It's all over

[Owl]

KG, one thing I hope you walk away from this with is a better understanding of HOW this happened.

 

You can't help who you're attracted to...I'll grant you that.

 

But...you CAN help whether or not you feed that attraction. Whether you let that relationship grow into more than attraction, or if you deliberately prevent it from doing so.

 

THAT is/was in your power to control.

 

You chose to let it grow. You chose to continue to invest more and more into the relationship...knowing he was married. That's what led you to where you're at today.

 

Own that. Don't act like it "just happened", because it didn't. Recognize it as a CHOICE...a bad one, to be sure, but still, a CHOICE for which you alone are responsible for making.

 

Recognize that, and realize it so that you don't make this same mistake in the future. Not just married men, but anyone who's "the wrong choice" for whatever reasons.

 

This is a critical first step towards dealing with things...this isn't an "accident", nor is it "all his fault".

 

Knowing that will keep you from getting back into this mess as well.

[boldjack]

K-girl, The end of a romance is a terrible, lonely thing. How it ended or why isn't important, healing yourself and soothing your spirit, is. Though we have had our differences, I have always thought you a fine, generous, intelligent person. My feelings and my sympathy are with you. Take care of yourself.

[lostsoulmate]

KG,

 

This is one of my favorite poems. Keep your head up... remember to eat something. Sending peace, hope and brightness your way!!

 

Have You Ever...

Have you ever cried at night,

Thinking it was bad,

Have you ever lost a love,

The only thing you ever had,

Have you ever screamed out loud,

From pain that you have felt,

Have you ever stopped and looked,

At pain that you have dealt,

Have you ever questioned someone,

Of love and if its true,

Have you ever really wondered,

If they truly feel for you,

Have you ever felt abused,

Or worried while you wait,

Have you ever made a big huge deal,

Over someone being late,

Have you ever had them leave,

And watched them walk away,

Have you ever thought of leaving,

But could only sit and stay,

Have you ever hurt someone,

And looked at what you’ve done,

Have you ever been the one that’s hurt,

And thought that you were the only one,

Have you ever loved another,

And never told them so,

Have you ever tried to tell them,

But didn’t know how it would go,

Have you ever been alone,

Where no one else could see,

So you sat at home remaining unknown,

having nowhere else to be.

I’ve felt this way before,

I’ve felt and dealt it all,

I’ve even lied,

I’ve even cried,

I’ve even felt the fall.

But nothing makes it better,

The Guilt or the Pain I feel,

I wish it all would go away,

I wish it wasn’t real,

But that is not the case,

And it could never be,

It took me too long to open up,

And took me way too long to see, I must;

Own up to mistakes I’ve made,

Get past the pains I’ve felt,

Wipe away the tears that are in my eyes,

And reflect on the tears I’ve dealt,

And Tell someone when I love them,

Before they go away,

And maybe if I word it right,

They just might want to stay.

By Dennis Mayer

[wildsoul]

(((KG)))

 

I'm sorry you're hurting. Reading your posts makes empathetic sadness well up for me. You of all people know, that healing the grief is a process, one that eventually you will pass through.

 

For now, it's not a time to analyse.

Don't try to figure out his every word uttered during the breakup.

Don't try to make sense of the last 4 years.

 

It's also not a time for action. Calling his wife will only make them feel worse, it won't make you feel BETTER.

 

And while I agree with Owl about looking at your patters so you can learn from them, the time for that isn't TODAY.

 

Now is the time for warm blankets pulled up high over your head.

 

Now is the time for ice cream, wine, carbs--whatever your medication of choice.

 

Now is the time to stock up on kleenex and DVD's.

 

Now *might* be the time to reflect on how the Jews were liberated from slavery and how YOU TOO are liberated today. That was not a bloodless battle. Neither was yours. But you can claim today as a marker on the path of your spiritual destiny, whether you choose to join in on your family's holiday gathering or not.

 

Now is the time to be gentle with yourself.

 

We're here for you!

[Dexter Morgan]

And to Dexter...you dont choose who you fall for. I didnt "pick" MM because he was in proximity, for god's sake. He was my married boss when i met him- not exactly an ideal basis for a relationship. It just happened.

 

So if I find some married coworker dreamy, and its love at first site, and I fall for her.....she is fair game eh? Ripe for the pickins just because I can't "choose who I fall for"??

[KismetGirl]

So if I find some married coworker dreamy, and its love at first site, and I fall for her.....she is fair game eh? Ripe for the pickins just because I can't "choose who I fall for"??

 

No, you would not need to act on those feelings, because you can control your actions. You cannot control your feelings, no matter what you say. They come and go as they please, just like you can't really control which thoughts pass through your head, simply the ones that you choose to share with others. I simply replied to your implication that one can control who one falls for, which they cannot. Emotions have no rationality. Only actions do.

 

Now, not to be rude, but this isn't the time or place for your tough love stuff, ok? Im feeling pretty badly, and while you feel it helps some people, I will tell you right now it does not help me in the manner with which you choose to give your opinion. As a matter of fact, it makes me angry and defensive, and not really want to listen to anything you have to say.

 

You are entitled to it, but I would ask that you please refrain from commenting on my thread if you've got nothing nice to say, at least for a few days, because I really can't deal with it right now. Ok? Tha affair is over, Im not telling his wife, end of story. Ive never hooked up with another MM in my life but this one, and I certainly didnt intend for it to go this way when I first met him. That's it. Fin. Thanks.

[Dexter Morgan]

No, you would not need to act on those feelings, because you can control your actions. You cannot control your feelings, no matter what you say.

 

Sure I can. the very FACT that someone I "could" fall for is married keeps me from falling for them.

 

there are tons of married women out there that I am probably completely compatible with and I "could" fall for,...but I don't because...well...uh...gee..........they are married.

[KismetGirl]

Sure I can. the very FACT that someone I "could" fall for is married keeps me from falling for them.

 

there are tons of married women out there that I am probably completely compatible with and I "could" fall for,...but I don't because...well...uh...gee..........they are married.

 

I give up. There is a difference between attraction and falling for someone. He and I worked together every single day in close proximity, and the attraction grew into other feelings. But really, I give up, I will never convince you otherwise. Your experiences are your own, my experiences are my own, we are two different people. Im sorry for your past experiences, I hope you were not always this mean and bitter.

 

This conversation is over Dexter, unless you have something releveant to the thread to post. and relevant to the thread means helping me get past this depressing time. Everyone else feel free to post. Thanks. Bye.

[fooled once]

Kis *hug* I am very sorry you are hurting, but I am very glad he ended it, because I don't think you ever would have. I am glad he did it so now you can mourn it and then get on with your life.

 

You will never really know what goes on in their marriage. You can surmise and you can guess. I guarantee you, he never told you the honest to God truth. I mean, what kind of man does that "Hey, my wife is gorgeous, my best friend, the best sex ever and I love everything about her. Do you want to get involved with me?" Hell no, these MM and MW play on your heart, tell you how mean their spouse is, how they with hold sex, how they never want sex, how they don't really love their spouse but stay for the kids/the finances/family/work/appearances -- whatever the excuse is. They are LIARS, period.

 

I know you are hurting, and I am sorry for that, but I am also glad that you are hurting because it shows that you did love him and that you are a caring person.

 

I don't see any good in running to tell his wife. Why? She didn't cheat. She didn't do anything to make her husband cheat on her. Leave her alone and let her live her life. She knows enough and she is hurting. But she doesn't deserve to have you come to her and spill everything. She will in her own time realize what a lying **** her husband is.

 

Please don't let him back into your life. Please don't send him any emails. Write them and then delete them. Write them and save them -- and in a year, when you are healed and dating someone else, you can go back and read it and then delete it. Writing is healing, but honestly, he isn't going to care what you say; he isn't going to hear you and he definitely isn't going to "get anything" from what you say. He made a decision to end his affair with you.

 

And think about it --- how often did you see him? Weekly? For how long? What was the longest time you ever spent with him? You two couldn't go on dates in public. You two could rarely talk. Honestly, you only saw what you wanted to see with him; you didn't really KNOW him. How could you? You didn't spent a lot of quality time with him. It was more romantic/adventure type of relationship. Sneaking around, butterflies, forbidden feelings.

 

Now is the time to evaluate why you allowed yourself to be treated this way for 4 years. Why you allowed him to sweet talk his way back into your life after dumping you a couple of times. Why you didn't think enough of yourself to DEMAND more. Why you accepted crumbs.

 

<comfort>

 

I am truly sorry you are hurting but you WILL get through this. You will survive it. Give yourself time to grieve it. But give yourself a deadline on how long you are going to allow this to be all consuming to you. I can tell you from personal experience, I think back to my 'mistake' and realize how much I missed from my life by waiting for the phone call, waiting for the visit and how much all of it affected my life negatively. That is time I will never get back; especially the time with my son (who was 6 at the time).

 

I am so glad my son doesn't remember him nor remember how his mother was not there for him; how I use to come home from work and just crawl into bed and want to stay there as I moped around because I hadn't heard from my MM.

 

Make the deadline the sadness and then when it is here, MAKE yourself stop wondering/obsessing/etc over him and what he is doing, if he is missing you, etc.

 

And make yourself get out there into the world. Not necessarily to date, but to go out with friends, to ENJOY life.

 

As cliche as it is, we only have 1 life to live --- live it and don't ever wish away time.

 

I wish you happiness and I hope that you can figure out why you allowed this creep into your life, why you let him stay and why you didn't take a stand and allow him to treat you the way he did. And PLEASE do not ever take him back -- EVER. Get rid of him from your place (as in items he gave you, pictures, etc) and get him out of your head and heart.

[BlueEyedGirl]

I would really tell his wife. If I was the wife, I would prefer to know rather than be deceived for years. She might be a nice woman and is wasting he life away with that *********. It will also benefit you because you will feel like you have some power in the situation and it is not MM call all the shots. All his secret e-mail business makes me think that there were other women too - his wife could get STDs. The best thing to do is bust the bastard and let chips fall where they may.

[Athena]

Kismet, I think that since you Loved him, you should let him exit gracefully, and try to let him go as fully as possible. Do not write him any emails, or texts. Do not phone him. And do not tell his wife. That would be you betraying his trust.

I hope his wife finds out, but I don't think its fair that you tell her. You still have to live in accordance with your own integrity. If you ever loved him, let him be.

 

You wouldn't have told his W during the time of your affair with him, so you shouldn't tell his W just because he chose her over you.

[BlueEyedGirl]

The problem is that this way he can still atemmpt to come back. And really going back to him after this is

 

Why should she care about betraying his trust when he so clearly betrayed hers. Exiting gracefully is another word for being a martyr.

 

With telling his wife it would most likely be over forever, but on you terms.

[Athena]

She should act in accordance with her own ethics, and THAT is why she should not betray the trust of someone she loved.

[Athena]

The problem is that this way he can still atemmpt to come back. And really going back to him after this is

But that's up to her whether or not she's learned anything about this whole affair -- and I would truly hope she will never take him back and continue with an affair and be available to him.

She's a smart girl. She can see what has happened, why would she repeat this situation?

 

Why should she care about betraying his trust when he so clearly betrayed hers.

I don't see how he betrayed her trust?! He said he was never going to leave his wife. He said that they would have to end the affair if his wife ever got close to finding out about them.

 

Exiting gracefully is another word for being a martyr.

No I said she should allow HIM to exit gracefully... she should let him go, not try to hook him back with an email, or drama with the wife and his M.

 

With telling his wife it would most likely be over forever, but on you terms.

Doing this would be taking revenge for no good reason.

She can learn from this, do the right thing, and move on.

[bentnotbroken]

It is so wrong for his wife to be the only without the knowledge to make decisions for her life. KG and MM have both made decisions that affect her and she has no honest say so without all the info.

[fooled once]

How did he betray Kismet's trust?

 

She went into this affair knowing full well he was married.

 

As for telling the wife, at this point, IMHO, to tell the wife NOW is more out of anger, hurt and the need to get back/get revenge.

 

If you weren't willing to tell DURING the affair (and you weren't you were thinking of ways to have him lie to her), then to tell her now would be done purely out of revenge.

 

Do I think the betrayed spouse should know? Absolutely, but not by the rejected other woman.

[BlueEyedGirl]

He did betray her tust. He told her that he tried out sex tricks learned from KG on his wife. IMHO that was cruel and unnecesseary. He also mentioned something about pictures of other women in his secret e-mail. I strongly feel that there are OOW involved. He dropped her like a hot potato in a very cruel and cold way when it suited him.

 

And wife needs to know ASAP. Doesn't matter who tells her, There is nothing worse than being deceived which I had my own taste of recently. WIfe needs to be able to make an informed decision.

[Athena]

and besides... Kismet, you are going to be a doctor. You have to have strong ethics, and especially not betray someone's confidentiality. Start that now.

[KismetGirl]

(((KG)))

 

I'm sorry you're hurting. Reading your posts makes empathetic sadness well up for me. You of all people know, that healing the grief is a process, one that eventually you will pass through.

 

For now, it's not a time to analyse.

Don't try to figure out his every word uttered during the breakup.

Don't try to make sense of the last 4 years.

 

It's also not a time for action. Calling his wife will only make them feel worse, it won't make you feel BETTER.

 

And while I agree with Owl about looking at your patters so you can learn from them, the time for that isn't TODAY.

 

Now is the time for warm blankets pulled up high over your head.

 

Now is the time for ice cream, wine, carbs--whatever your medication of choice.

 

Now is the time to stock up on kleenex and DVD's.

 

Now *might* be the time to reflect on how the Jews were liberated from slavery and how YOU TOO are liberated today. That was not a bloodless battle. Neither was yours. But you can claim today as a marker on the path of your spiritual destiny, whether you choose to join in on your family's holiday gathering or not.

 

Now is the time to be gentle with yourself.

 

We're here for you!

 

Thanks WS

 

I ended up having dinner with a girlfriend who drove by after work to see if I was ok. I couldnt bear being around alot of people tonight even though I love my family and felt bad missing out on the evening, I just needed to be with minimal people. Ive stopped crying which is a plus.

 

Im trying to stop thinking about this morning, stop replaying different things he's said , stop analysing the fact that his words are a constant confusing mismatch, his waffling behaviour, all it does is confuse me and make me upset. I can't just up and forget four years of knowing someone...but Im trying not to focus on all the details.

 

I wrote this long email but haven't sent it. Maybe I will at some point but I dont know if I want to. I dont suppose it matters, but we'll see. I've sent him crazier sounding emails in the past and he wasn't freaked out by them.

 

Im just trying to accept that this is how he gets when he gets guilty and he's decided this is the best decision for him now because he feels guilty for possibly ruining his family and upsetting them. Im trying not to be self-depracating like I was this morning. Truth be told, if his wife hadnt found that email last week he'd still be coming over like he always does, so if that's what being "in love" means to him, then I feel sorry for his wife....was tempted to tell her, but at this point its more out of anger at him, and really it wont make me feel better, it wont make her feel better, it wont make anyone feel better. If she wanted to know details, she could either email me or call me and demand to know the full truth. but she has chosen to only ask him, and go on that. He has denied it all, so if that's what she wants to believe, I'll let her have it, I guess.

 

I'm trying....

[KismetGirl]

and besides... Kismet, you are going to be a doctor. You have to have strong ethics, and especially not betray someone's confidentiality. Start that now.

 

Yeah...I already work in a hospital with patients and am bound by confidentiality there. It often leaves a bad taste in your mouth things you have to keep to yourself, but sometimes it must be done.

[ali0112]

Kismet, I've been a lurker for a year now, ever since my MM of almost four years decided to up and move all the way across the country without so much as a warning to me. It has taken me a full year to even begin to heal. But I have begun to! I have one question for you: if this guy shows up two weeks from now, or two months from now, will you fold and accept him back? After all the hurt he has caused you, will you take him back? Please don't say that you will!

[KismetGirl]

Kismet, I've been a lurker for a year now, ever since my MM of almost four years decided to up and move all the way across the country without so much as a warning to me. It has taken me a full year to even begin to heal. But I have begun to! I have one question for you: if this guy shows up two weeks from now, or two months from now, will you fold and accept him back? After all the hurt he has caused you, will you take him back? Please don't say that you will!

 

Don't even know how to answer that question right now. I think Im still in sad-mode...like I just lost something. Either way Im pretty convinced he won't come back on his own this time. I think, MAYBE, if down the road I was the one to make contact with him again he would relent and come back, MAYBE.....but overall I doubt it right now. I think after all the guilt I tried to make him feel about treating me like sh*t, I am not sure he'd have the balls to come back and ask me to do this again. I suppose crazier things have happened.

 

I want to be able to tell you "no", but right now I still feel like Im mourning ....i mean its been less than a day. I'll admit despite how much I want to hate him....right now I miss what it feels like when he hugs me and kisses me. I really do. I hope that goes away soon.

[KismetGirl]

Kis *hug* I am very sorry you are hurting, but I am very glad he ended it, because I don't think you ever would have. I am glad he did it so now you can mourn it and then get on with your life.

 

You will never really know what goes on in their marriage. You can surmise and you can guess. I guarantee you, he never told you the honest to God truth. I mean, what kind of man does that "Hey, my wife is gorgeous, my best friend, the best sex ever and I love everything about her. Do you want to get involved with me?" Hell no, these MM and MW play on your heart, tell you how mean their spouse is, how they with hold sex, how they never want sex, how they don't really love their spouse but stay for the kids/the finances/family/work/appearances -- whatever the excuse is. They are LIARS, period.

 

I know you are hurting, and I am sorry for that, but I am also glad that you are hurting because it shows that you did love him and that you are a caring person.

 

I don't see any good in running to tell his wife. Why? She didn't cheat. She didn't do anything to make her husband cheat on her. Leave her alone and let her live her life. She knows enough and she is hurting. But she doesn't deserve to have you come to her and spill everything. She will in her own time realize what a lying **** her husband is.

 

Please don't let him back into your life. Please don't send him any emails. Write them and then delete them. Write them and save them -- and in a year, when you are healed and dating someone else, you can go back and read it and then delete it. Writing is healing, but honestly, he isn't going to care what you say; he isn't going to hear you and he definitely isn't going to "get anything" from what you say. He made a decision to end his affair with you.

 

And think about it --- how often did you see him? Weekly? For how long? What was the longest time you ever spent with him? You two couldn't go on dates in public. You two could rarely talk. Honestly, you only saw what you wanted to see with him; you didn't really KNOW him. How could you? You didn't spent a lot of quality time with him. It was more romantic/adventure type of relationship. Sneaking around, butterflies, forbidden feelings.

 

Now is the time to evaluate why you allowed yourself to be treated this way for 4 years. Why you allowed him to sweet talk his way back into your life after dumping you a couple of times. Why you didn't think enough of yourself to DEMAND more. Why you accepted crumbs.

 

<comfort>

 

I am truly sorry you are hurting but you WILL get through this. You will survive it. Give yourself time to grieve it. But give yourself a deadline on how long you are going to allow this to be all consuming to you. I can tell you from personal experience, I think back to my 'mistake' and realize how much I missed from my life by waiting for the phone call, waiting for the visit and how much all of it affected my life negatively. That is time I will never get back; especially the time with my son (who was 6 at the time).

 

I am so glad my son doesn't remember him nor remember how his mother was not there for him; how I use to come home from work and just crawl into bed and want to stay there as I moped around because I hadn't heard from my MM.

 

Make the deadline the sadness and then when it is here, MAKE yourself stop wondering/obsessing/etc over him and what he is doing, if he is missing you, etc.

 

And make yourself get out there into the world. Not necessarily to date, but to go out with friends, to ENJOY life.

 

As cliche as it is, we only have 1 life to live --- live it and don't ever wish away time.

 

I wish you happiness and I hope that you can figure out why you allowed this creep into your life, why you let him stay and why you didn't take a stand and allow him to treat you the way he did. And PLEASE do not ever take him back -- EVER. Get rid of him from your place (as in items he gave you, pictures, etc) and get him out of your head and heart.

 

Youre right, it feels like wasted time, but I always said regret was a wasted emotion....can't change the past now, can only learn from it, I guess.

 

We didnt always have brief multi-weekly meetings. We used to see each other more, out in public, etc. It got alot less when he had more kids and moved two hours away from me. After that he was never in the city, we didnt work together anymore, etc

 

Of course I have no idea what transpires in their home, in their marriage. I can only surmise this or that, but it's a headache to try to understand, when in reality Im not sure he understands himself...so how can anyone else understand HIM? I ask him if he's in love how can he fathom hurting his wife over and over for so long. I said to him, I understand that people make mistakes, but four years ceases to be a mistake. Four years is long beyond the "oops"/one-night-stand mistake. I can even so much as push on a few months being a mistake, a result of a mid-life crisis (though he's been doing this since he was barely 29-30 with me...) , a result of a fight in the marriage, or any of a myriad of temporary problems at home. But it wasnt. I ask him if he's ever felt anything was missing from his life to make him do this so long, and he says he doesnt know. I tell him if I was in love with someone I would never in my right mind even WANT anyone else, and he doesn't follow. He says he is in love with his family, but that isn't really what I meant....love for your family is different entirely than the type of "in love" i was referring to but I see that , at this time in his life, his perception of love and responsibility for his family are intertwined. Happiness is being repsonsible for your family, perhaps, though I will always have trouble understanding how anyone can say they are in love with someone and then continue over and over for so long to do something to risk losing that which they claim to love. And its not like he got in trouble with her once....several times he's been caught in lies.

 

But it's not my problem now. His wife, I hope she's happy , I hope he's happy, I dont know. I dont wish ill-things on either of them. I hope their kids get to grow up with two happy parents. Sometimes I wish it could have turned out differently and he and I could have had a chance but that isn't in my destiny, perhaps. Dn't know what kismet has in store for me but Im trying to believe it is going to be ok.

[KismetGirl]

He did betray her tust. He told her that he tried out sex tricks learned from KG on his wife. IMHO that was cruel and unnecesseary. .

 

Yeah I could have probably done without that mental image. Essentially, all the fun and games we had in bed, which he never used to do with her (trust me, when Id suggest something new, his face lit up like a little kid), he apparently started suggesting it to her at home. I've read that in articles a ton of times.....ways to tell your husband is cheating- if he starts suggesting all these new tricks in bed all of a sudden, chances are he learned them from someone else! And hey, its very true. Nauseating to me now, but I guess he was....honest about it. Blech.

 

And he didnt say it was another woman's pictures, he said she had allowed him to take naughty photos with her, and had no real interest in looking at them herself later (which i guess is one way her and I differ...) so he just emailed them to himself on the secret email, i guess since his work email is not really approriate for storing those photos....I dont think there's ever been another OW than me. Of all the doubts ive carried about whether he really cared about me or not, Ive never had reason to believe theres another OW. He hasn't got the time, energy, or ability to lie very well to keep two of us around. And if his wife hadn't found that email spam last week....he'd still be coming over this week for our "usual" hang outs. If that means he loves his wife...well....dont know what to say about that one.

[ali0112]

I can understand that. I, too, thought that there would never be anyone else for me. And no matter now much you tell yourself that no one else understands, yes, there are those of us that do! I thought he was the love of my life, that I could never possibly love anyone that much ever again. No, I haven't yet met the person who will replace him in my heart, but I now have hope that I will. A year ago, I felt exactly as you do, except perhaps worse. At least yours had the nerve to meet with you. Mine moved almost 3000 miles away with no warning. One day he was here, the next he was gone. Unlike yours, mine actually used the "L" word with me! I spent an entire year writing him e-mail after e-mail, getting no response until I told him about an accident I had. So I received the validation that of course he cared, but only in a life-threatening situation.

 

He made his choice, and no matter how much it gouged my heart out, there was nothing I could/can do about it. Even a year later, the hurt is often unbearable. He was "IT" for me! I thought I could never possibly recover. Your story is so close to mine that it even hurts to read about it. In our case also, it was so much more than "sex". Or so I thought. We talked on the phone EVERY day; he called me every day on the way home from work. (Except on the weekends, of course; that was family time) I'm a widowed mom, and he many times came here and did things around my house that I was unable to do. He was just wonderful! But in the end, he moved with his family, with no word, and left me here all alone to pick up the pieces of my heart that he left broken. Other than the times we talked on the phone, it was weekly 2-3 hour visits. And after the sex, we were like you and your man. Lying with my head on his shoulder, laughing and talking like we were meant to be together.

 

The way you talk about your man is SO similar to the way I felt about mine. But at least yours came and told you that it was over. Mine just left, even after telling me, albeit just a time or two, that he loved me. Like yours, mine was very guarded with his feelings, and it shocked me to no end when he actually used the "L" word. But now it's over, and has been for about a year. I though I would never recover. Every morning I would think about him upon waking, and every night I would think about him going to sleep. Those feelings have lessened somewhat, but it took until now, a year later. So it is going to be a long road. After being a lurker for so long, I want to thank those whose input I have treasured in my recovery, namely Stampdaddy, because his angst has so closely mirrored my own, Owl, whose advice had been great and not TOO judmental, and especially JJ33 and Wildsoul, who have both been in the same situation. Sorry if I've threadjacked your post; I just want you to know that there are others of us out there who have experienced the same, and have lived to tell it.