantasy bubble burst. But not until my heart became way more involved then what it should have.

 

We used each other. And I will never know if he was hurt by the experience or not.

 

But it hurt me terribly.

 

It still hurts from time to time to think that he may have only been interested in getting sex...and set out to groom me for that by getting me to fall for him while he stayed emotionally distant. He did succeed in getting me to fall, but he never got the sex. Thank God. Getting my heart involved was bad enough. Getting my other body parts involved would have been total destruction.

 

To this day I believe I was more hurt by the experience than he was because I let my heart get involved. Why do we women do this????

 

It seems like we make ourselves sexually attractive to a man to win their hearts and they make themselves emotionally available to get sex.

 

In the end we get hurt the most because it takes a lot longer and it's alot harder to withdraw your heart from a relationship than to withdraw a penis.

 

Thanks for letting me vent here on your thread.

 

Having some bad days this past week because it's been one year of NC and I am having to admit to myself that the healing process is not over yet... there is still some residual pain from this experience.

[wildsoul]

It seems like we make ourselves sexually attractive to a man to win their hearts and they make themselves emotionally available to get sex.

 

In the end we get hurt the most because it takes a lot longer and it's alot harder to withdraw your heart from a relationship than to withdraw a penis.

 

Thanks for letting me vent here on your thread.

That's one of the wisest and nicely written "vents" I've read lately. Thank you for adding your thoughts.

[2sure]

Taylor - you have made true points that in 4 years of looking at my own experience - I never considered.

 

Still - you know, for many affair partners, men & women, sex is not the largest part of the affair. Some affairs start with it, some culminate with it. Your MM sounds as emotionally involved as yourself.

 

I thought I knew men inside out. From reading here on LS - I have been astounded & pleased to learn that many men , if not all, have the same emotional desires as women -

- its just that sometimes they mistake the emotional desire as horny.

 

lol. And I mean this.

[2sure]

And Taylor - I thought a lot about this thread last night.

 

I think a part of my marriages recovery from infidelity is that I really want to take something from this awful experience, I want to personally learn from it..and I have.

 

I love my husband, I love my marriage...the infidelity was awful. I KNOW I cant make it a positive exactly - but I feel that by making it a learning experience...like everything else...

 

I dont know, it doesnt hurt as much.

[taylor]

Taylor - you have made true points that in 4 years of looking at my own experience - I never considered.

 

Still - you know, for many affair partners, men & women, sex is not the largest part of the affair. Some affairs start with it, some culminate with it. Your MM sounds as emotionally involved as yourself.

 

I know for me the connection was the most important part.

 

I also missed not being able to care for him..to be involved in his life. I let this man become important to me and I didn't want to lose him from my life.

 

Yes, there was a sexual attraction, but for 7 months I succeeded in not giving in to those feelings.

 

Throughout the entire affair I believed this man was emotionally involved. But when I looked back on it I realized I was the one who did all the giving and he was the one doing all the taking.

 

I posted here a year ago, telling the good people of LS that my affair ended when the OM took another job and we became separated. That wasn't the truth. The truth is I lost my job because of this affair. And within two weeks I lost my father.

 

Losing the OM, losing my job, losing my father, and D-Day all occurred within the same two week span of time. It was the lowest period of my life. Do you think the OM was there for me? It was like he fell off the face of the earth. His silence cut like a knife. I was there for him but when I needed him the most, he was nowhere in sight.

 

I waited for the phone call that said, "I'm sorry about what happened at work. I know I am partly responsible for you losing your job. Are you OK?"

 

I waited for the phone call that said, "I miss you and wish you well."

 

I waited for the phone call that said, "I'm sorry you lost your father. Are you OK?"

 

I waited for the phone call that said, "I'm sorry for letting things get out of hand, but glad you came into my life, nonetheless."

 

Instead, I got silence. That silence was the deepest cut of all.

[taylor]

And Taylor - I thought a lot about this thread last night.

 

I think a part of my marriages recovery from infidelity is that I really want to take something from this awful experience, I want to personally learn from it..and I have.

 

I love my husband, I love my marriage...the infidelity was awful. I KNOW I cant make it a positive exactly - but I feel that by making it a learning experience...like everything else...

 

I dont know, it doesnt hurt as much.

 

2Sure,

 

My therapist and I talked about this very thing last week.

 

I told her I was dealing with anger, mainly at myself.

 

She told me to take something positive from the affair..use it as a learning experience.

 

I'm trying as well.

 

thank you again for everything. you really helped me get thru a difficult week.

[taylor]

That's one of the wisest and nicely written "vents" I've read lately. Thank you for adding your thoughts.

 

Thanks for the kind words, wildsoul.

 

BTW, I like your avatar, too. Every time I see it it reminds me of one of my favorite songs, "Angels Among Us" by Alabama. Love the lyrics.

[blueintheface]

2sure

*Men do not like sarcasm.

 

well ****e.

 

 

2sure

 

I said to someone here very recently that I certainly do have remorse for the things I have done (being OW) and sadness of course over my own H's infidelity...

 

But you know, I cannot help but think that both of those experiences have taught me and that without either of them....I would not be the person I am right now.

 

And, I do believe I am a better person today than I was before I was OW AND before I was cheated on.

 

Sure, I wish my H had not done it.

But , I just cannot have regret.

 

I rightously insist on personal growth.

 

I have never cheated and previously in my life B.L. (before loveshack), i would have been at the head of the line tooting on my better than thou horn (silently of course since i was an open-minded type of person xD). i've actually had a lot of personal growth through your experiences, 2sure, as well as others. so i guess not all people need to learn up close & personal so i would like to say i am grateful for your experiences too. that and following dexter around the forum helps me think more clearly. sometimes i get caught in the whole OW/M justifications which i know are wrong but can't argue why - the man clears the bull like no other.

[Dexter Morgan]

that and following dexter around the forum helps me think more clearly.

 

WOOHOO!! A groupie!!!

[boldjack]

2, I'm not too sure. I know, terrible:) If I'm reading your posts correctly, you

re saying that your affairs and your H's affair, you look upon as learning experiences. It seems that your learning has caused a lot of pain for other people that you don't even know. Will this "learning", make you more reluctant to enter into affairs? Will this learning make you more remorseful towards those women whom you helped betray? Are you willing to translate this learning into honesty with these MW's.? Maybe, it will make it easier for you to cheat in the future. Oh,well, It's not a sleazy betrayal, it's just another learning experience. Until I faced those I cheated on and came clean, I couldn't have a trusting relationship of my own. Sometimes I think that you rationalize, in order to avoid facing your demons.

[2sure]

Good questions, but Im not sure you know my story.

I never cheated on anyone. I WAS an OW, so in that sense I was a particpant in someone elses betrayal of their marriage.

 

At the time, I had the perspective that many OW have -

I was single, if your husband wanted to cheat, it was not my problem and that if it wasnt me it would be someone else.

 

All wrong, in everyway.

 

When I married my H (or previous H for that matter) I proved myself faithful and loyal.

 

When the love of my life (current H) cheated on me - I got a whole new perspective obviously. Part of me still feels that it was Karma paying me back.

[boldjack]

2. I understand that you were the OW, the same as I was the OM. But this doesn't lessen our responsibility to make good decisions regarding our bed-partners. With me , I simply didn't care. To be honest I relished the challenge of taking a man's wife from him. What a piece of sh*t I was. Young, arrogant, and ruthless. I never understood the role self-esteem played in Affairs . I treated women like sl*ts, made them do the most degrading things, and they ALWAYS came back for more. My bout with Karma came when a woman I REALLY loved rejected me BECAUSE of my past. That hit home in a way nothing else could have. I know that if my current wife was ever unfaithful, a part of me would feel the same as you. That paybacks are hell. Thank God she is wise as well as beautiful. So, I've learned MY lessons well, always honest, no cheating. I hope that in your next relationship, or in your present one, that you will have the same good fortune. Having read your other posts, I think that you are a better person than even you realize. Jack

[2sure]

I've tossed around a thought I've found interesting but havent shared...and it is possible that for ME , it was the BIG lesson...

 

Everyone has heard of or had experience with the idea that in life you keep making the same mistakes until you learn your lesson, and that every person we have a relationship with has something to teach us....

 

For example: A woman has a history of dating verbally abusive men. She says she cant seem to find a good relationship, etc. Until she learns that is worth more than that- she is destined to continue to make the same mistakes...

 

Given my own previous history of dating married men without having learned a damn thing really except that I was lonely in a crowd...

I have wondered if my comfort level with infidelity could have eventually tempted me to cheat on my husband.

 

When he cheated on me , it was as though my life, my vision, had a complete turn around. I got it.

 

So, not like I'm taking it on but...his infidelity taught me something huge that I think I was meant to learn.

[OWoman]

Prepare to bleed.

 

Even if you had a great sense of self worth beforehand, it will be no time at all before that will become a fading memory.

 

Why is that?

 

Some people would say it's because you're screwed up to begin with. Possibly. I can't say. All I can say is being in the shadows makes you become a shadow...

 

 

 

* Ironically enough, the longer you are willing to settle for less (because god forbid you are anything like their true partner and demand to get your needs met too), the easier it becomes to be taken for granted. You teach people how to treat you.

 

* You don't get supported, cared for...anything at all. Instead you get taken from. Again and again and again.

 

* By participating in it, you become tainted in their eyes. Unfair and odd that should happen, but I've heard of this happening.

 

* You "blow your wad" so to speak. Most of the time the timing of these things is way off. It's hard to put into words, but most of the time (not all!), these things happen at the wrong time. Meaning - it might've "worked" had he really been ready to become yours out in the open...but he wasn't quite as ready as you may have been led to believe (if he ever was)...therefore, by the time he does get out...you will be associated with a crappy time in his life, and he may very likely be tired of you by then, too!

 

* Every time he goes home, you will be reminded that he isn't yours.

 

* Every time something good happens, you will be reminded that he's really at home and you can't share that. Because you are not a priority.

 

* Every time you need help, or are down you will be reminded that he can't help you...he is in a "situation".

 

 

 

 

Sometimes it does works out, but I wouldn't bet on it. AT ALL.

I think even some of the people who ended up in the circumstances they wished to be in can attest to that.

 

Wow! This sounds truly horrible! I'm really sorry you had such a traumatic time of it.

 

My experience was quite the opposite, it was completely empowering and affirming to have so much control, so much power, so much support and goodwill from so many people, and to be such a priority to someone. But I guess what you get depends on what you want, what you demand and what you negotate upfront. If you're prepared to settle for scraps, that's likely all you'll be offered, but if you're the one with the menu in your hands, things are rather different.

 

Perhaps there should be a handbook for new OWs, with guidelines on how to negotiate a good agreement of terms, and warnings, like Bluebird's, of what they might expect if they don't. It's really sad to read stories on here of OW having to settle for what they asked for - ie, nothing...

[KismetGirl]

Wow! This sounds truly horrible! I'm really sorry you had such a traumatic time of it.

 

My experience was quite the opposite, it was completely empowering and affirming to have so much control, so much power, so much support and goodwill from so many people, and to be such a priority to someone. But I guess what you get depends on what you want, what you demand and what you negotate upfront. If you're prepared to settle for scraps, that's likely all you'll be offered, but if you're the one with the menu in your hands, things are rather different.

 

Perhaps there should be a handbook for new OWs, with guidelines on how to negotiate a good agreement of terms, and warnings, like Bluebird's, of what they might expect if they don't. It's really sad to read stories on here of OW having to settle for what they asked for - ie, nothing...

 

OWoman....your story is far over in the minority in OW land. Most men don't have abusive, horrid wives that everyone else hates and is wishing he'd get rid of. Most MM's probably have pretty normal wives, pretty normal relatioships, and are just midly discontent with their marriages. I think yours was probably a pretty special circumstance. Sadly most OW's end up....well....like me. Most get sick of far sooner than four years probably! But I digress, they don't end up happily every after with MM like you did most of the time. You are a lucky woman.

[OWoman]

OWoman....your story is far over in the minority in OW land. Most men don't have abusive, horrid wives that everyone else hates and is wishing he'd get rid of. Most MM's probably have pretty normal wives, pretty normal relatioships, and are just midly discontent with their marriages. I think yours was probably a pretty special circumstance. Sadly most OW's end up....well....like me. Most get sick of far sooner than four years probably! But I digress, they don't end up happily every after with MM like you did most of the time. You are a lucky woman.

 

There are a few others here who've landed up with their MMs - in situations far less extreme than mine. And, aside from my H, there have been other MMs that I've had As with who've left - MMs who've had (or at least claimed to have) happy Ms, who've loved their Ws and who've not been on the lookout for an A at all. MMs who, once in the A, have found a point of comparison and realised that perhaps their M - or any M - was not what they wanted, and have left - despite not having a "soft landing" of an OW waiting for them (since I made it clear that that wasn't what I wanted, upfront - they knew they'd be dumped if they wanted to make it full-time with me). Others stayed with their Ws but still prioritised the A and stuck to the agreed rules of engagement. I have had several As, because I found that type of R to be the most empowering and most affirming and closest to what I wanted and was prepared to invest (at the time).

 

It's a very different scenario to the one Bluebird describes, and I think that the difference is not that I "got lucky" each time (how many times can a woman get lucky?) but that I set out from the start very clearly what it was that I wanted - and expected - and what I was prepared to invest in return. I made the MMs consider the "what ifs" of their Ws finding out, of them falling in love, of the logistics of the A clashing with family life demands, and all sorts of scenarios, so that they could make an informed decision about whether the A really was something they wanted to embark on. They knew, upfront, what they were getting into and they knew what the consequences could be for them. They chose, nonetheless, to engage in the A, to prioritise it and to accept any consequences - and to abide by its rules. They knew what was expected of them, and they were happy to agree to that. In fact, many commented on how welcome it was to have it all upfront rather than subtle hints and nudges and assumptions and - later - manipulation and tantrums. They appreciated the directness, of knowing where they stood, and what the rules were. It was not how most of their Rs - including their M - had been conducted.

 

If you as a precursor to embarking on an A with a MM, you state upfront "this is what I expect" and he agrees, either he will deliver - and the A will go ahead, on agreed terms - or he won't, and the agreement will be voided and the A will cease. (Unless of course you renegotiate new terms which he can - or is prepared to - meet, provided that those are agreeable to you to and not simply a compromise because you feel anything with him is better than nothing!) There's no luck in that. It's like any other agreement one enters into - I take my car to the garage, I tell them what I want done. They tell me whether they can do it, if they can do it to the schedule I want and - if so - what it will cost me. We agree, I leave my car, they deliver the service and I pay them. If they don't deliver the service to spec, I don't pay them / pay them less / take my car elsewhere. No one considers it "lucky" if the garage actually does what you contract them to do. Why should it be "lucky" if a relationship sticks to an agreement?

[boldjack]

O, I'm impressed with your style, but rather dubious about your delivery. If affairs could be managed like small businesses, I guess that marriages could be too, therefore there would be no affairs. It's too bad that pesky things like morals and emotions have to be involved, probably slows down the process.

[jj33]

OWoman I agree with you entirely. Its a question of what you want and not letting your heart trample you. I think most people married and single get into affairs not knowing what they expect to happen. Then if feelings develop they stay like a deer in the headlights not wanting to leave but not always entirely happy with being in it each for their own reasons.

 

I was in an affair many many years ago - the only other one I was in and the man offered to leave his wife for me. It wasnt what I wanted at the time and I would have been his 3rd wife and he wasnt even 40 yet, so I didnt think he was a good bet for the long run.

 

But I think the fact that everything was out in the open the whole time and I knew what I wanted there was no manipulation etc etc made a big difference.

[jj33]

The other thing I learned but this was more after it was over and I dont think its unique to my situation is that there is a huge need for validation not only sexually but emotoinally.

 

1. Much as OWs post after the fact does he think of me does he miss me etc etc that there is a huge need to feel loved in addition to the usual flattery and attention.

 

2. Even after the fact it still matters. And in some cases they still want to believe that the flame still burns (tedious or sweet depending on how far youve moved on).

 

3. They want to be seen as good guys.

 

Anyone who thinks its always just about sex is kidding themselves. Even if its just about sex for the OP, its often more than that for the person whos risking their marriage.

[Trialbyfire]

What I learned from the OW in the affair situation that my ex-H got involved with, is that I wouldn't want to be her and through freedom of choice, have never and will never be like her!!

[2sure]

My experience was quite the opposite, it was completely empowering and affirming to have so much control, so much power, so much support and goodwill from so many people, and to be such a priority to someone. But I guess what you get depends on what you want, what you demand and what you negotate upfront. If you're prepared to settle for scraps, that's likely all you'll be offered, but if you're the one with the menu in your hands, things are rather different.

 

I know I am included in part of the minority with OW in that my experiences with MMen...did teach me to be in control , confident, and empowered. It changed me in a good way, which I then took and applied to REAL life when I left affairs like that behind.

 

But it didnt happen all at once. It was a cultivated thing. Like OW said - what you get depends on what you want. In my affairs with MM I was looking for some affection & friendship sure...but for the most part I eventually chose them for what they could do for ME.

 

Now I know how that sounds and you're right. But as wrong as that may have been, I was at least being realistic in my expectations.

[2sure]

1. Much as OWs post after the fact does he think of me does he miss me etc etc that there is a huge need to feel loved in addition to the usual flattery and attention.

 

2. Even after the fact it still matters. And in some cases they still want to believe that the flame still burns (tedious or sweet depending on how far youve moved on).

 

3. They want to be seen as good guys.

 

Anyone who thinks its always just about sex is kidding themselves. Even if its just about sex for the OP, its often more than that for the person who's risking their marriage.

 

 

I had to quote the whole post because I think this is a big lesson for both OW and for BS. In my experience - the sex is completely secondary. The MM (can only speak from my own view) may think its sex they are looking for...but more often than not it is the pillow talk , the phone calls, etc. that they enjoy more.

 

And again - its mostly just listening to them talk about themselves or listening to some version of a fantasy they have in their head about YOU. But even that is still about them.

 

Validation. The men I knew were very successful, had wonderful wives and families, were probably at mid life crisis, ...they weren't lacking anything except they wanted more validation than most people.

[jj33]

Its honest and very realistic. Look if they are "open for business" with a limited amount to offer, its a two way street...

 

In retrospect I have to agree with you about the empowerment. It did empower me when I was in it, then I was out of it and for a really long time, I lost that confidence, but now when I look back on it, I can see that I that again.

 

Thats a really good thing to take away. I never would have thought someone like xMM would have been interested in me at this point in my life so it is good to remember with single men.

[2sure]

Sometimes I still dont know if I really am attractive & smart OR just started to believe that I was because MM said it.

 

The important thing is that once I started believing it, I havent stopped. In fact, lol....

 

The MMen I saw built me up so much...that eventually I realized I was too good for them. LOL.