He's sleeping on the couch tonight....

[Kaii]

Okay, I need some advice here. I need to know if I am overreacting or if I have a right to be pissed off.

 

I have been with my bf for a year. On Valentines day of this year, he asked me to marry him. We live together and are currently trying to have a baby. We are both in our mid 30's.

 

THIS is the problem....

 

Before we started dating he used to talk to a lot of girls online, mostly ones from work. He ended up getting involved with one of them, but again, that was before me.

 

6 months into our relationship, I find out that he is still chatting online with these girls, unbeknownst to me. I had a complete ****ing freak out and turned into the Email/Facebook/Chat Log police for several months. I read through all of the chat logs and there wasn't anything sexual in nature but it bothered me that he would be spending his free time chatting with other women and that he didn't think it was something I would want to know about.

 

I feel that it undermines the "exclusivity" of a relationship for one partner to be getting emotional support/companionship, etc from people of the opposite sex while they are in a committed relationship.

 

He says that it is harmless and doesn't understand why I am freaking out about this. He sees nothing wrong with it, which infuriates me even further.

 

Am I being unreasonable?

 

Just today, I checked his SMS text history and found that he had a text conversation this past friday with one of these girls while he was at work. He had thought he had erased it, but the last 2 texts were still there. Again, nothing inappropriate was said but the fact that he took time out of his workday to chat with her and then erased it so I wouldn't know about it is just burning my ass.

 

He said he erased it because he "doesn't like clutter on his phone", but then I pointed out that he still had texts messages from March on there and he didn't bother erasing them.

 

He then admitted that he had erased the texts because he knew I would be angry.

 

I just feel like he's not trustworthy sometimes. I don't know if he is up to something or not, but the fact that he didn't tell me about texting with this woman in the first place and then tried to erase it to cover it up.....I just don't know.

 

I just don't know what to think anymore. Someone please give me some advice

[Enema]

On the one hand - he's a pussy for lying and hiding instead of telling you to back the f' off when you started displaying these qualities.

 

On the other hand, you're crazy and he probably wanted to avoid the confrontation.

 

There's nothing more unattractive than an insecure, jealous, possessive woman.

 

If you don't trust him, you shouldn't be with him.

[BobSacamento]

Yeah sounds like a very healthy relationship.

[Trialbyfire]

Lying by omission and then lying to cover things up, doesn't speak well about the type of person he is. I'd be really cautious about proceeding with marriage. For myself, his lying would be a dealbreaker.

[reservoirdog1]

I suppose that, in an ideal world, he shouldn't have lied by omission.

 

But on the flipside, I can understand his motivation for not saying anything. When you flipped on him today, he said he erased the texts because he knew you'd be angry. Firstly, you'd blown up on him six months ago, so he was understandably apprehensive about that. And tonight he's on the couch, so his dread about you going nuts about it again was only confirmed.

 

You state, at least twice, that there was nothing sexual or inappropriate in any of these communications that led to your various freak-outs. One of the women, he WAS involved with, before you were even in the picture. The rest are mostly from work.

 

You say you don't think he should be getting "companionship" from opposite sex friends while in a committed relationship. Translated, that means you don't want him to have female friends. Period.

 

Your behaviour and reactions have basically constituted an ultimatum: the price of being in a relationship with you is that he can't have female friends. That's unfair, controlling, and irrational on your part. And as a result, you've punished him by making him sleep on the couch.

 

I hope you get some counselling ASAP. And I hope he insists on you getting some help for your issues before he marries you. Otherwise I foresee a miserable marriage in which he's forced to give up his friends while you keep his balls in a mason jar.

[Kaii]

So basically you are all saying that it is ME????

 

Are you all on crack?

 

He lies to me and then covers it up and that is okay? Since when is that okay in a relationship?

 

And, NO, I do not think it is okay for men in committed relationships to have women friends that they text with and share personal things with them. We are both in our mid 30's here, not 16.

 

You know, I think of the older generations and I know that my father, uncles, grandfathers, etc, sure as hell did not have women as "friends". They had a wife for that. They talked to their her about things that were bothering them, they shared things about their day with her, they told her funny stories....NOT some random f**ucking halfwit.

 

And guess what...all of them are still married.

 

Men and women in committed relationships should not have friends of the opposite sex and I don't care what you say about it.

 

"Just friends" leads to things...it leads to "Oh, I'm fighting with my SO, they just don't understand me....but my friend does, I'll just talk to them and tell them how I feel instead of trying to work it out with my SO"

 

And soon, they are running to their "friend" for things that should be given by their SO. Mainly, emotional support. This is how Emotional affairs start. And Emotional Affairs are the gateway to a full blown Physical Affair.

[MichelleS1983]

Kaii, I understand where you're coming from.

 

You asked for advice so here's my FIRST thought - don't get pregnant. What is it with everyone today having children out of wedlock? You're planning on marrying, so do it THEN. The last thing you need to do is tie yourself to this guy with a kid if you're both not able to get past this.

 

I think to an extent your fiance likes the attention of having women friends. I think it feeds his ego. While he may not be slobbering on them and talking sexually to them, it's very possible that WILL happen in the future.

 

Go read SurvivingInfidelity.com and see how many betrayed wives are dealing with the fallout of their husband's "innocent friendships" with women "buddies."

[SpanksTheMonkey]

I feel that it undermines the "exclusivity" of a relationship for one partner to be getting emotional support/companionship, etc from people of the opposite sex while they are in a committed relationship.

 

He says that it is harmless and doesn't understand why I am freaking out about this. He sees nothing wrong with it, which infuriates me even further.

 

Am I being unreasonable?

 

Dose you being here and talking to us undermine your relationship as well I mean if hes your bf why arnt you talking to him instead? I'm sure some here are males you see my point?

 

I think it is harmless I think there his friends and you have no right to tell him he cant talk to them unless you have some kind of hard evidence hes cheating or something?

 

So yes you are wrong and you are controlling and yes you are def being unreasonable IMO...

[SpanksTheMonkey]

So basically you are all saying that it is ME????

 

Are you all on crack?

 

He lies to me and then covers it up and that is okay? Since when is that okay in a relationship?

 

And, NO, I do not think it is okay for men in committed relationships to have women friends that they text with and share personal things with them. We are both in our mid 30's here, not 16.

 

You know, I think of the older generations and I know that my father, uncles, grandfathers, etc, sure as hell did not have women as "friends". They had a wife for that. They talked to their her about things that were bothering them, they shared things about their day with her, they told her funny stories....NOT some random f**ucking halfwit.

 

And guess what...all of them are still married.

 

Men and women in committed relationships should not have friends of the opposite sex and I don't care what you say about it.

 

"Just friends" leads to things...it leads to "Oh, I'm fighting with my SO, they just don't understand me....but my friend does, I'll just talk to them and tell them how I feel instead of trying to work it out with my SO"

 

And soon, they are running to their "friend" for things that should be given by their SO. Mainly, emotional support. This is how Emotional affairs start. And Emotional Affairs are the gateway to a full blown Physical Affair.

:confused: Oh my def don't get preg do the guy a favor and end it you obviously have different values/wants.

[Bejita463]

Before we started dating he used to talk to a lot of girls online, mostly ones from work. He ended up getting involved with one of them, but again, that was before me.

 

6 months into our relationship, I find out that he is still chatting online with these girls, unbeknownst to me.

You should know about his friends, yes. I understand being upset about that. What gender those friends are however, is honestly no business of yours if you do not have any reasonable suspicion the relationships are inappropriate.

 

Did he have reason to believe you would react this way if you knew he still spoke to his female friends? Did he even know you thought he wasn't speaking to them anymore? In other words, did he ever actually tell you he stopped speaking to them, or did you simply assume he did because you believe he should have?

 

I had a complete ****ing freak out and turned into the Email/Facebook/Chat Log police for several months. I read through all of the chat logs and there wasn't anything sexual in nature but it bothered me that he would be spending his free time chatting with other women and that he didn't think it was something I would want to know about.

I can understand wanting to see the logs, but I don't get the impression here that he even agreed to let you see them. If that is the case you are doing things you've no right, or logical cause to do. Behind his back at that.

 

If he did agree to let you see his logs, then deleting messages could be something you have reason to be upset over. However, by your own time line, he didn't start doing that until after you had seen conversations you admitted were not sexual in nature. I'd wager that your reaction to the conversations you admit were innocent was not calm and collected, like I would have expected, were I him.

 

I feel that it undermines the "exclusivity" of a relationship for one partner to be getting emotional support/companionship, etc from people of the opposite sex while they are in a committed relationship.

Companionship is an intentionally misleading way to refer to a friend that you'd not have used if the friend were male. That is asinine. How would you like him arbitrarily restricting you from being friends with a certain group of people?

 

He says that it is harmless and doesn't understand why I am freaking out about this. He sees nothing wrong with it, which infuriates me even further.

 

Am I being unreasonable?

If his relationships with these people are not inappropriate, and I see nothing in your post that lends any reasonable suspicion that they are, there isn't anything wrong with it. So I believe you are being unreasonable, yes.

 

He said he erased it because he "doesn't like clutter on his phone", but then I pointed out that he still had texts messages from March on there and he didn't bother erasing them.

 

He then admitted that he had erased the texts because he knew I would be angry.

Was he trying to hide anything before you started looking into his business (and again, did he give you permission to do that?) and "freaking out" on him? If not, then you have yourself to blame for it. It is different if he was, but I suspect he just started clearing his messages to get you to settle down.

 

I just feel like he's not trustworthy sometimes. I don't know if he is up to something or not, but the fact that he didn't tell me about texting with this woman in the first place and then tried to erase it to cover it up.....I just don't know.

After how you reacted to him having spoken to these women in the first place, this honestly surprises you? These behaviors would certainly be suspicious if they were unprovoked, but they were provoked.

 

I just don't know what to think anymore. Someone please give me some advice

I doubt you like what I had to say, but it is my honest perspective on the situation as you presented it. Even if your suspicions ultimated ended up being correct, and again I see no reasonable suspicion, this situation spinning out of control has been at your own direction.

[Kaii]

Dose you being here and talking to us undermine your relationship as well I mean if hes your bf why arnt you talking to him instead? I'm sure some here are males you see my point?

 

I think it is harmless I think there his friends and you have no right to tell him he cant talk to them unless you have some kind of hard evidence hes cheating or something?

 

So yes you are wrong and you are controlling and yes you are def being unreasonable IMO...

 

Well, I am not really "talking" to you, am I? You don't know me, I don't know you. I will probably never hear from you again. Furthermore, I am "posting" on a forum, not texting you one on one. I am not telling you little funny stories from my day. I am not being charming and teasing you.

 

I am asking for advice. Period.

 

I don't think that is the same thing at all.

 

As for evidence that he's cheating....

 

He was previously married and 7 months before his marriage fell apart and his wife kicked him out, he began "chatting" with a women from work. He developed feelings for her (wow, big surprise) and did eventually end up making out with her and feeling her up at work. It went on for several weeks before she ended it.

 

Also, when I said that 6 months into our relationship that I found he was still "chatting" with women...this particular woman that he was sucking face with, was one of them. They were exchanging little teasing emails back and forth on Facebook.

 

So, I have plenty of reasons to be upset about this recent conversation with another woman on Friday. He has shown me that he is not always trustworthy.

 

Also, he did give me permission to look at his chat logs. We each have all the passwords to each others email/Facebook/cell phone/computer accounts and he does check up on me weekly, so it is not a one sided thing.

[Bejita463]

Well, I am not really "talking" to you, am I? You don't know me, I don't know you. I will probably never hear from you again. Furthermore, I am "posting" on a forum, not texting you one on one. I am not telling you little funny stories from my day. I am not being charming and teasing you. I am asking for advice.

 

You are talking to us. Word games don't make something other than it is. You aren't speaking with us one on one only because this site isn't formatted that way. You aren't telling us your stories because we aren't your friends, but if we were, you probably would.

 

There is nothing wrong with that.

 

He was previously married and 7 months before his marriage fell apart and his wife kicked him out, he began "chatting" with a women from work. He developed feelings for her (wow, big surprise) and did eventually end up making out with her and feeling her up at work. It went on for several weeks before she ended it.

 

Also, when I said that 6 months into our relationship that I found he was still "chatting" with women...this particular woman that he was sucking face with, was one of them. They were exchanging little teasing emails back and forth on Facebook.

 

So, I have plenty of reasons to be upset about this recent conversation with another woman on Friday. He has shown me that he is not always trustworthy.

If you don't trust him because of his actions in a previously relationship, you should never have went out with him in the first place. You don't just arbitrarily change the rules to suit your whims in a relationship.

 

Also, he did give me permission to look at his chat logs. We each have all the passwords to each others email/Facebook/cell phone/computer accounts and he does check up on me weekly, so it is not a one sided thing.

Fair enough. How did you react when you saw the conversations were innocent then? Before he started deleting the messages that is.

[Kaii]

Fair enough. How did you react when you saw the conversations were innocent then? Before he started deleting the messages that is.

 

There was a lot of teasing back and forth with these women. It was not really sexual in nature. There was one time when he was sending these heart things back and forth with the woman he had made out with and then she only sent him 2 back and he responded with "Oh, I'm only worth 2 am I?? ;)".

 

It is that kind of stuff.

 

I don't see a need for it. He is in a relationship with ME. Why does he feel the need to tease back and forth with these women?

 

I'm sorry but I don't think it's okay.

 

I am going to call a therapist today because we obviously need some couples counselling before we get married and have a baby.

[Bejita463]

There was a lot of teasing back and forth with these women. It was not really sexual in nature. There was one time when he was sending these heart things back and forth with the woman he had made out with and then she only sent him 2 back and he responded with "Oh, I'm only worth 2 am I?? ;)".

 

It is that kind of stuff.

 

I don't see a need for it. He is in a relationship with ME. Why does he feel the need to tease back and forth with these women?

 

I'm sorry but I don't think it's okay.

 

I am going to call a therapist today because we obviously need some couples counselling before we get married and have a baby.

 

If you can do it calmly, you could just ask why he does things like the little hearts. During actual chats, I send those to my friends all the time, male and female. I say the exact same type of things to them regardless of gender. He might not see it as teasing, but you'll never know if he does if you don't give him a chance to explain it.

 

I understand your concerns, but they should have led to a calm, open discussion. A discussion where you are both ready to accept your views might be wrong. A therapist is a good idea, but what they will probably ultimately do is mediate the conversation so that it is what it should have been to begin with.

 

I'd be prepared for the fact that he clearly does not agree with you that his having female friends is a bad thing. I would assume then, that he doesn't see a problem with your having male friends either. Ask him why not, and you might begin to understand why he doesn't understand your problem with his friends.

[Island Girl]

Apparently I am the only one here who agrees with you about the whole friends of the opposite gender thing.

 

It can very easily lead to EAs and PA both.

 

He lied by omission and one of these women he has already shown much interest in -- and she is the one who broke off the relationship so there may possibly be unresolved feelings there.

He is hiding texts.

 

And I don't care how you were going to react to it there is no excuse to be dishonest.

If you are doing something you know your partner is going to be upset about you either brace yourself for the fallout or you don't do it the first place.

 

You have every reason to be upset.

 

And I think going to counseling is a good plan.

 

Just keep in mind that they will not tell him he's wrong and you are right about all of this.

They'll just try and get you to see eye to eye.

 

If he is steadfast about this behavior then I wouldn't stay with him.

The same issue later on will be much more difficult to deal with and he has already shown he can become attached in "chatty" relationships like this.

[Bejita463]

Apparently I am the only one here who agrees with you about the whole friends of the opposite gender thing.

 

Her boyfriend clearly does not. This is a problem.

[MichiganMan222]

I'm actually on the fence on this one and think I would need more information to decide who's side I'm on. There's nothing wrong with opposite-sex friends, BUT not someone he has any romantic interest in whatsoever. While looking for messages and exchanges with sexual overtones in them is the obvious thing to do, I would also be looking for something else too. I know how my gf talks to her female friends about me. She tells them how in love she is, how happy she is, how much she adores me, etc....if she were talking to male friends and wasn't talking about me like that to them and leaving me out of the conversation, I would be very concerned. I would take that has her not wanting to burn a bridge.

 

So tell us, did he talk about you to them at all? If he did, I would say you have nothing to worry about and you're overreacting. If he didn't and left you and your relationship completely out of the conversations, then I would be concerned that he's trying to leave a door open.

 

Yes, ERs CAN lead to PRs. Absolutely. But this isn't a debate over whether opposite-sex friends are acceptable. The question is his intent. Bottom line is if he sanitizes the conversation and leaves you out, he is laying down a foundation for something in the future. Maybe it's 'just in case' you guys don't work out, but that still isn't good. Because it CAN escalate if the circumstances present themselves.

 

I have female friends and I talk to them like my male friends. If my gf is at all concerned, I let her watch the chat. I offered to let her read my emails and chat logs anytime she wants. I gave her my passwords, I never erase my text messages and I don't password protect my phone. I also keep the ring on high and leave it laying around the house if I'm home. I'm not cheating on her, but I want to take the extra step and make sure she never has any doubt about that.

[Bejita463]

I'm actually on the fence on this one and think I would need more information to decide who's side I'm on. There's nothing wrong with opposite-sex friends, BUT not someone he has any romantic interest in whatsoever. While looking for messages and exchanges with sexual overtones in them is the obvious thing to do, I would also be looking for something else too. I know how my gf talks to her female friends about me. She tells them how in love she is, how happy she is, how much she adores me, etc....if she were talking to male friends and wasn't talking about me like that to them and leaving me out of the conversation, I would be very concerned. I would take that has her not wanting to burn a bridge.

 

So tell us, did he talk about you to them at all? If he did, I would say you have nothing to worry about and you're overreacting. If he didn't and left you and your relationship completely out of the conversations, then I would be concerned that he's trying to leave a door open.

 

That is an excellent point. How friendly he seems towards a person as a whole should probably be taken into context as well though. If he is friendly, but not really sharing any personal details, it might be because he doesn't consider that person a good enough friend to be privy to those details at all.

 

So, I'd amend MichiganMan222's message a little by saying if he seems very open about everything except you, that is probably a clearer warning flag than an omission.

[bluechocolate]

Men and women in committed relationships should not have friends of the opposite sex and I don't care what you say about it.

 

That's it in a nutshell - you need to put that ultimatum to him & then let him decide if he wants to stay in the relationship. If he agrees & then continues in the same way then move on.

[Kaii]

That is an excellent point. How friendly he seems towards a person as a whole should probably be taken into context as well though. If he is friendly, but not really sharing any personal details, it might be because he doesn't consider that person a good enough friend to be privy to those details at all.

 

Well, I did read one chat that he had with a young girl, like 10-15 years younger than us. What they have in common, I have no idea. He mentioned that he was home alone and that I was working and she responded with "maybe that's a good thing"

 

I don't know what to think about that.

[Untouchable_Fire]

There was a lot of teasing back and forth with these women. It was not really sexual in nature. There was one time when he was sending these heart things back and forth with the woman he had made out with and then she only sent him 2 back and he responded with "Oh, I'm only worth 2 am I?? ;)".

It is that kind of stuff.

I don't see a need for it. He is in a relationship with ME. Why does he feel the need to tease back and forth with these women?

I'm sorry but I don't think it's okay.

I am going to call a therapist today because we obviously need some couples counselling before we get married and have a baby.

 

He has a right to have friends... just not secret friends.

 

I am typically one who would say it isn't good to have opposite sex friends in a marriage... but your not married.

 

So, I think what you need to do is explain why your not some insecure control freak, because that it what it seems like.

[Bejita463]

Men and women in committed relationships should not have friends of the opposite sex and I don't care what you say about it.

 

Well, it is in bold so it must be true.

 

Seriously though, that is a matter of opinion. I don't agree with you. That doesn't make either one of us wrong. They are simply different schools of thought. Giving your significant other an ultimatum is a bad idea in this particular situation though, in my opinion. That is basically saying "think what I do or else!"

 

I have 3 female friends I have known for roughly half of my life. None of which I have any attraction to. I never have, and I never will. If I had a significant other give me that ultimatum, they would be telling me that I can't maintain those friendships do to what I perceive as close-minded intolerance.

 

I've had people give me such ultimatums before, and I have always chosen the party that wasn't trying to force their views onto me.

 

 

Edit:

Well, I did read one chat that he had with a young girl, like 10-15 years younger than us. What they have in common, I have no idea. He mentioned that he was home alone and that I was working and she responded with "maybe that's a good thing"

 

I don't know what to think about that.

 

I don't either.

[Island Girl]

Men and women in committed relationships should not have friends of the opposite sex and I don't care what you say about it.

 

That's it in a nutshell - you need to put that ultimatum to him & then let him decide if he wants to stay in the relationship. If he agrees & then continues in the same way then move on.

 

Exactly.

 

OP - this bolded comment was from you.

 

Clearly you have very strong feelings about this NOT being okay.

 

If he does think it is okay then it will continue to be a problem between the two of you.

 

So you put it out there that it is something you can not live with.

 

If he keeps it up you should move on and find someone who is like minded.

[bluechocolate]

Bejita - the bit in bold was said by the OP - not me.

 

FWIW I would run a mile from anyone who put that sort of ultimatum to me.

[Bejita463]

Bejita - the bit in bold was said by the OP - not me.

 

FWIW I would run a mile from anyone who put that sort of ultimatum to me.

 

Oh. My apologies. I must have missed it when it was originally said.

My opinion stands, even though I was replying to the wrong person.