still trying to fix the porn issue I created - any ideas?

[manugeorge]

I totally agree with you, manugeorge.

 

I have made some posts to this affect on another porn thread..that women are sexual beings too..with drives, and urges and lusts.

 

Men don't own the market on sexual desire.

 

But when was the last time a woman came up to a married woman, pointed and said, "Wouldn't you like to F THAT?"

 

Men think nothing of saying that to another man..as if all men, married or not, want to F anything they see.

 

But few women are going to approach married women and say, "Hey, wanna F that. Yeah, baby."

 

The married woman would probably say, "I beg your pardon," feeling somewhat insulted by the suggestion.

 

But not the man. He's not going to feel insulted at all...He's just going to acknowledge.."Hell yeah, I want to...but I'm just going to go home and be a good little boy."

 

Am I the only one that sees this this way?

 

It's society Taylor, women...and men for that matter have been socialized since the dawn of man that sex is a man's thing. Women are not suppose to desire it...at least not without ulterior motives. We are not suppose to want it, give it, think about it, touch it, sniff it, make fun of it, acknowledge it or whatever. We have been schooled that it solely belongs to men. This is something ingrained in our psyche so it's no wonder that we have all sorts of hang ups over it.

 

The other would be hormones. Men have an abundance of testosterone while we were just given a sprinkle to supplement our estrogen. So sexual assertiveness in most women becomes a learned behavior because we don't have that natural aggression in us.

 

I don't so much blame women who have all sorts of issues with porn, sex, masturbation, etc. We are all products of conditioning.

[Brulee]

Taylor, I so agree with your thoughts and points - these are the same feelings that I have. It makes me question why I am so faithful in the first place - no, I don't look at other men and imagine what it would be like to F--- them. That is where some of the problems arise - it hurts to know that my partner does and is curious about this - why on earth would he not do it then? I guess, if I was like that, with those desires, I most likely would F---them. I think this is why it is so easy for me to remain faithful to one man. It is something that is so easy for me to give to a partner. Knowing a partner does not feel the same, and is "giving up" what he would enjoy to please me instead, HURTS. Why would he ever even commit then - it seems like a lost cause if he will always wonder what this woman or that woman would be like - then it sounds as if all of these husbands really are not that comitted to their wives at all - more like they are leashed and would f__everyone if they could break out of their wife's hold on them. and if they would not lose their wife if they were to live out their fantasies.

Is it not hard to trust a man, if you think he would like to do others?

Is love not supposed to take precedence over these type of desires? Is not feeding these desires with viewing photos of naked women playing with fire and making a real experience more possible since your are playing it through your fantasies on a frequent basis? What would make you turn down a real offer then, since this is your fantasy come to life?

Honestly, do most men wish they could be with others? Is there ever a man out there who loves a woman so much, that he doesn't focus on any desires for other women - yes see another attractive woman, but leave it at that - not fantasize about her sexually? This sounds so crazy - maybe people should remain single then?

I am really wondering if my partner even loves me at all...

[ashleyjj]

He may love you but I would say he doesn't love you enough. Because Love is something that we do. It's actions. Not empty words and gestures. A man who genuinely loves you wants to please you. He wants to see you happy and vice versa.

 

 

What you've written is really profound and it really makes me think. If that's the standard of what love is, then even I don't love him enough. Because, you know what, as much as I love him, I love myself more. As much as I want him to be happy, I have a bigger urge to see myself happy. And that's why I think, as much as he loves me, he would prioritize his satisfaction to mine. Same thing applies to myself.

[Mr. Lucky]

LOL, and here it comes.. next there will be the speculations as to how and why

this is the fault of the wife posting.

Or, if what you've posted about your exH is true, it could simply be that she married a shallow, self-centered, emotionally-stunted Narcissist...

 

Mr. Lucky

[taylor]

Men don't have to encourage women to watch porn - they do it because its their choice' date=' their freedom. Your responses are as if women don't like it - they do and there's nothing wrong with it.[/quote']

 

I don't have a problem with porn. It doesn't exist in my household. And I doubt there is a problem with porn in households where both husband and wife enjoy and both reap benefits.

 

On this thread, we are addressing households where one spouse enjoys but the other doesn't...where porn is an issue.

 

If my responses are "as if" women don't like it..it's because there are women who don't like it. And I don't doubt that if there were any households where women indulged but the men were opposed, those men wouldn't "like it" either..especially if they reaped no benefit from it.

 

They reap the benefit themselves. Its none of my business, frankly.

 

I will venture to guess then that you also indulge in porn. If you didn't and your SO did with no benefit to you whatsoever, it would bother you. And if your SO chose to masturbate to porn rather than have sex with you, it would bother you.

 

an improved sex life is about the only way to reduce porn consumption.

 

If this is true, then why don't men turn the internet off and close the magazine, and get busy improving his sex life with his wife...especially with those wives who are SCREAMING for their husbands to pay attention to them...like the posters above???

 

Alot of wasted energy being poured into porn, when there is a sex life to be fixed, don't you think?

 

Again, it's like a cheating spouse, instead of fixing the marital issue, they turn to something else that will no doubt hurt the marriage, not help it.

[soserious1]

I think a big part of the problem is a question of drive, if a man desires sex 5 times a week and his wife only twice, they decide to compromise with sex 3-4 times a week and the man using porn, self-pleasure to make up the difference.

 

Problems arise though when a wife wants sex 5 times a week and she's got a husband who's more than happy with sex twice weekly.. if said husband uses

his sexual energy to self-pleasure with porn and he's then sated and no longer in the mood, you've got problems.

 

The partner with the lower desire level controls the sex in a relationship.. if that lower desire partner spends their sexual coin in porn, then chances are good there's not going to be much if anything left for their spouse.

[headlesschicken]

shouldn't these women who are victims of men who watch porn, instead of screaming for attention, dressing up, begging for a mercy ****......stop playing the role of the victim and get out of these terrible loveless relationships in which they are oh so victimized and unloved and taken advantage of? i mean, come on ladies, the only reason you are continually treated that way is because you allow it to happen! stop trying to be a martyr and live your life the wway you want!!

[manugeorge]

You're right that I want to have sex with him because of all those things but, there were also times when I did not want to have sex with him even though I love him very much.

 

A few years back, I was so busy at work that sex was the last thing on my mind. I would often reject his advances, very much like how the husbands here complained about their wifes. It didn't occur to me at that time how rarely we had sex, it just kinda slipped my mind I guess.

 

Then one day, it hit me. He has, infact, stopped asking. We might have sex here and there, but it wasn't like before. So I tried to initiate more but it was my turn to hit a stumbling block. Then it hit me again. He doesn't need me anymore because he has found a replacement, porn! It didn't occur to me, until then, that he has been watching porn all along. Like I said, I have no problem with porn so I hadn't even noticed his porn activities. Until the sex dies off, that's when I finally realized he does not need me anymore because he has his porn.

 

So how would you explain his lack of desire for you?

 

I wish I knew the answer to this.

 

Ashley thanks for explaining some of the roots of your problem, it actually helps us to understand the situation a lot better. So there was a breakdown in communication at some point. A breakdown in intimacy, that happens, it's understandable.

 

But you see, we all experience those bumps, and love, genuine love and affection revives the intimacy, it revives the communication. He used porn to replace you while you were "absent", maybe out of curiosity but now somehow he's got hooked. Now that you have returned, either he is so hooked on it, he can't see straight or he is just hanging on to it out of spite(you neglecting him and all). Or maybe he has just realized, like you said that he doesn't need you anymore.

 

I still think it all comes back to love. A person who truly loves you will not refuse to work out issues with you. A person who truly loves you will be upset at your offense but will also be willing to work towards reconciliation. A person who truly loves you will try to find a way back to you when you lose each other in the journey.

 

Have you sat him down to explain your neglect? Have you apologized for allowing stress to derail your intimacy? Or do you just dress up and wait for his penis to spring to attention? I would suggest you start initiating there. Don't ask for sex on that day, just sit him down and talk to him, admit your part in the intimacy break down, apologize and start brainstorming ways to find your way back to each other. Listen to him, without judgement, without defenses and watch what happens.

[Mr. Lucky]

I do not begrudge men, or women, who indulge in porn when they do not have a SO to get it from. Where else are these lonely, frustrated people supposed to meet their sexual needs. But if you are in a committed relationship, you have a wife to turn to to get your needs met. If you decide you need variety..something different from your wife..to keep you satisfied sexually, and you turn your eyes to the body of another woman while you orgasm at the sight and thought of her, you are as good as cheating, in her eyes. She feels as if you have to turn to another woman, another body, to get your pleasure. And that's exactly what cheaters do.

Where your theory falls apart is in this simple fact - anyone that would state that, while in a relationship, they've never sexually entertained the "thought" of a man or women other than their SO is a liar. So does that make us all cheaters?

 

To spend all this angst and emotional energy wondering what's going on in your partner's brain is foolish and unproductive. Successful couples have better things to do...

 

Mr. Lucky

[ashleyjj]

The partner with the lower desire level controls the sex in a relationship.. if that lower desire partner spends their sexual coin in porn, then chances are good there's not going to be much if anything left for their spouse.

 

And the story goes...

 

Wife: You need to watch less porn and start having sex more frequently.

 

Husband: Porn is not the problem.

 

Wife: But then why are we not having sex?

 

Husband: Porn is not the problem.

 

Wife: Ok then can we have more sex.

 

Husband: We have no sex problem. You have a problem.

 

Porn or no porn, no sex is a problem. Unless we get the man to cooperate, a woman cannot improve the sex life singularly, it takes a woman AND a man to have sex.

 

But as what everyone suggests, he doesn't love me enough and so maybe I should leave him? Dare I tell my friends that I'm getting a divorce because he doesn't love me enough since he doesn't want to have sex with me?

[soserious1]

shouldn't these women who are victims of men who watch porn, instead of screaming for attention, dressing up, begging for a mercy ****......stop playing the role of the victim and get out of these terrible loveless relationships in which they are oh so victimized and unloved and taken advantage of? i mean, come on ladies, the only reason you are continually treated that way is because you allow it to happen! stop trying to be a martyr and live your life the wway you want!!

 

Oh I did exactly that.. I divorced him

[manugeorge]

But as what everyone suggests, he doesn't love me enough and so maybe I should leave him? Dare I tell my friends that I'm getting a divorce because he doesn't love me enough since he doesn't want to have sex with me?

 

While I'm not advocating divorce all willy nilly, I actually don't see anything wrong in telling your friends exactly that. Not having your needs met in a marriage IS grounds for divorce, if not, why would you stay married? If sex is important enough to you that you can't function properly without it, or you can't be reasonably happy without it, then by all means, let that be your reason for leaving him.

 

The point is why be married if you are miserable in the marriage? To keep up appearances? to who? How many people live in your marriage and experience the heartache with you? So why would you give credence to what they think over your happiness and well being?

 

On another tangent, what have you done and what are you doing to solve this no sex issue?

[ashleyjj]

 

Have you sat him down to explain your neglect? Have you apologized for allowing stress to derail your intimacy? Or do you just dress up and wait for his penis to spring to attention? I would suggest you start initiating there. Don't ask for sex on that day, just sit him down and talk to him, admit your part in the intimacy break down, apologize and start brainstorming ways to find your way back to each other. Listen to him, without judgement, without defenses and watch what happens.

 

Believe me, I've tried. Problem is, he doesn't think there's a problem. He doesn't want to talk about it. Whenever I mention our failing sex lives, he will always try to run away from talking about it. He will smile, kiss me, say yes we'll have more sex but never actually talk about it. I dare not even mention the porn. The one time I talked about porn, it only caused him to try to hide his activities from me but did not help my cause one bit.

 

In the last 2 years, I've gone from "it must be porn" to "he might have medical problem getting it up" to "I've given up" at various stages. At the end of the day, I still have this gut feeling that he's overly desensitized to sex due to too much porn.

[taylor]

The day a man no longer wants sex with his wife is the day he no longer wants HER. Not just sex but all of her and it's the day she should head out the door accordingly.

 

Same for men in sexless marriages. When the wife loses interest in sex with him, he blames it on her...her libido, her hormones, etc. He doesn't realize that she "NO LONGER WANTS HIM...NOT JUST SEX BUT ALL OF HIM AND THAT'S THE DAY HE SHOULD HEAD OUT THE DOOR ACCORDINGLY."

 

But men continue to blame the woman, whether it's HIM that 'loses interest" or her that "loses interest."

 

The thing is men who lose interest turn to porn (if I'm understanding you correctly).

 

What do women turn to?

 

 

 

Many women will not, cannot take the hint, they stay cry, wail, yell, plead, beg, throw tantrums. They hang on to dead relationships long long after the corpse has decomposed and maggots are feasting on it.

 

Many men hang on to relationships in which their wives have lost interest, too. They can't take the hint. They don't cry. But they get irritable, frustrated, and cast blame on a "b*tch" of a wife....and they threaten to go outside the marriage if things don't get better. Sorry, buddy, but they aren't going to get better because the "corpse has already decomposed and the maggots are feasting on it."

 

the porn issue is just a symptom of something bigger. Just another one in a long line of issues that has infested your relationship. Yet, you ignore everything else, because you can't handle the fact that it's time to move on. You ignore everything else and zone in on porn for dear life.

 

And men do the same thing in sexless marriages. They zone in on what "b*tches" there wives are...how their wives just don't like sex anymore and they can't figure out why...must be their age, their loss of sex drive..Men hold on to these notions with dear life because they can't handle the fact that it's time to move on. They can't accept the fact that their wives just don't find them desireable anymore.

[ashleyjj]

 

The point is why be married if you are miserable in the marriage? To keep up appearances? to who? How many people live in your marriage and experience the heartache with you? So why would you give credence to what they think over your happiness and well being?

 

On another tangent, what have you done and what are you doing to solve this no sex issue?

 

I still want to be with him because we are really happy together, aside from the sex issues. What have I done? Aside from trying to gently talking to him, it's like the stuffs soserious has done. Initiate sex, try to keep it more fun, etc. At one point I was suspecting it could be because he's too tired to have sex so I just made him lie down and let me do all the work. I think he likes that for a while that but even that could get old after sometime. What I feel is, nothing is going to work until he wants to work on it.

[manugeorge]

I still want to be with him because we are really happy together, aside from the sex issues. What have I done? Aside from trying to gently talking to him, it's like the stuffs soserious has done. Initiate sex, try to keep it more fun, etc. At one point I was suspecting it could be because he's too tired to have sex so I just made him lie down and let me do all the work. I think he likes that for a while that but even that could get old after sometime. What I feel is, nothing is going to work until he wants to work on it.

 

You are right on that one. But I'm sorry to keep harping, it all still comes back to the Love thing. He claims there are no problems, fine, maybe for HIM everything is kosher. But he sees that you are in pain, and he's not willing to even entertain your discomfort and try to come to the root of it? He is not interested in hearing you out and helping solve whatever problems there are, or at least helping you to see that perhaps, maybe you are overreacting. He just plainly doesn't give a damn and immediately shuts you up with "there is no problem".

 

My SO and I have many moments when we do not see eye to eye on matters. Sometimes, my sensitivity level is higher than his and sometimes his is higher than mine. But what we both try hard not to do is dismiss each other offhandedly. When he approaches me with something that bugs him, even if I don't necessarily think is a big deal,I don't roll my eyes and tell him to shut it. Because his pain is my pain and since he's not the type to cry wolf, when he brings something to my attention that's disturbs him, I give him the respect and courtesy of hearing him out.

[soserious1]

Believe me, I've tried. Problem is, he doesn't think there's a problem. He doesn't want to talk about it. Whenever I mention our failing sex lives, he will always try to run away from talking about it. He will smile, kiss me, say yes we'll have more sex but never actually talk about it. I dare not even mention the porn. The one time I talked about porn, it only caused him to try to hide his activities from me but did not help my cause one bit.

 

In the last 2 years, I've gone from "it must be porn" to "he might have medical problem getting it up" to "I've given up" at various stages. At the end of the day, I still have this gut feeling that he's overly desensitized to sex due to too much porn.

 

Ah, I see you've already attempted to engage your husband in "The talk" with zero success. What I can offer you is observations based on my own experience, your mileage may vary.

 

At some point you're either going to decide that the rest of the relationship and your children's best interests outweigh the sexual aspect of the marriage and you'll decide to stay. In order to do this you'll either need to basically shut down the sexual side of yourself..or engage in affairs, neither of these options are good.

 

If you decide to seriously attempt yet again to have "The Talk" only this time you tell him that the lack of sex is a deal breaker, that you can and will divorce over be prepared for a few things.

 

1. Gaslighting... he'll sit there and mimize your complaints, he'll rationalize

100 different ways about why you two don't have sex.

 

2. Shaming... he'll tell you you're oversexed, that your constantly asking for sex turns him off, if you backed off and weren't such a biatch he'd want it more.

 

After this talk, wounded, you'll try backing off, you won't initiate, you'll go out of your way to avoid doing,saying or wearing anything that could be viewed as remotely sexual. He may or he may not have sex with you once, maybe twice to get you öff his back... and things will quickly go back to the way they were before.. only now you no longer initiate... so you go from very rare sex to no sex whatsoever.

 

After 6 months to maybe a year of this you decide to again have "The Talk"

only this time you flat out tell him that you're not sure what's happened but that you cannot imagine living the rest of your life in a sexless marriage and that you've got a lawyer and are ready to file for a divorce.

 

He responds with ANGER, he'll admit to the porn and probably a few other side sexual interests you have no idea about, he'll throw insulting, hurtful words at you about your age, your body, your sexual drive, you name it, the sky's the limit.

 

IMHO, once a couple's gotten to a point where there's minimal sex and both parties aren't very eager and anxious to get help to get at the root of the difficulty then the marriage is toast.

 

My best advice to you? decide how you would feel if the sex never improves? can you live with that ? if not bring it out now, openly, directly in a calm, respectful but clear manner. If he's not on board with you in fixing this, get out now, don't wait several years only to divorce anyway with your very soul left in tatters like I did.

[ashleyjj]

When he approaches me with something that bugs him, even if I don't necessarily think is a big deal,I don't roll my eyes and tell him to shut it. Because his pain is my pain and since he's not the type to cry wolf, when he brings something to my attention that's disturbs him, I give him the respect and courtesy of hearing him out.

 

My man is not the type who will talk about his feelings. Whenever we have an argument, he'll just go sleep it off. The good thing is, it's all good in the morning and there' no grudges or anything. Bad thing is, of course, nothing gets solved. I've actually gotten used to this and we seldom have arguments. What I want, I tell him. I don't expect him to "know". This works since we have an understanding. Well, except for the sex part.

 

As to the love part, I really don't know how to measure how much we love each other. Does sex = love? You love, so you must have sex? I don't have sex with you, so I don't love you?

 

On one hand, it's not exactly true for me because I have always love him even back when I was always rejecting his advances. Or should the question be can I stay in love despite the lack of sex?

[ashleyjj]

Ah, I see you've already attempted to engage your husband in "The talk" with zero success. What I can offer you is observations based on my own experience, your mileage may vary.

 

My best advice to you? decide how you would feel if the sex never improves? can you live with that ? if not bring it out now, openly, directly in a calm, respectful but clear manner. If he's not on board with you in fixing this, get out now, don't wait several years only to divorce anyway with your very soul left in tatters like I did.

 

Thank you so much soserious. Your story sounds almost exactly the same as what happened in the last 2 years. Except that we don't have any children, yet, and I'm pretty sure we won't be having any until we could get the problem solved.

 

I wish I could be as strong as you though. As I've said earlier, things are great except for the sex. Getting a divorce is huge, I gotta really think this through. Unless, unless I could do something different, I don't doubt that my story will end the same way as yours. And to think that despite all your ex's protest and anger, he was quick to get himself a young sweet thing after the divorce so maybe what the others are saying about "not loving you anymore" is true.

[soserious1]

Thank you so much soserious. Your story sounds almost exactly the same as what happened in the last 2 years. Except that we don't have any children, yet, and I'm pretty sure we won't be having any until we could get the problem solved.

 

I wish I could be as strong as you though. As I've said earlier, things are great except for the sex. Getting a divorce is huge, I gotta really think this through. Unless, unless I could do something different, I don't doubt that my story will end the same way as yours. And to think that despite all your ex's protest and anger, he was quick to get himself a young sweet thing after the divorce so maybe what the others are saying about "not loving you anymore" is true.

 

Oh he had the sweet young thing prior to our divorce, he wanted to stay married because I was the sole bread winner, he had a comfortable lifestyle

with me.

 

As far as I can guess he had his own mid-life crisis, his own aging issues, having to look into my face served as a constant reminder that he wasn't 25 anymore and he couldn't tolerate that, hence massive amounts of porn,web cam sex and real hook up's via craig's list.

 

I don't hate my ex for falling out of love with me, I hate him for the years of sexual draught, gaslighting, blame shifting and every miserable word he flung at me concerning my age, face,body.

 

What I will say to you is this, you two have no children yet.. if he is not just as anxious and just as invested as you in fixing this thing, I'd get out NOW.

[ashleyjj]

What I will say to you is this, you two have no children yet.. if he is not just as anxious and just as invested as you in fixing this thing, I'd get out NOW.

 

What's so sad is that we just got married 2 years ago, but we have been together much longer. If he wanted out, just say so and we could have ended things before we even got married. He's the breadwinner so he's definitely not staying for the money. Who knows why he's doing all this, sigh.

 

You know, we didn't even have sex on our wedding day. When I complained to him, he said I watch too much tv??? One time, when my mom and sis were visiting and living with us for 3 weeks, he said he had to go grab something from the stores. 20 minutes later, I happened to go down and saw him standing at the front of the bulding (we were living in an apartment back then). I was furious because he couldn't tell me what he was doing standing there on a rainy day instead of going to the store. We got into an argument and instead of telling me the truth, he got real angry and threw his iphone to the floor, breaking it. I really had no idea what he was doing back then. Looking back, I'm pretty sure he was just looking at porn on his iphone, of course he couldn't explain that to me. And of course, he carries his precious (new) iphone everywhere he goes now. If that's not porn addiction, I don't know what is.

[taylor]

shouldn't these women who are victims of men who watch porn, instead of screaming for attention, dressing up, begging for a mercy ****......stop playing the role of the victim and get out of these terrible loveless relationships in which they are oh so victimized and unloved and taken advantage of? i mean, come on ladies, the only reason you are continually treated that way is because you allow it to happen! stop trying to be a martyr and live your life the wway you want!!

 

True, they should get out of these relationships. They are toxic.

 

That's why I said a few posts back to Brulee, if you don't like the man+porn package, regift it. Put a pretty little bow on it and some shiny paper and sent it on its way. hSome other woman, most likely a woman+porn package, will pick it up, open it up, and be absolutely delighted.

[taylor]

Where your theory falls apart is in this simple fact - anyone that would state that, while in a relationship, they've never sexually entertained the "thought" of a man or women other than their SO is a liar. So does that make us all cheaters?

 

To spend all this angst and emotional energy wondering what's going on in your partner's brain is foolish and unproductive. Successful couples have better things to do...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Mr. Lucky,

 

You are expending alot of energy trying to find a little hook to hang your hat on.

 

The fact is men don't just think fleeting thoughts about other women. They buy porn, take it home, stick it in the DVD, get all hot and bothered by the sight of naked women, and orgasm over it. And they do this over and over again, many at the expense of hurting wives who don't understand why he would rather orgasm to porn than orgasm with her.

 

And that's a fact.

 

A man in a sex-troubled marriage who chooses to find sexual gratification in a fantasy filled porn video of naked women, is not much different than the man who seeks sexual gratification in a fantasy affair with his naked OW.

 

Both are forms of escape. Both hurt their partners. Both are indulgent, selfish acts met with great denial as to their importance in meeting sexual needs.

[taylor]

But as what everyone suggests, he doesn't love me enough and so maybe I should leave him? Dare I tell my friends that I'm getting a divorce because he doesn't love me enough since he doesn't want to have sex with me?

 

Of course not. Tell your friends what men tell THEIR friends when they get divorced:

 

That frigid husband of mine lost his sex drive...he doesn't like sex. He just doesn't like it...must be low libido. He completely lost his libido (scratch your head) So, what's a woman to do. I have needs, you know. There's no way I could stay in a sexless marriage a minute longer..no woman should have to put up with "no sex", not when I know I can get it from half a dozen men that walk down the street. Like I said, I have needs..and he wasn't putting out....Time to divorce and put this body back in action. The hot guys are waiting.

 

Seriously, what do you care what your friends think. Get the divorce, move on, be happy.

[blair08]

ashley, something I noticed a page or two back..you had stated, that when you have talked to him about things...he said, "HE doesn't have a problem...YOU do!" That's pretty much a typical response from someone who doesn't want to maybe own up to THEIR part of the problem. Blaming another is always easier. One thing I can't stand or tolerate is a person who is a finger pointer...one who put things off or blames another and will NOT share in, or take their part of the blame for something. A marriage is about two people.