Should I throw in the towel?

[FlyingToaster]

Hello,

I'm not sure if I want to read the posts I might get, but here goes:

 

I've whined before on LS about the issue my H and I are having; I want to move, and he doesn't. Here's a timeline:

 

3 years ago in February we hired an architect to look at our house and help us in figuring out how to expand/add on to it. He came up with some ideas, but they all looked awkward. He also gave us an estimate as to what it would cost for what we wanted.

 

2 years this coming fall we decided that we were going to have to move. The house is too small, we want our son to go to a better school, there's really nothing much for me, just to list a few reasons. We decided that my hometown was where we would move (we currently live in his hometown).

 

This past fall we went to the bank and looked into borrowing the money for the remodelling. The bank said they wouldn't loan it to us not because of credit or income, but because it wouldn't be a good investment on their part. There is no way they could sell that house for its current worth plus the cost of the addt'l work we wanted to do.

 

2 years this past March my husband approached his nephew about buying our place. See, my husband is a pilot and we have a private grass runway and hangar that houses 2 planes that he co-owns with his brothers and nephew. He'd really like it to stay in the family. During this time, his nephew has started remodelling the house he currently owns.

 

It will be one year next month that I told my H that I wanted our son to go to pre-school in the fall of '09 in the town we were planning to move to.

 

Okay, during this whole time my H has been waffling back and forth. He comes up with idiotic reasons not to move like my hometown has bullies, and there's more white trash there than what he thought (I know, I don't get it either), and then at other times when I get down in the dumps about where we now live, he says he'll get going on getting our place sold.

 

Where we live means a lot to him. He has an obsession with airplanes and flying, and growing up he loved going out to this airport and seeing all the planes. I can understand the attachment, but we're at a point where we've outgrown it.

 

Along with this he says that if we moved, he would be miserable. Even though he would have more opportunities to fly, he wouldn't enjoy it because he would be flying over unfamiliar territory. He says he'd probably just sit in a chair and stare at the wall.

 

We looked at a house this past fall that I loved. It was bigger, nicer, and had a lot of potential. He criticized it saying that I wouldn't like the kitchen (I love to cook and bake), and that the yard was too small, and that the front yard was short and our son could run out into the street. However, we at this time have a HUGE yard and we live on a busy state highway and he won't let me put up any fencing (I'd like to have two separate areas. One for our dogs and the other for our son to play in). We definitely have enough space for a garden, but he won't let me do that either (another fencing issue). Unfortunately, the house that I loved was sold about a month ago.

 

We also have other issues to deal with. He can't say no to his family, and his family is always calling on him to do things that they could easily do themselves. They like to drop by w/out notice and this really irks me. I feel it's disrespectful to assume that just because they have some free time that I should have some too. I've been half tempted to answer the door barea$$ naked to see if they'd get the point. I know it's wishful thinking, but my hope was that once we got away from them (3 hours driving) that they wouldn't have such a grip on him.

 

I know my H would really want his nephew or older brother to buy our place, but they've showed no interest. I don't feel that they have as much attachment to it as my H likes to think. They certainly don't help with it. My H is home every other week and during the mowing season, he mows the runway and yard twice while he's home. It takes about 3 days out of his 7 days home to do this. We'll be married 5 years this May and I've only seen his brother help mow twice, and help repair the mower once. His nephew has mowed several times, but only twice has he not been paid by my H to do it . About 2 months ago a friend of my H called because my H's nephew told him about the house. He is very interested in buying it. My husband has said before that if his family doesn't buy it that this friend would be his next choice. Still, my H is telling him that he's working on his nephew a little more.

 

Add to all of this that my MIL has now just started chemo and radiation for brain cancer. She's 88 years old and very emotionally dependent. Since her surgery two weeks ago, my H has been with her all day every day when he's home. I understand the need for him to be there, so I don't have a problem with that. I'm just bringing this up because now he has even less time at home.

 

Whew! If you're still with me at this point, my question is this: Should I just wake up and realize that my H is never going to move? This is a relationship breaker for me as I feel that there is nothing for me where we live. It's a small town, we're isolated, we live quite a ways from a bigger town with better grocery stores, etc. There are many other reasons, but I've already written too much. I feel that I'm going to be moving just myself and son.

 

It may seem that I'm echoing what my H has said about moving to my hometown, but I feel that I've truly made an effort. Unfortunately, a lot of what I'd like to do has been curtailed because of the issues with our house and our location.

 

If you're still with me, I'd like some insight as to how to deal with this. If you feel I should just shut up and stay where we are, please give me advice as to how not be angry and resentful.

 

Take Care.

[carhill]

Is it moving or is it this?

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t169013/

 

That term "irreconcilable differences" is a pretty interesting and apt one, sometimes...

[FlyingToaster]

I would have to say it's both. Sometimes when we have our arguments I don't feel secure because we live close to his family. Living closer to my family makes me feel safer.

 

One of the other reasons I want to move as well is because we would be closer to my parents. My H is gone completely every other week. It would be nice to have people I could count on in case something should happen.

 

You're right about irreconcilable differences, carhill. We've had many discussions over that as well. I've said before that maybe we'd be better off separated. He says that kids should have their parents together. I say what's the point of that if they're unhappy. All they're teaching the child in that case is that you should stay in a marriage even if you're miserable.

 

This sucks.

 

Take Care.

[giotto]

I don't really know how you managed to put up with him for so long!

[65tr6]

We also have other issues to deal with.

wow, OP. I agree with you. That is your (both you and your husband's) problem right now. Lot of "other" issues. You need to get your marriage back on track first. Was it ever great, by the way ?

 

Have you ever done a "honey, we need to talk " with your husband ?

[FlyingToaster]

I've tried, 65tr6. Sometimes he'll play the victim and be like, "Gee, all I wanted to do was (insert something here to try and make me feel guilty)." Or he'll say one of the following:

 

"I'm an idiot."

"I'm a lousy husband (or father)."

"I can't win."

"I should just go back to work."

"I can't do anything right."

 

If he happens to be apologetic and seems to want to work on the problem, it's only temporary, and it will be used against me later on. A good example was not too long after our son was born he was going back out to work. The day before he left I asked him what he needed to get done. After he told me I asked if he could get that done in the morning 'cause I had some things I wanted to get done in the afternoon. He said it was possible, but he ended up fiddle-farting around and took all day. I was upset and told him that I understood that he needed to get things done, but so did I and now I wasn't able to. He said he was sorry. The next time he had to go to work, he had to be there very early in the morning. Since he had to drive 2-1/2 hours to get there, he typically leaves the night before in an instance like this. He decided not to. He woke up in the middle of the night ticked off because, according to him, he couldn't get everything done that he needed to because he was accomodating me and now he was worried that he'd be fatigued. He said, "The day before I leave, it's all about me." I was ticked, but I pointed out to him that everything he tries to get done the day before he leaves could be done earlier (washing his uniform shirts, packing his suitcase). He agreed to that, but it irritates me that instead of talking about it he works himself into a lather.

 

We married fairly quickly, but I don't think it would have made much of a difference if we had waited. He didn't believe in living together, so I wouldn't have seen a lot of the behavior I see now. Sometimes when he gets mad, he walks away and has a $h!t tossing fit. If there had been an instance where he was mad at me while we were dating, he would have waited until he was alone to vent.

 

There have been times when he has really tested my patience. I have exploded at him twice. The second time I was in his face and he looked like a surprised little kid. He grew up with very little opposition because his father told his older siblings to not upset him and his twin brother. So now I think that his surprise is because he's not used to somebody challenging him.

 

One of our other arguments is our son. He complains that I don't let him spend time with him. In some ways that's true. Quite often when he's been in charge of our son, he has gotten hurt because my H doesn't pay attention to him. But there have been other times when he doesn't spend any time with him because of the constraints he puts on himself, or what he feels he absolutely has to do. He'll play with him for about 5 minutes and then he just HAS to look something up on the computer, or call someone in his family, etc. Other times he'll say, "Let's go see what Mommy's doing.", and hands him back to me. So many times our son and I have been playing outside and my H will come out to take a picture, then he goes back inside and doesn't come back out. One time he came out and watched us play, and then went to the garage to get fertilizer and proceeded to scatter fertilizer on the grass around us! Like I want our son exposed to that!

 

Another instance was when our son was just starting to pull himself up. My H just got home from work and I was making supper. He asked me what he could do to help. I said, "Watch our son." He said okay and set him beside one of his activity/play tables. Then my H went into another room to wash some clothes. While he was doing that, our son fell down. When I got to him, I noticed that he could have very easily hit his head on a cement step that the table was close to. Thank goodness he didn't.

 

He's still very much a bachelor. I'm at a point where if I can't change him, at least let me be at a place where our son and I can do what we want to do instead of waiting around for him. It's hard to do that right now because where we live is so remote. There's not a lot of opportunities. Sure, we can imagine and try to come up with a lot on our own, but there are some things that just can't be done that way.

 

Despite all of this, we have good times, so I think there's still hope, but it's getting more difficult to live in the moment and not think about what has and what could happen.

 

Take Care.

[2sure]

He doesnt want to move.

He doesnt want to live or fly in a new area.

He doesnt want a fence in the yard you now have, etc etc.

 

He just doest want change. Period.

 

And thats a problem, not an unusual one.

But the fact is that change happens. Its a necessary and natural thing.

If your husbands fear of change makes him feel he has to control things ( like no fence!) you aren't going to be able to do much.

 

However, if his fear of change can be helped by YOU taking charge, even if you have to insist...then do it.

 

Change SOMETHING. Get the fence and maybe he will realize change is not so bad.

 

By the way - if you can pay off your house , have no other existing mortgage , OR something else for collateral - the bank will loan you the money for remodeling.

[FlyingToaster]

Thanks for the reply 2sure. There are some things that I have been doing to hopefully make him more willing to change.

 

I have purchased a storage shed in the town I plan to move to. I also have a family membership to the YM/WCA in that community as well. Today our son and I went to the pool and had a blast. There is a pool in the town we currently live in, but it's small, is only open in the summer, and only offers lessons. It doesn't offer anything else like swim team. I was very active in those things. I was a certified Life Guard and Water Safety Instructor and taught lessons. I don't know if our son will want to be as active, but he would have the opportunity to pursue those things if we moved. At this point I'm hoping to incorporate my husband and it will be one more thing that he will feel a little more comfortable in doing.

 

I didn't know that about the bank. Why is it that they will loan it to us then and not before? I mean, wouldn't it still be the same issue? Regardless, we're not at a point where paying it off would be an option, and it won't happen in the near future either.

 

Take Care.

[2sure]

Regarding the bank.

 

The mortgage loan you pay on your house is secured for the bank because ideally if you default - the house is worth the amount of the mortgage. The house is the collateral on the mortgage loan.

 

If you had a house that was paid for, with no mortgage against it...the bank would loan you any amount up to the value of the house. You could use it for vacations, education, or building an addition - wouldn't matter - because the bank would be able to use the free and clear house as collateral against the new loan.

[FlyingToaster]

Thanks for the information, 2sure. I just had in my head that if they said no now, it was the same no matter what the situation.

 

Regardless, we're not in any position for that to happen any time soon.

 

Take care.

[65tr6]

We married fairly quickly, but I don't think it would have made much of a difference if we had waited. He didn't believe in living together, so I wouldn't have seen a lot of the behavior I see now. Sometimes when he gets mad, he walks away and has a $h!t tossing fit. If there had been an instance where he was mad at me while we were dating, he would have waited until he was alone to vent..

 

FT, nope you are missing the whole point. There are some great articles on how romantic love, dating love, living together love is SO different from the one you experience after married together. The dynamics change so much once you are married. The romantic love can only last so long before it needs to be replaced with something more sustained and ever growing between the two spouses.

 

Back on your original topic of "Should i throw in the towel". I think you should be asking that question about your marriage and not about whether you want to move or you can get a loan. To me those are secondary. You both need to change before you destroy your relationship/marriage. You both need a major wake up call. I got mine about six months ago so did my wife. Unfortunately it took an affair on my wife's part to make changes. I changed overnight. Some of the behavior displayed by your husband reminds me on my own behavior. Funny thing, I would feel very guilty after blowing my top off but never was able to correct myself.

 

I will venture a guess and say that your marriage is in deep trouble. (I think you already know that). But the good news is you both can work on it together if you make it priority one. Start by changing your behavior and throwing all the love busters out of your relationship.

 

Start with you. Ask him what his needs are. And start meeting them. I was like your husband not spending enough time with my son. Boy, did that change quickly or what. Your husband needs to stop blaming you. I did that for a long time. Now looking back, it looks so silly and immatured.

 

About your husband still behaving like a bachelor....I think you are right. Some of us are guilty of that behavior. We dont make that transition to the marriage very well. Life is different living with another person, treating them as equals and respecting them like they would like to be respected takes a tremendous amount of change, determination.

 

You both seem to have the love for each other. You have an adorable son. So what is stopping you from making that positive change ? Your marriage can only get better.

[FlyingToaster]

Thanks for the reply, 65tr6. In all actuality, when I asked about throwing in the towel, I did mean about the marriage. I just didn't make myself very clear and I ended up making this another opportunity to rant about the whole moving issue.

 

As far as asking my H what his needs are, did you do that for your wife, or her to you? If so, did the other person get their needs met as well? I'm looking at our situation in a very hurt and angry manner so for now what I see is that I will meet my H's needs and get nothing in return except to say, "Well, at least he's happy." I see my MIL as this lonely, dependent shell of a person and I have this great fear that she wasn't always like this. Some of the stories I've hear about my H's father makes me think that my H is much like him, and that it was his behaviour that made my MIL become what she is now. She just gave in. I don't want to give in. I want our son to see me as I am; an artistic, articulate, intelligent, musical, and competent person and I see that not happening if we continue to live where we do. There are very few outlets for me in this community, and even if there was, there's no place for me to hone any kind of craft, especially not at home because of a lack of space.

 

I'm sorry. I'm sure I'm coming across as a big whiner.

 

Could you go into a little more detail about your situation?

 

Take care.

[65tr6]

did you do that for your wife, or her to you? If so, did the other person get their needs met as well?

 

FT, I have started to draft the message, got distracted and lost it all. lol. Here it is again.

 

No, my wife and I did not do the following prior to the d-day

 

1) Communicate openly and honestly about our feelings

2) Identify and start meeting each others needs - including total elimination of love busting behavior

 

I have come to realize that you can improve your marriage by not communicating and by meeting each others needs but not the other way around. You cannot improve a marriage by not meeting each others needs but communicating on an extensive basis. Point 2) also means changing yourself.

 

My wife and I have started to implement both 1) and 2) d-day. It was primarily me in the beginning as she was going through the withdrawal stage which seemed to last forever. For a while after d-day I was blaming communication between us as the sole reason but not anymore. We both indulged in behavior that almost destroyed our marriage. We had a bad marriage prior to the affair. I never accepted even though I knew something was wrong. I just assumed that is how life gets once you have kids. I got brainwashed by what I heard/read about non-existent married life once you have kids.

 

I'm looking at our situation in a very hurt and angry manner so for now what I see is that I will meet my H's needs and get nothing in return except to say, "Well, at least he's happy."

 

First off, you have to let go that attitude. Have you sincerely changed yourself and attempted to meet his needs without any expectations? If not, how do you know you cant influence him ? Oh, by the way, you are not changing for him but for you. To be a better wife/person.

 

Some of the stories I've hear about my H's father makes me think that my H is much like him, and that it was his behavior that made my MIL become what she is now. She just gave in. I don't want to give in.

 

You don’t have to give in. But no one said you cannot change it. I think you are right. Your husband subconsciously is following the path his parents laid out in the front of him. That does not mean he cannot put an end to it. I read your other thread about your husband’s behavior. In your opinion, is he someone with low self-esteem? Why does he belittle himself?

 

 

Could you go into a little more detail about your situation?

 

What else do you want to know? My wife and I have been married for more than 10 years. We have a six year old son who we absolutely love. My wife had an affair, lasting over one year that ended about six months ago. I was grieving for a solid 4 months. But never gave up on our marriage. Several months after d-day, we both started noticing the subtle differences. They say marriage is about compromises....I think it is more than that. It is meeting each others needs with little or no expectations. Sooner or later you will reap the benefits. I think that is why it is so important not to put so much emphasis on the marriage. Take the pressure off and work on other things that are also important in life. Improve your marriage without actually thinking about it. Great book by the way.

 

Something I read in the last six months that might be of interest to you

 

1) The five love languages

2) The five love languages of apology

3) The five love languages of children

4) This year i will.....

5) Love and Respect

6) How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It

 

All great books.

[FlyingToaster]

Thanks for the response, 65tr6. I understand where you are talking about. I need to not get my back up about all of this so that I can look at this situation in a more constructive and productive way.

 

I don't have much else to say right now. My son and I are at my parents' house and we're headed back to be with my H until he goes back to work. I need to pack. I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to write about your situation.

 

Take care.