Q about Narcissicists, How they handle getting Caught or feeling Trapped

[bubblegum]

In general I understand that when someone with strong narcissistic tendencies is cornered - caught lying or whatever - they lash out and blame others. They don't truly take responsibility, saying something like "yeah well I did do XYZ but it was because you did this, or he did that" etc etc. Basically they always have a quick explanation for why they aren't truly at fault and they swiftly shift blame to others.

 

But how do narcissists handle situations in which it's virtually impossible to shift blame? When too much evidence is present, and they really can't deny what they've done? When even they can't look in the mirror and deny reality? Is it typical that they do basically anything to run and avoid? Even if that entails running from their primary source of narcissistic supply?

[Trialbyfire]

From my experience with a diagnosed NPDer, he folded like a cheap suit.

[2sure]

They become the victim, beg and cry for forgiveness, or say they are not worthy of it. Drama - starring .....ta da...them.

[bubblegum]

Haha, after reading your responses I have this image of a cheap suit all folded up on the floor of a stage, beaming in the spotlight.

 

Anyway, this person I'm referring to has vanished, and vanished the second before what I assume he thought would be a major confrontation. I wonder if he'll stay invisible, or wait for some time to pass to see if he can appear again as if nothing happened, or what.

 

I know when Ted Bundy was found guilty he went into a rage and then cried like a baby before he was put to death, which much pleading and attempts at bargaining in between... but I guess he was a pure sociopath, not a mere narcissist?

[Trialbyfire]

That's because you left a bolt-hole open. If you want an NPDer to fold, you have to plug up ALL the exits, give no warning and drop the hammer, after they've been corralled.

 

Hey, don't confuse a psychopath with a sociopath. It's one step up!

[Taramere]

But how do narcissists handle situations in which it's virtually impossible to shift blame? When too much evidence is present, and they really can't deny what they've done? When even they can't look in the mirror and deny reality? Is it typical that they do basically anything to run and avoid? Even if that entails running from their primary source of narcissistic supply?

 

I had two experiences, fairly close to eachother, of people who I think were very narcissistic. One was a boss who was sacking me for a mistake he'd made. Initially he seemed very sure of his ground, then when I suggested we check out something he'd said with one of the other partners who I knew would refute it, he just dropped any semblance of "nice, caring, trying to help you really" boss and started getting laid in with the abuse (only two of us were in the room, so I had no witnesses).

 

The other was an ex who'd cheated on me (partly, he said, because I was too wrapped up in the whole dismissal thing - and had become boring as a result). On the cheating and lies being discovered he stated in a matter of fact manner "I suppose that basically I'm a shallow person". It was like watching a mask drop, but other than that I couldn't read much from his tone or expression.

 

So broadly I'd say, when they're cornered they'll drop the act and either turn nasty or give you a "yeah, I'm a sh*t...so what. I'm done with you, so I don't really care what you think" response. Stay strong, respond with complete contempt and hopefully you'll get the cheap folding-suit effect TBF mentioned. I recommend if you're going to challenge a narcissist with irrefutable evidence, you get your emotional guard firmly in place and prepare for things to get nasty. In a twisted way I quite enjoyed the scene with my boss (no witnesses worked both ways, and I got to tell him exactly what I thought about him). The ex...that was just horrible, because it was someone I'd genuinely cared for.

[LucreziaBorgia]

If the old 'mental problems' gem doesn't work to defuse the situation and evoke sympathy, then they will snap in horrible ways and walk out. They come back though. They always do.

 

When they walk out on the primary source, inside they are terrified that they will call his/her bluff and cut him off.

[bubblegum]

I had two experiences, fairly close to eachother, of people who I think were very narcissistic. One was a boss who was sacking me for a mistake he'd made. Initially he seemed very sure of his ground, then when I suggested we check out something he'd said with one of the other partners who I knew would refute it, he just dropped any semblance of "nice, caring, trying to help you really" boss and started getting laid in with the abuse (only two of us were in the room, so I had no witnesses).

 

The other was an ex who'd cheated on me (partly, he said, because I was too wrapped up in the whole dismissal thing - and had become boring as a result). On the cheating and lies being discovered he stated in a matter of fact manner "I suppose that basically I'm a shallow person". It was like watching a mask drop, but other than that I couldn't read much from his tone or expression.

 

So broadly I'd say, when they're cornered they'll drop the act and either turn nasty or give you a "yeah, I'm a sh*t...so what. I'm done with you, so I don't really care what you think" response. Stay strong, respond with complete contempt and hopefully you'll get the cheap folding-suit effect TBF mentioned. I recommend if you're going to challenge a narcissist with irrefutable evidence, you get your emotional guard firmly in place and prepare for things to get nasty. In a twisted way I quite enjoyed the scene with my boss (no witnesses worked both ways, and I got to tell him exactly what I thought about him). The ex...that was just horrible, because it was someone I'd genuinely cared for.

 

Yeah, I've seen what I've highlighted above. That must've been a satisfactory release to get to tell your boss what you really thought!

[bubblegum]

If the old 'mental problems' gem doesn't work to defuse the situation and evoke sympathy, then they will snap in horrible ways and walk out. They come back though. They always do.

 

When they walk out on the primary source, inside they are terrified that they will call his/her bluff and cut him off.

 

This is what I'm thinking, that he's terrified I'll call his bluff and cut him off, so he's just disappeared. (what a coward) So am I correct to assume then, that since we had no real confrontation (yet) he might eventually test the waters to see if he's "safe?"

 

That's so true, also, he's pulled the old mental problems gem as you so well stated, and I've seen him snap before. But I've never seen him disappear in the eye of impending doom quite like this...

[bubblegum]

Hey, don't confuse a psychopath with a sociopath. It's one step up!

 

I know, my bad!

[Trialbyfire]

As Taramere has expressed, definitely get your emotional guard up or you're going to emotionally bleed to death. I had ice cold rage and hard facts lined up, so he couldn't get beyond that wall.

[bubblegum]

As Taramere has expressed, definitely get your emotional guard up or you're going to emotionally bleed to death. I had ice cold rage and hard facts lined up, so he couldn't get beyond that wall.

 

The thing is, I don't have many hard facts.

 

It's analogous to this: I wake up missing an arm and see him standing over me with my arm clenched in one of his hands and a bloody saw in his other. First he semi-tearfully apologizes, then when he sees I seem to be accepting it, he shifts blame, saying he was just trying to cut off a loose thread on my t-shirt, and that he's totally inexperienced with blades and that the person who sold him the saw misled him, and that it wasn't supposed to be able to slice through flesh and bone. Things are ok for a day or 2, except that he has to look at an armless bloody me and watch me change my bandages. And then he thinks he catches a glimpse of me in his closet, where I see dozens of different blades and evidence he was using them plenty. So he slips out the backdoor before I can confront him. And runs. No calls, texts, emails, absolutely nada since.

 

But I wasn't really in his closet (although I see how he could think I was) and don't really have any facts, except that he cut off my arm.

 

But his disappearing tells me something, correct?

[Woggle]

No matter what they will find a way to shift blame. It just does not occur to them that they are wrong and they will twist time and space to make the facts suit them.

[Chinook]

How do they react in this situ...?

 

* ignore it... and disappear

* shout and scream and deflect... and disappear

* cry and whinge boo hoo woe-is-me... and disappear

* all of the above

* then they come back (unless they found another supply)

[Lizzie60]

They will deny everything.. and most probably will get away with it..

[Trialbyfire]

The thing is, I don't have many hard facts.

 

It's analogous to this: I wake up missing an arm and see him standing over me with my arm clenched in one of his hands and a bloody saw in his other. First he semi-tearfully apologizes, then when he sees I seem to be accepting it, he shifts blame, saying he was just trying to cut off a loose thread on my t-shirt, and that he's totally inexperienced with blades and that the person who sold him the saw misled him, and that it wasn't supposed to be able to slice through flesh and bone. Things are ok for a day or 2, except that he has to look at an armless bloody me and watch me change my bandages. And then he thinks he catches a glimpse of me in his closet, where I see dozens of different blades and evidence he was using them plenty. So he slips out the backdoor before I can confront him. And runs. No calls, texts, emails, absolutely nada since.

 

But I wasn't really in his closet (although I see how he could think I was) and don't really have any facts, except that he cut off my arm.

 

But his disappearing tells me something, correct?

Whoah bubblegum! You've been watching too many slice and dice movies.

 

Running away from a possible accusation might tell you something or not. Are you certain he's got NPD? Has he been diagnosed as such?

[Chinook]

Whoah bubblegum! You've been watching too many slice and dice movies.

 

Running away from a possible accusation might tell you something or not. Are you certain he's got NPD? Has he been diagnosed as such?

This is what I also thought. NPD and passive-aggressiveness can manifest in very similar ways. The difference usually is that the PAPD rarely manifests a super-ego grandiose attitude, with low self-esteem (coupled with under-achieving) being more their style.

[bubblegum]

Whoah bubblegum! You've been watching too many slice and dice movies.

 

Running away from a possible accusation might tell you something or not. Are you certain he's got NPD? Has he been diagnosed as such?

 

Haha I do have a vivid and coloful imagination!

 

I don't know if he's been diagnosed as such. He's been in therapy, before I knew him, and said he was diagnosed with depression, but he felt therapy and meds weren't helpful. This was after his ex-wife of only about a year divorced him, and he had no idea it was coming (so he says). I've been trained in psychology (very higher-level edu) and have done tons of reading about PDs lately, and he really fits NPD. At minimum I can say with certainty that he strongly displays narcissistic tendencies; this isn't a case of me demonizing someone I feel has hurt me.

[bubblegum]

This is what I also thought. NPD and passive-aggressiveness can manifest in very similar ways. The difference usually is that the PAPD rarely manifests a super-ego grandiose attitude, with low self-esteem (coupled with under-achieving) being more their style.

 

For a while I thought he displayed more PAPD characteristics, but something convinced me he held more NPD characteristics. Does it make a difference in this situation?

 

BTW he's been working and socializing since he's disappeared, he's not injured in a ditch somewhere. (just thought I'd throw that in)

[Chinook]

For a while I thought he displayed more PAPD characteristics, but something convinced me he held more NPD characteristics. Does it make a difference in this situation?

 

BTW he's been working and socializing since he's disappeared, he's not injured in a ditch somewhere. (just thought I'd throw that in)

I don't think it does make a difference to be honest, as NPD and PAPD people commonly display traits from each discernible DSM-IV cluster (and add in a few more too). I think the main factor isn't to discern the two things but to what your response to it is. If it helps I'm in exactly the same position right now. My (I'm calling him ex) xbf threw a hissy fit on Sunday when I asked him why he hasn't called or text me about what's happening with plans this week. This has been a new constant thing where he can't be arsed. This has been only one in a long catalogue of issues where he lies, excuses, fobs off, changes, cancels, forgets etc. So when he was called out on his behaviour, he's now disappeared. He won't contact me until he realises that his ego-supply is missing. That could take weeks. Meanwhile I'm done making excuses for his behaviour. When he finally does do his woe-is-me trick and comes back, he will find I am no longer taking his cr@p.

[HappyAgain]

My example of an NPD: YOU forced me to have an affair because you were spending too much time trying to get good grades to get a better job so we could have a better life. Yup, it was my fault for studying too much!

[bubblegum]

I don't think it does make a difference to be honest, as NPD and PAPD people commonly display traits from each discernible DSM-IV cluster (and add in a few more too). I think the main factor isn't to discern the two things but to what your response to it is. If it helps I'm in exactly the same position right now. My (I'm calling him ex) xbf threw a hissy fit on Sunday when I asked him why he hasn't called or text me about what's happening with plans this week. This has been a new constant thing where he can't be arsed. This has been only one in a long catalogue of issues where he lies, excuses, fobs off, changes, cancels, forgets etc. So when he was called out on his behaviour, he's now disappeared. He won't contact me until he realises that his ego-supply is missing. That could take weeks. Meanwhile I'm done making excuses for his behaviour. When he finally does do his woe-is-me trick and comes back, he will find I am no longer taking his cr@p.

 

Good for you Chinook! What do you think he's busy doing between being called out by you and then finally contacting you?

[bubblegum]

My example of an NPD: YOU forced me to have an affair because you were spending too much time trying to get good grades to get a better job so we could have a better life. Yup, it was my fault for studying too much!

 

Priceless...

[bubblegum]

I know I'm not supposed to worry about what he's thinking, but lord do I wish I could creep into his brain for a few minutes, to find out what's going on!

 

Any people who are diagnosed NPDs or think they might be care to share?

[Taramere]

Yeah, I've seen what I've highlighted above. That must've been a satisfactory release to get to tell your boss what you really thought!

 

Well....I didn't go over the top with it. I just told him I didn't like or respect him, didn't rate his opinion, wasn't interested in hearing any more - so he should just get out of my office and start worrying about his own position in the firm. Which he did, in fact, lose several months later.

 

I suppose I quite enjoyed watching his jaw drop, then seeing him flounce out - slamming my door in the process. On the other hand, I'm not sure why he would have been surprised by my response. Maybe he was hopeful that I'd burst into tears so that he could slither around the place trying to play The Man....despite being a stumpy little f*cker who was about 3 inches away from midgethood.