still trying to fix the porn issue I created - any ideas?

[taylor]

Brulee,

 

Are you 100% sure you want to accept his porn use? Have you thought it thru enough in your mind? You need to be 100% sure.

 

If you want to accept his porn use you have to stop sending him mixed messages. You have the guy totally confused.

 

First you tell him you don't accept it. So what does he do? He hides it.

 

Then you do a 180 and tell him you don't mind if he looks at it. He doesn't believe you because you have him totally convinced that you REALLY don't like it and don't want him looking at it. So what does he do? He continues to look but continues to hide it by deleting the history. He doesn't trust you.

 

Then you do another 180 and you start looking at porn yourself, after you jumped all over him about it and made it clear to him how disgusting it is. So how is he supposed to respond to that? You have him going in circles. He's confused.

 

My suggestion:

 

Sit down with your husband and have a calm, honest, face-to-face talk with him.

 

First, be true to yourself. Tell him you personally do not enjoy porn.

 

Second, validate him. Tell him you understand why he might enjoy porn and that he has every right to view it if he would like to. Tell him you have no right to stand in his way of enjoying it, just because you don't enjoy it.

 

Third, assure him. Tell him you want him to feel comfortable doing whatever he wants to do in the privacy of his own home. Assure him that you fully accept his right to view porn. Assure him that there will be no repercussions on your part if he views it. Tell him you totally accept this behavior.

 

Address the history deletion. Tell him it is a matter of trust. Tell him he does not have to feel as if he has to hide the porn from you by deleting the history. Tell him that when he does this it makes you feel like he can't trust you. Tell him how it feels to not feel trusted. Tell him you both need to be able to trust the other. You need to trust that his porn use won't spill over into the bedroom. Tell him that you do trust him in this regard. And tell him he needs to trust that you won't jump all over him when he looks at porn. Tell him he can trust you on this.

 

Then mean what you say. DO what you say. It will take time for both of you to trust each other.

 

If viewing porn yourself will help you cope with his usage, do it. But he will never believe you enjoy it because you have made it abundently clear to him that you don't.

 

IF you truly cannot accept his porn use, the above suggestion will not work at all.

 

If you can't accept the porn, it's as good as saying you don't accept him because it is a package deal. If you don't want the package, regift.

[bean1]

I think Brulee and her husband would seriously benefit from marital counseling because it seems like that they are so emotional (both) about this subject that they are not able to properly communicate with each other. If they can't communicate properly, then there is no hope for solving it. A counselor will assist them in how to deal with this issue without resorting to secrecy and passive-aggresive techniques.

[Jersey Shortie]

I agree with Bean. Unfortunetly, porn is truly important to men and not many men can live without it in their lives.

 

 

 

Somehow Jersey, I had a feeling you'd weigh in .

 

How is telling her that, if she has issues with his conduct and values, she should find someone who's POV more closely aligns with hers putting "all the blame and responsibility on women" ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

And you are weighing in right after me Mr. Lucky, are we both surprised? I doubt it.

[bean1]

It's very easy to say "go find someone with your POV", if you are 20 years old and have all the time in the world to date around. Marriage IS for better or for worse and I think all attempts should be made before ending it. It's so easy to say breakup or divorce, but don't people owe it to each other to try and work things out? At least all attempts should be made.

[Mr. Lucky]

It's very easy to say "go find someone with your POV", if you are 20 years old and have all the time in the world to date around. Marriage IS for better or for worse and I think all attempts should be made before ending it. It's so easy to say breakup or divorce, but don't people owe it to each other to try and work things out? At least all attempts should be made.

Bean1, I agree with what you say. The OP isn't married, this is her fiancee (I thought she'd mentioned that in this thread but it's in her other one). She is certainly entitled to her feelings on the subject and I think her fiancee's reaction is something that she should take into account before she moves forward. Whether it's porn or where he leave his dirty socks, I don't like her chances of "fixing" him after they get married...

 

Mr. Lucky

[bean1]

Mr Lucky,

 

I apologize, I didn't realize they were not married yet. I can't imagine beginning a marriage with such anger, conflict, and miscommunication. Perhaps the OP would benefit from reading the divorce & separation forum and read about others who thought that things would get better. This is a divorce waiting to happen.

[voldigicam]

Porn isn't equivalent to another person. It's a separate program or whatever.

 

A reasonable solution is to establish an access time. He leaves no trace. If asked he indicates what he's looking at or whether he used that time. He always has to take his time. What he chooses to do with it is his business.

 

Avoids the the lying/guilt thing.

 

Establishes trust.

 

Accommodates the need.

 

Works.

 

Suppression simply leads to an eventual outburst of something.

 

Always, porn not equal other woman.

[Athena]

Brulee, I think your fiancé wants privacy when it comes to what TYPE of porn he is viewing... lets just hope it isn't gay or child porn...

 

Other that that, perhaps he doesn't want you to see how many different ones he's watching?

 

Anyway, if you want to watch porn, then watch it! You don't have to think you have to abstain from it.

As long as he's not addicted to it and overdoing it, or has no desires for you if he is masturbating to his porn, then what is so terrible?

 

As for other posters saying you told him its okay -- so tell him now you changed your mind (you're allowed to do this) and you are not comfortable with him watching porn, and give him your reasons, and listen to his reasons.

 

I must tell you that guys do not react well to an emotional storm from their woman... that will definitely drive him undercover...

[demrea]

...lets just hope it isn't gay ... porn...

..

 

whats wrong with gay porn? it doesnt mean he is going to cheat with men anymore than watching mainstream porn means he is going to cheat with a woman.

[Athena]

whats wrong with gay porn? it doesnt mean he is going to cheat with men anymore than watching mainstream porn means he is going to cheat with a woman.

 

There's nothing wrong with gay porn if you are gay. If you are a straight man and engaged to be married to a woman, but viewing gay porn, it means you are interested in gay sex, and that does not bode well for a marriage between a man and a woman, right? It would indicate his desire/interest to be with men -- Brulee, how would you feel about your man watching gay porn?

 

Surely there's a correlation between what you choose to watch, and your sexuality?!

[demrea]

 

Surely there's a correlation between what you choose to watch, and your sexuality?!

 

well just so i dont derail the thread, i will say i dont agree and will leave it at that.

[Brulee]

Honesty time -

I hate that he feels the need to view other naked women, when I am willing and able and very interested in having sex with him. It makes me feel inadequate - it makes me feel not attractive - it makes me feel that in one sense he is cheating with another woman - he is actively imagining having sex with her. AND JUST HOW IS THIS SUPPOSED TO MAKE ME FEEL LIKE I AM THE ONLY ONE HE WANTS? Bull! I think it makes much more sense formen who do not have a sexual outlet to use porn - BUT, when a man has a woman who is in love with him, lives with him and wants sex - then there should be no need to look at other women in that fashion. He gets infuriated if I want to explain how I feel - feels I am trying to manipulate him. It makes me much more sensitive about him checking out women when we are in public - because I know how he is imagining them, since he purposely chooses to view women in this light. I read what Dr. Phil thinks aboutg porn - he thinks it is a form of cheating, it is selfish, it is disrepectful to your partner, and is is seeking something outside of the relationship, rather than from the relationship itself.

I hate what is does. I read that when a man views a lot of porn (from a porn addiction site) that when he then makes love to his real woman, flashes of the images he has been viewing are what he is really making love to. Wow - how special does that make a woman feel?

Somebody please explain one thing to me - why don't women do this to their men? Why does it seem that most women are much kinder to their men, not making them feel inadequate, compared, threatened. I honestly believe if you men who say we are just insecure/jealous, experienced your women masturbating to images of other men - not you, you might feel the pangs of insecurity and jealousy also. You fortunately most likely have never had to deal with this. You are very lucky. I think he is selfish not to be able to think about it and see the double standard bull, and the pain it causes, and decide that I am worth more and be willing to focus on us instead. As Dr. Phil stated, what is more important, the porn or your relationship. And this is the first time I have read anything this man writes about - I have never watched his show, but I related to his opinions on porn, and he is a man expressing these thoughts...

[Brulee]

One more thought I wish to express - it makes me not want to wash/fold his clothes, cook, do the kind little expressions of love, the many thoughtful things I would do for him, often, more often than not putting his needs above mine - because then I think what a fool I am for this man who cannot stop masturbating and pretending to be having sex with other women. Why is porn okay? Why is pretending at least twice a week, to be f______other women, in your head, after promising to be true to me, okay?

[Enema]

Completely ignoring the porn for a minute...

 

How is your sex life?

[Enema]

Double post.

 

You're going a little crazy here, reading way too much into this. Calm down.

[LoveNeverFails]

One more thought I wish to express - it makes me not want to wash/fold his clothes, cook, do the kind little expressions of love, the many thoughtful things I would do for him, often, more often than not putting his needs above mine - because then I think what a fool I am for this man who cannot stop masturbating and pretending to be having sex with other women. Why is porn okay? Why is pretending at least twice a week, to be f______other women, in your head, after promising to be true to me, okay?

 

In my opinion, its NOT ok to do this (to view porn).

 

My fiance had a porn addiction. I hated it. It made me feel so angry at men and sorry for women. It made me feel inferior compared to the women he masturbated to. It drove me to so much pain that I sought therapy.

 

I couldn't even go out in public because I was so worried he was thinking "i'd like to see her naked...shes hot." While I am sitting here not thinking anything like that about a man...it was unfair and it made me so angry!

 

I know the pain you feel and I am sorry that you have to go through it.

 

I would advise that if its a porn addiction, that he get help.

 

My fiance has been porn free for almost 3 years due to the help of "Covenant Eyes," online accountability that keeps track of all the sites he goes on.

 

Secondly, receive help for your self-esteem. It took me years to overcome the grief accompanied by pornography and I credit that to therapy. In therapy, I was encouraged to focus on my own progress and not his porn problem. I was encouraged to strengthen my self-esteem and trust with him. It was very hard work but fortunately it has paid off.

 

I hope this helps!

[Enema]

Honesty time -

I hate that he feels the need to view other naked women

It's not other naked women... it's porn.

 

... when I am willing and able and very interested in having sex with him.

 

It's not about sex, it's about masturbation. Two very different and separate things.

 

It makes me feel inadequate - it makes me feel not attractive

It's not about you at all. Why be so self-centered and insecure?

 

it makes me feel that in one sense he is cheating with another woman - he is actively imagining having sex with her.

 

It's a fantasy. It's not cheating. Stop being the thought-police. He can think whatever the hell he wants to while he's wanking.

 

AND JUST HOW IS THIS SUPPOSED TO MAKE ME FEEL LIKE I AM THE ONLY ONE HE WANTS? Bull!

 

Porn is a tool for masturbation, stop personalizing it and acting as if porn is real woman.

 

 

...when a man has a woman who is in love with him, lives with him and wants sex (1) - then there should be no need to look at other women(2) in that fashion.

 

You've done it again. 1) Masturbation and sex are completely unrelated. and 2) Stop thinking of porn as real women

 

He gets infuriated if I want to explain how I feel - feels I am trying to manipulate him.

... you are. You're trying to control how he masturbates. Highly offensive.

 

I read what Dr. Phil thinks aboutg porn....

 

Welll... if dr. Phil said it then it must be true....

 

Somebody please explain one thing to me - why don't women do this to their men? Why does it seem that most women are much kinder to their men, not making them feel inadequate, compared, threatened. I honestly believe if you men who say we are just insecure/jealous, experienced your women masturbating to images of other men - not you, you might feel the pangs of insecurity and jealousy also.

 

Many women masturbate to porn, romance novels or fantasies in their head. Hell, one of my ex-gf's used to masturbate to music videos of N-Sync.

 

There's nothing wrong with it in the slightest. You seem to be having trouble separating fantasy from reality.

[Brulee]

First, I need to thank you for taking your time in trying to help me sort this all out.

But, I do not see why you say it is not naked women. Actually, I do not think he is looking at porn movies, just photos of naked women. It is naked women.

HOw is pretending to be having sex with them, not a form of cheating?

 

I have often thought, that when I have seen movies where they show a man falling in love with a woman, they never, ever seem to show him wanting to pretend to be with another woman, when she leaves to go for work. They show him being in love with her and excited about her.

go figure

[Brulee]

and also, if that is what he really wants to be doing, why get in a commited relationship with me.

Honesty, I am often turning men's advances down - never wishing I could, but sacrificing for him, no , instead I don't want to cheat on him. I willingly only want one man. How can I possibly understand his wanting other women even if it is only his desire - but he doesn't carry through. I guess I think a man should want only his woman if he truly loves her. Maybe I am just messed up in the head?

[demrea]

 

 

I have often thought, that when I have seen movies where they show a man falling in love with a woman, they never, ever seem to show him wanting to pretend to be with another woman, when she leaves to go for work. They show him being in love with her and excited about her.

go figure

 

well thats a movie, not real life. it cant possibly show the depth of the character or no one would watch it.

[LoveNeverFails]

and also, if that is what he really wants to be doing, why get in a commited relationship with me.

Honesty, I am often turning men's advances down - never wishing I could, but sacrificing for him, no , instead I don't want to cheat on him. I willingly only want one man. How can I possibly understand his wanting other women even if it is only his desire - but he doesn't carry through. I guess I think a man should want only his woman if he truly loves her. Maybe I am just messed up in the head?

 

Its not fair. I know the pain. I know that I have wanted other men while with my fiancee and most of it was due to self-esteem issues.

 

It's one thing to have a man who does not actively seek out women. But if a man is looking at porn spite knowing his wife dislikes it, that is a big problem. How should a woman feel loved and special in that situation?

[manugeorge]

Brulee, you have a right to your opinions about porn, no one is telling you to change them. So now that you are finally being honest with yourself that you don't want him viewing porn, be honest WITH HIM. Enough with the games. Tell him you don't like it, period!. It will be up to him to decide if he wants to give it up for you or not. And it will be up to YOU to decide if you are willing to live with his decision.

 

It's not nearly as complicated as you make it seem. You have to know yourself enough to know what your deal breakers are. If porn happens to be one of them, then walk. Oy!, living in misery is NOT living. Banging your head against the wall each day is NOT living. Snooping all over the place, waiting for the other shoe to drop is NOT living.

 

Porn is not one of those negotiable things. Either you are ok with it or you are not. This decision, most women just kind of make subconsciously. You are either the type who doesn't feel threatened by it or you are not. I think it's inherent to our personalities. It will take a conscious therapeutic action to change that conviction. If you are not ready to put in that kind of work, then I won't even bother staying with the man. Because I can guarantee you that he will keep hiding it from you. If he doesn't do it at home, he will do it in his car or at his office.

 

You seem to want a logical explanation why men desire to view porn, and I'm not sure it's one of those things one can explain away. It'll be like asking why women like romance or foreplay. They just do, because it feels good. I'm not sure there is much more to explain than that.

[taylor]

Enema,

 

I don't really have an issue with porn. Don't view it. Neither does my husband. But I can empathize with the women who do as I put myself in their shoes.

 

If I may, I'd like to ask you a couple questions. Please be as honest as possible. Not trying to "prove" a point...just trying to see how a man would react if the situation were reversed...if it were women who loved porn more than men:

 

It's not other naked women... it's porn.

 

If you came home from work and walked in your bedroom and saw that your gf put pin-up posters of naked men on the walls all around the room for her viewing pleasure..would it bother you?

 

Would you say, "Hey, why do you have all these naked men on the wall" or would you say, "Hey, why do you have all this porn on the wall"?

 

Again, would it bother you?

 

And if she told you she had them there so that she could look at them while she masturbated, would it bother you?

 

 

 

 

It's not about sex, it's about masturbation. Two very different and separate things.

 

I agree the experience is different. Masturbation is self-satisfaction. You can focus 100 % on pleasing yourself. You don't have to be concerned about pleasing your partner or concerned about her pleasing you.

 

But isn't the outcome the same..an orgasm? During sex, your partner helps you have an orgasm. When you masturbate to porn, what helps you have an orgasm? How much focus is on looking at another woman's naked body parts to help you achieve that orgasm? Do you imagine touching, fondling, kissing, or f***ing THOSE particular body parts when you masturbate? Or are you thinking of your gf's body as you orgasm? And when you have sex with your girlfriend, do you ever run the porn video thru your head to help with your arousal?

 

How would you feel if your girlfriend thought about or imagined another naked man or his body parts while she orgasmed, either during masturbation or while having sex with you? Would you ever wonder if she was thinking about another man's body parts instead of yours when you were having sex with her? Would you be bothered if she was thinking about another naked man while having sex with you?

 

Surely no one can be the "thought police" but would it bother you KNOWING that you were not who she was visualizing when she orgasmed?

 

 

Why be so .. insecure?

 

Would it make you feel insecure if you were raking leaves or working on your car or sitting at the table paying bills and your gf told you she'd be back in a little while..and after a half-hour you went to check on her and she was in the bedroom masturbating to a porn video full of naked men? Would you even wonder why she chose to masturbate to the video of naked men rather than have sex with you? Or would you recognize that masturbation and sex with you are two, separate, unrelated activities?

 

 

 

He can think whatever the hell he wants to while he's wanking.

 

If your gf was thinking about her ex-boyfriend while she was masturbating, would it bother you? What if she was thinking about your best friend? How would you feel?

 

 

 

Porn is a tool for masturbation, stop personalizing it and acting as if porn is real woman.

 

Why do men need porn in order to masturbate? Women can masturbate perfectly fine...with the same effect..orgasm...without looking at pictures or videos of naked men. And we are supposed to be the sex who has a harder time climaxing. Why can we climax without porn, but men need it as a tool?

 

 

 

 

Masturbation and sex are completely unrelated...Stop thinking of porn as real women.

 

They are different but not totally unrelated. One is totally self-gratification whereas the other is a give-and-take activity. But they both involve visual stimulation, arousal, and orgasm...the difference being the source of arousal. In one case, the source of the arousal is a picture of a naked woman. In the other, the source is a real naked woman.

 

Would you be just as satisfied if the only masturbation tool you had at your disposal were naked pictures of your girlfriend? Could you be happy forsaking all pictures of all other naked women and be completely happy masturbating to only pictures of your naked girlfriend?

 

Why do men need pictures of OTHER naked women to masturbate to? Why don't they all just take pictures of their naked wives and girlfriends and use them for masturbation purposes when their wives and girlfriends aren't available?

 

Not trying to pick on you, Enema. Just trying to dig deeper into the male psyche. Trying to understand... This is a very hard topic for women to wrap their heads around. I, for one, would appreciate your insight.

 

Sorry, this was more than a couple questions.

 

Other males, insight please?

[taylor]

Double post.

 

You're going a little crazy here, reading way too much into this. Calm down.

 

You know, Enema, a few years ago I put a magazine picture of Brad Pitt...fully clothed...on my bathroom mirror..among other pictures and quotes, etc. that were already there.

 

When my husband saw the picture, he said, "What's that doing there. I want him more than me?"

 

If women enjoyed porn as much as men, the porn issue would not be so clear cut along gender lines.

 

Men would freak out if women did as they did.

 

You guys are lucky we don't need to look at a few hundred different penises to feel satisfied with our sex lives.

[Jersey Shortie]

It's not other naked women... it's porn.

 

There aren't naked women in porn?

 

 

 

It's not about you at all. Why be so self-centered and insecure?

 

It's about him. Why is he being so self centered and insecure?

 

 

It's a fantasy. It's not cheating. Stop being the thought-police. He can think whatever the hell he wants to while he's wanking.

 

And she can think what she wants. Aren't you trying to be the thought police demanding she stop having the thoughts and feelings on it she does?

 

Porn is a tool for masturbation, stop personalizing it and acting as if porn is real woman.

 

Errr, doesn't porn have real women in it????

 

 

You've done it again. 1) Masturbation and sex are completely unrelated. and 2) Stop thinking of porn as real women

 

Stop being the thought police and telling her what to think porn as.

 

 

... you are. You're trying to control how he masturbates. Highly offensive.

 

Here you are trying to control her view points and shaming her into ones that is more agreeable for men and his needs but not her and her needs.

 

 

Many women masturbate to porn, romance novels or fantasies in their head. Hell, one of my ex-gf's used to masturbate to music videos of N-Sync.

 

I find most women focus on their partner and most men seem to want to focus on anyone that isnt their partner. so why men bother pretending they care is beyond alot of women. It's obvious that alot of men don't. It's better to be the man's fantasy then his reality.

 

There's nothing wrong with it in the slightest. You seem to be having trouble separating fantasy from reality.

 

Overplayed accusation. No one here has any trouble knowing what fantasy and reality is. Doesn't make men want the fantasy any less either knowing it's fantasy. Makes men want it more. Infact, if you ask me, it seems to me more men then women are unable to seperate the two.

 

 

Double post.

 

You're going a little crazy here, reading way too much into this. Calm down.

 

 

It's comments like these make women think that a man only cares about his needs in the relationship. Her needs are ammounted to "crazy", "insecure"...his needs are "right"..."fair". I think yo ushould revaluate yourself before you start throwing around comments that are meant to humiliate the OP and not help her.