marriage in crisis husband has retreated

[angie2443]

So... guys/gals...what's going on? I feel like I'm getting shoveled crap from both sides. Is this normal, did you go through this same stuff? I'm not really sure how to proceed. As I had mentioned, I've come to terms with the possiblity of a divorce and moving on, and I'm good with that, however, I would prefer to work things out with my H... or at least I would like to try to work things out. But, not sure how to proceed at this point.

.

 

My situation was a little differant since my husband didn't want out of the marriage, except for a couple of momments when the fights got out of hand. I did carry things all by myself for a bit, but he soon joined me in the fight for our marriage. You can do all the work for some time and then, if he decides to join the fight, the marriage might stand a chance. He needs to join you, though. Right now, it sounds like your in this all by yourself. This can't last forever. Maybe someone else on here can help you more. I hope it gets better for you soon.

[Snowflower]

 

So... guys/gals...what's going on? I feel like I'm getting shoveled crap from both sides. Is this normal, did you go through this same stuff? I'm not really sure how to proceed. As I had mentioned, I've come to terms with the possiblity of a divorce and moving on, and I'm good with that, however, I would prefer to work things out with my H... or at least I would like to try to work things out. But, not sure how to proceed at this point.

 

 

Hi Molley, I hope you had a better day yesterday.

 

Your situation sounds a lot like the one I was in last year. My H couldn't seem to decide at that time if he wanted to stay married or not. He would go back and forth and jerk me around-one day he would want me and the marriage, the next day he wouldn't. So, I sympathize with what you are going through because it is emotionally exhausting.

 

I think you are doing the right thing by just kind of distancing yourself and telling him that you are going to move forward with your life. From what you are posting here, it sounds like you are very strong and you are thinking about a life on your own-even though it is hard to think of that sometimes.

 

My guess is your husband is very conflicted/confused about what he wants to do (no surprise there, right!). IMO, it sounds like your H has distanced himself from you-obviously a great deal of emotional distance since he had an A-but I don't think he has completely disconnected from you. Otherwise, he would either be with the OW and/or proceeding with a separation/divorce. So, there might be hope for your marriage but I think you probably should continue to make other plans and move forward with your life.

 

From my experience with my H, there is nothing you can do right now to make him make up his mind or come to a decision. He will need to do that on his own. It sounds like you are doing a good job at just adopting a "whatever" attitude (good for you) and letting him be in his own misery. Truly, it is his problem not yours although it probably feels like he is dragging you through the mud with him.

 

I hope that your H goes ahead with the IC and if you guys are going to do MC then that is good also. Although from my experience and from what I have read here on the forums, MC is useless unless both of you want to commit to trying to save the marriage. I can't remember from your posts, but are you in IC yourself? It might be beneficial to you at this point to have an unbiased opinion--I know it was for me when I went through a similar situation to yours.

 

Good luck to you! I really think I can sympathize with what you are going through. I had an H that acted much the same way yours did-albeit for different reasons.

[Molley]

Thanks so much Snowflower. Your post gave me a bit of hope.

 

Yes, Sunday actually did turn out to be a bit better. I got up and basically just went about my life, didn't react to him, didn't draw out conversation. Just let him be. Plus, I think I maybe coming down with something, feeling a yucky.

 

He actually was a bit more responsive to me, kept checking up on me. Actually spooned me a for about a minute when I was lying down, trying to nap. So, if nothing else, it was an even day, nothing emotional.

 

He again slept in the guest room, but came up to wish me a good morning before he left for work. And he's been sending me emails today.

 

I guess this is just the roller coaster that I'm going to be on for now. I'm focusing on myself, trying to stay strong and looking for a job.

 

I'm going to call today and find a new IC. The one I had, we started using for MC and feel she really did more harm than good.

[taylor]

Hi Molley,

 

Glad you enjoyed your time away...and thanks for posting on your return.

 

Sounds like you and your husband are both kind of talking out both sides of your mouth, playing the, "Well, I don't care if you don't care" game.

 

Lots of mixed messages going back on forth.

 

You tell him you're thinking of taking a job that will separate you...and then say you want to hang on to the marriage. You tell him you'll gladly give him the divorce if he wants it, yet you're actively looking for a new MC.

 

He's sleeping in the guest room one minute and then having great sex with you the next minute. He's agreed to continue counseling and is reading the books, but then says he'd be happy to move you a million miles away.

 

Just tells me you both are still very confused. You're both still processing and looking for answers that make some sense.

 

Don't be surprised if things hang in this limbo for awhile. It's OK.

 

Some good signs:

 

He's communicating with you, with friends, and in counseling.

 

You and he are still having moments where you are connecting...talking, running errands, tennis, having sex.

 

He is still in NC with the OW...as long as he continues with NC, the better the chances of the affair "fog" lifting.

 

It's all going to take time..lots of time.

 

The only thing you wrote that alarmed me somewhat was his "friends with benefits" comment. Kind of strange, IMO, for a man to want sex with his wife following an affair, but willing to forego the rest of the relationship, for the most part. But, like you said, sex has never been the problem between the two of you.

 

What do you think the problem is? What do you think drove him to the OW? Just MORE sex? Or do you think it was more than that?

 

You said in a previous post that they didn't have sex until the night before he came home. Leads me to believe his affair was primarily emotional..an emotional attachment to the OW.

 

IMO, a separation is the worst thing you could do. You and your husband have spent alot of time apart over the years which easily could have led to a slow emotional detachment. Neither one of you may have even really saw it coming...just a vague kind of unhappiness that doesn't come into full focus until someone like the OW comes on the scene.

 

I hope your MC pushes for both of you to take steps to try to reconnect...rather than make further plans to disconnect. You will never have a chance to reconnect if you agree to an LDR. That would be as good as saying it's over.

[Molley]

Okay... let's try this again. I had just finished writing my reply, a client called and I lost everything....ugh

 

Thanks for the response Taylor. I actually do not want to move away on my own and be without my friends and support network. The only way that I would concider moving is if we had made a decision to make the marriage work and it was on firmer ground. Then he could request for a job transfer.

 

So what made H have an A? Well, IMO... I believe it started a couple years ago, and that's about the time H said he started feeling unhappy. 2 years ago he got deployed to Iraq. I left my secure corp job and joined another company got recruited, promised lots, got great pay. 6 months into the job, I realized that i was extremely unhappy, it was the job from hell, boss was satan, i was working non stop, weekends, etc. H finally came home and told me to find something else because I was so unhappy. I decided to start my own business. Since then, I've been struggling to make it work. My bus is dependent on clients who spend disposable income... not happening in this economy. So jobs have been few and far between, I've been stressed non stop, worried about the bus going under, worried about us not having money, seeing the saving being depleted. When I talked to h, trying to get some emotional support, his response is "no worries... i fully believe in what you're doing." And that's it... he didn't want to talk about it further... I've put us in debt, he's not happy. At the same time, he's unhappy about his job, he came back from Iraq, assumed responsibilities as a senior NCO, began working nights and weekends, we saw little of each other, but then when he started working days and had weekends off. He still hated his job (of course, he never told me how much he hated it and how bored he was with it until recently.) He started drinking pretty heavily, I asked him to stop it, but he didn't so that lead to a couple confrontations... he's not a nice drunk and it always had to do with him wanting sex and me not so much when he's drunk. So, I"m working non stop, not paying attention to him and retreating because he's not providing emotional support (cause he doesn't know how, his parents are still married but hate each other, dad doesn't talk to anyone, abusive relationship.) H is unhappy, he's not getting sex on a reg basis anylonger, I'm not spending time with him, he keeps asking me to do things, go bike riding, play golf, tennis, take a day trip into the city... etc. but I'm always working because we need the money. i'm not paying attention to him. He retreats. Then he leaves for 7 weeks of training and meets OW. She's exciting, new, strokes him, compliments him.... and that's the affair.

 

I now realize that everything I was working for is nothing without my husband to help me enjoy it. I was doing this for us, he just saw it as an interference between us. When the affair started, he told the OW that he was in a marriage that was unhappy and falling apart, that I no longer wanted to be married. He justified it saying that it was both of us that wanted out. Only problem was, I ddn't feel that way, he had placed those thoughts in his own mind.

 

so, here I am.... I feel like everything has been destroyed and I'm starting from scratch. Two years ago, we were a happy successful couple, who could do anything together, now its all gone. I know he shouldn't have had the affair, that was his own doing, yet my pushing him away didn't help, and the fact that he didn't know how to communicate his unhappiness helped seal the deal. Now I've got a broken husband and marriage and he cant decide if he wants to be single.

[Molley]

and Taylor, thank you for the emotional support :-)

[Snowflower]

 

I now realize that everything I was working for is nothing without my husband to help me enjoy it. I was doing this for us, he just saw it as an interference between us. When the affair started, he told the OW that he was in a marriage that was unhappy and falling apart, that I no longer wanted to be married. He justified it saying that it was both of us that wanted out. Only problem was, I ddn't feel that way, he had placed those thoughts in his own mind.

 

 

Molley, I hope you aren't taking the blame for you husband's affair!

 

Again, several things in your story here resonate with me. Sometimes you don't see the problems in your marriage until you reach a crisis point. I know this has been the case with my H and me as we have worked through his A and are rebuilding our marriage. But, no matter what, your H just made things worse by getting involved with someone else.

 

Thinking about what you have posted here and what taylor said in her previous post makes me reconsider my earlier advice to you. It sounds like you really want to save your marriage. If this is the case, I think you should put any plans on hold about moving away from where you live now. I think your marriage might be too weak at this point to withstand that, based on what you are posting here. Also, you mentioned that you have friends there and a support network which will be important to you as you go forward no matter what happens.

 

I could be wrong, but something tells me that your husband is not completely disconnected from you. I don't want to plant false hope but I am just thinking back on my own situation and my own husband's behavior which sounds quite similar. And since you genuinely seem to want to save your marriage, then perhaps it would be best to wait awhile and try in small ways to reconnect with your husband. You have mentioned things such as sex, doing things together, talking and communicating with each other which seem so positive to me.

 

I'm not comparing my situation to yours, but even at the very worst moments when my husband was telling me some of the hardest things to hear (about wanting a divorce, he was pretty sure our marriage was over), I actually thought it was a good thing. Everyone thought it was incredibly cruel of him to say those things to me, even my IC was aghast because he was treating me like a neutral 3rd party, but I thought of his painful conversations with me as one of the strongest connections we had left between us at that lowest point in our marriage. It was like my H was still reaching out to me emotionally even at our worst point.

 

So, when I read your situation and the fact that your husband is still trying to TALK to you about things, even painful things about your marriage, I think that this is a hopeful sign. I still don't think he should be talking to you about his feelings for the OW though-but the fact that he is still trying to talk to you about issues in your marriage could be a good thing-that he hasn't given up all hope.

 

I recommend a good MC and fast! Especially if your husband is willing to go.

[Molley]

Thanks Snowflower - yes i'm still in it :-) I set up my IC appt for tomorrow with a MFT and I noticed that my H did the same thing (saw it on his cell record.) Right now, we're doing the IC sessions. I hope we'll be able to get back into MC soon. Should IC and MC sessions be conducted by the same therapist? Does it matter?

 

And yes, you are right, even hearing the worst things from my H, still helps me to connect with him. I did tell him Sat morning that I no longer wanted to here the intimate details about him and the OW... that it was too painful. It happened, it's out there. That's all I need to know, now I need to learn how to deal with the pain with the help of my ic.

 

I just hope that when he goes to IC, it goes well and they examine why he actually had the affair, unlike the MC we had together, where the couselor basically said he needed to have an adventure, be single (didn't he just have an adventure... the A?) she made this determination after 2 sessions and not really asking him any questions about our marriage, about why he had the affair, etc.

[Snowflower]

Thanks Snowflower - yes i'm still in it :-) I set up my IC appt for tomorrow with a MFT and I noticed that my H did the same thing (saw it on his cell record.) Right now, we're doing the IC sessions. I hope we'll be able to get back into MC soon. Should IC and MC sessions be conducted by the same therapist? Does it matter?

 

And yes, you are right, even hearing the worst things from my H, still helps me to connect with him. I did tell him Sat morning that I no longer wanted to here the intimate details about him and the OW... that it was too painful. It happened, it's out there. That's all I need to know, now I need to learn how to deal with the pain with the help of my ic.

 

I just hope that when he goes to IC, it goes well and they examine why he actually had the affair, unlike the MC we had together, where the couselor basically said he needed to have an adventure, be single (didn't he just have an adventure... the A?) she made this determination after 2 sessions and not really asking him any questions about our marriage, about why he had the affair, etc.

 

I think this would be a question for your IC when you go tomorrow. I know our MC would not see us in individual counseling (except at the very beginning when we each "told our stories") because she felt it was too difficult to give an unbiased opinion and/or make sure that things that were brought up in IC were okay to bring up in MC--kind of like protecting the privacy/confidentiality for each of us.

 

Other posters might be able to comment on finding a good MC--I think you will need one that is skilled in helping couples deal with infidelity. This might be another question to ask your IC he/she should be able to give you guidance with this.

 

Is your husband interested in MC?

[Molley]

He was interested in MC when we went those 2 times. however right now he told me he would like to do some IC. I actually can't remember what he said about MC, we'll need to discuss it. it's something that we need, but may want to wait for at least a week, let him go to an IC session.

[Molley]

well, yet another set back this evening. He came home, no longer is wearing his wedding band... gave me a lame excuse as to why. We had a good dinner together and then I went upstairs to read because I'm still not feeling all that well, I did say that he's welcome to join me. He came upstairs and we both sat and read for a while until he said that he was going to bed. And then we started talking... I asked him why he was sleeping down stairs and he said that right now he feels its best, lets us both sleep, which we need. Also he feels that by sleeping with me,it leads to sex and then after that he feels guilty because he feels that he's leading me on. Ok... so that's not true, during these last few weeks, our sex was seldom started in the BED.

 

Then I asked him if he's had any contact with the OW. And he said no, then I asked again and he said an email last week. She sent him an email asking about a very specific AF situation. Said there wasn't anything else about it. So, that got me going.... I very calmy explained that he had promised me no contact with her and that really what he needs to do is write a letter to her explaining it and I will send it (I just found out about this.) Well, he basically told me that he didn't want to do that, that this was nothing, that he's been feeling better these last couple weeks and there's no harm with the one email that she sent. I tried to explain that any contact is a breach and that it hurts me that they continue communication. Then I asked if he was ok with causing me pain, his anwer was no.... but that's all he said. Then he became extremely defensive saying that he's done everything I've asked, no contact, reading books, counseling... and it still doesn't seem good enough. Well, I did ask him to try R with me, but right now that's not working... he's going to IC in order to figure out why he's wanting to be alone, but doesn't want MC at this point, says he needs to work on himself first.

 

I have a weird feeling something else is going on with him and the OW. His defensive stance and back peddling seemed like he was lying in addition to the fact that he doesn't want to send the NC letter.

 

He also repeated to me that he really would like to be alone, not in a relationship... wants his freedom, that's what he's feeling right now. I said that if that's what he really wants, if he wants out of the marriage then we'll do that. I don't want him if he doesn't want to be in this 100%.

 

Somehow, I don't seem all that upset about this, almost like I'm a 3rd party looking down at this mess. I do want it to work out, however, for the first time since this nightmare started, I have a feeling it's not going to turn out with us being a happy couple.

 

I did tell him that I have no expectations at this point, tha I"m going day by day, not sure how things will turn out and how I'll end up feeling about this marriage. AND right now, I'm not feeling much, not even pain. Nothing. Maybe because I'm sleep deprived. Anyway, we didn't end it on a good note, he's back in the guest room... he just didn't want to talk and was very defensive.... but kept insisting that there's nothing going on with the OW.

[Snowflower]

Wow, Molley. Again, I'm so sorry you have to go through this. About 6 months ago I would have felt like I could have written your posts myself! Our situations are/were that similar!

 

Mine also came home a few times not wearing his wedding ring with lame excuses both times. Did you ask your H why he wasn't wearing his? Did he ever put his ring back on?

 

I agree that there might be more that he is not telling. FWIW, when my H acted like this last year I also didn't understand what was going on. He kept saying our marriage was over but then would still try to "connect" with me. Sometimes my H would almost insist that he and I connect somehow--he would ignore me in the morning before work but then be calling me or emailing me all morning practically insisting that we go to lunch together! It was the weirdest thing--and I didn't find out about the A until the very end so I was really confused!

 

I don't know if it is the OW that is causing all this "weirdness" with your H--but it is possible that he is still talking to her even if it is by phone/email and it might be work related rather than personal. He should have told you about the email--even if it was just "business."

 

Stay strong, Molley. If you ever want to chat off LS-via email, let me know. I don't know if this forum has PM capability-I haven't seen it. Does anyone here know?

[pkn06002]

Molly,

Your husband is doing a lot of the same things I did, short of the long is he wants to go. But fear of the unknown is keeping him in place. He has looked into what divorce would take and does not like the outcome. But he has a lot of built up resentment towards you. I no longer wear my wedding ring, just like he is not. Why because I don't feel like I am married or want to be. Why have a symbol of something out there when it is not the impression you want to give to the world, since that is not what you feel.

 

From what you are posting you need to determine what you want. Because you are flopping between two outcomes based on his actions. Well tell you what he does not know which way he will end up going. But you need to give him clear indications as to what you want. Not this wishy washy stuff your doing. Because you will just end up in a limbo that is hell that way.

 

Once you have a path that you want, he will either come along or go his own way. But you have to decide where you want to be. My wife did what you are doing and it has not been a good thing.

 

PS.

You posted a while back why he did not just come to you with his concerns instead of cheating. Multiple answers for that one. The biggest one is he did not feel safe enough to do so.

[taylor]

well, yet another set back this evening. He came home, no longer is wearing his wedding band... gave me a lame excuse as to why. We had a good dinner together and then I went upstairs to read because I'm still not feeling all that well, I did say that he's welcome to join me. He came upstairs and we both sat and read for a while until he said that he was going to bed. And then we started talking... I asked him why he was sleeping down stairs and he said that right now he feels its best, lets us both sleep, which we need. Also he feels that by sleeping with me,it leads to sex and then after that he feels guilty because he feels that he's leading me on. Ok... so that's not true, during these last few weeks, our sex was seldom started in the BED.

 

Molley,

 

My husband and I went thru this exact same scenario..only it was me who wanted to sleep separate from him (I was the one who had the EA). For the first 3 months post D-day I wanted to sleep on the couch. I hated when he tried to coax me to come to bed with him. Why?

 

Because I knew if we went to bed it would lead to sex. He was hungry for reassurance that I loved him and sex was the way he wanted me to give him that reassurance. If we had sex, it assured him that everything was going to be OK. If we had sex, it gave him hope that our relationship would get back on track. He wanted that information communicated through sex.

 

But the thing is at that point in time...the first 3 months after D-day...I truly did not know if I still loved my husband or if I even wanted to feel that way about him again. I had checked out of my marriage about 10 months earlier and had "checked in" with another man. All of my feelings for the other man were front and center...and so strong...that feelings for my husband were nearly non-existent.

 

Every time we had sex during this time I felt like I was telling him yet another lie. I was giving him a false sense of assurance that I still loved him..because I was not feeling it at the time. Like your husband, I felt like I was leading him on.

 

Having sex also had a calming effect on my husband. It gave him sense of hope that all was right with the world..or was going to be alright. That I was coming back to him again. But this was not true. I didn't want to give him this false sense of security because it truly did not exist at that time. I was so confused inside that I had no idea what the future was going to hold for either one of us. I didn't want to sleep with him to give him that hope.

 

And the third reason I didn't want to sleep with him...and perhaps the hardest one for a BS to hear is...sometimes when my husband and I did have sex, I was imagining having sex with the OM. Physically I was having sex with my husband but emotionally I was having sex with the OM. I closed my eyes and imagined it was the OM touching me and me touching the OM. When all was said and done and my husband would lay next to me, gazing lovingly into my eyes, it filled me with unbearable GUILT. Several times I cried after having sex with him because the feeling of guilt was so overwhelming.

 

This was the start of a long period of self-hate..hating myself for what I had done to my husband and to our marriage. I told my husband many times over that I couldn't have sex with him because I didn't deserve to be loved by him..I didn't deserve his love.

 

And it was true. I didn't deserve his love...not as long as the OM was still in my heart and as long as I couldn't return love to my husband.

 

So I understand completely your husband's desire to sleep in the guest room.

 

Your husband desperately needs IC, as did I.

 

The OW, regardless of whether or not you talk about her, will come between the two of you for awhile, as he continues to process the affair and his feelings.

 

There is alot said about the chemical reactions in the brain when a person "falls in love." That "high" feeling..and the "longing" will not start to dissipate until the brain can clear the chemicals, like dopamine, that trigger that high. In my case, it took about 6 to 8 months. Everyone is different.

 

Molley, I hope you know I am not sharing this with you to add to your despair, but to perhaps give you a little insight into what is going on inside your husband. The more knowledge you have, the less confusion.

[Molley]

He has not put is ring back on, at least not as of last night. When I asked him about it, he said it was because on Fri he was out on the flight line (You can't wear any jewlery on the flight line because it's dangerous. He puts his ring on his watch band, and that's where it has stayed. ) and that he's just not put it back on because he's used to wearing it on his watch band, said he hadn't thought about it.

 

Snowflower... thanks, would love to talk via email of LS, but not sure how to do that. I'm starting to think people are getting tired of my posts... whining all the time.

 

First thing this morning, after he gets to work, sends me an email asking if I would want to go golfing Thurs when he gets home from work (there's a special event happening were we live.) Then sends me additional emails about GI benefits for me to go back to school and learn a new career, instead of finding a new job.

 

PKN - thanks, although your message was difficult to read.

I think I'm being pretty clear regarding what i want, my marriage to work... however, I can't allow him to just trample over me, he needs to understand that I also can make the call to walk away from all of this at anytime. I'm not something he can toss around however he wants. I've made it very clear that I love him and I'm willing to work through all of this. yet, he hasn't stepped forward to accept it.

 

I know he wants to go, but is fearful of that, I'm not going to hold his hand and make it all better if he decides to abandon the marriage, he'll have to take those steps on his own. I'm going to have enough to deal with.

 

Maybe he didn't feel safe enough to come to me before the affair. I'm not so sure, we have been each others best friends for the last 18 years, I find it difficult to believe he didn't feel safe... but I need to process through that. I think it was because he didn't want confrontation, hates to feel uncomfortable and retreats when confronted about personal matters at home.

 

Well, off to IC.

[Snowflower]

Another thought about the sex issue based on what happened in my situation...

 

There was about a one month period of time before my H confessed his affair where he slept in another part of the house and didn't have sex with me. Again, this sounds similar to what has been posted here.

 

At the time, my husband told me that he "didn't want to lead me on" (sound familiar?) but ALSO told me that sex was "too emotional" and that he couldn't handle being that closely connected emotionally to me by having sex.

 

At the time, I was so confused by what was going on but I knew his refusal to have sex with me was a bad sign for our marriage. My husband had always placed a high priority on sex previously. After he confessed his A, it made a lot more sense.

 

We have since talked about this (as we have everything) and my H said the GUILT eventually made it impossible to connect that way with me anymore. In my case, it had already been several months since his PA but the guilt actually increased for my H as time went on.

[taylor]

Molly,

Your husband is doing a lot of the same things I did, short of the long is he wants to go. But fear of the unknown is keeping him in place. He has looked into what divorce would take and does not like the outcome. But he has a lot of built up resentment towards you. I no longer wear my wedding ring, just like he is not. Why because I don't feel like I am married or want to be. Why have a symbol of something out there when it is not the impression you want to give to the world, since that is not what you feel.

 

From what you are posting you need to determine what you want. Because you are flopping between two outcomes based on his actions. Well tell you what he does not know which way he will end up going. But you need to give him clear indications as to what you want. Not this wishy washy stuff your doing. Because you will just end up in a limbo that is hell that way.

 

Once you have a path that you want, he will either come along or go his own way. But you have to decide where you want to be. My wife did what you are doing and it has not been a good thing.

 

PS.

You posted a while back why he did not just come to you with his concerns instead of cheating. Multiple answers for that one. The biggest one is he did not feel safe enough to do so.

 

PKN,

 

I think what you say here is spot on. You provide Molley with tremendous insight because you are a man and you were in her husband's shoes.

 

I do believe her husband does want to go..he does want to be single...he wants that freedom. That IS his thinking at the moment.

 

But, even though he feels that way at the moment, what is the reality? Surely he is considering that, as well as the feelings and urges that are compelling him to walk out the front door.

 

Does he want to give up a long term relationship and all that he knows for something "out there"...the unknown?

 

Could he or would he be happy with what's "out there." He knows there are no guarantees.

 

Could he live with himself if he left Molley to run after something that he thought might bring him happiness? What if down the road he realized it wasn't worth it..it wasn't what he thought it would be. What if he realized it was all an illusion? What if he realized he deluded himself? Could he live with the "fool" he chose to become?

 

Is he a risk taker? Is he brave enough to take that gamble?

 

Surely his affair was like being at a lush oasis while his home life is like being in a barren desert. Who would want to return to the desert when you know you can quench your thirst as the oasis? This is exactly what I asked myself for months after D-day.

 

But the thing is, how real is that oasis? He's only known the OW a few weeks. Surely, no guarantees there. And if not the OW, can he be sure he would find another oasis that would bring him the kind of happiness he is looking for. Does it exist?

 

And what about the "barren desert"? Is there any possible way to find any kind of happiness there? Is there a way to fix the marriage so that it can become a breeding ground for the happiness he longs for? Is he willing to do the work to build a new marriage with his wife? Can he set aside the resentment and work on the issues? Does he trust his wife enough to do the same? Does he have any hope whatsoever left that his marriage is salvageable?

 

THese are all questions he needs to explore in IC. He has a LONG way to go.

 

For Molley, the biggest question is whether she is willing to wait for him to find these answers. It does mean relinquishing some control. Is she willing to do this.

 

Many BS, and some MC's, will tell other BS to take charge of the situation...take control...force the WS to make a decision NOW...pee or get off the pot.

 

But the thing is it is SO early post D-Day that this husband can't make any life-altering decisions with a clear head. His head is filled with an OW whom he has only known for a few weeks...hardly a solid foundation to put anything on...let alone your entire future.

 

BS...those who want to save their marriages...are put in awfully unfair positions. They are left hanging for weeks and months while their WS try to come back to their senses. But if this is the goal...to salvage the marriage...it's a necessary step.

 

Time will tell all.

 

She will either get fed up with is fence-sitting and decide she would rather make a clean cut and move on...or she will give him time to clear his head and make a decision which may or may not be what she wants to hear.

[taylor]

well, yet another set back this evening. He came home, no longer is wearing his wedding band... gave me a lame excuse as to why. I asked him why he was sleeping down stairs and he said that right now he feels its best, lets us both sleep, which we need. Also he feels that by sleeping with me,it leads to sex and then after that he feels guilty because he feels that he's leading me on. Ok... so that's not true, during these last few weeks, our sex was seldom started in the BED.

 

Then I asked him if he's had any contact with the OW. And he said no, then I asked again and he said an email last week. She sent him an email asking about a very specific AF situation. Said there wasn't anything else about it. So, that got me going.... I very calmy explained that he had promised me no contact with her and that really what he needs to do is write a letter to her explaining it and I will send it (I just found out about this.) Well, he basically told me that he didn't want to do that, that this was nothing, that he's been feeling better these last couple weeks and there's no harm with the one email that she sent. I tried to explain that any contact is a breach and that it hurts me that they continue communication. Then I asked if he was ok with causing me pain, his anwer was no.... but that's all he said. Then he became extremely defensive saying that he's done everything I've asked, no contact, reading books, counseling... and it still doesn't seem good enough. Well, I did ask him to try R with me, but right now that's not working... he's going to IC in order to figure out why he's wanting to be alone, but doesn't want MC at this point, says he needs to work on himself first.

 

I have a weird feeling something else is going on with him and the OW. His defensive stance and back peddling seemed like he was lying in addition to the fact that he doesn't want to send the NC letter.

 

He also repeated to me that he really would like to be alone, not in a relationship... wants his freedom, that's what he's feeling right now. I said that if that's what he really wants, if he wants out of the marriage then we'll do that.

 

From what you have written here, it is obvious he is telling you he wants out. You are reading him correctly, Molley.

 

If you suspect things aren't over with the OW, they probably aren't. The e-mail from the OW was not "nothing." It was contact. That means he starts all over again with withdrawal.

 

The fact that he does not want to send her an NC letter tells you he is not committed to ending his relationship with her forever. And he is continuing to lie to you, denying the contact. And he is back sleeping in the guest room...meaning she is the one on his mind..not you.

 

Nor is he showing any real signs of recommitting to you. Not putting his ring back on his finger, especially now when you most need that reassurance of his commitment, is very telling. NOT wearing his ring is very symbolic...just as symbolic as wearing a ring.

 

Also, his desire to not attend MC, is also very telling. It tells you he is not ready to recommit to the marriage. If he is not ready to recommit, MC will be worthless as a tool for marital recovery.

 

Some folks use MC to help them explore the other option...divorce.

 

But I don't think he is ready to make that decision, either.

 

I think it is vital he works thru all of these issues in IC. Again, it's going to take time, if you are willing to give him that. Even if you give him the time, it still does not mean it will end with your desired outcome.

 

But don't sit back and just wait for him. Like PKN said, he needs to know what your expecations are, loud and clear. Set the bar high because he will use IC to determine if he can meet these expectations. It's going to take alot more than reading a few books and attending a few IC sessions for him to show recommitment to you.

 

If he truly wants the recommitment, he will put the ring back on his finger, write a bold NC letter to the OW telling her he is recommitting to his marriage and wants no contact, get back in bed with you, and start building trust...no lies, no back-pedaling.

 

The most important thing you need to make him understand right now is what you say below, which I have bolded:

 

I don't want him if he doesn't want to be in this 100%.

 

Simply said, this is the bottom line.

[pkn06002]

Molly, I want to make sure you understand I am not trying to hurt your feelings. I am just stating my view of what your husband is doing based on how I felt (still feel) when going through the same motions.

 

Because here is the thing, you are both taking cues from each other with no one really taking a lead. At this point one of you has to take that lead if you want the marriage to continue. My wife left it up to me and I did not want to even be in the marriage. So we are in a state that I don't want anyone else to go into. If I was your husband I would assume you were looking to leave as well and so would be preparing for that. Your actions towards him have to be clear that you want to work on it, even if in the background you are preparing for something else. Because from what you have posted I would not say you are stating clearly you want the marriage to work.

 

Once you state your expectations you need to make him feel safe enough to tell you what is on his mind without judging and being critical. If you can't do that without getting defensive forget talking since it will be useless.

 

I know people differ on this but be careful with ultimatums. I know when I was in the state your husband is at if my wife would told me she wanted to send the letter I would told her piss off. Now if she would've asked as something she felt she needed to do to get past the affair and to decided if we continued or not I would've supported that. (As it was I needed to send a letter like that for myself to move on). Realize there is a difference between demanding and asking/compromising. I know I work well with asking/compromise but demands not so much.

 

On the letter I never have understood the whole thing. The WS writes a letter the BS has to approve, what is the point then. The BS should just write the letter themselves since that is the only thing they will approve. My xOW sent me a letter like that then promptly sent me another saying that was not how she felt. So to me that is a very empty notion.

 

The ring leave that issue for now. Come back to it later. Because if you force him to wear it as a symbol to you but he does not want it, it will be off his finger once he leaves that house. He will start to resent the fact he is forced to wear it to make you happy. Everyone of those resentments will not help your cause. He has to want to wear it to make you happy. Again a small difference but an important one.

 

One other thing.

Once the thoughts of the OW are gone this is far from finished. Because then he will deal with the issues between the two of you. That is a much harder thing to deal with than getting over the OW. Men do not deal with emotion thing well and resentment for men is a very hard thing to get over, regardless if you are in the wrong or not.

[Molley]

Taylor, PKN and Snowflower... again thanks for your honesty. Though it is difficult to read, its all true.

 

PKN, you're right (yet again...;-) ) I know you're not trying to hurt my feelings, you're just telling me like it is. I'm a big girl (actually pretty svelt right now thanks to the Affair Diet that I'm on.) I do need to stop flopping and stand firm regarding what I want. One of us has to be the grown up in this mess and I think it's got to be me right now, until he gets himself straigtened. So, I wrote it all down in an email, what I want out of all of this, why I want it and why i'm committed. I then said that I know there are no promises and we don't know how it will turn out. But that I wanted him to know my stance. Then I sent it to him. It's not a pathetic, begging letter, it's a true honest letter regarding how I feel and what I want. He read it and responded, making a little joke about a funny I added into the letter. I'm not expecting any type of reaction one way or another from him regarding the letter, I just needed him to know that what I've been saying and doing these last few days, were not how I wanted things to come out for us (moving to Little Rock, divorse, etc.) Since sending that letter, I feel pretty calm and collected, something that I was not before writing it all down.

 

So thanks so much for opening my eyes to that issue.

 

And Taylor and Sunflower, your posts back to me are actually giving me a little bit of encouragement because although things seemed bleak for you, it did work out and your marriages are on the mend. I really don't know how long I can just stay in a waiting/holding pattern at this point, my IC said only I would be able to know when to say enough. But, right now I'm holding and I'm going to also take this time to go to my IC sessions and work on my own issues (we've all got them) and also figure out what I need to do about my work life.

[pkn06002]

Molly good job!

[Molley]

Anothe thing I just realized, last night, I said that the way my H was acting made me suspect that there's something else going on with the OW... well after reading through your posts a few times and going over what PKN said... I have a feeling he was acting that way because I was pushing him, giving him and ultimatium about NC when he already did the NC and this was the OW contacting him, this on top of grilling him about his ring and sleeping down stairs. I'm just going to cool it for now, forget the ring thing, and I'll need to figure out the whole NC email thing. It bothers me that they are staying in contact through email, even if it's seldom... it could start back up to being more again. So, I'll need to keep tabs on it.

[pkn06002]

He does need to go NC with her to truly move along. I could now work with my OW, I would be civil but not friendly. But it has taken me months to get to his point. Even now it would be less than desirable to work with her again.

 

Does his job require him to have contact with her? If so you are for a difficult time. Since unlike a "normal" job he cannot just up and quit the military.

 

Here is the thing you cannot force him to not talk to her. Yes I know some BS's will tell you "yes you can", but what is the point of forced reconciliation. He has to want to stay with you for it to mean anything.

 

But is sounds like you have a plan.

[Snowflower]

Hi Molley, I think I figured out the PM thing...I couldn't PM you for some reason but you can PM me by clicking on my name "snowflower" by any of my posts, if you are interested.

 

I found that I had to do a tightrope balancing act with my H when he was so undecided. I had to appear to be moving on but not too much so or I was afraid he would think I was uninterested or had given up. Caring but not smothering. Wanting to save our marriage while not appearing pushy. I had to be the supreme actress which was exhausting.

 

I'm glad pkn and taylor can give you the WS perspective. I can sympathize with you since I was also a BS. I wish I had found LS when I was going through what you are going through now. I hope it is at least giving you a place to vent!

[Molley]

no, his job doesn't require them to be in contact. he works with airplanes she's in the AF Band... so she really didn't need to contact him, I think she was fishing to see what reaction she would get. I know he's got to go NC completely, but also agree that I can force him, if I do I get the reaction I got last night. I know this is not good, but as I had said, not pushing it right now. I've got my plan.

 

Thanks SF... I'll ping you. It really is great to have opinions from both sides... and realize that what I'm going through really isn't all that different, guess there is a pattern to all this madness.