Men and Women and Porn and Strip Clubs

[sally4sara]

I answered your question Sally. What exactly have I dodged? As I stated, this being my third time stating this, there is a HUGE difference between what you do with your partner in a personal relationship then what goes on between two people doing a porno. There is a huge difference between a man taping *his* lady and later using it for his pleasure then there is a man watching other women and getting off to other women. That's my opinion and it's not going to change any more then yours is. But don't accuse me of not answering your quesiton just because you don't like the response when I answered it three times already. And yes, I still think mainstream porn is degrading to women.

 

So now you DO think the answer is women creating porn for men so they don't degrade females by watching porn.

 

I apologize, I didn't feel that was what you were advocating when I first asked you this the first time. I really though you said there was a difference between porn "for couples" rather than porn "for men" and the porn for couples was acceptable porn.

 

So that isn't what you said? Okay. Then we are back to you feeling women should make porn of themselves for the use of their male partner. Which has me back to asking you:

 

If all porn is degrading to women, why would you advocate this? How do you reconcile each woman potentially making such porn and then if the relationship fails - they have an ex with pornographic material of them?

 

The huge difference between porn and what ME and MY partner do is unknown to you so you can't say what that difference is. That is why I was asking you what the difference is between what you found acceptable and what is mainstream porn.

Which just leads us back to the beginning of this very post. This is not a differing of opinion Jersey because I have not expressed any opinion. I have asked a question you keep talking in circles to avoid while I am just trying to understand you. Its obvious you have strong views on this subject. What do you propose be done about it?

 

Either you feel we all make porn or you have an opinion of what is acceptable porn. If you feel it is a bad idea for women to be porn stars, what is this approved porn you spoke of earlier?

[sally4sara]

As for your second part of thequestion. I think "porn" made for two people tobe viewed by two people is different then porn made for the masses. If you really dont' see the difference, I would question you.

 

This, right here.

 

I'm asking for an explanation of what this is.

 

You deflected by suggesting if I don't know, then I gots issues.

 

Which I got to tell ya, chaps my ass because its the same thing as the pro porn side telling you that you're insecure and controlling for your opinion.

[missdependant]

Jersey Shortie should just look into the way of the Nun, Sisterhood. Let's face it, she was never going to get laid with her poor outlook on Men anyways.

 

If I go to piss and shake my **** three times does that make me an unfaithful boyfriend who doesn't respect his GF? Damn, what has the world come to?!

 

Let me refer you to an aid for your sexual frustration Jersey Shortie:

 

http://www.sextoyparty.com/choosingadildo.html

 

They even have one in Red since you're so far up the right wing you couldn't turn blue in the face if you held your breath. "Anybody with a sexuality is the Devil!" - JerseyShortie.

 

 

This is probably the only thing I will ever agree with you on.. and on the subject of sex toy parties.. they're really common where I live. Personally, I don't see a big difference between a visit to the strip club and a sex toy party.

[IrishCarBomb]

But at the end of the day, most men will continue to go to strip clubs and view porn and think about banging the girl down the street or whatever. Because that's what matters to men.

 

And when we all hit 60, as women, we can watch the men we thought loved us and at one time thought we were sexy and special oggle and lear at women not even half their age because again, that's what really matter to most men. Or so it seems how it is in today's world.

 

I'm sorry you feel this way.

[Jersey Shortie]

So now you DO think the answer is women creating porn for men so they don't degrade females by watching porn.

 

Sally, where did I ever say the answer was this? *You* said that.

 

I apologize, I didn't feel that was what you were advocating when I first asked you this the first time. I really though you said there was a difference between porn "for couples" rather than porn "for men" and the porn for couples was acceptable porn.

 

Considering how I feel about porn, it's a little weird to assume that I all the sudden think porn is okay if viewed together as a couple. I don't even understand how watching it as a couple makes porn use any different. He watches it with his partner or watches it by himself, he is still viewing other women in demeaning situations to self gratify himself and then possibly use his partner to finish the job.

 

So that isn't what you said? Okay. Then we are back to you feeling women should make porn of themselves for the use of their male partner. Which has me back to asking you:

 

Please stop insisting to tell me what I feel. I NEVER mentioned that the answer was women making porn of themselves. I think my arguments ran the line of using self control more times then not. I guess it can be an option for a couple. I think a woman making a video of herself or her partner making one of her for just the two of them, and him or her watching it, is vastly different then looking at porn off the internet of women. I mean, you seriously don't see the difference? Come on. You don't get why a movie producded by a triple x corporation is different then a couple making a movie of themselves? Maybe you don't consider them different things but I certainly do. I think most people would. Considering the numerous factors that make the two situations entirely different.

 

 

If all porn is degrading to women, why would you advocate this? How do you reconcile each woman potentially making such porn and then if the relationship fails - they have an ex with pornographic material of them?

 

Where did I advocate this? I see that you advocated it but I never did.

 

I think your argument is a little convuleted to tie in a relationship breaking up and a couple making a video together for themselves and that somehow proves what? How does making a couple making a video of themselves have anything to do with the possibility of the relationship ending? What the real issue here for you? Because the issue for me has been the fact that 1) Men often turn to so many outside sources of gratification with in a relationship. 2) The way the porn industry depicts and uses and stereotypes women in a way that is less true to their feminine nature and more true to male fantantasies.

 

I do think porn is degrading to women. I don't think a *porn* made by two people in a relationship to be shared between them is quite the same situation as porn produced for the masses and used by the masses to pleasure themselves to. I think what goes on between a couple is VASTLY different then what goes on between two people that are hired to bleep each other. I think a man focusing on his partner and watching her is vastly different then a man watching 10 + 18 year olds get bleeped from behind while she gets called a slut. I think if two people are sharing between themselves, without using outside sources, it's vastly different. Is the act of sex theoretically the same? Of course. Who would argue otherwise? Does that make the situations the same? Of course not.

 

 

Which just leads us back to the beginning of this very post. This is not a differing of opinion Jersey because I have not expressed any opinion. I have asked a question you keep talking in circles to avoid while I am just trying to understand you. Its obvious you have strong views on this subject. What do you propose be done about it?

 

Sally, I think you have talked in circles actually and have forced words on me I never said. I gave you an answer three times and you disliked the answer I gave. That's what it comes down to. This post, making it 4 times in this thread. I am not sure what more you want me to say. I think I have said many times that men , and of course women, should use more self control. I don't eat a cookie or ice cream every time I have the desire to do so. I don't huff and puff at my guy the minute I feel like it. i am not perfect but i work damn hard to control both those things. I ask the same from men. Too often we justify male behavior because he is a "male". When I want a man that wants to be more then just "male". Who wants to be a man and stand by my side and not self gratify himself the second he feels he needs to. We talk about women being so emotional but men are pretty emotional themselves obviously.

 

You deflected by suggesting if I don't know, then I gots issues.

 

Which I got to tell ya, chaps my ass because its the same thing as the pro porn side telling you that you're insecure and controlling for your opinion.

 

It chaps my ass that you keep asking me the same question and telling me I deflected something that I infact answered. I don't think you like my answer or you might not understand it. Either way, we clearly don't view it the same way. And just because I answer your question in a way I see it, doesn't mean I am deflecting anything. I am actually very FAIR in this regard and always do my best to answer questoins.

[Jersey Shortie]

This is probably the only thing I will ever agree with you on.. and on the subject of sex toy parties.. they're really common where I live. Personally, I don't see a big difference between a visit to the strip club and a sex toy party.

 

Sex toy parties are usually hosted for women, by women and is a goofy thing. Strip clubs have real live women, offering sexually excited services to real life men. You really don't see a difference between an inanimate object and a real human being?

 

I'm sorry you feel this way.

 

I am too Irish but that seems to be how it is with guys.

[AAlike]

Sex toy parties are usually hosted for women, by women and is a goofy thing. Strip clubs have real live women, offering sexually excited services to real life men. You really don't see a difference between an inanimate object and a real human being?

 

You really don't see a difference between a video and a real human being?

[Jersey Shortie]

You really don't see a difference between a video and a real human being?

 

I see the difference between something shaped like a penis that isn't and is one part compared to watching x amount of real life women in a video AALike. I'd be more okay with my male partner using a sex toy, like a fake vagina, then I would him using porn.

 

What happens when I finally get married, have his kids, grow old, Dude is still goign to be viewing porn of 20 year olds? Is that what most men do? How do men think should make women feel? Good? Happy ? Thankful? You give your life to a guy, give yoru body to him to have his kids and he is going to drool over 20 year olds for the rest of your years.

[mr.dream merchant]

Telling a guy he's a douche/asshat for looking at women is like telling a chick she's a golddigger for window shopping at the mall. Rofl..YEAH OKAY!

[missdependant]

Sex toy parties are usually hosted for women, by women and is a goofy thing. Strip clubs have real live women, offering sexually excited services to real life men. You really don't see a difference between an inanimate object and a real human being?

 

 

No, I don't... because the chicks at these parties COULD be buying these things as "replacements" for their boyfriend. And they COULD be talking about how much their SO sucks in bed and that's why they want to buy them. Just like a man COULD be talking about going to the club because of how horrible his wife or girlfriend is, and to "replace" his girlfriend.

 

But the reality of it is that they AREN'T. Both are most likely just out for a good time, and a few laughs.

[mr.dream merchant]

No, I don't... because the chicks at these parties COULD be buying these things as "replacements" for their boyfriend. And they COULD be talking about how much their SO sucks in bed and that's why they want to buy them. Just like a man COULD be talking about going to the club because of how horrible his wife or girlfriend is, and to "replace" his girlfriend.

 

But the reality of it is that they AREN'T. Both are most likely just out for a good time, and a few laughs.

 

Aint that the truth. Amen.

[carhill]

Telling a guy he's a douche/asshat for looking at women is like telling a chick she's a golddigger for window shopping at the mall. Rofl..YEAH OKAY!

LOL, and, lest we forget, those asshats are getting laid and validated by Mrs. I am normal hear me roar.

[Jersey Shortie]

Telling a guy he's a douche/asshat for looking at women is like telling a chick she's a golddigger for window shopping at the mall. Rofl..YEAH OKAY!

 

I didn't say a guy was a douche or asshat for looking at women. why can't men focus on their women though instead of focusing on every woman that isn't his? I mean, really. You're the guy that bragged how his girl didn't even want to work with men. WORK with them for Christmas sake. You puffed your chest out like a peacock. And then ahve to nerve to go on about how it's good and fine if you go to a strip club.

 

No, I don't... because the chicks at these parties COULD be buying these things as "replacements" for their boyfriend. And they COULD be talking about how much their SO sucks in bed and that's why they want to buy them. Just like a man COULD be talking about going to the club because of how horrible his wife or girlfriend is, and to "replace" his girlfriend.

 

But the reality of it is that they AREN'T. Both are most likely just out for a good time, and a few laughs.

 

why don't you compare female sex toys to male sex toys? Why compare real women to an inanimate object?

[missdependant]

 

why don't you compare female sex toys to male sex toys? Why compare real women to an inanimate object?

 

 

You have selective reading issues.. no one can help you with that. You missed the entire point of my post.

 

I didn't say a guy was a douche or asshat for looking at women. why can't men focus on their women though instead of focusing on every woman that isn't his?

 

They aren't focusing. They're glancing.

[Jersey Shortie]

You have selective reading issues.. no one can help you with that.

 

You're the one comparing real women to inanimate objects.

[missdependant]

You're the one comparing real women to inanimate objects.

 

Are both of them not used as tools?

[samspade]

You have selective reading issues.. no one can help you with that. You missed the entire point of my post.

 

You can't win an argument with the resident puritan who thinks she knows what's best for everyone else. JS is going to parse your words and take them out of context no matter how logical or fair your argument is.

 

For those who want to enjoy porn or strippers, don't worry about what the shamers say. Live your life the way you want to and enjoy the company of open-minded people who aren't so judgmental.

 

Let others wallow in their puritanical bitterness.

[AAlike]

I see the difference between something shaped like a penis that isn't and is one part compared to watching x amount of real life women in a video AALike. I'd be more okay with my male partner using a sex toy, like a fake vagina, then I would him using porn.

 

and that makes complete sense given your inability to shift perspective.

 

think about what you are saying here and how silly it sounds. you are drawing a completely arbitrary line here that is only being shaped by your own jealousy.

 

What happens when I finally get married, have his kids, grow old, Dude is still goign to be viewing porn of 20 year olds? Is that what most men do? How do men think should make women feel? Good? Happy ? Thankful? You give your life to a guy, give yoru body to him to have his kids and he is going to drool over 20 year olds for the rest of your years.

 

of course not. that's a completely ridiculous scenario. your tendency to only see things in extremes has made you bitter and incapable of rational thought.

 

I'm not sure exactly what rendered you this way - maybe if you shed some light on your personal experiences, perhaps that might help?

[Jersey Shortie]

Are both of them not used as tools?

 

 

Why not compare a male sex toy, a fake vagina to a female sex toy, a fake penis? Isn't that the more logical comparison?

 

 

You can't win an argument with the resident puritan who thinks she knows what's best for everyone else. JS is going to parse your words and take them out of context no matter how logical or fair your argument is.

 

For those who want to enjoy porn or strippers, don't worry about what the shamers say. Live your life the way you want to and enjoy the company of open-minded people who aren't so judgmental.

 

Let others wallow in their puritanical bitterness.

 

Please Sam, you're not any more "logical" about this topic. Talk about judgmental. I guess it's okay to be judgmental if it's comments refering to "puritanical bitterness" huh? That judgemental is okay right? I love it. I admit I have judgements, YOU do too my snide friend. This topic wouldn't be debated so heartily if people thought they had it all figured out.

[Jersey Shortie]

and that makes complete sense given your inability to shift perspective.

 

think about what you are saying here and how silly it sounds. you are drawing a completely arbitrary line here that is only being shaped by your own jealousy.

 

 

Why is it silly? Isn't it logical that a male sex toy like a fake vagina is more comparable to a female sex toy like a fake penis????? I think you are silly for just writing that complete bs response above that makes no sense.

 

 

of course not. that's a completely ridiculous scenario. your tendency to only see things in extremes has made you bitter and incapable of rational thought.

 

Then tell me what happens? And I find it really offensive that yuo make accusations like I am "incapable of rational throught" and what? You're "rational" thought process is so superior???? Give me abreak. That's cruel. If you really felt that way you wouldn't try to debate with me. You say that to belittle me and that's wrong.

 

 

I'm not sure exactly what rendered you this way - maybe if you shed some light on your personal experiences, perhaps that might help?

 

Why would I share my personal experiences with you after you just put me down?

[AAlike]

Why is it silly? Isn't it logical that a male sex toy like a fake vagina is more comparable to a female sex toy like a fake penis????? I think you are silly for just writing that complete bs response above that makes no sense.

 

they're ALL comparable - it's all a simulation of sex! you are drawing a completely arbitrary line that is based off of what gets a female off - the exact same thing that you've accused men of doing (which is completely accurate, by the way).

 

Then tell me what happens? And I find it really offensive that yuo make accusations like I am "incapable of rational throught" and what? You're "rational" thought process is so superior???? Give me abreak. That's cruel. If you really felt that way you wouldn't try to debate with me. You say that to belittle me and that's wrong.

 

you have suggested that just about everyone that has disagreed with you in any fashion in this thread, including me, "has issues", so spare me the victim act.

 

yes, i don't believe that you are able to debate this issue rationally - all of your responses are clearly emotion-fueled. any time someone describes a situation which they have offered to be normal behavior, you consistently put an extremist, melodramatic spin on it:

 

"I look at porn once in a while" becomes "constantly drooling over 20-year olds".

 

"my SO might look at a picture of a suicide girl once in a while if I'm not available" becomes "any time their partner is not instantly available they uncontrollably turn to porn" or whatever you said.

 

and so on. I have been saying since we began discussing this that porn use is problematic if it causes romantic distance with a partner, or causes the partner to unfavorably compare their GF to a porn actress - but yet anytime anyone asks you to address the much more common situation of occasional porn viewing, you come back condemning the extreme, and implying that because men don't necessarily see the big deal that we "need" porn and have no self-control, and create some gender war that is not even there.

 

Why would I share my personal experiences with you after you just put me down?

 

so don't, doesn't matter to me.

[Jersey Shortie]

they're ALL comparable - it's all a simulation of sex! you are drawing a completely arbitrary line that is based off of what gets a female off - the exact same thing that you've accused men of doing (which is completely accurate, by the way).

 

I don't even own a plastic friend AALike. But I do think a fake penis is comparable to fake vagina. The women in the porno movie are real people. The plastic fake part is a plastic fake part. Personally, for me, there is a distinction.

 

you have suggested that just about everyone that has disagreed with you in any fashion in this thread, including me, "has issues", so spare me the victim act.

 

Errr, I never said such a thing. You rattle on about how "logical" you are and I hate to tell you but men are not more "logical" when it comes to sex and relationships.

 

yes, i don't believe that you are able to debate this issue rationally - all of your responses are clearly emotion-fueled. any time someone describes a situation which they have offered to be normal behavior, you consistently put an extremist, melodramatic spin on it:

 

"I look at porn once in a while" becomes "constantly drooling over 20-year olds".

 

 

*YOUR* responses are clearly emotional too AALike. I don't DOUBT that my response are full of emotion. But that doesn't they don't have LOGIC in them. You think I put a melodramtic spin on it and I think alot of men try to down play things that are rather serious. How does your comments do anything to disprove what I said about men with families and wives that for the next 40 years will most likely be viewing porn of the same age group of women?

 

"my SO might look at a picture of a suicide girl once in a while if I'm not available" becomes "any time their partner is not instantly available they uncontrollably turn to porn" or whatever you said.

 

 

I will tell you what I said since you don't really seem to know. I said that why can't a man use self control if his partner isn't available. I don't seek emotional fullfillment from other men the second my partner isn't there to fullfill it for me.

 

....and so on. I have been saying since we began discussing this that porn use is problematic if it causes romantic distance with a partner, or causes the partner to unfavorably compare their GF to a porn actress -

 

Well, there are obviously alot of women all over the internet, this board included, that a man's porn use as already started to cause romantic distance. Why is it *fair* that men can use porn and their g/f or wife interchangably like that? It's not fair. It's only fair to the man that gets to have his cake and eat it too. But it's not fair to the woman that needs committement and loyatly whne a man says he is committed and loyal.

 

but yet anytime anyone asks you to address the much more common situation of occasional porn viewing, you come back condemning the extreme, and implying that because men don't necessarily see the big deal that we "need" porn and have no self-control, and create some gender war that is not even there.

 

What is "occasional porn viewing" anyway? I mean seriously. Once a week? Once a month? Once a year? A man is still using porn on a continued basis. He is still getting porn and a real woman that cares for him. Obviously men do need porn on some level even if he is viewing it *just* once a week or month. How many men could really shut the door down on porn and feel jsut as good? REGARDLESS of thier partner alwyas being there ready to spread her legs the minute *he* needs it. How come we don't expect self control from men but we certainly expect it of women. If I ate cheese cake the amount that most men view porn, I would be fat.

 

so don't, doesn't matter to me.

 

Then yuo shouldn't have asked me too or hinted that i should share in the first place.

[a4a]

This topic wouldn't be debated so heartily if people thought they had it all figured out.

 

It has been figured out on an individual basis.

 

So why try to convince the opposing view that your view is the correct one?

 

**********************************************************

 

You will not change a mans desire to see other women naked. You can take away the oppurtunity but you will not take away the desire.

 

And who cares if he looks.

 

Free porn is fine...... just as long as he isn't paying for it!

[AAlike]

If I ate cheese cake the amount that most men view porn, I would be fat.

 

uh...ok...

 

you "win" shortie. I hope it works out for you.

[Jersey Shortie]

No, I don't "win".

 

 

 

Free porn is fine...... just as long as he isn't paying for it!

 

How does paying for it or not paying for it change anything?