Confusion and dissaray, I just don't know what to do!

[Azphodel]

In order to save time, I'm just going to jump straight to the point. Abour five years ago, I met someone I'll call L. We turned into best friends very quickly. About a year into our friendship we went to a party together, and at that party I told her about how much I had grown to care and love her. She told me that she knew about it all, but didn't think it would work out. After about a half hour disscussion, she went back into the house we were out and by the end of the night, she hooked up with one of the other guys there.

 

Our friendship actually lasted, and after about two more years, she moved closer to town, and I started going over to her house over that summer. I was over there durring one of the most traumatic events of her life. She had moved in with her mother, who was dying of cancer. I was over there almost every day, and also happened to be there the day her mother died. Over that years before that, we had talked about our relationship, and what I wanted out of it, but at the time, I was just happy to see here everyday. No one even dropped by to console her that entire week, not ever her current boyfriend. I didn't know what to say, and ended up just talking with her, trying to comfort her in her time of need. After this she moved a few towns over and I didn't see her for a while.

 

A few months after she moved away, she came to visit me and we came seconds away from fooling around (she was single at the time) but nothing really happened, other than her almost falling asleep on my lap, and me playing with her hair. At one point L said, "You really do love me and care about me as much as you say you do, don't you?" I said yes of course. She went home late that day, and I didn't see her for a very long time after that.

 

This is where thing get a little complicated. Around that time, I started using pot, and there was never a problem with us, but when I started drinking about a year after I started smoking pot, I changed into an uncaring selfish person. I grew VERY bitter about the fact nothing happened between us in the past few years. Almost a year ago, I had got an phone call from my friend Ed, and said that he just talked to L, and she needed a place to stay. I called L up and told her to move in with me, I had a decent income and an extra room for her to stay in. She moved in and things were okay, until she started to date one of my best friends. My bitterness took over, and one night I picked up the bottle, went to my basement party room and started to drink. Now she is very opposed to drinking, and at the time I had taken a break from the pot. Needless to say she was irate, but we worked through that. A few weeks later, my friend S came over and offered me some pot to smoke, and I decided to indulge, she came down stairs into the party room and went balistic again, and in a few days she was gone.

 

A few more months went by and I finally met someone I really liked, but there was a problem, things between us started almost exactly like they did with L: we quickly turned into best friends, and I was too overwhelmed and shy to ask her out, and when I got the gourage to offer to take her for a long day at the mall and a bite to eat, she kindly turned me down, but said shed take a rain check. A few days later, L moved back in town, and one day while I was over at one of my friends houses, she dropped in and we talked for a while. She asked me if I knew why we never started a relationship, and she told me it was because we were too close together. She started to talk about how my drinking was a problem, and I told her to leave, that I never wanted to talk to her again. I seemed angry, but deep down it hurt like hell to do that.

 

This brings us to this week. I had a few revelations over the weekend about how the alcohol had changed me, and how now I was smoking pot just to smoke it, instead of doing it for the creativity it gave me (which was the reason I started in the first place). I told L how I had lost sight of myself, and how I just wanted to go back to the way things were, when I was happy to just see her, instead of being bitter about the past. She said she was ok with pot now (Her boyfriend, the one who was my best friend had introduced her to the party scene, and while she didn't pick up any habbits, she understood that its not all bad). I ended up staying the night with her, and watching her get turned down by three potential dates that day to.

 

Heres the problem...last night the I heard that the friend who I had asked out a few months ago wants to see me, and I really want to go, but also want to see what turns out with L. Should I tell her how I feel again and ask her out, or just keep by her side and be just friends like we were two years ago? Or should I go see the friend who probably wants to go out on that date (Hopefully)? I just dont know what to do right now...

[midori]

I have a long answer and a short answer. Short one first: go with the new girl. Even if L seems to be interested, even if news of you dating the new girl seems to disturb her, you pursue things with the new girl. L has had many, many chances and she never took even one. There's a reason, and it's probably that she isn't really into you as anything other than a friend.

 

So that was the short answer. The long answer is kind of tricky, and I don't know how well I'll be able to express myself but I'm going to give it a try. It kind of sounds like you're being too passive about women you're interested in. I'm reading between the lines somewhat, based on your description of how things unfolded with your friendship with L, and how things went with the new girl. And I see a pattern I recognize all too well.

 

There's a bit of conventional wisdom, in my view inaccurate, that says that nice guys finish last. The reason I think that's inaccurate is that it's not a guy's decency or niceness that puts him at a disadvantage with women, it's what boils down to cowardice. Over the years I have had several male friends who developed a romantic interest in me, and while they were willing to let me know about their interest by telling me, they weren't willing to make a pass at me, a full-fledged come-on. Their m.o. was to make their interest known, do nothing more, and then pine for me with lots of angst that almost always ended up wrecking the friendship, because I have no patience for angst. Apparently they thought that I would take their timid notification of their interest on board and then I would be the one to make the first move, so to speak, if I wished.

 

Some might interpret that as being gentlemanly, not foisting oneself on someone. But to me (and to many female friends I've discussed this with over the years) it's cowardice: these guys didn't have the guts to take a risk, see their own intiative through, see what would happen. They lacked confidence in themselves. I won't go into all the in's and out's of what women find attractive, naturally there's huge variation. But part of what turns me on is seeing that a guy is turned on by me. That's not all it takes, of course, and I've also rejected many an insensitive boor who had too much confidence and not enough actual interest in me beyond a one-night stand.

 

It sounds like you get to know a girl as a friend first and then you politely let her know you're interested in her, and sit back and wait to see what she'll do. I'd hazard a guess that that's what's tripping you up. Think about it: you're interested in your friend, and so you calmly (nervously perhaps) announce your interest in her. You're in effect putting her on the spot: she's supposed to have an answer to a question she probably didn't see coming. Like I said, part of what turns me on to a guy (again, let me emphasize, part) is knowing that he wants me. I don't assume that my guy friends want me. I assume we're friends because they're not interested in me in any other way.

 

So what am I supposed to do with an out-of-the-blue "uh, gee midori, um, I really like you and um if you want it would be nice to well, um, you know, maybe go out sometime." Annd? As opposed to all the other times we've gone to the movies or for a drink or whatever as friends? What's different?

 

What's different is passion, physical attraction. You're not just interested in L or this new girl as friends, right? You don't want to just go to the movies with them, right -- you can already do that. You want more, you've been thinking about more, right? That's your goal, so why not come out and say it? Why not say, "wow New Girl, you look really hot tonight. I mean you ought to know that I've always thought you were very attractive. And I've got to say that I'd be a very happy man if I got the chance to take things further with you..." and see how she responds. Does she want to hear more? Does she respond in kind? I'll bet she will since she's calling you on the raincheck. But you've got to have some guts! You shouldn't expect her to make the first move. She's not the one who shyly told you that she's interested in you, right?

 

There's certainly no law that says a woman can't come on to a man, or that a woman can't respond to a man's mild indication of interest by turning on the heat herself. But in my experience that's not too likely. Whether it's due to socialization or whatever, usually the dynamic is the man initiating something. And that makes it hard for guys who lack confidence. Sucks, I know. But c'est la vie, and hey you don't ever have to worry about how you're ever going to lose the weight you gain during pregnancy! There are pros and cons to every situation.

 

So if any of this applies to you I think you need to gather your courage and make a move on the new girl. L doesn't seem like a good bet. She's known about your feelings for a long time, it didn't wreck your friendship (as it probably would have with an impatient person like me), but neither has it led her to respond in kind. The ball has been in her court for a long time, and if she's only moved to act when she sees you heading for another woman, I think that's probably a good sign that she's not really ready to take you on. Don't let her ruin your chances with the new girl.

 

Take a shower before you meet New Girl. Put on a good shirt and a clean pair of jeans. She already knows you, she likes you, you look just fine. Make a move.

[moimeme]

There's certainly no law that says a woman can't come on to a man, or that a woman can't respond to a man's mild indication of interest by turning on the heat herself. But in my experience that's not too likely

 

Mightn't it make things easier if women gave at least some indication that such an offer might be welcome, should it be made?

[midori]

Originally posted by moimeme

Mightn't it make things easier if women gave at least some indication that such an offer might be welcome, should it be made?

 

is the offer "going out sometime"? If the guy is vague about what it is he's after, he's essentially asking the woman to say "why yes Ivan, I've been hoping you'd try to kiss me for months. How about now?" If that were the case, wouldn't she have made herself available already? And sometimes women do. But from the conversations I've had with women, and this definitely holds true for me, I don't start thinking along those lines unless I know the guy is. Putting the onus on me, or women like me, will get a guy nowhere.

 

Acknowledging romantic interest in a friend who isn't interested in you may well damage the friendship, at least for a while; that's the nature of these things. So taking a half-step and then waiting to see if the woman will do the rest, make it easy for you, is cowardly for no reason. You've already put the friendship in jeopardy if she's not interested in you. So if you want her, make it clear.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of happy relationships in which the woman made the first move, or took matters into her own hands. But for some reason none of the women I have discussed this situation with operate that way. And if Azophel is wondering why he keeps getting stuck in friendship mode with women, this is one possible explanation.