Involved with sex worker

[KismetGirl]

I would disagree...any advice given here isn't "legal anything".

 

Because the validity of the poster giving the advice couldn't be assessed or proven.

 

And...anyone expecting true professional medical advice, and potentially acting on said advice without consulting the true professionals in their own situation would be an idiot. Sorry if that observation offends you.

 

And...I'm by no means defensive about this...I'm offering my opinion/observations, based off my experiences. Which is really the ONLY brand of advice a poster could reasonably expect here.

 

Perhaps to you, it should seem logical that people shoudl take the advice here with a grain of salt, but in the real world there are people coming here in dire straights who are NOT thinking clearly and are desperate for help, advice, answers and that is where caution has to be taken. Ok? Calling them an idiot for taking advice on here literally is, frankly, unbecoming on you Owl. You generally strike me as an intelligent person and I thought you'd see that much. It's logical to think no one SHOULD expect medical or legal or other professional advice, but sometimes even the most "layman" of commentary can be taken seriously by someone who is really rather upset and not thinking quite as logically as you may like, and in cases like this, since it IS relevant to my profession, I can't in good faith, even though I am not obviously at work right now, tell the man "sure, go tell your wife everything, even though I have no idea just how depressed she is, and maybe she'll go kill herself but too bad for you for taking this terrible advice!" and so, I said the only LOGICAL thing I knew....to tell him to ultimately talk to a therapist in person, rather than taking any definitive advice here on just how much to tell his wife. Okey dokey? I think we've thread-jacked this to death. Im sure the OP has run off screaming in horror at our bickering by now.

[KismetGirl]

And you can disagree. An attorney on a public forum giving his/her advice is giving his/her "legal input" to ME. Same for anyone claiming to be a social worker, a psychiatrist, a plumber, for that matter.

 

 

 

A person on a forum may not be able to be validated, but the input they give can certainly be assessed and/or proven by the advisee going to their own physician, attorney, plumber, etc.

 

I'm never offended on a public forum. I think most of us here are sane and know that information exhanged here is for entertainment puposes only and that we should be consulting with the appopriate professionals when the situation is called for. But I also don't believe in name calling, I would just politely tell the person they may want to go and speak with a professional, so we'll just have to agree to disagree once again.

 

 

I agree. But I do think it's great that there are people from all walks of life who are willing to go beyond what is reasonably expected to help others.

 

Very well said

[KismetGirl]

What is an erotic massage?

 

On the very slim chance that there is someone who really doesn't know what it is....and one never knows.....erotic massage is one in which, generally, a woman gives a massage to a man while wearing little to no clothing (topless or nude, generally), and finish the massage with a sexual act of some kind. Usually a manual release, but sometimes, if the client and "masseuse" agree to it, oral sex , or even full intercourse. But at a minimum, its naked massage with a handjob. Yup.

[tami-chan]

The "Anaconda" never breaches service provider/client privelige.

 

 

REGGIE! LOL...oh god...anaconda! jeeezzzz....

[Reggie]

What is an erotic massage?

 

It varies. For me, it always involves some type of condiment and Pee Wee Herman videos.:bunny:

[Owl]

I agree with KG...it's time to get this back on subject.

 

For the OP...my advice stands.

 

Talk with your wife's care provider. Discuss with him the best way to bring out the truth in your marriage, find a way to give your wife the truth if at all possible.

 

If you can...then work through what needs to happen to protect your marriage without you becoming physically AND emotionally involved with someone other than your wife.

 

If you can't do that...get her agreement in whatever plan you've got to take care of your needs.

 

If you can't talk with her...then realize the sheer destructiveness of your plan...how it pretty much garauntees the end of your marriage if you continue...and break off and find your OWN solution that doesn't include someone else.

 

If you can't do either of those things...divorce your wife...and move on. Sure, that too will be devestating to her...and that's what a marriage is all about...balancing YOUR wants and needs against hers. If you can only focus on your own...there's NO sense in being married.

 

Simple enough options...sure, they're not easy...but they're also not rocket science to work out either.

[Arnold_S]

What I sense is that this is an issue that some of you are quite passionate about... unfortunately everyone knows where I ended up allowing passion to take over my life.

 

This is an issue that requires rationale thought - thought unclouded by strong emotions gained through some bad experience you may have had. That's why people see therapists and not just anyone for advise.

 

I sense a lot of anger in some of these posts... and, maybe you have every right to be angry - who knows. But my original post was to get advise and hopefully knowledge through this exchange that might help me move forward with these issues. And, In some respects I think I have gained a renewed perspective as a result of your comments - thank you for this.

 

I am in individual therapy with a physiatrist. I asked his advise and he indicated that as my wife is not a patient he was reluctant to advise as to telling her about the OW or not. However, he did indicate that one would be best to err on the side of caution in this case.

 

I'm going to sigh-off from this thread and get to work on rebuilding my life... what ever that means. Once again, thanks for your comments.

[Owl]

Why don't you ask HER medical professionals, rather than your own? As she is their patient, they CAN comment.

 

Asking your own doesn't do you one bit of good, as you've found.

 

Ask HERS.

 

What's so tough about that?

[KismetGirl]

Why don't you ask HER medical professionals, rather than your own? As she is their patient, they CAN comment.

 

Asking your own doesn't do you one bit of good, as you've found.

 

Ask HERS.

 

What's so tough about that?

 

Well to be fair, i don't know what country OP is in, but in USA the HIPAA (medical privacy) laws state that a medical provider cannot discuss a patient's treatment to ANYONE without their explicit written consent, including spouses. So technically he'd have to ask his wife for permission to speak to her therapist first, assuming the therapist is going about things legally.

 

But yes, assuming they have a joint therapist, as I thought he said they did, it would be best to talk to that one individually before talking to the W.

 

Anyway, I think OP has bowed out now, so I guess I will too. I have my own crapola storm in the morning with my MM. Fun.

[Owl]

Hmmm...so here's a thought.

 

If she's mentally functional enough to legally sign her own HIPAA agreements with her doctor(s), then she's probably mentally functional enough to be told the truth.

 

If she's NOT functional enough to sign her own agreements, then her H (Arnold) is probably the one doing the signing for her...so no violation of HIPAA would occur.

 

Last...he could always simply ask the doctor for advice on how to proceed with telling her this information, WITHOUT asking the doctor to divulge any information around her treatment or condition. Simply approach the doctor, explain the situation, and explain to him that you're looking for the best possible way to work through this issue with her...and ask for his input, without asking for any specific information about what's being done for her.

[QueenVictoria]

Ok, Thank you. I did not know that.

[Reggie]

It's pretty clear that he does not want to tell her and that her welfare is not really the reason. There are many ways that he could check on her tolerance for this. It's an excuse.

[KismetGirl]

Hmmm...so here's a thought.

 

If she's mentally functional enough to legally sign her own HIPAA agreements with her doctor(s), then she's probably mentally functional enough to be told the truth.

 

If she's NOT functional enough to sign her own agreements, then her H (Arnold) is probably the one doing the signing for her...so no violation of HIPAA would occur.

 

Last...he could always simply ask the doctor for advice on how to proceed with telling her this information, WITHOUT asking the doctor to divulge any information around her treatment or condition. Simply approach the doctor, explain the situation, and explain to him that you're looking for the best possible way to work through this issue with her...and ask for his input, without asking for any specific information about what's being done for her.

 

Owl, you're a smart guy, but obviously unaware of things related to psychiatry. Levels of "functioning" as related to the law don't always seem to make logical sense (and what you said makes logical sense, of course, but its not reality unfortunately. Logical people don't make the law apparently....big shocker there). if a person is conscious and able to walk around and isn't physically trying to hang themselves or stab anyone else right in front of you at that very moment, they are considered "functional" and therefor in control of their own medical privacy. Unless a person has actually gone and tried to kill themselves or some such thing and were them committed, they have full control. I could have a patient telling me he is going to go outside and walk in front of a car, or jump off a building, or swallow a bottle of pills, but if he is conscious and refuses to go to the psych ward, I can't make him go, and neither can the police. I've been frustrated by this sort of thing on more than one occasion. I had a guy tell me he was going to go kill himself. I called the police and the EMT to escort him to the psychiatric facility. Once they got there, he decided he didnt want to go. The police said their hands were tied- they couldnt take him if he didnt want to go because he wasn't actually trying to harm himself or anyone else at that very moment, he was only mentioning he might. And hey! 10 hours later I get a call that he went back to his shelter and swallowed a bottle of klonopins. THEN we could make him go to the psych ward, cause he was unconscious and therefor could not make his own decisions, and have physically MADE the suicide attempt already. Stupid way to do it, but i guess its a fine line. Sad, but it's how the law is. She could be very depressed to the point that certain information would push her to hurt herself, but as long as she is physically functioning semi-feasibly , she controls her own treatment and who can discuss her medical treatment (HIPAA law). There is nothing signed prior to treatment beginning- the confidentiality of her treatment is assumed by the law. The only signing that occurs is IF she decides to allow her doctor to speak to her husband, THEN she would need to sign a form stating she is allowing this. The confidentiality is otherwise assumed. Her spouse has no legal rights to knowledge of her treatment whatsoever unless she was unconscious or somehow else incapacitated.

 

BUT you are right on one thing- he could very well talk to her doctor in a general sense without being told anything specific about her treatment and just asking the doc for advice on whether it would be good to say certain things or not. Technically the doc isn't allowed....but in many cases they will "unofficially" discuss treatment with a spouse. They are only human. But its a tough call....no one wants to get sued at the end of the day, unfortunately, and are afraid if it gets back to anyone that they disclosed something they werent given permission to disclose, they very well could be sued. It's very frustrating. I've had a husband and wife, both as patients, seeing me and my colleague seperately, and the husband was my patient, the wife my colleagues. The husband admitted to me to cheating on his wife, and admitted that he had contracted gonorrhea from , most likely, one of the multiple prostitutes he'd slept with. The man was a sex addict. And sadly, he probably gave it to his wife. And I couldn't tell her, legally, as much as I thought he was a piece of crap and wanted to tell her. very frustrating position to be in.

 

Lol, how did this thread turn into medical ethics? :-) I think OP has run off, he appears to be done with us!

[KismetGirl]

Ok, Thank you. I did not know that.

 

ha. you're welcome. don't you feel so much more enlightened now ;-)

[cyn2much]

I have been a professional escort for three years. I fell in love with a married client. To make a very long story short, the affair resulted in heartache for everyone involved and needless to say, I am still recovering from it. Although it shouldn't be encouraged, I do believe something positive can come out of an SP/client relationship. However, when there is a spouse involved, things can get very ugly. More to the point, we should not be focusing this lady's profession as an important factor. This has more to do with the marraige (or lack of one) In my personal experience, I decided to leave my profession out of love and adoration for my married lover. For the most part our relationship was very healthy and functional.

 

I read some comments regarding escorts wanting suger daddies. Sure, we get offers form suger daddies (aka boundry crossers) frequently. It's not something most professional savvy escorts will give a second glance to. It's just not a smart business practice. There are so many misconceptions about us out there. Many of you would be surprised...

[RecordProducer]

I have been a professional escort for three years. I fell in love with a married client. To make a very long story short, the affair resulted in heartache for everyone involved and needless to say, I am still recovering from it....

... For the most part our relationship was very healthy and functional.

So, when you fell in love with him, did you still charge him for sex? Did you continue to work with other clients?

[KismetGirl]

I have been a professional escort for three years. I fell in love with a married client. To make a very long story short, the affair resulted in heartache for everyone involved and needless to say, I am still recovering from it. Although it shouldn't be encouraged, I do believe something positive can come out of an SP/client relationship. However, when there is a spouse involved, things can get very ugly. More to the point, we should not be focusing this lady's profession as an important factor. This has more to do with the marraige (or lack of one) In my personal experience, I decided to leave my profession out of love and adoration for my married lover. For the most part our relationship was very healthy and functional.

 

I read some comments regarding escorts wanting suger daddies. Sure, we get offers form suger daddies (aka boundry crossers) frequently. It's not something most professional savvy escorts will give a second glance to. It's just not a smart business practice. There are so many misconceptions about us out there. Many of you would be surprised...

 

Nobody cares what she does for a living. Well, most people anyway. What people were focusing on was the fact that if you love a man, you don't keep him on as a paying client. I worked around plenty of escorts. And plenty of them kept foolish men believing that they really liked them when in reality they were nothing more than paying clients, and thats it.

 

This thread should be closed already its gone and done, I think. Mods?

[cyn2much]

So, when you fell in love with him, did you still charge him for sex? Did you continue to work with other clients?

 

 

No, I didn't charge him for TIME. I didn't see clients anymore and I didn't treat him as a client. We were a couple as far as I was concerned.

[cyn2much]

Nobody cares what she does for a living. Well, most people anyway. What people were focusing on was the fact that if you love a man, you don't keep him on as a paying client. I worked around plenty of escorts. And plenty of them kept foolish men believing that they really liked them when in reality they were nothing more than paying clients, and thats it.

 

This thread should be closed already its gone and done, I think. Mods?

 

Why should the thread be closed?

 

I can appreciate your point, however I feel if the pesron who is in love with the provider doesn't feel that he is being taken advantage of I don't think it is an issue. Yes, there is an exchange of money for time but if both are content with that arrangement I don't see the harm in it. I remember growing up and seeing my father putting a stack of twenties on my mother's night stand before he would go to work. Sometimes she would say: "Is that all you have? I want to get some shoes this week" or something to that effect. Is it really so different? Sometimes, we can't always proclaim the same rules should apply every relationship. Men have been trying to endear themselves to the women they care for in many ways since before time- the most anchient method being the provider of material things or food. It's when one person in the relationship actually feels duped or had-that's when there is an issue. At this stage, it is the that person's responsiblity to contemplate the relationship.

[KismetGirl]

Why should the thread be closed?

 

I can appreciate your point, however I feel if the pesron who is in love with the provider doesn't feel that he is being taken advantage of I don't think it is an issue. Yes, there is an exchange of money for time but if both are content with that arrangement I don't see the harm in it. I remember growing up and seeing my father putting a stack of twenties on my mother's night stand before he would go to work. Sometimes she would say: "Is that all you have? I want to get some shoes this week" or something to that effect. Is it really so different? Sometimes, we can't always proclaim the same rules should apply every relationship. Men have been trying to endear themselves to the women they care for in many ways since before time- the most anchient method being the provider of material things or food. It's when one person in the relationship actually feels duped or had-that's when there is an issue. At this stage, it is the that person's responsiblity to contemplate the relationship.

 

Babe, I have no problem with sex for money. if two consenting adults want to do it, go for it. My point is that these silly men often BELEIVE the girls really love them back when most of the time, while they often enjoy the guy's company, they have no intention to be with him, nor have they fallen in love with him. My further point being that no woman, being in love with a man, will continue a partially-business relationship.

 

A husband providing for his wife by leaving her money to buy shoes or whatever it is is just that- he's providing for his wife. Boyfriends buy their girlfriends stuff, that's cool too. But there is no blurryness of the relationship, because they ARE officially in a relationship. In this original poster's situation, it was plainly obvious that this woman did not want to be with him. Let me tell you, I would have no problem from a morality standpoint in accepting sex for money if that was something I was inclined to do. But I would NEVER , if I fell in love with a man, keep him as a client. I would tell him I wanted a relationship. In this poster's situation, she stopped taking his money for a little while, but when it was obvious he would not be paying her bills, or otherwise supporting her, or leaving his wife to do these things, she decided to go back to a feee-for-service relationship, which is not, in my experience with many girls I've known, indicative of a situation in which she loved him back. let's be honest here ok?

 

I have seen plenty girls with men who were coming to see them every week, every few days, waht have you, and genuinly believed these girls loved them or wanted them, and these girls valued these men as nothing more than clients. They told me that on many occasions. If you read an earlier post I wrote, I said there was one girl I recalled who had a client who was a married man, father of two, who professed to love her and she let him believe she felt the same way. He paid $8000 for her for rent , paid her bills, bought her things, tried to introduce her to his children for god's sake. he did not at all believe she only valued him for his financial support, and sadly, she did, and that is what generally happens. Most of the girls I worked with , as a rule, did not want to have relationships with clients, or relationships that started as a client-provider meeting, because they wanted something real, smething unscathed.

 

And, I said the thread should be closed because this is in the wrong forum now. If we wish to continue a discussion on the merits of client-provider relationships in the sex trade it would be better left to another forum....this one is for other men/other women. Just the rules of the board, is all, I do hate to thread jack and Im pretty sure the OP is long gone at this point...

[Owl]

This thread turned into a discussion of medical ethics because the OP attempted to claim that his "reason" for not telling his with the truth was because of her medical condition. (Which, frankly I think is a convenient "out" for him to avoid truly attempting to deal with the overall situation).

 

It turned into a discussion around SP psychology and romantics based off the OP's original issue...that he uses SP's to "meet his needs" and has begun to fall in love with one.

 

This is all still relevent to this thread...and while the OP may have said that he was done, odds are high that he's still going to come back and check on this thread...and hopefully he'll still get some useful information out of this discussion.

 

In reality, I don't believe he's had the slightest intention of considering his wife's desires throughout all of this, nor do I honestly think he'd EVER truly consider discussing any of this with his wife whatsover. He's got the perfect excuse to avoid ever seeing any true consequences to his actions.

 

But I'd love to see him prove me wrong.

[jj33]

Owl I half agree with you. He has admitted several times he knows what he is doing is not right. He feels stuck. He doesnt know what to do with himself. Should he stay or should he leave? Now he sees he shouldnt leave for the current girl but maybe in general. As I have said I dont think his situation is any different than any other MM who is dissatisfied with his sex life. Its just a little more complicated because she is ill.

 

But you are right if he wanted to tell her, he would discuss it with her therapist and see if there was a risk to her mental health, the doctor or therapist would tell him. Its not rocket science.

[NoIDidn't]

Hey Arnold, step back for a moment and put yourself in your W's shoes. I read your entire post and NOT ONCE have you considered what your W has been faced with.

 

If it were you who was stricken with whatever physical disabilities your W is enduring, wouldn't you be flippin DEPRESSED?! She can no longer have the abilities to fulfill your physical, emotional and "all about you" needs! Not to mention the thought of you having your needs met by anyone other than her. No wonder her depression level has skyrocketed!

 

Look, if you are the kind of man that has a heart, at least help your W in the recovery process where she can be mentally healthy.

 

 

This is exactly how I feel. And thank God I am not married to a man like this who would consider his feelings and needs more than the fact that I need him.

 

While he is being *serviced*, she is home alone and likely feeling isolated and more depressed. But he probably doesn't notice this.

 

I think he should be putting time into his marriage, not into his sex life. Marriage is NOT a guarantee of sex. Men (and women) should really stop buying into that lie. Marriage is about building a LIFE together, come what may. And many things will come in LIFE.

 

Arnold better hope to not end up like Morgan Freeman and get into a car accident while with his OW. His W would certainly find out then. Especially if it happened in the *red light district*.