How exactly does gay marriage negatively affect traditional marriage?

[Island Girl]

This does not even deserve a response, I'm laughing so hard, I have tears in my eyes. Homosexuals are the equivalent of sheep and peanut butter sandwiches now?

 

Just like blacks were monkeys back in the day ...

 

Oh Lord Almighty.

 

Poor Trojan John.

 

It seems that so many people can't see the sarcasm in your posts!

 

manugeorge - Trojan John's post reads as facetious.

 

TJ - correct me if I am wrong?

 

 

The one before it posted by boxing123 was quite similar but THAT one was serious.

Disturbing. But serious nonetheless.

[manugeorge]

Poor Trojan John.

 

It seems that so many people can't see the sarcasm in your posts!

 

manugeorge - Trojan John's post reads as facetious.

 

TJ - correct me if I am wrong?

 

 

The one before it posted by boxing123 was quite similar but THAT one was serious.

Disturbing. But serious nonetheless.

 

oh my bad!. I didn't catch the sarcasm. I thought it was highly suspicious but there are people out there who actually believe his argument.

[cn283]

AHHH.. The arguments for gay marriage..

 

1. Society already has gone to hell in a handbasket.. So time to let gays marry.

 

2. Some straight mom's suck, so might as well let gay mom's and dad's suck too.

 

3. Gay's marrying won't affect you personally. If that was the litmus test, then tell me how it would affect you if I married 125 women? Or if Joe married a sheep. How would it affect you? Huh? Huh?

 

4. Hetero's cheat, so let's allow gays to marry too!

 

And no. Gays should NOT raise children. The optimum situation for a child is a mother and father. Not 2 guys having anal sex with Aids, or 2 man hating lesbians. My ex girlfriend has a father who "turned gay" and now in his older age he is disowned by the gay community, and resorts to sleeping with young boys that he pays. Not exactly the best role model.

 

One more thing I notice..

 

When the "pro gay marriage" crowd talks about gay marriage they are quick to only mention "Why can't 2 people in love marry", as though that is how gays usually are. Monogamous, in love, etc.

 

But when they speak of heteros, they say marriage is NOT about love! Then they find every poor straight marriage example they can think of, and compare those examples to the absolute 100% best possible gay situation that might not even exist.

 

That is what you call brainwashing. They would rather put down 98% of humans in order to raise 2%. Perhaps they hate themselves?

 

I mean at least be realistic. Tell me what proff you have gays would marry for love? Because where gay marriage is legal only 1-5% marry, and only a small % of them list love or anything close as to the reason why they married. So do not make things up out of thin air, and use your normal hetero mind to try and imagine how gays think.

 

Perez Hilton is a perfect example.. Very pro gay marriage.. Can you imagine that guy being in a monogamous loving long term relationship, going into it with the idea of being with 1 guy forever? Yeah right..

 

Can you imagine a straight judge calling a contestant a "dumb bitch" if she was pro gay marriage? I guess he is gay so it is cool.

 

 

I'm not trying to pick on you, seriously, but your arguments (and some on the pro side) are lumping thousands of people into what your perception of being gay is.

 

1. I think that comment was more countering your argument if gay people can marry things are change for the worse (people marrying sheep, pigs, Perez Hilton, ect.)

 

2. That's trying to make you realize that not all families are the "normal" mom, dad, and 2.5 kids. I was raised with a single mom, she's been dating the same guy for 15 yrs, they both had previous marriages and have no plans on ever getting married. Am I some sort of criminal degenerate? No, I have a college degree, in a stable relationship, with a good job. Two straight parents in the home don't always equal a good home, just as two gay parents in a home won't always equal what you think it will.

 

3. Of course you marrying 120 women won't affect my life (unless I'm a neighbor...lol), but at the same time I don't care that you marry 120 women. I don't believe in polygamy, but just because I don't doesn't I'm going to make it my life's goal to tell people they can't marry multiple people just because it makes me uncomfortable and I wouldn't lead that lifestyle.

 

4. Not really a strong arguement I'll admit. But some anti-gay marriage people continue to perpetuate this false truth that a straight marriage NEVER has problems, NEVER has an infidelity, and NEVER breaks up. That just doesn't happen if you look at statistics.

 

You comment about raising children is again filled with sterotypes. If I was married and enjoyed nothing but anal sex and pegging with my husband, and we decided to adopt kids rather than have them according to you I would automaticaly be a bad parent.

 

I can't prove to you every gay couple to get married will get married for love, as of now, a lot of straight couple don't do it for love. I'm sure they'll get married for the same reasons anyone does: love, comfort, not being lonely, security, money, insurance, ect. And I think the very low number of gay people marrying kind of shoots one of your arguement in the foot a little. Just because it's legal not everyone is running to do it (same w/straight couples) some gay guys don't see the need, and some have been with the same person for decades and want to have the same rights I would when I get married.

 

And Perez Hilton, the very ignorant judge at that contest, are not the shining examples of the gay community. That's like saying since most pedophiles are white males, all white males are bad. Since most crime is commited by minorities, all minorities are evil and want to rape women and steal stuff.

 

I know that was long, sorry.

[boxing123]

I'm not going to address all of these points, because they're just not worthy of any response, but as to number 9 - please show me where a child who is raised by a mother AND a father is always successful. Jeffrey Dahmer was raised in a "normal" household, for example.

 

 

Jeffrey Dahmer was GAY, like a very large % of serial killers. He was also a pedophile.He just happens to be MORE mentally ill than other gays.

 

Do any of you pro gay marriage people even know any gays whom are really depressed and sad because they have been in a very long term monogamous relationship and they cannot be officially married? Their life just sucks because we have these archaic and offensive rules that marriage is between a man and a woman?

 

And PLEASE stop lumping blacks with gays. The main reason gay marriage failed in California was because BLACKS voted against it at a very high %.

[Tired03]

Yes Boxing I do. The Lesbian couple that I know that have been together for over 13 years. Very much in love, very much "married" for all intents and purposes, but they can't get married. That discrimination upsets them - and me.

[39388]

Jeffrey Dahmer was GAY, like a very large % of serial killers. He was also a pedophile.He just happens to be MORE mentally ill than other gays.

 

Do any of you pro gay marriage people even know any gays whom are really depressed and sad because they have been in a very long term monogamous relationship and they cannot be officially married? Their life just sucks because we have these archaic and offensive rules that marriage is between a man and a woman?

 

And PLEASE stop lumping blacks with gays. The main reason gay marriage failed in California was because BLACKS voted against it at a very high %.

You really must hang out with gays all the time. I've never been to a gay bar, but I imagine you are at one every night. You really do think you are an expert on this topic.

 

Some gays have problems because of the hatred against them. Did you know that some people refuse to hang out or be friends with gays, just because they are gay? Did you know that some equate gay sex to sex with animals? Did you know that some people will, get this, disown thier own children if they are gay. I could list more things here. There is definitely a lot of hatred against gays.

 

I thought gay marriage in CA was banned because some people don't like it or even don't like gays at all. It is not because of any one race. Republicans voted 82-18 to ban it. That's a much higher percent than how any one race voted.

 

I just found a group that is even more anti gay than Republicans as a whole. The group that approves of how George Bush is handling his job (as of November 4th, 2008) voted 86-14 to ban gay marriage.

[Jake Barnes]

Yes Boxing I do. The Lesbian couple that I know that have been together for over 13 years. Very much in love, very much "married" for all intents and purposes, but they can't get married. That discrimination upsets them - and me.

ANd who is saying they can't be together?

 

Is anyone stopping them from working?

 

From going where they want?

 

Frome doing what they want?

 

You and they want them to be officially recognized as married by the state, because you know well that that would be society's way of saying that their relationship is equal to that of a man and a woman. That would be society's way of saying that their relationship is completely normal

 

And if that offends the ethics of most religious people or maybe some non-religious people with common sense..well the hell with them right?

 

I sincerely hope that the legal construct of marriage is abandoned all together and replaced with some hollow ,technical shell of itself just to save what marriage once was from you guys

[39388]

ANd who is saying they can't be together?

 

Is anyone stopping them from working?

 

From going where they want?

 

Frome doing what they want?

 

You and they want them to be officially recognized as married by the state, because you know well that that would be society's way of saying that their relationship is equal to that of a man and a woman. That would be society's way of saying that their relationship is completely normal

 

And if that offends the ethics of most religious people or maybe some non-religious people with common sense..well the hell with them right?

 

I sincerely hope that the legal construct of marriage is abandoned all together and replaced with some hollow ,technical shell of itself just to save what marriage once was from you guys

If the religious right had their way, it would be a crime for them to be together at all.

 

In about 3/4 states, you can be fired just for being gay or lesbian.

 

If them marrying offends YOU so much, that's YOUR problem. As has been said so many times, if you don't like gay marrage please don't gay marry.

 

Marriage is what it has always been. If gays get the right to marry, it will not change heterosexual marriage in any way whatsoever.

[sally4sara]

AHHH.. The arguments for gay marriage..

2. Some straight mom's suck, so might as well let gay mom's and dad's suck too.

3. Gay's marrying won't affect you personally. If that was the litmus test, then tell me how it would affect you if I married 125 women? Or if Joe married a sheep. How would it affect you? Huh? Huh?

4. Hetero's cheat, so let's allow gays to marry too!

And no. Gays should NOT raise children. The optimum situation for a child is a mother and father. Not 2 guys having anal sex with Aids, or 2 man hating lesbians. My ex girlfriend has a father who "turned gay" and now in his older age he is disowned by the gay community, and resorts to sleeping with young boys that he pays. Not exactly the best role model.

One more thing I notice..

When the "pro gay marriage" crowd talks about gay marriage they are quick to only mention "Why can't 2 people in love marry", as though that is how gays usually are. Monogamous, in love, etc.

But when they speak of heteros, they say marriage is NOT about love! Then they find every poor straight marriage example they can think of, and compare those examples to the absolute 100% best possible gay situation that might not even exist.

That is what you call brainwashing. They would rather put down 98% of humans in order to raise 2%. Perhaps they hate themselves?

I mean at least be realistic. Tell me what proff you have gays would marry for love? Because where gay marriage is legal only 1-5% marry, and only a small % of them list love or anything close as to the reason why they married. So do not make things up out of thin air, and use your normal hetero mind to try and imagine how gays think.

Perez Hilton is a perfect example.. Very pro gay marriage.. Can you imagine that guy being in a monogamous loving long term relationship, going into it with the idea of being with 1 guy forever? Yeah right..

 

In Denmark they passed gay marriage. First trial run was a civil union recognition in 1989. It did not destroy hetero marriage; no real significant change since the 1970 BEFORE the recognition of civil union.

At the time they were considering to allow civil union, over 70 percent of the county's clergy was opposed to the idea. Since then, the world has not ended and now almost the entirety of Denmark's clergy that were opposed have changed their minds. They now feel is was a wise move with many beneficial factors. A marked decrease in promiscuity and new std infection among the gay community was one of the big reasons.

 

You have cited as well that we will see:

marriage to include multiple partners

marriage to non humans (pets, livestock etc)

children molested

children trained to be gay

 

Since we live in a world where roughly half the WORLD recognizes so form of same sex marriage, why isn't this happening in those places? You ask for proof while you offer nothing but opinions. I've just listed verifiable assurances that your fears and opinions are unfounded. My Google-fu is strong but all I did was type "issues with gay marriage" and found very useful, global facts on the subject.

 

So Boxing....why will these things happen in the U.S. when they are NOT happening in the counties where gay marriage is legal?

 

The point is, it doesn't matter if most gay people claim minor interest in getting married. It is hard to say how they would feel if the practice were legalized. The ones that want to should be allowed to do so simply because they are human and therefore, equal to you or I. They are also tax-paying adults with the same right you and I have to their pursuit of happiness.

I sadly suspect though, that we could list cold hard facts for the rest of the year and punch big, barn sized holes in all your arguments (opinions). It wouldn't matter the content of logic thrown at you and some anti-gay marriage folk. Folks like you just WANT to deny as many people as possible whatever might make them happy. I just wish I knew what you get out of being this way.

[tami-chan]

Why do they insist on being "married" anyway? I mean, some want to be married in church!!! It's crazy and disrespectful to the beliefs of the church. If they want to be married in the church they should form their own denomination or religion. Why isn't a civil union enough?

[boxing123]

A marked decrease in promiscuity and new std infection among the gay community was one of the big reasons.

 

 

 

Since we live in a world where roughly half the WORLD recognizes so form of same sex marriage, why isn't this happening in those places?

 

 

 

First of all, in Sweden, Denmark, etc only 1-5% of gays have married. I SERIOUSLY doubt that is the reasons gays are spreading less disease. Since such a small number have married (many for immigration purposes 45% in Sweden,perhaps importing a young third world boy to have sex with) education/improved awareness would be responsible for the spread of less diseases.

 

 

Secondly, half the world consists of Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium and Spain. Are you on drugs? That is not even 4% of the world. How do you come up with 50%? And just because a liberal govt changes a law does not mean all the citizens of that country embrace gays. Gay marriage is also VERY new in Spain and Belgium..

 

In many countries gays have no rights and are beaten routinely. So? Gays are far less accepted in most of the world, than they are accepted.

[sally4sara]

Sally, you are lying..

 

First of all, in Sweden, Denmark, etc only 1-5% of gays have married. I SERIOUSLY doubt that is the reasons gays are spreading less disease. Since such a small number have married (many for immigration purposes 45% in Sweden,perhaps importing a young third world boy to have sex with) education/improved awareness would be responsible for the spread of less diseases.

 

 

Secondly, half the world consists of Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium and Spain. Are you on drugs? That is not even 4% of the world. How do you come up with 50%? And just because a liberal govt changes a law does not mean all the citizens of that country embrace gays. Gay marriage is also VERY new in Spain and Belgium..

 

In many countries gays have no rights and are beaten routinely. So? Gays are far less accepted in most of the world, than they are accepted.

 

http://www.bidstrup.com/marriage.htm

 

This is just one of many journalistic essays that are easily found. I noticed also that there is plenty of sites sounding off all the same things you say too, but they refer to the christian bible for their reasoning. Not really reasoning at that point. Crap like "they'll marry donkeys and sheep!"

You point to newness. This link shoots that down for you too. But I doubt you'll check it out. You only want to hear the hate-filled "facts" that you think make you sound informed.

 

http://secure.financialmail.co.za/07/0302/features/68-02worldmap.jpg

 

A map that shows where gay partnerships have found acceptance. So yeah, roughly half the world. And please don't put words in my posts. I did not say 50%. You can look for yourself though.

 

Still not about sheep.

[Trojan John]

Let's just go back and clearly define marriage as it was in the past: same ethnicity, same religion, women are property. Just as New Testament God™ intended.

 

(Note: Not that wicked, polygamist Morman god.)

 

/facetious

[EnigmaXOXO]

Why isn't a civil union enough?

 

Because there are over 200 benefits/rights that legally recognized marriages provide that civil unions don’t.

 

It’s not so much about all this small-minded bickering over “labels”, rather that same sex couples want the same EQUAL rights that any opposite sex couple has. Having your life partner recognized as your “next of kin” and all the spousal rights that go with being the big dividing factor, here.

 

For instance, a legally married couple will never have to worry about being transferred to another state for work and suddenly finding their marriage is no longer recognized... losing all the rights and benefits that go with. Imagine your partner was hospitalized in such a state, and even though you waved your Civil Union papers in the receptionist’s face, you were still not considered your partners legal “next of kin” and therefore were denied access to their bedside.

 

Gay people aren’t nearly as interested in being welcomed with open arms into your various churches as they are being free from the dogma, tyranny and discrimination that so many of these religious groups perpetuate. Particularly as it pertains to the supposed separation between church and state.

 

Separatist groups are free to pick and choose the pedigree of it’s desired club members, but their prejudice views should never be the deciding factor when it comes to the equal rights of the government’s citizens. Gay people pay their taxes just like the rest of us. They should not be blatantly discriminated against just because of their gender.

 

Doesn’t matter what we call it --- “marriage”, “Civil Union”, or something else. Just so long as the government does what’s necessary to change the laws to insure that ALL of it’s citizens (regardless of race, religion and gender) are treated equally and affored the same rights as everyone else.

[boxing123]

Since we live in a world where roughly half the WORLD recognizes so form of same sex marriage,

 

 

Just WOW!

 

Yes, you are completely LYING.

 

Look at the map you posted..

 

4 countries on YOUR map recognize same sex marriage. In a few more civil unions are recognized. There are over 195 countries on Earth. Do the math. 2.2% of countries who recognize same sex marriage is not half. LMAO.

 

In at least 20-30 countries on your map you can get the death penalty, 10 years in prison, or life in prison just for being GAY!!!!!!!! That is about 10-15% of the world.

 

Every other nation on Earth merely does not throw you in prison for being gay. That is not the same as recognizing gay marriage by a long shot.

 

 

So please tell me how on Earth you read that map to claim "Roughly half the world recognizes same sex marriage"

 

That map reinforces my views even further.. Something odd when you want to normalize something about 25 countries throw you in prison for or kill you for even engaging in.

[Woggle]

These anti-gay marriage people need to get a life. To be so dedicated to something that has no effect whatsoever on anybody's life is just absurd. I really do think that most of them are closet gays or just sheep who repeat rightwing dogma. What sane heterosexual person even concerns themselves with what gays do? What they eat doesn't make me crap.

[Island Girl]

In many countries gays have no rights and are beaten routinely. So? Gays are far less accepted in most of the world, than they are accepted.

 

And your point is?

 

"People all around the world discriminate against homosexuals and routinely beat them so it MUST be okay"?

 

OR

 

"I feel it is my right to impose MY views on homosexuals and deny them the ability to live as they choose to, with all of the same rights that I have, because around the world don't accept them and beat them"?

 

OR

 

"It is okay to deny homosexuals their rights because at least I'm not beating them as others would. So I am not discriminating against them at that level"?

 

 

You are dictating how someone else can live their own life.

 

We are talking about two consenting adults.

 

You keep saying that very few homosexuals would choose to marry.

If that is the case then what effect could those people really have (IF there was even some effect on marriage in the first place)?

 

There is no "definition" of marriage that would be effected. Other than it is between a man and a woman.

 

The definition of marriage and what it means to the two people involved will vary from couple to couple.

 

MY definition isn't the same as yours (CLEARLY).

 

Let each church define it as it will - marry who they will (as they do now).

 

The LAWS of this country should be inclusive as far as rights and equalities.

 

Two adults should be able to commit or not commit to each other in whatever way THEY choose.

No one should choose FOR them.

[manugeorge]

These anti-gay marriage people need to get a life. To be so dedicated to something that has no effect whatsoever on anybody's life is just absurd. I really do think that most of them are closet gays or just sheep who repeat rightwing dogma. What sane heterosexual person even concerns themselves with what gays do? What they eat doesn't make me crap.

 

This is exactly what I don't understand. For one to be so bored and purposeless in one's own life to be so concerned with another's puzzles me to no end. I don't know how gay marriage takes food out of ANYONE's mouth and none of these posters have been able to articulate how exactly gay marriage affects them personally.

 

Gay people are living, feeling, breathing, tax paying, productive members of society just like the heteros who despise them so. If only the hatemongers can just take a moment to see that. NOTHING makes you better than a gay person. You may think you are somehow superior but you're just fooling yourself and it's so apparent for all to see.

[sally4sara]

Just WOW!

 

Yes, you are completely LYING.

 

Look at the map you posted..

 

4 countries on YOUR map recognize same sex marriage. In a few more civil unions are recognized. There are over 195 countries on Earth. Do the math. 2.2% of countries who recognize same sex marriage is not half. LMAO.

 

In at least 20-30 countries on your map you can get the death penalty, 10 years in prison, or life in prison just for being GAY!!!!!!!! That is about 10-15% of the world.

 

Every other nation on Earth merely does not throw you in prison for being gay. That is not the same as recognizing gay marriage by a long shot.

 

 

So please tell me how on Earth you read that map to claim "Roughly half the world recognizes same sex marriage"

 

That map reinforces my views even further.. Something odd when you want to normalize something about 25 countries throw you in prison for or kill you for even engaging in.

 

Can you read?!?

 

I did NOT say roughly half the world has made gay marriage legal. I said roughly half the world has made room for same sex partnership. Partnership is a broad term.

 

I'm done trying with you Boxing. You cannot even take in associative reasoning without your brain melting and getting confused about what is said. Every single element of information needs to be broken down to the level an 8 yr old would understand. We end up not even discussing the topic with you because you're too busy trying SO HARD to not use logic or reasoning. I fear this topic is beyond you.

If you look again at the map, you will see more than two colors being used for the key as well as more than two groups being shown. I know you deal in a world of black and white, but that is irrational and unrealistic. The map was not broken down into "gays die in the streets" VS "gays get free BJs with their marriage certificate". There was every variation from legal gay marriage, to legal civil union, to limited legislation, to no laws for it OR against it, to illegal with penalties, to illegal with harsher penalties, to punishable by death. SEVEN different situation that are all relative to each other.

 

And I can't believe I had to type all that since it was clearly listed for you in the map's key. If you cannot pick up on that, everyone in this thread and the time they've spent on you has been a comical waste of effort.

[39388]

I'm done trying with you Boxing. You cannot even take in associative reasoning without your brain melting and getting confused about what is said. Every single element of information needs to be broken down to the level an 8 yr old would understand.

I think with Boxing, it may be more like a 2 year old. It is impossible to reason with him on any topic.

[Island Girl]

Can you read?!?

 

Being able to read and being able to comprehend what is read are two different things.

[sally4sara]

If you look at the size of all the countries which, as S4S says, "...shows where gay partnerships have found acceptance," it IS roughly half of the world. And actually READ what she says rather than trying to find some nit to pick in a vain attempt to solidify your VERY shaky ground on the subject. She didn't say "gay marriage," she said, "shows where gay partnerships have found acceptance," which is a FAR cry from what you are bleating on about.

 

Thanks donna, but I think its a lost cause. I don't remember him ever posting on any topic using anything close to logic. I usually don't bother providing links because its all easily found on teh intarwebs by anyone who seeks it out. I thought maybe boxing is using a limited access connection and has no home connection. He is limited in some other way that cannot be helped on-line.

 

Somewhere, many pages ago, I remember someone from the con side thinking gay marriage won't be commonly legal in the U.S. for about 10 years. I don't think it will take that long for MOST of the U.S. to pass it, but it will be interesting which states hold out the longest. When the first state passed it some of my fundie family talked about how all the gays should/could/would move there. I cannot wait to suggest to them down the road, they should/could/would all move to the last state holding out. I'm thinking either SC or AL.

[39388]

Thanks donna, but I think its a lost cause. I don't remember him ever posting on any topic using anything close to logic. I usually don't bother providing links because its all easily found on teh intarwebs by anyone who seeks it out. I thought maybe boxing is using a limited access connection and has no home connection. He is limited in some other way that cannot be helped on-line.

 

Somewhere, many pages ago, I remember someone from the con side thinking gay marriage won't be commonly legal in the U.S. for about 10 years. I don't think it will take that long for MOST of the U.S. to pass it, but it will be interesting which states hold out the longest. When the first state passed it some of my fundie family talked about how all the gays should/could/would move there. I cannot wait to suggest to them down the road, they should/could/would all move to the last state holding out. I'm thinking either SC or AL.

I wish it would be legal now, but I'm afraid it might be many years for the whole country. These fundamentalists are crazy and in some states they make up a large percent of the population. States like SC or AL will probably be among the last.

 

This year, there's a good chance employment non discrimination will pass. Some on the far right in the senate may try a filibuster so that is not even a guarantee. This legislation is long long overdue.

[amerikajin]

These anti-gay marriage people need to get a life. To be so dedicated to something that has no effect whatsoever on anybody's life is just absurd. I really do think that most of them are closet gays or just sheep who repeat rightwing dogma. What sane heterosexual person even concerns themselves with what gays do? What they eat doesn't make me crap.

 

Some people are obsessed with controlling the lives of other people. It probably stems from latent dissatisfaction with their own lives, whatever the source may be. I don't think the majority of anti-gay people are themselves trying to hide latent homosexuality; I think it's more a fear of being perceived to be gay by other like-minded people. They're not necessarily afraid of their sexuality; they're afraid of their sexual identity and how it's perceived by others.

[cn283]

What's sad is when you give them actual facts, they either A) ignore them or B) take bits and pieces and distort the facts for their own use. It's like creationism vs. evolution, funny how in most cases we're talking about the same people...