It's all over

[jj33]

Well have to agree to disagree about this one.

[Lucky_One]

Well have to agree to disagree about this one.

 

We can do that!

[JamesM]

Wow...I am impressed by all of the responses this story generates!

 

Some points....

 

1. Should the wife be told? Yes and no. My guess is that she knows and has known for quite awhile. Should KG tell her? No.

 

2. Then we have the question...does the wife WANT to know? And I don't think it is as easy an answer as you think. Not all wives want to know. Moving on and fixing the relationship without knowing all of this may actually heal (outwardly) the marriage. Many are the wives who say they actually wish they had never known because of all of the pain. I am not a wife, but as a husband, I do have mixed feelings on would I want to know. Yes, I would so I could kick the female dog to the curb. But if I never knew and she regretted her deeds, then it is possible that we move on and still have a happy marriage. The problem is...if I ever find out, then the world will still crash down.

 

2. Did the MM have more women? I find it hard to believe that KG in all her intuitiveness never had suspicions of any other women if she felt he was being honest with her. However, a good liar never appears to be a good liar. And this MM certainly from KG's analysis is not a good liar...so yes, he could be a good liar.

 

3. And I have the question...will he come back? To me this is a real possibility that needs to be prepared for. We read here all the time of MM who come back to the OW and the OW takes them back in a heartbeat. An affair is addictive. It cannot be left without a lot of withdrawal.

 

Now what we need are to find solutions for KG so that she can move on.

 

1. Grieve those years that were lost to a relationship that was known to never be. Grieve the love that you had. Grieve the love you could have had.

 

2. Mix with other singles who are looking for mates. Become friends with single guys.

 

3. If you are afraid that you will be attracted to only those who will not be good for you (ie married men), then seek counseling or seek out some self help books that can give you ideas on how to choose better men.

 

4. Seek out a support group (okay, LS kinda fits that description) IRL that can give you help in staying away from men who are not good for you (Ie the MM who just left you).

 

You will make it. The only question is when and what will be the next chapter of your life. Are we nearing the end of this book and will all problems be solved and the heroine is happy? Or are we in the middle of the book and we have not reached the climax yet? Or have we just begun a new saga?

[jj33]

Lucky One, you have convinced me. If there is any chance KG would go back after telling his W, then there is no point in telling. No use to the W, no use to her.

 

I guess the bottom line is that KG needs to process everything and get to a point where she knows in her heart that she will never put herself in that position again. Otherwise theres no real progress. Just more drama.

[jj33]

KG I can only imagine how much you must be hurting right now but if you arent 100% certain that you would never see him again, then the question you have to ask yourself is when is it enough?

 

What does he have to do to get you to stay away? What has to happen for you to say no more.

 

It may be too soon to start asking these questions. I know if I were you I would be saying never again. But everyone is different.

 

I hope today is better for you.

 

And for those of you who ask why is this different, I cant speak for KG she can speak very eloquently for herself, but many people certainly KG and me when I was in the A, believe that someone wouldnt be there especially for 4 years if they didnt really care, if they really loved their W and slept with their W on a regaular basis, they wouldnt cheat on her because in your heart you believe that if he was with you, he would never cheat. You certainly dont think he is taking your private games and sharing them with anyone else or that he has naughty pics of anyone but you.

 

You accept the reasons why they "cant leave" as being true. You fill in the gaps in your knowledge in a way that is consistent with your belief in what he tells you and in a way that supports staying in the A. It may sound pathetic but its true if it werent the OW/OM boards wouldnt be filled with stories of people waiting and hoping that the MP sees the light.

 

Most people dont post while they are in that phase. They may post at the very beginning when they are getting into the relationship because they have doubts about whether as crazy as it seems, and then they tend to post when they are unhappy and seeking support to get them to the point of walking away. KGs situation is different because she began posting with no intention of leaving the A, so she had relatively objective strangers there to say hang on your version of what is really going on here doesnt add up.

 

But she didnt believe us. Now her beliefs about what was going on for the past for years have been shattered. He did have an active sex life with his W. It was not a sibling type of relationship. So she would be confused and surprised.

 

And why do i think its crueler? because he gave her far more informatoin than was necessary. He could have ended it without being cruel. At the same time maybe that will work in KG's favor. If she accepts the information he gave her, then maybe it will steel her against any advances he might make towards her in the future.

[whichwayisup]

because he gave her far more informatoin than was necessary. He could have ended it without being cruel

 

Just throwing this out here..But what if he told her that to make her hurt even more to help her rid of the feelings she has for him? He was being an a-hole on purpose.

 

And even now KG is not 100% sure she wouldnt take him back.

 

And there's the reason why KG shouldn't tell his wife. However, as I said earlier, if his wife DOES infact call KG, then she can come clean...KG shouldn't be the one doing the calling.

[wildsoul]

And why do i think its crueler? because he gave her far more informatoin than was necessary. He could have ended it without being cruel. At the same time maybe that will work in KG's favor. If she accepts the information he gave her, then maybe it will steel her against any advances he might make towards her in the future.

Well written post, as usual jj33.

 

My former MC explained once how when someone is in denial, other people often react to their seeming inability to GET IT by getting louder and more insistent. Since then, I back off when that ramped-up feeling of needing to get my point across if I can tell the denial is thick.

 

KG came to the nonsense conclusion that MM was referring to his W when he said she wasn't the only woman "around," while everyone else automatically understood he meant OOW. His choice of preposition, "around," makes it clear that he referrring to other peripheral relationships. No one is going to refer to his W as "around," and as others have pointed out, it makes no sense that he'd be mailing photos of his W to his secret account. KG is otherwise a smart woman. What we just witnessed is DENIAL.

 

But go easy on her. Denial/shock is the first phase of grief. She's not on board with the break up. If I recall correctly, she's never once (in any thread) said she wanted out of the relationship. She'd get as far as sharing her pain, but then immediatly turn 'round and make justifications for staying. That pain underneath must be HUGE. She's got to face it in her own time.

 

Although the utter ickiness of him saying that to her *might* feul her upcoming anger phase (mad at him, and also mad at herself for settling for so little.)

 

PS: KG, I'm sorry for talking about you rather than to you. I don't mean any disrespect by that. Just trying to address the other posters.

[Billie63]

Well written post, as usual jj33.

 

My former MC explained once how when someone is in denial, other people often react to their seeming inability to GET IT by getting louder and more insistent. Since then, I back off when that ramped-up feeling of needing to get my point across if I can tell the denial is thick.

 

KG came to the nonsense conclusion that MM was referring to his W when he said she wasn't the only woman "around," while everyone else automatically understood he meant OOW. His choice of preposition, "around," makes it clear that he referrring to other peripheral relationships. No one is going to refer to his W as "around," and as others have pointed out, it makes no sense that he'd be mailing photos of his W to his secret account. KG is otherwise a smart woman. What we just witnessed is DENIAL.

 

But go easy on her. Denial/shock is the first phase of grief. She's not on board with the break up. If I recall correctly, she's never once (in any thread) said she wanted out of the relationship. She'd get as far as sharing her pain, but then immediatly turn 'round and make justifications for staying. That pain underneath must be HUGE. She's got to face it in her own time.

 

Although the utter ickiness of him saying that to her *might* feul her upcoming anger phase (mad at him, and also mad at herself for settling for so little.)

 

PS: KG, I'm sorry for talking about you rather than to you. I don't mean any disrespect by that. Just trying to address the other posters.

 

KG's self denial is understandable. Firstly, she had just had 4 hours asleep and wasn't fully awake when he was talking about KG not being the only woman around.

 

Also, Kismet has always seen him as a moral man who had never cheated on his wife before and Kismet has said on more than one occasion that she believed she was the only OW in his life.

 

Now Kismet has to face up to the fact that he is not the man she thought - there were other women, in conjunction with Kismet supplying this man's secret email with sexy pics. A veritable harem.

 

As I said before I suspect it's not the wife who lacks something in their intimate life, it's the MM who lacks something.

[KismetGirl]

Guys,

 

In two days, I slept 4 hours, literally, so perhaps I missed some stuff here and there when posting. I didn't even fall asleep until after 7 am this morning and that was because i forced myself to take 10 mg of Ambien, double my usual dose, and have henceforth ending up sleeping for 12 hours straight and now feel like my head was run in with a truck.

 

The prospect of him having another OW besides me doesn't seem likely due to time/work stuff, but anything is possible. I've asked him on several occasions if Im the only one, and this is in a time frame where he would be under the impression that I could care less if there's another one around. He always said , immediately, without faltering, NO. When he lies, and I've seen him do it before, he has a tendency to falter quite a bit, which is why his wife always catches him and never believes him in those stupid little lies. If she ever tries to believe him it is not because she thinks he is really telling the truth, because he's horrid at it. If you don't ASK him a direct question he can find ways to avoid it, but if you directly ask him something out of no where, he really doesn't know how to lie about it. When I asked why on earth he would have his wife's sexy photos in his secret email account, he said that she had requested that, while she allowed him on a couple occasions to take those types of pictures of her, she had requested that he immediately delete them from the camera, not to store them anywhere. He didn't want to totally lose them, I guess, so he emailed them to himself where she wouldn't see them. The very thought of him doing it with his wife when he had started doing stuff like that with ME is enough to make me sick to my stomach like i cannot even describe, so I dont want to think about that anymore. It's making me worse.

 

I wish I had the proper words to describe how f**king horrible I feel right now but those words have since escaped me. It's a combination of physical and mental, like when you are coming down with the flu and yoru whole body aches and you're constantly nauseous. I woke up at almsot 7 pm today and hated myself for wasting an entire day sleeping when I have so much studying to do, but the day is gone and I cant get it back. Everywhere I turn Im reminded of him and desperate to forget. In an emotional state of delirium last night I sent him that email I had written yesterday when I just went off on him and alot of the things I had wanted to say in person but didn't really get the chance to because I was so tired and couldnt think properly when he was here. He probably was told some things he didnt deserve to hear, but I just said everything I could think to say at that moment, and that was it. I felt some relief just sending it, because I didn't think it made a difference on this end for him, I think it was more for me.

 

Somehow, something about my story seems to have ticked with so many people for me to be getting so many wonderful people responding, so imagine all the emotions I have been conveying and times it by 1000 and that is probably how I feel right now, in every direction, in real life. I apolgoize if I don't respond to each person individually at the moment, Im a little fuzzy headed right now from sleeping 12 hours after not having really slept for two days. My girl friend has decided I shouldnt be home alone and she and one of my guy friends have talked me into going to her place in Brooklyn, so I guess I'll drag myself over there.

 

I haven't the energy, mental or otherwise, to fathom trying to talk to his wife right now. If I was to find out he had picked up another OW, which in my heart I still want to believe was one thing he was honest about with me that he did not do when i directly asked him, I would freaking lose my mind. I really would. At this state of mind, I would....well, whatever, I'd be pissed is an understatement.

 

Im not sure I've ever felt quite this horrible, in this particular way in my life. Its a feeling of loss not liek when you lose someone you care about to death, but when youve lost what you thought was someone, and with them feel like you've lost part of yourself . I dont know how to explain it. It's not making sense right now is it?

 

The way Im feeling right now, if Mm EVER tried to come back to me I would simultaneously hug him and manually castrate him. And maybe cry afterwards.

 

It's not a matter of my being afraid to be attracted to MM's in the future. Had plenty of other opp's for that and told them to go f**k themselves because I didn't want to deal with that sh*t ever again. But sometimes it takes something like this to get you there. It helps that everyone I now work with is 20 years older than me and nice, but wholly unattractive, I guess. Joy. Hopefully I never again have another boss like him huh?

 

Anyway. I promise to be more coherent and respond as individually as I can but right now I havent eaten more than a miso soup in 36 hours so Im going to pick something up and drive to my friends house so I dont sit around my flat feeling like I want to jump out the window. Back later.

[jj33]

Am feeling v guilty I posted so much on your thread KG. I meant well but you are so good about responding and really this about you and suporting you, not giving you a big job when your head is spinning. So as for me dont feel compelled.

 

Take good care of yourself and get some rest.

 

Big hugs

 

jj

[fooled once]

<quote> I think that if Kismet didn't give a damn about the wife's feelings before, than telling her to "protect and save the wife" at this point is petty, childish, and vengeful, and would be purely acting out of hurt, jealousy and a desire to inflict pain on her MM. <quote>

 

I totally agree with the above.

 

And for all we know, she does know the truth and she has chosen to stay with him and forgive him. MANY women do this. Each person can individually make that decision when they are faced with it. We can all say what we think we would do in that situation, but until you are faced with it, you don't truly KNOW how you would handle it.

 

I just think it is vengeful and spiteful and not right for Kismet to NOW have concern for the wives feelings. And I wonder if Kismet hopes that by telling the wife what her husband was doing, the wife would kick him out and then he would come back to Kismet? Isn't that what many women do when they are fighting over a man?

 

Kismet, you WILL get through this. So many on the boards have felt exactly what you are going though. We all got through it.

 

You said he lives 2 hours from you? Wow. I didn't realize that. Makes sense now why he had a hard time spending more time with you. Kinda hard to account for 4+ hours (2 hours each way) of time.

 

I wish you wouldn't have sent that email. I don't think it will help you end/put closure on this relationship. Now you are going to wait to see if he responds. And you will be hurt when he doesn't.

 

I am a little confused -- you said you waited over a year to sleep with him; yet I get the impression from your description of the first kiss that it wasn't that long after that when you and he had sex the first time. Doesn't really matter.

 

You are hurting. I am so sorry you are.

 

But you will get through it. You will hopefully get stronger each day and I will bet you one day look back and want to kick yourself for allowing this A to go on for so long and for putting up with so much bullcrap from him. He is a liar. He isn't honest. He isn't honorable. His moral character is utter crap. He just isn't a good person. You will see that one day.

[whichwayisup]

If you feel OK sending that email, like it was closure, then that's good...BUT, if you send it with hopes and expectations to 1)get a reaction 2)hope it'll make him come talk to you or email you back or 3)he'll change his mind and come back, continue the A with you, then sending it was a mistake.

 

Don't be disappointed if he doesn't respond to it. And, for your own sake, don't send him anymore emails. Write as many as you want, just don't hit send!!

 

Anyway, get some sleep tonight and hopefully tomorrow you'll feel better than today.

[ForumFool]

KS I am glad you have friends taking good care of you...I feel being out and with others who make sure you eat and sleep and have someone to talk to is VERY healthy and I feel better for you knowing someone is caring for you.

 

I also wanted to point out that all those "wonderful posters" you mentioned may very well be posting because they CARE not because they/we see you are a villain ....but most of us do not see you as a victim either.....That doesn't mean your PAIN is not valid....

 

I think Wildsoul is spot on on why people may be hammering their point in ...I hope you read her/his post..well all the posts when you are rested...Many in here care about you but are showing that BY being honest ....Honestly really is how you will heal....You will heal also when you see him for what he really is....I do give him credit for being honest with you about loving his wife and how he would never leave her for you...he meant that and showed that....otherwise he is a serial cheater. liar etc.....I personally have zero doubt he has others...or had a few quickies....(and why is it OK that he cheated on his wife but not OK he cheated on you?)..what he said on the other women can only read one way in reality world.....If I had sex pics of me and my spouse on the puter I would say " No you cannot see them because I have private pics of me and hubby on there" NOT "there are other men".....Anyhow you aren't ready for this and are still in phase one....

 

Glad you are safe and in the company of people who care in person.

[White Flower]

Wow...I am impressed by all of the responses this story generates!

 

Some points....

 

1. Should the wife be told? Yes and no. My guess is that she knows and has known for quite awhile. Should KG tell her? No.

 

2. Then we have the question...does the wife WANT to know? And I don't think it is as easy an answer as you think. Not all wives want to know. Moving on and fixing the relationship without knowing all of this may actually heal (outwardly) the marriage. Many are the wives who say they actually wish they had never known because of all of the pain. I am not a wife, but as a husband, I do have mixed feelings on would I want to know. Yes, I would so I could kick the female dog to the curb. But if I never knew and she regretted her deeds, then it is possible that we move on and still have a happy marriage. The problem is...if I ever find out, then the world will still crash down.

 

2. Did the MM have more women? I find it hard to believe that KG in all her intuitiveness never had suspicions of any other women if she felt he was being honest with her. However, a good liar never appears to be a good liar. And this MM certainly from KG's analysis is not a good liar...so yes, he could be a good liar.

 

3. And I have the question...will he come back? To me this is a real possibility that needs to be prepared for. We read here all the time of MM who come back to the OW and the OW takes them back in a heartbeat. An affair is addictive. It cannot be left without a lot of withdrawal.

 

Now what we need are to find solutions for KG so that she can move on.

 

1. Grieve those years that were lost to a relationship that was known to never be. Grieve the love that you had. Grieve the love you could have had.

 

2. Mix with other singles who are looking for mates. Become friends with single guys.

 

3. If you are afraid that you will be attracted to only those who will not be good for you (ie married men), then seek counseling or seek out some self help books that can give you ideas on how to choose better men.

 

4. Seek out a support group (okay, LS kinda fits that description) IRL that can give you help in staying away from men who are not good for you (Ie the MM who just left you).

 

You will make it. The only question is when and what will be the next chapter of your life. Are we nearing the end of this book and will all problems be solved and the heroine is happy? Or are we in the middle of the book and we have not reached the climax yet? Or have we just begun a new saga?

As always, excellent advice from James M.

 

Kis,

 

I'm so sorry. I didn't know you had two simultaneous threads going and posted so naively on the other one. Know that I am with you and here for you. PM me any time.

 

(((KG)))

[KismetGirl]

Owl I agree with you it would be incredibly cruel for the W to know he shared those tricks with others. Just as it was incredibly cruel to say tell KG he shared those things with others. But that is the kind of guy he is.

 

That is why I am in favor of a very very short email to his W. Not a "tell all" rip out the heart book.

 

But my guess is KG isnt ready to even think about this yet. It so soon. And its all so fresh and raw and disorienting.

 

She took the little bits of information and made sense of it in her own way as we all so. And her beleif in his life and his motivations etc kept her in it for 4 years. That is a long time and a big chunk of her life post living at home. It got her in so deep that it may take some time for her to come to terms with what was really going on.

 

It is very difficult for me right now JJ....when you think about it, my entire "adult" life so far has been spent with him in some way in my life. Seriously. My first job out of school, probably 4 months after I graduated from university and came back to NY, was the one in which MM hired me. It's hard for me to even remember what its like to take a day off of work and not have him come over. I didn't go to work today as I felt like crap, and when I woke up, even though it was so late in the evening, I forgot for a second that we're "over" and almost expected to get the call from him as I do every day, telling me he's going to be here in a few minutes.

 

Sometimes I think back to certain things he says and can't imagine they aren't true, and then sometimes it's hard to believe they are true. I don't think he lied about every word that came out of his mouth. i knew he WAS sleeping with his wife at least once in a while, was never really sure how often, but I knew it was happening. He generally didn't rub it in my face until I asked or persisted in knowing something, which i didnt often want to know for obvious reasons. I really didn't need to know that he was taking crap I was introducing him to and then doing it with her, though. I really could have done without that bit of info.

 

And the whole "there WAS another woman in the picutre" line when i asked what was in the email he didnt want me to see, was, I believe, his way of very uncomfortably reminding me that he was sleeping with me AND his wife. He does the same thing I do when I am uncomfrotable discussing something- I say it without saying IT. I'll say " when I said THAT WORD" about you, instead of "when I told you I loved you". In that same way he said "another woman in the picutre" instead of "my wife and you were both sleeping with me". Am I making sense? I don't really think , if only for practicality reasons, that he had the time or energy to have yet another OW around somewhere. And you know what, it doesnt even matter right now, Im too dizzy to think about that detail anymore.

 

Maybe when Im not so, so hurt I'd be able to handle telling his W but Im really not sure if I will. Ive been in a daze the last two days, so badly that my insomnia has reverted to its former full glory when I literally can go two plus days without sleeping even though Im exhausted. I havent been to work in two days. I just feel....ill.

[KismetGirl]

His W has found so many clues and is being gaslighted. You think shed be shocked? I dont think so. Angry hurt hearetbroken, yes. Shocked no.

 

I never ever believe the OW should be the one to tell the W for the reasons you say, but this is a very different case in my view.

 

If a man walks into your house and tells you he integrated the things he did with you into his marital sex life which he led you to believe was nonexistent and "says nervously well there were other women around" it all changes, its so cruel I cant find the words for it.

 

And even now KG is not 100% sure she wouldnt take him back.

 

The motives might not be pure, but it will get him out of her life and that is really all that matters.

 

No, at the moment its hard to be 100% on anything, but i think it's just because my mind is all over the place.

 

He tried to avoid telling me why he didnt want to give me the password but i persisted so i guess he finally relented and just told me. I wish I didn't even ask. I keep having images of him doing stuff we did together with his W. *sigh* I knew he was still sleeping with her, even if I wasnt sure how often, but I never focused on it as much. Somehow now I keep getting these images that really bother me...I guess because it's not just him sleeping with her, it's him taking specific things WE did together that I know he never used to do with her, and he brought them back home so he could have two women doing them. I guess I improved their marital sex life. Fabulous.

 

For some reason it just seems to be like she doesn't want to know. I mean, maybe she does want to know, but at the same time, she can't be stupid, right? All these suspicions....all this evidence, while indirect, it DOES mean he is lying to her, and people only lie when they have something to hide, right? I just dont know. I feel like on some leve maybe she doesnt want to know, or doesnt want it to be true, and maybe I should just let her live on. I dont know. Im having a big problem deciding on this. Maybe it will feel more clear later, because nothing feels clear at all right now.

[KismetGirl]

Wow...I am impressed by all of the responses this story generates!

 

Some points....

 

1. Should the wife be told? Yes and no. My guess is that she knows and has known for quite awhile. Should KG tell her? No.

 

Yeah I have real issues on this too....I feel like she's not an idiot, she must know by now. And if she doesn't want to leave him then maybe its because she hasn't had her face rubbed in the details, or is somehow convincing herself that since she has no direct proof, she can fathom moving forward with her marriage. This isn't the first time she's caught him in a lie. He said himself this week that he has greatly damaged the trust level they have throughout the last four years. Didnt seem to stop him before though...

 

2. Then we have the question...does the wife WANT to know? And I don't think it is as easy an answer as you think. Not all wives want to know. Moving on and fixing the relationship without knowing all of this may actually heal (outwardly) the marriage. Many are the wives who say they actually wish they had never known because of all of the pain. I am not a wife, but as a husband, I do have mixed feelings on would I want to know. Yes, I would so I could kick the female dog to the curb. But if I never knew and she regretted her deeds, then it is possible that we move on and still have a happy marriage. The problem is...if I ever find out, then the world will still crash down.

 

And maybe she doesnt want to know. Who knows. Like I said...he adamantly denies actually cheating. She suspects. She has the email address of the only woman that has seemed to come up on a couple of occasions in these incidents (me.) If she wanted, she could look on the cell phone bill and find my number, as she'd notice the text messages to me early in the morning when he is supposedly on his way to work. She hasn't bothered ever to ask me. Maybe she doesnt want to know details. I dont know. I really dont.

 

2. Did the MM have more women? I find it hard to believe that KG in all her intuitiveness never had suspicions of any other women if she felt he was being honest with her. However, a good liar never appears to be a good liar. And this MM certainly from KG's analysis is not a good liar...so yes, he could be a good liar.

 

I want to believe he didnt. Practicality being one of them. He never goes out at night anymore, he's always home in the evening. Im sure there's the off-chance he had some fling with someone when we were apart, but I doubt it. He was always way too nervous about our own A being found out....but hey, I dont know. No one knows but him. I can only go on asking him questions, the answers he gave me, the look on his face when he did so. His way of "lying" is generally to avoid something altogether. When he's directly asked a question, he's not very good at it.

 

3. And I have the question...will he come back? To me this is a real possibility that needs to be prepared for. We read here all the time of MM who come back to the OW and the OW takes them back in a heartbeat. An affair is addictive. It cannot be left without a lot of withdrawal.

 

I dont think he will come back. Maybe down the line, MAYBE, if I opened the door to it again he might relent and come back. But I can't imagine going through this again. Last time we got back together I told him i couldnt handle another break up. that if it happened again that was it. I dont think I have the strength to do this again.

 

Now what we need are to find solutions for KG so that she can move on.

 

1. Grieve those years that were lost to a relationship that was known to never be. Grieve the love that you had. Grieve the love you could have had.

 

2. Mix with other singles who are looking for mates. Become friends with single guys.

 

3. If you are afraid that you will be attracted to only those who will not be good for you (ie married men), then seek counseling or seek out some self help books that can give you ideas on how to choose better men.

 

4. Seek out a support group (okay, LS kinda fits that description) IRL that can give you help in staying away from men who are not good for you (Ie the MM who just left you).

 

You will make it. The only question is when and what will be the next chapter of your life. Are we nearing the end of this book and will all problems be solved and the heroine is happy? Or are we in the middle of the book and we have not reached the climax yet? Or have we just begun a new saga?

 

Im not worried that Im prone to finding only unavailable men. I find single ones. In the grand scheme of things meeting people is hard, and meeting someone compatible is even harder. My job is not conducive to a social life right now, and for some odd reason, the majority of my friends are either married or in long-term coupledom. I have only a small, small handful of single friends, and most of them are all spread in different "groups" of friends that dont generally all hang out together. So I end up going out with like five hundred couples, and maybe me and one or two other single people, and that makes it a tad harder to meet people I think. *sigh* maybe things will change when I start school again. Everyone I work with is much older than me, so work socialising is a little removed. I think I need to take a break from guys for a while. Not sure my heart or head can handle it right now. I was asked out by one of MM's co workers last week, who has been after me for a long while, since I used to work there, and I was almost tempted to give in. Not that he's unattractive or a bad guy but I think my motivations might be skewed since they work together so maybe I should hold off on it anyway.

 

I wish I knew how this story was going or what part of the book I am in, but I've got terrible writer's block lately, James. Hoping that fog lifts soon.

[KismetGirl]

Just throwing this out here..But what if he told her that to make her hurt even more to help her rid of the feelings she has for him? He was being an a-hole on purpose.

 

 

 

And there's the reason why KG shouldn't tell his wife. However, as I said earlier, if his wife DOES in fact call KG, then she can come clean...KG shouldn't be the one doing the calling.

 

One of my friends (who knows MM as she worked with him for a long time as well) seemed to think he was being an a-hole on purpose. She said he always seemed very distant and guarded, even though he tried to seem charming at work, and gave her the impression that he was the type who was uncomfortable with expressing his feelings and would rather just distance everything. She seemed to think he was being a d**k to make it easier for him to break it off, as well as for me to not want to hang on as much.

 

I keep thinking about the look on his face when he was talking, and telling him that his face confused me. He'd asked me why, and I'd told him because the way he spoke and his words didnt match his face. He didnt know what i was talking about....but meant that he looked as if he was upset to be telling me those things, but said them anyway. I dont know. Maybe he was being a total sh*t just to push me away. I dont know.

 

If his wife called me I wouldn't lie to her....I'd answer whatever she asked for the most part. But i dont think she'll call. She would have done that already i think, wouldnt she?

[KismetGirl]

Well written post, as usual jj33.

 

My former MC explained once how when someone is in denial, other people often react to their seeming inability to GET IT by getting louder and more insistent. Since then, I back off when that ramped-up feeling of needing to get my point across if I can tell the denial is thick.

 

KG came to the nonsense conclusion that MM was referring to his W when he said she wasn't the only woman "around," while everyone else automatically understood he meant OOW. His choice of preposition, "around," makes it clear that he referrring to other peripheral relationships. No one is going to refer to his W as "around," and as others have pointed out, it makes no sense that he'd be mailing photos of his W to his secret account. KG is otherwise a smart woman. What we just witnessed is DENIAL.

 

But go easy on her. Denial/shock is the first phase of grief. She's not on board with the break up. If I recall correctly, she's never once (in any thread) said she wanted out of the relationship. She'd get as far as sharing her pain, but then immediatly turn 'round and make justifications for staying. That pain underneath must be HUGE. She's got to face it in her own time.

 

Although the utter ickiness of him saying that to her *might* feul her upcoming anger phase (mad at him, and also mad at herself for settling for so little.)

 

PS: KG, I'm sorry for talking about you rather than to you. I don't mean any disrespect by that. Just trying to address the other posters.

 

No disrespect....just "listening" to the various viewpoints....

[KismetGirl]

Am feeling v guilty I posted so much on your thread KG. I meant well but you are so good about responding and really this about you and suporting you, not giving you a big job when your head is spinning. So as for me dont feel compelled.

 

Take good care of yourself and get some rest.

 

Big hugs

 

jj

 

No worries JJ. You are always helpful and caring. I try to respond to as many people as I can, hope no one feels ignored. Sometimes its a good distraction. Better than sitting on the sofa and sinking in a depression hole....no good if I sit and think. You get lost in your own head that way sometimes...not in a good way.

[KismetGirl]

<quote>

You said he lives 2 hours from you? Wow. I didn't realize that. Makes sense now why he had a hard time spending more time with you. Kinda hard to account for 4+ hours (2 hours each way) of time.

 

I wish you wouldn't have sent that email. I don't think it will help you end/put closure on this relationship. Now you are going to wait to see if he responds. And you will be hurt when he doesn't.

 

I am a little confused -- you said you waited over a year to sleep with him; yet I get the impression from your description of the first kiss that it wasn't that long after that when you and he had sex the first time. Doesn't really matter.

 

You are hurting. I am so sorry you are.

 

But you will get through it. You will hopefully get stronger each day and I will bet you one day look back and want to kick yourself for allowing this A to go on for so long and for putting up with so much bullcrap from him. He is a liar. He isn't honest. He isn't honorable. His moral character is utter crap. He just isn't a good person. You will see that one day.

 

Hi

 

Yes, he used to live maybe five to ten minutes away from me....after they bought their house they moved quite a ways away. He still works near where I live, but otherwise he isn't around like he used to be. When he lived near me it was far easier to get together, go out after work and etc, because he could be home very quickly when he needed to be.

 

After the first kiss it was nearly two years before I actually slept with him. It was fooling around here and there, but mostly kissing, hugging, sneaking off to make out, and just hanigng out, getting a drink, going to ballgames, what have you. On my last day of working together we "tried" to sneak off to a hotel to sleep together but it didnt quite work out. So really we didnt start having sex till little over two years into it i think. The first kiss night was the best though....I refused to sleep with him and I still remember that text he sent me in the morning word for word. Dont think I'll ever forget it. Dont know why.

 

I dont want to think he's a bad person...but somewhere along the way , i dont know...he like lost his way. He got too comfortable with it, in a way. He says he always felt massively guilty and anxious about it, and hated lying to his wife...but if you hate it that much why would you do it? I dont know. I hated the feeling of watching him go back to his family, but I still did the A as much as it pained me, so I guess people don't make sense between actions and words. Or whatver.

[KismetGirl]

If you feel OK sending that email, like it was closure, then that's good...BUT, if you send it with hopes and expectations to 1)get a reaction 2)hope it'll make him come talk to you or email you back or 3)he'll change his mind and come back, continue the A with you, then sending it was a mistake.

 

Don't be disappointed if he doesn't respond to it. And, for your own sake, don't send him anymore emails. Write as many as you want, just don't hit send!!

 

Anyway, get some sleep tonight and hopefully tomorrow you'll feel better than today.

 

I dont really expect a response from him. I hope he read it and read every word of it. But I honestly dont expect a response. I just needed to not feel like I , yet again, left things unsaid. I asked a couple of good friends to read it and let me know if i sounded like a total nutter, and they would be totally honest with me if it was horrid or i shoudlnt have sent it, and they both felt i deserved to send it and that it was a great and heartfelt and honest letter and that there were certain things he should hear if thats what made me feel better. So I did feel somewhat relieved after sending it, and I hope he really did read it all, even if I never get a response.

 

It's 430 in the morning and somehow I am awake...again. guess its time for more sleeping pills. Blah....insomnia is pretty common for me, and like i said, gets worse when im stressed/upset....at least its the weekend so i wont miss more work and can have a couple days to recoup.

 

Thank you, WWIU, and everyone, for the continued support, its immensely helpful. Sometimes I think I'd go crazy if I didnt have both this AND some good friends IRL as an outlet, but sometimes I need both. Dont like feeling like im throwing it all on my friends and family, i guess. So....thank you.

[jj33]

Dont worry about the email. When MM and I broke up I sent him about 20 of those emails in the space of 3 days. Some he responded to some he didnt. But it made me feel so much better because I couldnt talk to him and really I didnt want to talk to him I just wanted say what I needed to say. Then I was done and that was that.

 

Often in these relationships you get very emotionally involved and you dont get to say what you want to say because things have ended so abruptly. You are someone who expresses herself and so if it helps you I wouldnt say its a bad thing. The only danger is that you will be disappointed if he doesnt respond or it may reengage him which would be a bad thing. This really does need to end for your sake.

 

Youre going to need time KG. It is like a piece of you is missing. Once I got over the shock, which took a few days, I walked around talking to him as if he were dead like those people in movies who talk to their dead husbands.

 

And then I got angry. Really angry. The whole thing was surreal. And then I just missed him. It is a void. And it does take time.

 

But its worth going through the pain because at a certain point you realize that the pain of it being over is really no worse than the pain of being in it after you have fallen in love and realize that you arent ever going to be together. You no longer have "the dream" that someday it will all work out between you. But you have your life back and the whole world of options outside of MM.

 

But its easier, because at least you are setting yourself free. Much as it feels for awhile like a part of you is missing (and that may be a long while it may be a short while) you are opening up space in your life for something new to come in.

 

And you dont know where you will meet someone, I once met someone at an ATM machine, on the subway when we were both going to the same destination, out with married friends, on a plane, you just never know. Once you are over the shock and have time to detach a little bit things will shift for you. Thats the amazing thing about life. You just dont know what is around the corner.

 

Take good care and get lots of rest.

[Die Hard]

Well I know it sucks Kis but I'm thrilled to see this thread. You'll get your life back if you follow through with this and make sure it stays over. There are going to be many hard days ahead for you, I won't sugarcoat it for you. Just be prepared for the hills and valleys of the withdrawal. You'll have days where you feel better, then the bad feelings and pain will return. This is where you are most vulnerable. You just have to remember it's normal and will all eventually pass. Took me about 6 months before I finally stopped crying, and another six or so to be pretty much ready to move on with my life and would not take her back, regardless. Not saying it will be this bad, but it could be, so just be ready for whatever your brain throws at you.

 

BUT, after this email, you need to have NO COMMUNICATION with him or you will have to START ALL OVER AGAIN! You have to get it in your head that it's over, not because he says it is, but because you are ready for it to end, too. At first this kind of thinking will be difficult but you can train your brain if you just keep at it. A year from now you will be so thankful it's all in the past if you just stick with it. Good luck Kis!!!!!!!! I'm excited for you and the possibility of you getting past this episode in your life!!!!:love:

[NoIDidn't]

KG

 

I know you are hurting and I am sorry to hear that. But I doubt that this thing is over by a long shot. If his W doesn't know, and you don't want it to be over, then there is no stopping him from coming back and you from accepting it.

 

I don't know why everyone is up in arms over him trying the sex tricks with his W. She is his W. Even the telling you about it part doesn't strike me as cruel. Tacky, yes. Cruel, no. Its along the lines of TMI. You already know he has a W and that he has sex with her. Its like thinking you actually dictate what he can and can't try in his marriage. It makes no sense to me. But, hey, that's me and this is just my opinion.

 

I think telling his W would end it. I think his W deserves to know the truth of what he's been up to especially as she obviously has been suspecting. He and you are doing the affair dance. He is now pushing you away as to not lose his primary dance partner. When she no longer acts suspicious or he thinks that her focus is on something else, he will be back saying he was a fool, he loves and misses you, blah blah blah and whatever else to get back into your pants.

 

I can't say that his W wants to know though. She has enough evidence. She may just be biding her time. That's what I think she is doing. Plus, many Ws have friends that have this mistaken belief that they are somehow *stooping* or otherwise behaving like *less than* if they contact the suspected OW. I say whatever. I don't think confronting (in a controlled and respectable manner) a person you suspect of sleeping with your spouse is beneath a person in the least. And I don't think that all contacting of the spouse of the person you are in an affair with is sour grapes.

 

If you want it over, tell her. If you want him to come back, keep doing what you are doing. But get some sleep and keep hanging out with your friends, whatver you decide.