Why should I still care? What a mess.

[BW007]

I have let her get to me again. This has been the worst two weeks I have ever had relationship-wise and I need some better advice than, "go out and find someone new" or "There are more fish in the sea"

Here is the deal, We lived together for almost 5 years, and generally maintained a pretty good healthy level of honesty and faithfulness. About 6 months ago things got weird and I moved out, we broke up and yet I did not give up and we reconciled and I tried to reassure her that I did not take her for granted and really thought she was the one. Space, distance, time, I thought we were making progress and we started "dating" again and started to rebuild things.We have been back with each other for at least 4 months trying to work things out....so I thought....My car broke down and I stopped over early one morning at our old apartment. And just like on some melodramatic bad TV show or movie, I caught her literally in bed with this guy who has been sniping at our relationship from the sidelines since the beginning but had always been shot down. All hell broke loose. I yelled at her and was very upset and left. She ended up sending him packing( He lives 200 miles away, he is her best friends brother)and actually, I think he dumped her after realizing she was 2 timing(actually 3 timing,,,but wait for the rest of the story)him as well.We argued the rest of the day, and I ended up talking to her face to face again and she begged me to come back and that she really loved me and that she was being evil and out of control...So my stupid heart opened a little bit and tried to be big enough to try to forgive her.We talked it over and over and spent the next week trying to repair the damage until the conversation was annoying to both of us.I tried to establish the root of the problem and blah, blah, blah....Well, I really tried, because despite all the heartbreak, I do really love her.That makes me a doormat afraid of losing her I guess....so anyhow I spent the next week in internal turmoil, and trying to salvage things,. I felt some distance again, and went to her house again and we talked about it and I spent the night. We planned to go to the movies and chill out the next night as well. She went off to work and came home and then we were together that night. My alarm bells were going off and I looked at her text messages (crappy to do I know, but my radar was freaking out)to see if she had been contacting the other guy, only to find her texting "keymaster" "I love ur sexyness" and assorted other gems, THAT DAY. The **** hit the fan....More crying and "I am so messed up" etc....I called guy number THREE back and confronted him about what he was doing with my supposed GF during a rocky time. He said he thought I was "out of the picture" and that would be the last time, blah blah blah.So the argument continues with my girlfriend. She says "You can never trust me again. I am so messed up. I need to figure myself out by myself."

Yeah sure. I am such a fool that I still want to try to repair the damage and not give up.

This has really devastated my self esteem and sent me into a real depression where I literally did not get out of the house for days. I feel like such an unwanted piece of litter

What is with my endless trying not to give up?doormat?hopeless romantic? pathetic and oblivious loser. I mean, I should be like "get out of my life" but the truth is I would work towards fixing this if I could. Denial? No I know exactly how messed up this is. This has been really destructive and I cannot seem to move on from someone that cannot have a respectful relationship with real love . Help me out because this is a terrible place to be. Thanks for giving me a place to spew all this toxicity

[ForumFool]

Go to therapy....you need tio build up some self esteem..I am sorry for your pain but better to find this out now...than to marry her have kids and find her getting the bone from more men

[lostsunsets]

She did you a favor, showing just what a skanky tramp she was. You should thank her, really thank her for letting you know how cheap she was b4 you asked her to marry you.

[BW007]

Yeah I know. It's been a five year relationship and I have not got the vindictiveness going well enough.. In my position that is the healthy response. I have been slowly moving towards it but I am not there yet.

[Beautiful Inside]

i cant believe your in this horrible situation at least you can walk away from this chapter of your life knowing that you gave it your all 100% and she will have to live with this regret forever. her loss and just remember once a cheater always a cheater! its better that you just let her go and know that you will find someone who actually will sincerely love you.

[ForumFool]

Self esteem does not equal vindictiveness . No need to be vindictive...just work on YOU and move away from all this conflict drama and pain....you need help to do that right now.

[BW007]

I think you are right and I have begun to make small steps in that direction. I guess vindictiveness is the wrong word, but I do need a bit more righteous anger instead of the anger turning inward towards depression. I think it demonstrates a bit more pride and self worth than depression and the counter intuitive desire to repair things. I mean screw her, she is a skank now. Who I thought she was is wrong. It is a drag because that was not always the case. You are right that I need help to do that and I am afraid stuff like this forum is about all the help I am going to get at the moment. Keep talking! I will come back here often when I need some help.

[seibert253]

Therapy for your sanity and medication to control your depression. It's good to be angry, you just need to channel the anger into something positive. Start working out at the gym. Exercise is a great stress reliever. Cut all contact with this skank. Don't call, text, nothing. Do not return her calls, texts, etc. As far as your concerned, she fell off the face of the planet. If she comes by your work, home, etc, tell her to leave or your calling the police.

Yeah it's going to be hard, tough, and your going to feel like sh#t. Even though you love her, you know she's a lying manipulative whore. I know you don't want to act like an ass, but it's time to man up. If you take her back she WILL do it again, then your back at square one. Dormat.

There ARE many other women who will treat you with respect, love, compassion, and honor the man they love. You'll find yours, but man she's not it.

Peace and Good Luck

[mark982]

seiberts right in alot of ways.totally ingore this women,she's bad news someday she's gonna give you something you can't get rid of, like a social disease.

[Dexter Morgan]

I have let her get to me again. This has been the worst two weeks I have ever had relationship-wise and I need some better advice than, "go out and find someone new" or "There are more fish in the sea"

 

sorry, but that IS the better advice.

 

Asking for anything better than that just tells us that you want to hear ANYTHING that will help you justify keeping her for whatever reason.

 

So if you don't want to dump her and find someone better, then simply stay with her and take your lumps as they come. And they WILL come again, I guarantee.

 

 

And just like on some melodramatic bad TV show or movie, I caught her literally in bed with this guy who has been sniping at our relationship from the sidelines since the beginning but had always been shot down. All hell broke loose. I yelled at her and was very upset and left. She ended up sending him packing( He lives 200 miles away, he is her best friends brother)and actually, I think he dumped her after realizing she was 2 timing(actually 3 timing,,,but wait for the rest of the story)him as well.

 

Gee, sounds like a great girl that any man would be lucky to have:rolleyes:

 

 

We argued the rest of the day, and I ended up talking to her face to face again and she begged me to come back and that she really loved me

 

ya, she really loved you...I'm sure this was her exact thoughts when she was riding him.

 

 

Well, I really tried, because despite all the heartbreak, I do really love her.That makes me a doormat afraid of losing her I guess

 

I don't see not being with a cheater as "losing" them. I see it as winning your self respect and getting your life back.

 

 

so anyhow I spent the next week in internal turmoil, and trying to salvage things,. I felt some distance again, and went to her house again and we talked about it and I spent the night. We planned to go to the movies and chill out the next night as well. She went off to work and came home and then we were together that night. My alarm bells were going off and I looked at her text messages (crappy to do I know

 

 

Absolutely not. It is not crappy to want to check a cheater's texts, emails, whatever. She is a cheater and you need answers. You sure as hell aint gonna get them from her. but really you got all the "answers" you needed when you caught her with her legs open to this other guy.

 

but you still want to be with her? Do I really need to give you a "could have had a V8" slap upside the head here??

 

 

So the argument continues with my girlfriend. She says "You can never trust me again. I am so messed up. I need to figure myself out by myself."

 

She is right, you will NEVER trust her again.

 

And I always love hearing the lines like, "I need to find myself"...or "I need to find out who I am"....what the hell does that mean? Nothing. Its meaningless words in an attempt divert the issue in the event of a separation/break-up.

 

 

Yeah sure. I am such a fool that I still want to try to repair the damage and not give up.

 

Thats like not giving up in a basketball game....trying to win the game and the prize for winning is a pile of sh#t in your mouth.

 

So trying to win the basketball game is to you wanting to keep this relationship as the prize of having sh#t in your mouth is to you keeping your gf. In other words, she is a crappy prize....much less a prize at all. You'd do better to let her be some other poor sap's problem.

 

Sometimes "giving up" is the smart play.

 

 

This has really devastated my self esteem and sent me into a real depression where I literally did not get out of the house for days.

 

BOOM! And THIS is the reason you want to keep her. You are desperate. You think you failed as a man because she decides to spread her legs for other guys. You want to keep her to prove you CAN keep her. Trust me, I had those same feelings. Then I woke up.

 

 

I feel like such an unwanted piece of litter

 

no....no....NO!! Just because you happened to be involved with a piece of sh#t excuse for a woman doesn't mean you are unwanted litter.

 

Even George Clooney's woman cheated on him, Brad cheated on Jennifer Aniston....even the most desirable people in the world get cheated on.

 

I dare say women don't want George or men don't want Jennifer.

 

 

 

What is with my endless trying not to give up?doormat?hopeless romantic?

 

Sorry, but doormat, yes....also the fact that you are seeing yourself as a failure because she chose to cheat on you. She has the problem, not you.

 

 

 

pathetic and oblivious loser.

 

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!

 

I've been there, done that. This won't be the last time she cheats on you if you stay with her.

 

I can say with all confidence that you will regret it if you don't get rid of her. She is poison and you WILL be back here telling us of her hurting you again.

 

DUMP HER!!!

[BW007]

WOW. There it is.Harsh as hell but true as hell. Thats what I needed to hear and I just meant I needed advice beyond "There is more fish in the sea"canned response.

Ouch. but thanks

[Owl]

OK...I won't discuss any of the other fish out there...but...

 

I'll still tell you that you'd be majorly foolish to continue to attempt to maintain a relationship with this woman.

 

She's a serial cheater. She's demonstrated repeatedly to you that she's more interested in her own pleasures than she is in having a healthy relationship with you.

 

She's avoided truly accepting responsibility for her actions...instead, she deflects, saying that "there's something wrong with me". She makes it out to be something that she can't control, can't help. That's an attempt to disassociate herself from those choices...and distance herself from accept responsibility for them, and the damage they've done.

 

She's not marriage material. She's not even girlfriend material.

 

You can't "rescue" her from herself.

 

All you can do is free yourself from her before you get sucked down into the same emotional oblivion she's headed into.

 

RUN!!!

[DayDreamer75]

I think what you are going through right now is the denial phase... I mean all these things are happening and your mind is telling you that she's not worth it, that you should be moving on but your heart is telling you that she's better than that and that you've had great moments. You need some time way, alone, so that your heart and your mind catch up. The problem with the feelings is that we usually don't heed to our rational and this is exactly what you should do: think with your head and not with your heart. I am sure that if you were a third person, a friend, just looking at your situation from the outside, you'd be telling your friend (yourself in this case) to get out and run as fast as you can. So, work on yourself, avoid her, until you are able to see clearly and ban her from your life...

[Dexter Morgan]

WOW. There it is.Harsh as hell but true as hell. Thats what I needed to hear and I just meant I needed advice beyond "There is more fish in the sea"canned response.

Ouch. but thanks

 

Sure its harsh. thats how I am.

 

but trust me bud, I am on your side with this. Been there done that, and I know of all the emotions that you are feeling.

 

i am speaking from the standpoint of a man that stopped feeling sorry for himself, stood up, brushed himself off and started thinking clearly after being betrayed.

 

Right now you are hurt and feeling pretty desperate. I was too. But I can tell you, if you don't ditch her, you WILL regret it in the long run.

 

good luck my man.

[jmargel]

Been awhile since I posted on here, but just came to visit and thought I could maybe help you. As you can see from my post count I've been a member here for years and from also my past experience of being cheated on I know what you are feeling and to try to steer you on the right track.

 

First, you can't fix her. You can try to 'repair' the relationship but that really isn't the true problem in this. Think of this whole situation as a weed. Topics such as her cheating and mistreatment towards you are 'leaves', the 'Root' of the weed is what is causing her to do this. Unless you get to the root of the problem and get it fixed she will continue to do this. She might not even know why she is doing this and if she says she doesnt there is a good possibility she doesn't know because she is so messed up emotionally.

 

She needs to help herself by going to counseling and finding ways to deal with her self-destructive behavior. What was her past like as a child, teenager? She has to learn from herself why this is happening and only counseling will help her with this. You can't fix this problem no matter how hard you try. It's not because you are not intelligent or love her enough, it's just that you don't have the background that these counselors do. Also you can never be a counselor and a bf/husband at the same time. It doesn't work.

 

The best you can do is to suggest counseling for her. Let her know that there are no guarantees even if she goes to counseling and gets the help she needs. There are boundaries that she has crossed that often are deal breakers. But under no circumstances would you come back if she didn't goto counseling. Past experiences are an indicator of future behavior especially if they don't get help for it.

 

Now, as for you it seems like you have put your own self-worth into her. So when things fail between you two, you fail yourself. You need to get your individuality back, and push yourself away from that. You should be more concerned about that then pushing yourself away from her. Since good chance you did that with her, you will do that with the next person you meet. Their happiness should not be on your shoulders, that's too much for one person to bear. A person needs to be happy within' themselves before they can compliment a relationship.

 

Start making short term goals for yourself, start going out with friends, know that it's not the end of the world. Know that you left the relationship with a clear conscious and that you are the better person for it. Take what you learned and remember it for future reference.

 

Don't be cruel to her, be firm. Don't roll over and piddle on yourself when you see her. Keep your distance, know that she might have not hit rock bottom yet. Some people need this before going to counseling. Don't force it on her, recommend it to her. If she asks you to go, let her know you would think about it but for the time being you need her to go by herself.

 

By the way, how old are you both?

[Mike262]

I have been in a situation almost identical to yours! I can relate to your feelings of "wanting to fix" things. Actually I am going through it right now. Makes you miss the days of high school when we all thought life was "soooo bad"!!

[BW007]

jmargel-

I am 43 and she is 33.

I have suggested the counseling thing and it got nowhere.

I honestly think she has gone off to be with guy number 3 and she is now his problem.That still hurts though. I told her the last time we talked a week and a half ago that she was not dealing with anything.

The overwhelming opinion is that she is a hosebag, no good, a tramp, poison. It's never that simple, but I really appreciate the advice to use my logic over what my emotions might be telling me.

[In Like Flynn]

Run away!!! 1ST get yourself checked out!!! You have shared spit with at least 2-3 guys.

[Athena]

By her age -- thirties -- she is formed in character and must have a previous pattern with cheating on the man in her life. This shows a severe character flaw -- and nothing, not even counseling, will help change her.

 

I am sorry you are dealing with this -- I am your age, well, just turned 44 this month, and my H is the male version of your g/f... BELIEVE me, they do not, and cannot change!!! No amount of loving them is ever enough to 'motivate' them to change what certainly are deeply ingrained habits. I tried for almost 23 years and he still cheats

 

In my husbands first marriage he cheated 5 times, and in our marriage 8 times... his response to this latest affair (2 days ago) ?? = 'please help me change my ways... I don't want to be 'like this'... etc etc, I heard the same spiel over the years... the crocodile tears at possibly losing you, the promises to change, etc etc

THEY CANNOT CHANGE

[Tabuu]

jmargel-

I am 43 and she is 33.

I have suggested the counseling thing and it got nowhere.

I honestly think she has gone off to be with guy number 3 and she is now his problem.That still hurts though. I told her the last time we talked a week and a half ago that she was not dealing with anything.

The overwhelming opinion is that she is a hosebag, no good, a tramp, poison. It's never that simple, but I really appreciate the advice to use my logic over what my emotions might be telling me.

 

Trust and Cheating - Can a Relationship Recover from Infedelity?

 

Definitions of trust on the Web

 

* have confidence or faith in

 

* reliance: certainty based on past experience

 

* allow without fear

 

* believe: be confident about something

 

* the trait of believing in the honesty and reliability of others

 

* hope: expect and wish

 

* faith: complete confidence in a person or plan

 

* confidence: a trustful relationship

 

 

 

What is trust? The above is how the dictionary defines trust. The one that really strikes a cord when cheating is involved is "allow without fear."

 

Lies break trust, and don't think that just because you only tell part of the truth that this means you are not lying. Telling someone what they want to hear - or what you want them to hear, however founded in the truth, if it is not the complete truth, it is still a lie.

 

Cheating breaks trust. Cheating is the ultimate trust breaker - one it is difficult if not impossible to come back from, because not only was there a lie, but there was a total and complete abuse of faith and trust placed in a person.

 

Cheating usually comes with lies too - so not only does one cheat, but one lies about the cheating to cover up the indiscretion. And then the lies get bigger and the trust gets more abused - and this snowball effect comes into play - and it's nearly impossible - if at all, to recover from cheating. No trust. No faith.

 

No chance to "allow without fear."

 

If they have cheated - do you want to know? Is ignorance truly bliss this time? Can you ever look at the past the same if you realize that there was a break of trust there...will the memories ever be the same again? Would you want them to be the same?

 

When it comes right down to it - it's not the cheating that hurts. It is the break of trust, the loss of faith, the changing of perspectives that destroys the heart and brings the anger. It is the realignment of perceptions that really stings the most, when you go back over everything that happened and wonder what was real and what was illusion. That's what hurts.

 

[NewSunrise]

So tell us again the reasons WHY you love this person who doesn't have an ounce of care or respect for you? What qualities you think she has that keeps you involved with her other than perhaps you like the challenge of trying to wean her from her tree of men to which you are a part of?

 

Are you hoping and praying that she'll change for you? But you already know the answer to this and everything else you've asked yourself, don't you?

 

Seriously ask yourself thes questions and then figure out what it is that you want in a relationship or M. You say you love her. Yet, the love that you have is not returned. Question is, how much longer are you willing to allow her to use you until you realize that your relationship with her isn't love, but perhaps your fear of abadonment? She's already done that, abandoned you, by virtue of her behavior.

 

You can't force a round peg into a square hole. You can't change nor do you have any control over someone else's behavior. But you can change yours.

 

Decide and DEMAND from yourself greater things in life, including with relationships. This means setting boundaries and standards that are acceptable and UNacceptable no matter who you're with. Without some sense of self-generated rules, order and guidelines, it can be easy to be influenced unconsciously by other people's behavior and you wouldn't know the difference.

 

Based on your post, you have no sense of direction or self-guided standards. As a result, you feel lost. You criticize and degrade yourself. You, like the other men, allowed yourself to be taken for granted and be used by her. Equally your GF's standards is grossly lacking but from the opposite side of the stick. She has no qualms about using men and people. That is her standards and she won't change. The emotional conflicts you've described is obvious that your standards are not hers. This alone speaks volume of your character and the kind of love you are capable of giving to someone deserving of your love. She doesn't deserve you nor are you like her and you know it. I think you also know in your heart she isn't the one for you.

 

But until you set some standards for yourself, she won't be the last woman you will allow to use you. Not an easy thing to do because it requires rewiring your thinking. It's a process like anything else. Consider it an "upgrade". Kinda like rewiring an old house with updated electrical system. Or learning how to write with your left when you've been right handed your entire life. A challenge. But it can be done.

 

So wanna update yourself? Then rewire your thinking. When you get to this point, your fear of abandonment will dissipate.

[BW007]

Okay, New Sunrise

Yet, the love that you have is not returned. Question is, how much longer are you willing to allow her to use you until you realize that your relationship with her isn't love, but perhaps your fear of abadonment? She's already done that, abandoned you, by virtue of her behavior.

 

This was wicked hard to take. The truth of it burns me. I do have standards but you are absolutely right when you say my boundaries are compromised and it has happened before. I have been trying to get it right for years. Rewiring sounds good, but in practice I don't know how to get there. I don't know what to do.

I can accept my role in this craptastic ending and I am not doing it gracefully or well and I don't like getting abandoned. There are many levels of feelings about this woman who was a big part of the last 6 years of my life and is someone I don't just see in one dimension of love or hatred. Maybe it will be pure, self sustaining indifference soon.

[BW007]

Well, we talked for the first time in almost 2 weeks and established our relationship is permanently over. She is "seeing" guy #3 now and they are "IN A RELATIONSHIP" I know everyone here is saying "You dodged a bullet" or "No **** Sherlock" and all that, but it still makes me want to scream. Well, I guess she will eventually make him very unhappy.

I kept trying to change the script of the conversation but it was just a stubborn streak trying to change things. I still want her to somehow suddenly be a better person. It ain't going to happen towards me.

The truth is I loved this person a lot and I am really, really frustrated that it all went so wrong. I really tried, I really did. I feel craptastic. I am sorry, but I really understand why a lot of guys are callous. My feelings are freakin' poison. They are not helpful at all and are wicked mixed up in a swirl of love, hate, loss, hopelessness, despair and dread. I will pull myself back together but I just do not get the dynamics of true love.

[Mr. Lucky]

Well, we talked for the first time in almost 2 weeks and established our relationship is permanently over.

Huh? It took her telling you for you to accept that the relationship is over? Wasn't the sight of her in bed with another guy enough for YOU to make the decision? With all due respect, you have some issues that should be addressed in therapy...

 

Mr. Lucky

[BW007]

Well thanks, but I already knew that it was blown apart, and I have paid close attention to every single suggestion and idea that this forum has talked about. It is obvious, if I am honest, that I wish she would quit being a crap girlfriend and I have been making progress towards accepting that she IS a horrible crap ex, but because we were not talking for the last couple of weeks there was not the official formal ending that was not yelled at each other although it was over in deed. Please don't judge me too harshly, as it is obvious that this has thrown me WAY off balance and I have simply tried to vent my thoughts and fears on this thread. No doubt I am trying to come to terms with someone in my life who was important and central and has now decided not to be. I get it. I do probably need therapy I can't afford..