still trying to fix the porn issue I created - any ideas?

[taylor]

My man is not the type who will talk about his feelings. Whenever we have an argument, he'll just go sleep it off. The good thing is, it's all good in the morning and there' no grudges or anything. Bad thing is, of course, nothing gets solved. I've actually gotten used to this and we seldom have arguments. What I want, I tell him. I don't expect him to "know". This works since we have an understanding. Well, except for the sex part.

 

As to the love part, I really don't know how to measure how much we love each other. Does sex = love? You love, so you must have sex? I don't have sex with you, so I don't love you?

 

On one hand, it's not exactly true for me because I have always love him even back when I was always rejecting his advances. Or should the question be can I stay in love despite the lack of sex?

 

Alot of men will tell you that without sex, there is no love. Period.

 

If she doesn't give me sex, she doesn't love me. Period.

 

They use sex as a barometer to guage how successful/happy the relationship is.

 

Why would you not do the same?

 

Sex is a basic human need. And if you are married, both you and your husband "signed up" for it. Yet he isn't keeping his end of the deal.

 

Do you really want to go the rest of your life without sex? Could you? Why would you even consider that when there is a world of men out there...good men...who would jump at a chance to give you all the sex you want...make you feel beautiful and desireable.

 

No woman should ever have to beg for sex. There are just too many penises around to have to do that.

[Mr. Lucky]

The fact is men don't just think fleeting thoughts about other women. They buy porn, take it home, stick it in the DVD, get all hot and bothered by the sight of naked women, and orgasm over it. And they do this over and over again, many at the expense of hurting wives who don't understand why he would rather orgasm to porn than orgasm with her.

You can continue to pile on the ever expanding exaggerations and hysteria, but the truth in this thread is simple:

 

This problem only exists because the OP snooped into her BF's browser history. Unlike your panting depiction, I don't recall her ever posting that her partner was neglecting her for porn or that she had any complaint as to the quality or frequency of their sex life. Perhaps she can weigh in on the subject herself.

 

Are there men that use porn (amongst other potential vices)inappropriately? Sure there are and I feel for any woman unlucky enough to be married to one. Any man (or woman) that chooses a flat screen and a box of kleenex over their partner is a fool. One is steak (from a man's POV ) and the other is a picture of a steak. Which sounds more satisfying?

 

That's a different scenario than the OP's thread and from the Lifetime Channel movie you seem to be writing...

 

Mr. Lucky

[soserious1]

What about the option of totally foregoing monogamy entirely? Of setting yourself and your spouse free ?

 

What if the only default expected you had going in is that your partner would frequently desire others and would also act on that desire?

 

No promises, no lies, no squirming around justifying why doing everything but engaging in actual sex with another person was ok?

 

To me, the idea is actually very freeing.

[ashleyjj]

ashley, something I noticed a page or two back..you had stated, that when you have talked to him about things...he said, "HE doesn't have a problem...YOU do!" That's pretty much a typical response from someone who doesn't want to maybe own up to THEIR part of the problem. Blaming another is always easier. One thing I can't stand or tolerate is a person who is a finger pointer...one who put things off or blames another and will NOT share in, or take their part of the blame for something. A marriage is about two people.

 

I'm sorry if I've misled you, that conversation did not actually took place. It's merely a representation of my view of the problem. He wouldn't actually talk about it but what you've said sounds a lot like what I've told him before (on unrelated issues), that he has a tendency blame everyone but himself!

[taylor]

You can continue to pile on the ever expanding exaggerations and hysteria, but the truth in this thread is simple:

 

This problem only exists because the OP snooped into her BF's browser history. Unlike your panting depiction, I don't recall her ever posting that her partner was neglecting her for porn or that she had any complaint as to the quality or frequency of their sex life. Perhaps she can weigh in on the subject herself.

 

Are there men that use porn (amongst other potential vices)inappropriately? Sure there are and I feel for any woman unlucky enough to be married to one. Any man (or woman) that chooses a flat screen and a box of kleenex over their partner is a fool. One is steak (from a man's POV ) and the other is a picture of a steak. Which sounds more satisfying?

 

That's a different scenario than the OP's thread and from the Lifetime Channel movie you seem to be writing...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Mr. Lucky,

 

I do not watch the Lifetime Channel. In fact, I don't watch TV. I don't have time for that.

 

I do not believe I am painting a different scenario than what the OP is writing about. She has already said that she relates to much of what I have written.

 

Perhaps you are one of those men who prefers the steak over the picture of the steak. Good for you. I am sure your SO, if you have one, appreciates knowing that.

 

But some of these women here DON"T know that. They don't know that their husbands would rather have the steak than the picture of the steak. Why aren't they convinced? Because of their husband's behaviors and attitudes toward porn. And because of some of their behaviors toward them..ie..no interest in sex.

 

I really don't think these women are making these things up. I think their feelings are valid..they have clearly and logically explained why they feel the way they do regarding their husband's porn use. It affects them and it is affecting their marriages...some to the point where some of these women have either divorced or are contemplating divorce.

 

This is not hysteria. Women never consider divorce on a whim or a whirlwind of hysterical emotion. By the time a woman heads to a lawyer to divorce, she has thought it through very thoroughly. It's a very calculated move.

 

 

***

 

To say the OP would not have had a problem had she not snuck around and looked at his internet history is like saying a man would not have had a problem had he not hired a PI and found out his wife had a lover.

 

Ignorance is bliss, right?

[ashleyjj]

Alot of men will tell you that without sex, there is no love. Period.

 

If she doesn't give me sex, she doesn't love me. Period.

 

They use sex as a barometer to guage how successful/happy the relationship is.

 

Why would you not do the same?

 

 

I've been trying to understand and I think I'm getting there. He would choose porn over me but he'll definitely choose a supermodel over porn, so that's where the "attraction" issue comes into play. That's what everyone meant when they said "He's just NOT attracted to you", I think. On the other hand, give him 10 years with the same supermodel and I'm not sure even the supermodel could attract him anymore. What I'm trying to say is, the problem is not me, it's him.

 

So that's where the "He doesn't love you enough" comes into play. I have to really think it through to digest this. It's not as simple as just calling it off, I'm afraid

[taylor]

Or should the question be can I stay in love despite the lack of sex?

 

Why would you want to stay in a marriage with no sex? That would be like living with your brother!

 

You've only been married 2 years and already having sex problems with a man who can't express his feelings..a man who reverts to his "cave" rather than talk like a mature adult about problems...a man who sees nothing wrong with porn and could care less whether you do...a man who is not meeting your sexual needs..and apparently not meeting your emotional needs, either.

 

I just don't see how any woman could find happiness with a man like that.

[soserious1]

I've been trying to understand and I think I'm getting there. He would choose porn over me but he'll definitely choose a supermodel over porn, so that's where the "attraction" issue comes into play. That's what everyone meant when they said "He's just NOT attracted to you", I think. On the other hand, give him 10 years with the same supermodel and I'm not sure even the supermodel could attract him anymore. What I'm trying to say is, the problem is not me, it's him.

 

So that's where the "He doesn't love you enough" comes into play. I have to really think it through to digest this. It's not as simple as just calling it off, I'm afraid

 

Actually is is just as simple as "calling it off" and trust me when I tell you that it won't ever get any simpler than it is right now. It is more than possible that your husband married you because he felt obligated due to the length of time you lived together and because he loved aspects of your personality and hoped that he'd come to desire you more physically over time.

 

I'm guessing that you are still a fairly young woman, young enough to pick yourself up,dust yourself off and get back out and find a guy who not only loves you but who also desires you.

 

Your husband should be just as eager and just as anxious as you are to fix this problem before it goes into a horrible chasm that is unbridgable and that totally destroys your self-esteem in the process.

 

If the unspoken secret here is that he was never really physically attracted to you, better that fact come out now before you've got kids and another 10 years of hurt in your wake.

[taylor]

What I'm trying to say is, the problem is not me, it's him.

 

That's right..even though he has been trying to convince you otherwise. So how long are you going to live with this "problem"?

 

I have to really think it through to digest this. It's not as simple as just calling it off, I'm afraid

 

Of course you do. Divorce is a big decision and most women take a LONG, LONG time before they pick up that phone and call that attorney.

 

FWIW, I think you have gotten some great advice here from Manugeorge and SoSerious.

[taylor]

SoSerious,

 

Did it ever cross your mind that maybe you went thru all your pain and suffering so that you could help others like yourself going through the same torment...that some good could come of the wreckage?

[ashleyjj]

I just want to thank all of you for the great advice. This "problem" is killing me from within, and it doesn't help that I actually have an exam tomorrow. Between the exam and having to pretend that everything is all well and good, argh... Anyway gotta study now, thanks again!

[Brulee]

to clarify my situation. I would gladly enjoy sex at least 5 times a week, he maybe once or twice. Do you see the problem? Instead of him masturbating to porn when i leave i wish he would let me wear him out

[JackJack]

to clarify my situation. I would gladly enjoy sex at least 5 times a week, he maybe once or twice. Do you see the problem? Instead of him masturbating to porn when i leave i wish he would let me wear him out

 

Brulee, here it is like 10 pages later...and even after all the advice, or examples of things and people's situations etc.....YOU will end up having to make a choice at some point I'm sure. Its really all in what you're willing to put up with or tolerate. If you feel strongly about things, and he just wont budge on anything with this issue then you'll have to decide what you really want out of this situation and what's best for you.

[You'reasian]

You're right that I want to have sex with him because of all those things but, there were also times when I did not want to have sex with him even though I love him very much.

 

A few years back, I was so busy at work that sex was the last thing on my mind. I would often reject his advances, very much like how the husbands here complained about their wifes. It didn't occur to me at that time how rarely we had sex, it just kinda slipped my mind I guess.

 

Then one day, it hit me. He has, infact, stopped asking. We might have sex here and there, but it wasn't like before. So I tried to initiate more but it was my turn to hit a stumbling block. Then it hit me again. He doesn't need me anymore because he has found a replacement, porn! It didn't occur to me, until then, that he has been watching porn all along. Like I said, I have no problem with porn so I hadn't even noticed his porn activities. Until the sex dies off, that's when I finally realized he does not need me anymore because he has his porn.

 

So how would you explain his lack of desire for you?

 

I wish I knew the answer to this.

 

Well thought out post.

 

Something has triggered this man's substitution of porn for sex with this wife.

 

Does the wife still respect her husband? If she looses her respect for him she'll behave and speak in a way that distances him from her, which could lead him to using porn.

 

Sometimes the woman's friends plant ideas into her head as well. Naturally, their her support during crises.

 

When women hold out sex - for whatever reason (career, health/mental issues etc) enough times, you can drive a man to a point of no return in which he will no longer come to you for sexual gratification.

 

If a man stops looking at his wife and doesn't do things that makes her feel wanted, attracted and loved - she will do things like loose respect, hold out sex, find herself not being in the mood and become more needy or more demanding of him

 

and thus begins the vicious cycle....

 

Counselling is in order.

[soserious1]

Well thought out post.

 

Something has triggered this man's substitution of porn for sex with this wife.

 

Does the wife still respect her husband? If she looses her respect for him she'll behave and speak in a way that distances him from her, which could lead him to using porn.

 

Sometimes the woman's friends plant ideas into her head as well. Naturally, their her support during crises.

 

When women hold out sex - for whatever reason (career, health/mental issues etc) enough times, you can drive a man to a point of no return in which he will no longer come to you for sexual gratification.

 

If a man stops looking at his wife and doesn't do things that makes her feel wanted, attracted and loved - she will do things like loose respect, hold out sex, find herself not being in the mood and become more needy or more demanding of him

 

and thus begins the vicious cycle....

 

Counselling is in order.

 

I'd say that once you're to the point that you've got to pay a counselor thousands of dollars to find out why your husband would rather self-pleasure with porn than be with you that a woman would be better of spending her money on a good divorce lawyer and a dating site membership for herself.

[demrea]

Mr. Lucky,

 

You are expending alot of energy trying to find a little hook to hang your hat on.

 

The fact is men don't just think fleeting thoughts about other women. They buy porn, take it home, stick it in the DVD, get all hot and bothered by the sight of naked women, and orgasm over it. And they do this over and over again, many at the expense of hurting wives who don't understand why he would rather orgasm to porn than orgasm with her.

 

And that's a fact.

 

A man in a sex-troubled marriage who chooses to find sexual gratification in a fantasy filled porn video of naked women, is not much different than the man who seeks sexual gratification in a fantasy affair with his naked OW.

 

Both are forms of escape. Both hurt their partners. Both are indulgent, selfish acts met with great denial as to their importance in meeting sexual needs.

 

i still think there are two different issues at play here.

 

1) viewing porn in general

2) viewing porn at the expense of intimate contact with spouse

 

some of us are saying that (1) should be fine unless it creates (2). others are arguing that (1) is cheating in and of itself.

 

a man (or women) who uses porn or housework or any other excuse to leave their other partner lacking in physical relations is doing harm to the relationship. porn viewing in and of itself is not the same thing.

 

in short, i agree. if a man is wacking off to porn and neglecting his wife, this is wrong. but thats no always the case, specifically speaking for my household anyhow.

[Els]

to clarify my situation. I would gladly enjoy sex at least 5 times a week, he maybe once or twice. Do you see the problem? Instead of him masturbating to porn when i leave i wish he would let me wear him out

 

Even though I'm an avid fan and usually avid supporter of porn...

 

Dammit, isn't it obvious that for Brulee, porn IS ruining their sex life?

 

If he can keep up with her sexual needs then to me, at least, porn isn't affecting their relationship.

 

But HE ONLY WANTS SEX ONCE OR TWICE A WEEK. Not because he's too busy, or lacking in sexual drive, because he still finds the time and drive to masturbate to porn.

 

That is not healthy.

 

Btw, taylor, I'm afraid I can't give you a true man's POV, but my SO doesn't mind watching me masturbate to porn at all. But if that was the only thing I wanted and I rejected his sexual advances because of it then I assume he'd have a problem with it, though.

[demrea]

Even though I'm an avid fan and usually avid supporter of porn...

 

Dammit, isn't it obvious that for Brulee, porn IS ruining their sex life?

 

If he can keep up with her sexual needs then to me, at least, porn isn't affecting their relationship.

 

But HE ONLY WANTS SEX ONCE OR TWICE A WEEK. Not because he's too busy, or lacking in sexual drive, because he still finds the time and drive to masturbate to porn.

 

That is not healthy.

 

Btw, taylor, I'm afraid I can't give you a true man's POV, but my SO doesn't mind watching me masturbate to porn at all. But if that was the only thing I wanted and I rejected his sexual advances because of it then I assume he'd have a problem with it, though.

 

i agree 100% with your assesment.

[Brulee]

thank you for understanding - this is how I feel. I had told him to let me take care of him instead and if I don't satisfy him, then resort to porn, but please save it for me!

Today we had our first calmer discussion about it, but alas it was because we had argued previously about other things - I really let my feelings out because I drank a bit too much that night.

Anyway, when he brought up how I was trying to be the thought police, I asked him to honestly answer me, if he came home and found me, masturbating to photos of men who were half his age, better looking, would it not hurt him at all? He answered that he would feel it was strange, and that I might need therapy to help me with my masturbating problem, but he would respect it was my problem. I then pointed out his answer and asked if men didn't then act strange and have a masturbation problem? I do think he saw some of the double standards. Anyway it was the very first time that he allowed me to discuss my thoughts about it without refusing to discuss it...

He did not wish to promise me that he would give it up for me, stating that he is not admitting to anything - thinking I was trying to get him to admit something. I told him I do not care about the past, just the present and the future. I asked him to please refrain and put that energy into our own sexl life instead. To try to understand that it most likely would be a deal breaker for me. We have stopped discussing it for now.

[Enema]

Well, I post on Friday, come back Monday and my post is 6 pages gone. So, my apologies to people that asked me questions - not going to bother with it.

 

I will restate that I think that masturbating and sex drive are unrelated.

 

I only want sex 1-2 times a week - I really do not want it any more frequently.

I also masturbate a couple times a week. It's a low-energy, fast, stress-reliever and I sometimes even do it a couple of hours after sex.

 

If I stopped masturbating, I wouldn't want more sex - I'd just have more stress.

 

Tell me: What are you going to do when he "stops" using porn and you still only have sex 1-2 times a week?

 

You've got porn and masturbation firmly in your rifle sight... I think it's just an easy target for you when really - you're just incompatible.

[soserious1]

Well, I post on Friday, come back Monday and my post is 6 pages gone. So, my apologies to people that asked me questions - not going to bother with it.

 

I will restate that I think that masturbating and sex drive are unrelated.

 

I only want sex 1-2 times a week - I really do not want it any more frequently.

I also masturbate a couple times a week. It's a low-energy, fast, stress-reliever and I sometimes even do it a couple of hours after sex.

 

If I stopped masturbating, I wouldn't want more sex - I'd just have more stress.

 

Tell me: What are you going to do when he "stops" using porn and you still only have sex 1-2 times a week?

 

You've got porn and masturbation firmly in your rifle sight... I think it's just an easy target for you when really - you're just incompatible.

 

So basically you're admitting that on average you divide your energy between porn and your partner but a lot of weeks you have actual sex once but beat off to porn twice ?

 

What will I do with a partner who wants to self-pleasure with porn more than he's intimate with me? that's easy,I'll sleep with other men. I'm no longer interested in serving as the faithful, loving lil'l wifey who goes thru life not getting her needs meet.

 

her: Sex is great when we have it, but we really don't have enough of it, ideally I'd like

sex 3-4 times a week

 

him: Sex 3-4 times a week? that's exhausting,it's too much work, I'll do you once,maybe twice

on a good week, I'd much rather use porn, it's easier and less work

 

her: ok, if you feel that way,please, don't do me any favors, spare yourself all that work, I'm not interested in your offer, keep your porn.

[Els]

Well, I post on Friday, come back Monday and my post is 6 pages gone. So, my apologies to people that asked me questions - not going to bother with it.

 

I will restate that I think that masturbating and sex drive are unrelated.

 

I only want sex 1-2 times a week - I really do not want it any more frequently.

I also masturbate a couple times a week. It's a low-energy, fast, stress-reliever and I sometimes even do it a couple of hours after sex.

 

If I stopped masturbating, I wouldn't want more sex - I'd just have more stress.

 

Tell me: What are you going to do when he "stops" using porn and you still only have sex 1-2 times a week?

 

You've got porn and masturbation firmly in your rifle sight... I think it's just an easy target for you when really - you're just incompatible.

 

Puzzling. Can any other men relate?

 

To be honest I've not known a man to think like that -- most of them seem to vastly prefer sex to masturbation and only masturbate when they can't have sex, in my experience.

 

I suppose that's why I don't have issues with porn.

 

God, I still can't get over that. You really only want sex 1-2 times a week???? :eek:

[JackJack]

Puzzling. Can any other men relate?

 

To be honest I've not known a man to think like that -- most of them seem to vastly prefer sex to masturbation and only masturbate when they can't have sex, in my experience.

 

I suppose that's why I don't have issues with porn.

 

God, I still can't get over that. You really only want sex 1-2 times a week???? :eek:

 

Possibly Enema can relate better to his own body rather than another persons. Or, maybe he just WANTS to relate better to his own than anothers.

[taylor]

Well, I post on Friday, come back Monday and my post is 6 pages gone. So, my apologies to people that asked me questions - not going to bother with it.

 

I will restate that I think that masturbating and sex drive are unrelated.

 

I only want sex 1-2 times a week - I really do not want it any more frequently.

I also masturbate a couple times a week. It's a low-energy, fast, stress-reliever and I sometimes even do it a couple of hours after sex.

 

If I stopped masturbating, I wouldn't want more sex - I'd just have more stress.

 

Tell me: What are you going to do when he "stops" using porn and you still only have sex 1-2 times a week?

 

You've got porn and masturbation firmly in your rifle sight... I think it's just an easy target for you when really - you're just incompatible.

 

So, where's Mr. Lucky when we need him? He's the one who said he would take steak any day over a picture of a steak.

 

Guess it's different strokes for different folks.

 

You know, Enema, I have no issue with anyone who wants to spend time masturbating..but why would a man want to masturbate when he could be making love to his wife/gf?

 

Single guys with no choice but to masturbate are shaking their heads right now.

 

One more thought..

 

Women have stress, too. But they don't choose to masturbate to relieve it when they have a husband standing outside the door hungry for some loving. If you were that man, would it not bother you that your wife was choosing to masturbate to relieve stress, rather than open that bedroom door and let you in?

 

FWIW, exercise is another great stress reliever.

[taylor]

thank you for understanding - this is how I feel. I had told him to let me take care of him instead and if I don't satisfy him, then resort to porn, but please save it for me!

Today we had our first calmer discussion about it, but alas it was because we had argued previously about other things - I really let my feelings out because I drank a bit too much that night.

Anyway, when he brought up how I was trying to be the thought police, I asked him to honestly answer me, if he came home and found me, masturbating to photos of men who were half his age, better looking, would it not hurt him at all? He answered that he would feel it was strange, and that I might need therapy to help me with my masturbating problem, but he would respect it was my problem. I then pointed out his answer and asked if men didn't then act strange and have a masturbation problem? I do think he saw some of the double standards. Anyway it was the very first time that he allowed me to discuss my thoughts about it without refusing to discuss it...

He did not wish to promise me that he would give it up for me, stating that he is not admitting to anything - thinking I was trying to get him to admit something. I told him I do not care about the past, just the present and the future. I asked him to please refrain and put that energy into our own sexl life instead. To try to understand that it most likely would be a deal breaker for me. We have stopped discussing it for now.

 

It's great you are starting to communicate Brulee. Communication is the key to understanding.

 

Funny story..your masturbation is a problem that needs therapy...his isn't.

 

Tell him you need to masturbate to relieve stress. Maybe he'll be able to relate to that...

 

Certainly, this whole issue has caused you a great deal of stress!