Involved with sex worker

[Reggie]

LOL...:D:D! any famous stars we know?

 

 

The "Anaconda" never breaches service provider/client privelige.

[complicatedlife]

.

 

Actually, to be frank, he might get some help out of having a therapist and asking them the best way to address it with her, by giving more explicit details on her exact state of mind and being, so he can have a professional helping him. I'd hate to think we as anonymous advice-givers could give a man advice that would push his wife into hurting herself or worse....

 

I work in healthcare and I can't tell you how many times I have seen devastating consequences to things of this nature; I can't tell you how this resonates with me. Too often on here we are quick to sum up a situation with what is "best" without having the full disclosures as well as what the other person's emotional/mental limitations/capacities are....I hope everyone takes a look at this and keeps this in mind when giving their advice.

[KismetGirl]

I work in healthcare and I can't tell you how many times I have seen devastating consequences to things of this nature; I can't tell you how this resonates with me. Too often on here we are quick to sum up a situation with what is "best" without having the full disclosures as well as what the other person's emotional/mental limitations/capacities are....I hope everyone takes a look at this and keeps this in mind when giving their advice.

 

Exactly. I work in healthcare/mental health as well and people here, while well-meaning, are often too quick with the definitive advice when it comes to other people that they really don't know much about. its difficult to discern an entire situation based solely on the limited information garnered online by an OP. Especially in cases where one person is depressed and etc, rashly giving out advice that full disclosure immediately is the best option, really is not always the best option.

[KismetGirl]

>>>RecordProducer:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by KismetGirl

The morality surrounding her profession would really be irrelevant if she really did love this man.

 

Kismet, you're very wise. I loved your posts. <<<<

 

Gee thanks, I try ;-) Now if only I was this good at giving advice to myself.... :bunny:

[Reggie]

He needs to tell her, somehow. Poor woman is being deceived, robbed of her choices and her time on this planet.

[Arnold_S]

Thanks... Yes I agree - It's all so convenient that she's depressed and I don't have to 'come clean' as some have insisted. I love my wife and I know her better than anyone on this forum. I think one contributor was looking at things strictly from a personal standpoint - having gone through the OW thing.

 

As I said earlier, we are in therapy to deal with all of the problems. One complication is that I don't think her meds are working that well. I'm trying to get her to go to one-on-one counseling but with not much luck. I can't call our marriage quits because I'm afraid my wife's depression may become worse.

[KismetGirl]

Thanks... Yes I agree - It's all so convenient that she's depressed and I don't have to 'come clean' as some have insisted. I love my wife and I know her better than anyone on this forum. I think one contributor was looking at things strictly from a personal standpoint - having gone through the OW thing.

 

As I said earlier, we are in therapy to deal with all of the problems. One complication is that I don't think her meds are working that well. I'm trying to get her to go to one-on-one counseling but with not much luck. I can't call our marriage quits because I'm afraid my wife's depression may become worse.

 

I dont care either way to point a finger and say you are using depression as an excuse to aboid talking about your relationship. Whether you are or arent, you should be talking about your relationship. The reasons you use to not do it are your own, but you need to see beyond it for just a minute.

 

Well, she may not be in one on one counseling but that doesnt mean you cant speak to your mutual therapist by yourself to ask how best to approach the topic of your relationship. I know how depression can hurt, trust me....I've been there a long time and it is horrible to live this way, I feel like I want to go walk off a cliff many days, I feel like no one understands what i am feeling and sometimes I wonder if I am going to hold it together, but I trudge on, and I cant know for sure if youre wife is worse off than me or not as far as the depression goes, but given the proper way of approaching it, she should be able to handle frank discussions on your dissatisfaction and unhappiness in your life/marriage. I dont think pushing the "affair" in her face is either necessary or appropriate at this point, but you can jsut as easily discuss your marriage and dissatisfaction with it no matter what. Maybe her meds arent working, maybe she's at the wrong dose, maybe its the wrong type altogether, who knows, I know nothing of her personal stats. But avoiding the topic altogether will serve to help no one, yourself included.

[NewSunrise]

As I said earlier, we are in therapy to deal with all of the problems. One complication is that I don't think her meds are working that well. I'm trying to get her to go to one-on-one counseling but with not much luck. I can't call our marriage quits because I'm afraid my wife's depression may become worse.

I'm glad you're helping her. You're right. Quitting on your M may cause her deeper into depression.

 

If you think her meds aren't helping, please seriously consider getting that book---"Magnificent Mind At Any Age". Find a medical doctor who is also a therapist and who will scan her brain to properly prescribe the right medication based on her brain's hyper/hypo activity. Most therapists are quick to prescribe anti-depressants which can alter the brain and in turn affect the mind compounding the problem.

 

Perhaps, if you two are in MC, it may take the MC to recommend she needs IC especially since she's emotionally overwhelmed with whatever she's feeling.

[Owl]

KG, have you considered that your "grey view" on telling the truth, on being honest in a relationship...might all be contributing factors as to why you're currently in your OWN situation?

 

It's easy to avoid telling the truth. It's the work of moments to come up with all the reasons not to be honest...especially when it doesn't suit your own wants at the time.

 

Its easy to use the excuse of her health as rationalization to support your own personal desire not to tell...which is exactly what I think the OP is doing here.

 

I think that you're just feeding into his rationalization...partially because it also sets the stage for you to continue with the idea that continued dishonesty in your OWN MM's marriage supports your desire to continue the relationship with him.

 

Have you ever noticed that the OW/OM are nearly always the advocates of continuing the deception if there's any possible rationalization to do so...and the BH/BW are nearly always the ones who push for the truth to come out?

 

Who is better suited for understanding what really is likely to be better for someone's BW? Someone who's been through it, and knows the need for truth in the midst of this kind of deception?

[KismetGirl]

KG, have you considered that your "grey view" on telling the truth, on being honest in a relationship...might all be contributing factors as to why you're currently in your OWN situation?

 

It's easy to avoid telling the truth. It's the work of moments to come up with all the reasons not to be honest...especially when it doesn't suit your own wants at the time.

 

Its easy to use the excuse of her health as rationalization to support your own personal desire not to tell...which is exactly what I think the OP is doing here.

 

I think that you're just feeding into his rationalization...partially because it also sets the stage for you to continue with the idea that continued dishonesty in your OWN MM's marriage supports your desire to continue the relationship with him.

 

Have you ever noticed that the OW/OM are nearly always the advocates of continuing the deception if there's any possible rationalization to do so...and the BH/BW are nearly always the ones who push for the truth to come out?

 

Who is better suited for understanding what really is likely to be better for someone's BW? Someone who's been through it, and knows the need for truth in the midst of this kind of deception?

 

Actually no, I think I gave a very legitimate reason as to why Im not sure he should give full disclosure. I did advocate discussing the relationship itself, the things that make him want to stray physically and eventually emotionally, and that he should consider leaving the marriage, but I do not think it would be responsible of anyone on this board to tell a man who is saying his wife is graetly depressed to give her THIS type of information that might send her over the edge and possibly hurt herself. And others have agreed with me on this point and you know it. I didn't say he shoudl NOT EVER tell her, i said he should FIRST discuss the proper manner with which to approach the situation with a therapist, a professional, preferably one dealing with her in treatment. He already knows WHY he cheats, which is alot more than many MM's can say, so he can address those issues without directly saying right away he cheated. Ya know?

 

Unless I had his wife as my patient, knowing that she is depressed and knowing the extent to which this illness can affect people, i could not in good conscious give this man DEFINITIVE advice to DEFINTITELY tell his wife of his physical and emotional cheating. I think discussing the root of his affair, which he is very aware of, and their relationship will have the same impact in giving her a decision to make on whether she wants to stay or not. There is a big difference in telling someone you are being tempted into cheating because of A, B , C instead of telling a potentialy suicidal person that you've gone and not only slept with a prostitute, but fallen for her as well.

 

Have YOU ever thought that your vision of TELLING every single BS the truth NO MATTER what the situation is, is slightly skewed as well due to your own position, Owl? Because I am looking at this man's post as I would as a professional and in this case I am not speaking from personal opinion solely. Ive discussed why and had plenty people agree with me who often times don't agree with me on my own situation.

[Owl]

It could be, KG.

 

But I'm not sure that it is...because I've had this same "honesty" issue for many, many years prior to my wife's affair.

 

I've ALWAYS been an advocate of getting the issues out in the open and dealing with them, rather than let them fester unseen.

 

I would agree that having gone through what I have, it's brought this trait to the forefront...but...I'd have given the same advice even BEFORE my wife's affair.

 

Because every relationship has TWO people in it...and one person can't make choices like this for the BOTH of them.

 

That simple.

 

If she's so mentally impaired by her depression that she's been declared incapable of taking care of herself...perhaps that's different. But I've not seen any indicator that she's incapacitated by her depression. I could be wrong.

 

But at the end of the day...if she was that badly off, the OP should have considered that in his decision making process BEFORE he started seeking out prostitutes.

 

NOW he's got to deal with it the best way that he can. That doesn't mean the best thing for HIM...that means the best for BOTH of them.

[complicatedlife]

Have YOU ever thought that your vision of TELLING every single BS the truth NO MATTER what the situation is, is slightly skewed as well due to your own position, Owl? Because I am looking at this man's post as I would as a professional and in this case I am not speaking from personal opinion solely. Ive discussed why and had plenty people agree with me who often times don't agree with me on my own situation.

 

KG may be doing that as a sort of projection - I can't say whether that is the case here or not. However, I am going to have to agree that when someone has a mental illness, and depression IS a mental illness in the DSM, you really should, as a spouse, discuss certain disclosures with their therapist to be made aware of any, if there are any impacts on their mental health. I don't understand why some people are insisting that this is an excuse not to tell. While it may be convenient in some cases, it absolutely has validity and credibility from a mental health standpoint.

 

I am sure this will be ignored, though, because it doesn't support some people's beliefs/opinions. Yes, a spouse should always know what is going on so that they can make the right individual choices....but should they also know if it could possibly cause them further depression? Suicidal ideations? Come on.

[complicatedlife]

If she's so mentally impaired by her depression that she's been declared incapable of taking care of herself...perhaps that's different. But I've not seen any indicator that she's incapacitated by her depression. I could be wrong.

 

Depression does NOT always include the inability to take care of ones self or being incapacitated. Many people are diagnosed as clinically depressed but still are able to function "normally".

[KismetGirl]

It could be, KG.

 

But I'm not sure that it is...because I've had this same "honesty" issue for many, many years prior to my wife's affair.

 

I've ALWAYS been an advocate of getting the issues out in the open and dealing with them, rather than let them fester unseen.

 

I would agree that having gone through what I have, it's brought this trait to the forefront...but...I'd have given the same advice even BEFORE my wife's affair.

 

Because every relationship has TWO people in it...and one person can't make choices like this for the BOTH of them.

 

That simple.

 

If she's so mentally impaired by her depression that she's been declared incapable of taking care of herself...perhaps that's different. But I've not seen any indicator that she's incapacitated by her depression. I could be wrong.

 

But at the end of the day...if she was that badly off, the OP should have considered that in his decision making process BEFORE he started seeking out prostitutes.

 

NOW he's got to deal with it the best way that he can. That doesn't mean the best thing for HIM...that means the best for BOTH of them.

 

A) the extent of one's depression is not easily seen by outsiders, least of all outsiders of an internet forum that have nothing to go on but minimal words that the OP gives us. Plenty of perfectly "normal" looking people have gone and killed themselves without prior warning, hence all the families exclaiming "but i didn't even know they were depressed". So, please understand, this is why i often do not agree with your sense of black and white responses to EVERYTHING. There are certain situations, such as this, where caution should be warranted.

 

if you need further evidence, my best friend's brother's girlfriend was cheating on him. no one thought he was "that depressed". he certainly wasn't incapacitated. Seemed normal enough on the every day. Found out she was shagging half her school mates and went and jumped off of a building. I sh*t you not. Jumped off the freaking apartment building. Obviously, honesty didnt help there right off the bat.

 

B) Saying OP "shoudl have" done this or that is irrelevant. You can't change the past, he already did it. All he can do now is be honest about his feelings regarding their relationship and either work to fix it, or accept he cannot be happy where he is and tell his wife. THAT much he can be honest about, his dissatisfaction with the marriage. There are different levels of honesty, and not throwing every detail out at once in certain situations is certainly warranted sometimes. So, say what you will, but perhaps due to my background, I am far mroe cautious when doling out advice to people whose background I only know limited information on. It's just unethical to me otherwise really...

[Reggie]

Depression does NOT always include the inability to take care of ones self or being incapacitated. Many people are diagnosed as clinically depressed but still are able to function "normally".

 

Exactly. There is no reason to believe her depression makes her anymore susceptible to harming herself because of this revelation. It is a huge hit to anyone, depression or not. And, if she is already in treatment for depression , and taking meds( I realize they are fine tuning them), there is an argument to be made that she is , actually, in a less vulnerable position as compared to someone without access to counseling or meds.

See, the failure to consider this other side of the argument, that her depression and attendant care makes her better prepared for the news, demonstrates that this guy is simply looking for whatever reason he can come up with to justify continuing to lie.

He has attached himself to one analysis only , as it provides him with an out. I'm not saying the other analysis re the depression making her less vulnerable is neccessarily correct. But, it has never even crossed his mind.

One other thing. BSs often know on some level what is going on. There is a radar of sorts. I now realize my subconcious was alerting me for a long time. So, perhaps her depression is aggavated by either "knowing" of this betrayal or , even worse, starting to think she is nuts because she is getting conflicting messages from her subconncious vs what this guy is portraying. That gaslighting stuff will cause mental illness.

[Owl]

Unethical is sleeping with another woman's husband...or another man's wife.

 

Suggesting to a cheating man that he tell his wife is unethical?

 

Somehow, I'm not tracking.

[KismetGirl]

Unethical is sleeping with another woman's husband...or another man's wife.

 

Suggesting to a cheating man that he tell his wife is unethical?

 

Somehow, I'm not tracking.

 

 

*sigh* unethical from a professional standpoint to give such definitive advice to a person about another person who has been expressed as being depressed, to what extent I am not told, and as such, it is unethical for me to give a definitive opinion to the man on what to say to her. get my gist now? Though I appreciate the blow to my being an unethical wh*re who f**k's other women;s husband. But alas, this thread isn't about me.

 

I dont know what field you work in, Owl, but in my world unless I know the extent of someone's depression I dont tell their husbands to do anything definitively without first consulting a professional therapist in person who can have a better grasping of the situation. My advice was in hopes to motivate him to do something further, not to tell him exactly what to say to her, because that is best left to a professional therapist who can work with him and his wife. Got it?

[complicatedlife]

Unethical is sleeping with another woman's husband...or another man's wife.

 

Suggesting to a cheating man that he tell his wife is unethical?

 

Somehow, I'm not tracking.

 

 

Surprised by this, Owl.

 

She is speaking professionally. As medical professionals, we are obligated by medical ethical codes to do and not do certain things; when we don't adhere to that, professional licenses can be suspended and in some cases even revoked.

 

Suggesting to a cheating man that he tell his wife is unethical?

...ummm...yes...if it was the medical professional's medical opinion that such "telling" would mentally push the spouse over (further depression, suicide), then, yes - it IS unethical to advise giving the spouse that information. What about that don't you track?

[Owl]

Unless you are offering your services as a medical professional...which you clearly aren't, as posters here on LS...there is no "ethical conflict".

 

I'm not a medical professional. I don't claim to be one. I'm not representing myself, or my advice as such. Any idiot who comes here expecting a medical professional's input is in deep kimchi long before they arrived.

 

To support your concern...the OP should then discuss his wife's ability to handle the truth of their marriage with her medical professionals prior to breaking this to her. Get their assistance and support. If the medical professional insists that there is no way for the truth to be told without risking her life or sanity, only then should the OP consider not telling the truth.

 

There...ethical dilemma solved, and we still get the opportunity for the truth to come out.

[complicatedlife]

Unless you are offering your services as a medical professional...which you clearly aren't, as posters here on LS...there is no "ethical conflict".

 

I'm not a medical professional. I don't claim to be one. I'm not representing myself, or my advice as such. Any idiot who comes here expecting a medical professional's input is in deep kimchi long before they arrived.

 

To support your concern...the OP should then discuss his wife's ability to handle the truth of their marriage with her medical professionals prior to breaking this to her. Get their assistance and support. If the medical professional insists that there is no way for the truth to be told without risking her life or sanity, only then should the OP consider not telling the truth.

 

There...ethical dilemma solved, and we still get the opportunity for the truth to come out.

 

Noone was offering any professional medical services. What was said (written), again, was that in this particular poster's situation, it would be best to consult with the therapist so that he can have an idea on how best to proceed with her as far as any kind of disclosures; and then I wrote in support of her speaking as a professional and not personally, that in certain situations such as this one in this particular thread, that it would be unethical for any therapist to advise giving or not giving certain disclosures to the person who is depressed. It's all relevant, and it's odd that your post is coming across so defensively...and the name calling?

 

Any idiot who comes here expecting a medical professional's input is in deep kimchi long before they arrived.

 

I don't think I'd call such a person an "idiot" - pretty strong word. But, hey, that's me. I've seen legal advisors on here give great suggestions and that would be considered "legal professional input"...don't see a problem with that.

[Owl]

I would disagree...any advice given here isn't "legal anything".

 

Because the validity of the poster giving the advice couldn't be assessed or proven.

 

And...anyone expecting true professional medical advice, and potentially acting on said advice without consulting the true professionals in their own situation would be an idiot. Sorry if that observation offends you.

 

And...I'm by no means defensive about this...I'm offering my opinion/observations, based off my experiences. Which is really the ONLY brand of advice a poster could reasonably expect here.

[complicatedlife]

I would disagree...any advice given here isn't "legal anything"..

And you can disagree. An attorney on a public forum giving his/her advice is giving his/her "legal input" to ME. Same for anyone claiming to be a social worker, a psychiatrist, a plumber, for that matter.

 

Because the validity of the poster giving the advice couldn't be assessed or proven. .

 

A person on a forum may not be able to be validated, but the input they give can certainly be assessed and/or proven by the advisee going to their own physician, attorney, plumber, etc.

 

And...anyone expecting true professional medical advice, and potentially acting on said advice without consulting the true professionals in their own situation would be an idiot. Sorry if that observation offends you. .

I'm never offended on a public forum. I think most of us here are sane and know that information exhanged here is for entertainment puposes only and that we should be consulting with the appopriate professionals when the situation is called for. But I also don't believe in name calling, I would just politely tell the person they may want to go and speak with a professional, so we'll just have to agree to disagree once again.

 

And...I'm by no means defensive about this...I'm offering my opinion/observations, based off my experiences. Which is really the ONLY brand of advice a poster could reasonably expect here.

I agree. But I do think it's great that there are people from all walks of life who are willing to go beyond what is reasonably expected to help others.

[NewSunrise]

Hey Arnold, unless I missed, are you seeking IC? If you are, does C know what you're doing. Are you and W in MC? If you are, based on therapist's determination of your W's condition, why don't you ask the expert if it would be wise to tell your W of your involvement with a prostitute?

 

KG, complicated and OWL make valid points. However, timing IS everything. We don't know for certain of his W's condition. It appears, the W doesn't want IC. But if the W is seeing a therapist for depression, then he needs to be upfront with W's therapists. Therapist may recommend that they BOTH need MC in addition to W's current therapy.

 

Here's another perspective. If the W accidentally finds out he's been doing a prosititute, it will still be devastating and she may relapse deeper into depression and start all over again. She may demand why he wasn't upfront from the get go.

 

Eventually, truth usually surfaces to the light of day. Who knows, maybe the W already instinctively knows he's been cheating. She may be physically challenged, but she's still a woman with instincts that can't be killed. Perhaps this is causing her depression and can't get herself to confront him. Maybe she's expecting him to come clean first.

 

So Arnold, she may already know. My guess is that she does. Now what are you going to do?

[Reggie]

Owl's right. The solution is simple if there is any real concern about her vulnerability. Consult her treater and inquire.

This could have been done long ago and it would not have taken a rocket scientist to figure out if the poster was sincere that this was his reason for continuing to lie. But, it is apparent that his main motivation is to protect himself and keep all options open regardless of their impact on her.

[QueenVictoria]

What is an erotic massage?