Why are people mean to generally nice people?

[Meaplus3]

Wow! You guys have really blown this topic up! Thanks for all your insight.

 

Now, let me throw a wrench into this: Say the genuinely nice person is also extremely attractive and pretty smart. Do you think that has a factor into the negative treatment as well?

 

Big time Yes.

 

 

 

It's possible we have a different definition of what constitutes an honestly nice person.

 

None of this is personal, in any way, so I hope no one, including yourself is taking this personally. It's okay to have differing opinions!

 

Yes.. that's possible. And just for the record I'm not taking this personally.

 

Mea:)

[Taramere]

Now, let me throw a wrench into this: Say the genuinely nice person is also extremely attractive and pretty smart. Do you think that has a factor into the negative treatment as well?

 

I think that the more they have going for them in terms of looks, talent, popularity etc, the more possible it is that ill-treatment from others is related to envy. The most common scenario would probably be in the workplace where people have to deal regularly with others who they wouldn't normally choose to socialise with. A smart person will find an effective method of dealing with the conflicts such a situation throws up. A victim will remain in the drama of it all.

 

If I were trying to help someone who was having difficulty with jealous colleagues, encouraging them further into the "they're jealous" mindset would be the last thing I'd do. The more a person is ensconsed in thinking that way, the more likely they'll give off an unappealing combination of self aggrandisement and self pity....which could alienate people (eg senior colleagues) who might otherwise be supportive.

 

I would say that ultimately, unless you have some clear indication that other people's hostility stems from unacceptable behaviour on your part, you should assume that it's their problem...but not waste too much time in trying to analyse why they would have a problem with you. The emphasis should be on giving them the message that you won't tolerate any more sh*t.

 

Is there a real life scenario you're struggling with that prompted this thread?

[RecordProducer]

Most people are multi-faceted, in that they have a nice side and a not-so-nice side. Sometimes people are so concerned about what other people think of them, that they put on a "nice person facade". Saying nice things all the time, does not equate to being a generally nice person. It's actions that matter.

 

Perhaps I'm cynical about people due to my line of business. Some of the worst things done, have been done by people deemed as "generally nice people".

True, and this reminds me of my hsuabnd. Everyone who has a superficial type of relationship with him (e.g. new friends) thinks of him as the kindest person they've ever met. He even had ex-GF's with whom he never showed his true colors becauyse he didn't care aboutt hem, so it was easy to be always nice. But he dumped these women. It's sad that they have no clue as to who he really is and that the only reason why he was nice to them was because he didnt give a rat's ass about them.

 

People put a mask of the trait that they lack. If they're mean and selfish, they'll try to present themselves from day one as generous and selfless, because they are obsessed with these things. They see themselevs from the inside, and know what they lack, so they'll try to convince you and themselves that they're wonderful in every way.

 

your weakness theory is probably the best answer I could give, too, KM. Add to the mix a chronically unhappy person who can ONLY feel better about him/herself by torturing another with cruel behavior, and you see how that works.

Some people, like some of my in-laws, are just plain mean and empoty, and they'll attack anyine who is an easy target. I guess that helps them forget about their own problems and flaws.

 

a)They're less afraid of that person.

 

b)What they can get away with.

Taramere, great posts, as usual. These two motives actually point out that mean people have ther NEED to be mean and they're just looking for a victim, an easy target. They might also find soemoen who is not accepted by everyone else, and then make up a story in which they had a reason to be eman. This is what happened to me witu my sister-in-law. She felt like beign mean and she had to justify her behavior by painting me as the bad guy. She thought she could get away with it and she did. My hsband doesn't speak to her or his twin brother anymore because of that (she attacked himtoo), but she got what she wanted: she got rid of my husband. And she has all the support from my hsuband's father even though my husband did nothing wrong to her.

[Trialbyfire]

As a definition for "generally nice, happy people", IMO, it's reliant on level of selfless actions, not just to personally feel good about self, but to honestly do things that are selfless.

 

This could include putting back into the community, donating to charitable causes, preventing abusive behaviours, all done anonymously. Some other examples of this, are mothers who selflessly give to their children but don't pull the martyr "look what I've done for you" or "look what I've sacrificed for you", *big, motherish sigh*. The minute you trumpet your supposedly selfless actions, they're no longer selfless.

 

Okay, 'nuff of the Ayn Randishness!

 

As for the workplace, yes, stay out of the drama! Keep your head down and do a great job. Be a leader when it matters and don't second guess your leaders. Someone will notice how effectively you get things done, without drama!

[TaraMaiden]

Mind is the forerunner of (all evil) states. Mind is chief; mind-made are they. If one speaks or acts with wicked mind, suffering follows one, even as the wheel follows the hoof of the draught-ox.

 

Mind is the forerunner of (all good) states. Mind is chief; mind-made are they. If one speaks or acts with pure mind, AFFECTION follows one, even as one's shadow that never leaves.

 

He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,'' in those who harbour such thoughts hatred is not appeased.

He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,'' in those who do not harbour such thoughts hatred is appeased.

 

 

Hate is not overcome by hate; by Love (Metta) alone is hate appeased. This is an eternal law.

 

This is where this comes from. This teaching is nearly 3000 years old.

 

 

If you think in genuinely positive and constructive ways, you will speak in genuinely positive and constructive ways and you will act in genuinely positive and constructive ways.

 

If you harbour anger, envy, resentment and animosity in your heart, your attitude towards others will be tainted.

To make your attitude untainted, do not harbour such sentiments.

 

After a while, being rude, churlish and ungracious towards somebody who is always genuinely good, will come back and hit you in the face. you will suffer, they won't.

 

 

I have most certainly personally put this last one to the test on more than one occasion. and it has worked.

I have also not put it to the test on other occasions. Each time, I suffered....

 

_/l\_

[Eve]

I don't get it, it absolutely blows my mind how often honestly nice, happy people get so much crap from others.

 

Any ideas/theories as to why?

 

I think it has something to do with how people formulate comparisons. I always say to my kids to not compare themselves too much with others because this can encourage a person to become tinged with vanity or bitterness. So, I suppose once a person becomes something only to compare oneself to it is likely that they can be perceived in a negative, vulnerable, less human way.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[TaraMaiden]

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

This was not stated by Louise Hay, but by Fu S-hi in around 1,500 BC.

 

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/when_the_student_is_ready-the_teacher_will/181633.html

 

it is true that many have used it as a worthy quotation since then.

It is a very true quotation, also.

 

 

_/l\_

[Ariadne]

Any ideas/theories as to why?

 

People are not mean to nice people. On the opposite, they are nice back.

 

They are mean when they are being pissed off or are extremely exhausted.

 

The problem is that everyone believes they are being nice all the time.

[Taramere]

People are not mean to nice people. On the opposite, they are nice back.

 

Except if you go into a shop where the staff are a bit rough and ready. Being nice to them can get you an unfriendly/mocking/embarrassed response because they associate manners with snobbery and resent being put in a position where they have to try to be nice back.

 

I've learned that in certain shops it's best to keep any interaction with the staff brief and minimal. Especially if it's some 17 year old behind the counter who can't bear to so much as make eye contact with customers. They usually seem to appreciate it.

[Eve]

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

This was not stated by Louise Hay, but by Fu S-hi in around 1,500 BC.

 

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/when_the_student_is_ready-the_teacher_will/181633.html

 

it is true that many have used it as a worthy quotation since then.

It is a very true quotation, also.

 

 

_/l\_

 

Thanks for the link. Some elements of Buddism are highly useful methinks. I did not know that my current quote originates from a Buddist Principle!

 

As for Louise, I like her a lot. She is one of my many heroes. Following is a link for anyone who is inerested in finding out more about her and her life philosophies. I like anything which looks at the 'doing' elements of interactions which resound in the soul as being true, relevant, worthwhile and achievable - whilst still allowing elements of mystery to unfold.

 

 

http://www.louisehay.com/about/index.php

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[You'reasian]

 

People put a mask of the trait that they lack. If they're mean and selfish, they'll try to present themselves from day one as generous and selfless, because they are obsessed with these things. They see themselevs from the inside, and know what they lack, so they'll try to convince you and themselves that they're wonderful in every way.

 

 

And if someone presents themselves as mean and selfish from day one, they're really generous and selfless - as they see themselves from the inside and know they lack the true ability to be mean and thus convince everyone that they're mean in every possible way?

[TaraMaiden]

I read her book, loaned to me by a friend. It's called 'You can heal your life'. She has many interesting ideas and some very good working principles,and many good suggestions for people to use to make good progress....

She is very charismatic.

[Storyrider]

The term "nice" implies a certain kind of demeanor and manner. Someone who is sunny and polite comes to mind. Anyone can behave nicely. Sometimes this niceness is just a mask for survival. Obviously I'm just paraphrasing what others have said.

 

I'd divide the above type into two sub-types. (A) Someone who is out for themselves and uses the niceness as a ploy to get what they want in the moment. (B) Someone who is insecure and wants to be liked at all costs and so stuffs their own opinions and feelings in the hopes that if they are bland and sweet, everyone must like them.

 

Type A tends to inspire distrust in me, while Type B tends to makes me dismissive. Because the only way to never offend is to be boring. Not only that, but by pretending to have no opinions or quirks in order to be likable, the nice person is lying down and going "belly up." This in turn makes me lose respect and not see them as an equal.

 

I would reserve a third category for people who are genuinely kind but don't take any shxt. I'm attracted to those people and have a lot of respect for them.

[RecordProducer]

And if someone presents themselves as mean and selfish from day one' date=' they're really generous and selfless - as they see themselves from the inside and know they lack the true ability to be mean and thus convince everyone that they're mean in every possible way? [/quote']If this is how you interpreted my post, then what YOU lack is intelligence.

[You'reasian]

If this is how you interpreted my post, then what YOU lack is intelligence.

 

Its not about my interpretation, its about what you stated

 

and what you believe to be true.

 

You stated "people put on a mask of the trait they lack" that's your belief, your words.

[Isolde]

Mea, straight up, 9/10, I've found that people who pretend to be nice on the outside, aren't so nice on the inside. That doesn't mean that nice, happy people don't exist. They're just not in abundance.

 

I've only known one truly nice person IRL, where goodness shone through her, inside and outside. ALL her actions, meshed with her words.

 

Are you saying that most of the good people you know act gruff or tough on the exterior, then?

[TaraMaiden]

There is no denying we are all capable of very good thoughts/words/acts, and we are all capable of less good thoughts/words/acts.

The secret is personal evaluation and cultivation of characteristics you know are positive and beneficial, and the gradual elimination of those you personally know to be negative and detrimental.

This cannot happen overnight.

I know this to be true.

 

But with practice and Mindfulness, it can be achieved......

[Taramere]

Are you saying that most of the good people you know act gruff or tough on the exterior, then?

 

I think similarly to TBF on this, so I can't resist answering.

 

A lot of things in life aren't particularly fair. A lot of people don't behave in particularly fair ways. There are four ways of responding to that, as far as I can see.

 

1. You participate in the "every person for themselves" approach and shaft others while providing yourself with some acceptable (to you) rationale as to why they had it coming.

 

2. You accept, philosophically, that life isn't always fair and decide it's not worth kicking up a fuss about it.

 

3. You moan, but do nothing to attempt to redress the balance because you don't want to kick up a fuss.

 

4. You kick up a fuss.

 

Any normal person might pick any one of those 4 options depending on their circumstances and mood at the time. I think people who define themselves as "nice" frequently pick option 3. They're nice and easy to be around, because they don't kick up a fuss....but when you need someone to cover your back, you're probably best with either a 1 (provided they have some personal investment in protecting you) or a 4.

[OpenBook]

Its not about my interpretation, its about what you stated

 

and what you believe to be true.

 

You stated "people put on a mask of the trait they lack" that's your belief, your words.

 

I have also found this to be true IME. When someone proclaims certain traits about themselves a little too loudly and often - that's a red flag right there. They're masking something they don't want you to see, something they're deeply insecure about. And often there is someone else whom they perceive as threatening to them... so the self-bragging is often accompanied by cutting words and put-downs of others.

 

It's the quiet ones who manifest their virtues through their actions, not their words, who impress me.

[Taramere]

I have also found this to be true IME. When someone proclaims certain traits about themselves a little too loudly and often - that's a red flag right there. They're masking something they don't want you to see, something they're deeply insecure about.

 

I found this with an ex boyfriend. His thing was "I believe in honesty, even if it's brutal honesty. I detest liars and pack followers." His friends all sang the same tune. They didn't go so far as to openly backslap eachother on their unusual levels of honesty and superb, individualistic characters, but the extent to which they berated the rest of the world for its dishonesty and hypocrisy achieved a similar effect. As it turned out, he was as much of a liar and social chameleon as the average person. No more, no less....but the hypocrisy and grandiose self delusion about who and what he was created shock value and anger.

 

It's the same with self proclaimed goodness. What does it actually mean when someone tells you that about themselves? Does it mean good in comparison to others who are less worthy of the label? Or "trust me/like me...I'm a good person"? Or is it a statement of intention...eg "sometimes I screw things up, but I don't do so out of malice.."?

 

Then the other extreme..."I'm a heartless bitch/bastard really, and I make no apologies for it." In other words "I like adopt an air of arrogant mightiness, and hope that if I make a convincing enough psychopath others will be too afraid to impose consequences on me."

 

Here's what should happen to them:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOQVtZGfeS0

[You'reasian]

I have also found this to be true IME. When someone proclaims certain traits about themselves a little too loudly and often - that's a red flag right there. They're masking something they don't want you to see, something they're deeply insecure about. And often there is someone else whom they perceive as threatening to them... so the self-bragging is often accompanied by cutting words and put-downs of others.

 

It's the quiet ones who manifest their virtues through their actions, not their words, who impress me.

 

I can agree with this to an extent, just like how I got verbally blasted in the response thread and I'm okay with that

 

You bring up an excellent point about those who cut down frequently and put down others - something that we're all guilty of at one time or another - but how about if the face you front is a direct reflection of your talents and interests - and not fake?

 

Should you hide your talents? interests?

 

Should tiger woods pretend like he sucks at golf - or to make it realistic for us humans, the guy who doesn't need a handicap on 18 holes?

[Trialbyfire]

I think similarly to TBF on this, so I can't resist answering.

 

A lot of things in life aren't particularly fair. A lot of people don't behave in particularly fair ways. There are four ways of responding to that, as far as I can see.

 

1. You participate in the "every person for themselves" approach and shaft others while providing yourself with some acceptable (to you) rationale as to why they had it coming.

 

2. You accept, philosophically, that life isn't always fair and decide it's not worth kicking up a fuss about it.

 

3. You moan, but do nothing to attempt to redress the balance because you don't want to kick up a fuss.

 

4. You kick up a fuss.

 

Any normal person might pick any one of those 4 options depending on their circumstances and mood at the time. I think people who define themselves as "nice" frequently pick option 3. They're nice and easy to be around, because they don't kick up a fuss....but when you need someone to cover your back, you're probably best with either a 1 (provided they have some personal investment in protecting you) or a 4.

I agree with this.

 

Also, I think Isolde, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, you're confusing good people with nice, happy people. My definition of a good person is someone who has a balance of both kick-arse and fairly altruistic traits. If you go back and look at my definition of an honestly nice, happy person, they're few and far between. Most nice, happy people aren't so nice and happy within their thoughts. When people are pushovers to your face, if enough resentment builds up from an inability to handle conflict or fear, it will come back to you in passive-aggressive ways.

[OpenBook]

I can agree with this to an extent' date=' just like [b']how I got verbally blasted in the response thread[/b] and I'm okay with that

 

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you think I blasted you in my response? If it came across that way, my apologies - it certainly wasn't my intention.

 

You bring up an excellent point about those who cut down frequently and put down others - something that we're all guilty of at one time or another - but how about if the face you front is a direct reflection of your talents and interests - and not fake?

 

Should you hide your talents? interests?

 

Should tiger woods pretend like he sucks at golf - or to make it realistic for us humans, the guy who doesn't need a handicap on 18 holes?

 

No, not at all. But if Tiger has any class (and he does - LOADS of it) he wouldn't make a point of telling everyone he sees, wherever he goes, that he's a golf champion. He doesn't have to - everybody already knows it.

 

Class is hard to define... but there's a way to share your talents with others, without talking about it incessantly and shoving it down other people's throats.

[Isolde]

I think similarly to TBF on this, so I can't resist answering.

 

A lot of things in life aren't particularly fair. A lot of people don't behave in particularly fair ways. There are four ways of responding to that, as far as I can see.

 

1. You participate in the "every person for themselves" approach and shaft others while providing yourself with some acceptable (to you) rationale as to why they had it coming.

 

2. You accept, philosophically, that life isn't always fair and decide it's not worth kicking up a fuss about it.

 

3. You moan, but do nothing to attempt to redress the balance because you don't want to kick up a fuss.

 

4. You kick up a fuss.

 

Any normal person might pick any one of those 4 options depending on their circumstances and mood at the time. I think people who define themselves as "nice" frequently pick option 3. They're nice and easy to be around, because they don't kick up a fuss....but when you need someone to cover your back, you're probably best with either a 1 (provided they have some personal investment in protecting you) or a 4.

 

IMO, "nice" is a superficial way of dealing with things, which doesn't necessarily mean that you're a "good" person overall or could even be a manifestation of passive aggressiveness (in this, I agree with your paradigm); but then, too, nice could be a reflection of inner goodness (which is where I depart from you and TBF).

[You'reasian]

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you think I blasted you in my response? If it came across that way, my apologies - it certainly wasn't my intention.

 

 

 

No, not at all. But if Tiger has any class (and he does - LOADS of it) he wouldn't make a point of telling everyone he sees, wherever he goes, that he's a golf champion. He doesn't have to - everybody already knows it.

 

Class is hard to define... but there's a way to share your talents with others, without talking about it incessantly and shoving it down other people's throats.

 

It was in response to Record Producer who responded with a quick blast after I challenged her statement and I agree - personally, I tend to talk about talents more slowly because - its not about me, its about "us".