Why the constant comparison between EA's and PA's?

[angie2443]

They both hurt. They both do their damage. Why do so many try to prove that one is worse than the other? It seems dismissive of the pain that people go through when in these situations. Just my opinion.

[GorillaTheater]

I don't know that I've scene much in the way of argument that one is worse than the other, but maybe I haven't seen those particular threads.

 

For me, I think the 24/7 "movies" that would run through my head may make a PA more traumatic, but that's based on a bad relationship from a long time ago.

[TaraMaiden]

Oh goodness, my ignorance...

'EA'? 'PA'?

[bluechocolate]

emotional

 

physical

 

affair

[TaraMaiden]

Oh, I see, I understand now.

 

many thanks.

 

_/l\_

[angie2443]

I don't know that I've scene much in the way of argument that one is worse than the other, but maybe I haven't seen those particular threads.

 

For me, I think the 24/7 "movies" that would run through my head may make a PA more traumatic, but that's based on a bad relationship from a long time ago.

 

There's been some talk of it on the "intent" thread. I've seen this come up here from time to time. I used to not understand the concept of the EA. Now, having been through it, I do:(. Having learned what I have through this experience, I just wouldn't compare the two.

[angie2443]

Oh goodness, my ignorance...

'EA'? 'PA'?

 

Sorry, I should have wrote them out for the title.

[2sure]

I have not noticed much in the way of arguments as to which is "worse" here on LS. Affairs are as unique as individuals, and whats worse for one may not be worse for another. They all hurt, its all relative.

 

The only people who seem to really argue the point is the person who cheated (WS-wayward spouse). For example, they will insist their cheating wasnt really cheating since there was no sex, or penetration was involved. Or the spouse who has a physical affair but insisits it wasnt really cheating because it didnt mean anything.

[Snowflower]

Some people don't make the distinction about which type of A is more damaging. Betrayal is betrayal so why split hairs? I can understand this...

 

FWIW, as I struggled to 'understand' my H's infidelity, it was important to ME to make the distinction. I posted my own thread about the distinction in the context of my own situation.

 

I understand the rationale that infidelity is a betrayal no matter how it happens and I certainly agree 100%. But I, for one, make the distinction because when it came down to it, if my H had betrayed me in an EA--that would have been "worse" for me-an absolute deal-breaker. He betrayed our marriage physically-that was horrible enough as far as I was concerned but if he had betrayed our marriage and me with his heart-I would have never been able to "get over" that.

 

Other posters will vehemently disagree with this and I think it comes down to individual perspectives. I can certainly respect others' POV because a lot of what they say makes sense. I can only speak from my own feelings.

 

As a side note, I have noticed that most posters here-IF they make the distinction will do so based on gender. Men, as a rule, find it harder to recover from their wife's PA. Women often, but not always, find it more difficult to recover from their husband's EA. Of course, both types of affairs often happen together-one leads to another.

 

This topic has probably been hashed here to death but there is my 0.02.

[Snowflower]

I have not noticed much in the way of arguments as to which is "worse" here on LS. Affairs are as unique as individuals, and whats worse for one may not be worse for another. They all hurt, its all relative.

 

The only people who seem to really argue the point is the person who cheated (WS-wayward spouse). For example, they will insist their cheating wasnt really cheating since there was no sex, or penetration was involved. Or the spouse who has a physical affair but insisits it wasnt really cheating because it didnt mean anything.

 

Yeah, I have seen that here too. Oddly enough though, as a BS and speaking ONLY from my own situation, I make a clear distinction.

 

I just really think people are deluding themselves when either partner-the WS or the BS thinks it was "just an EA" and therefore not all that damaging to a relationship because there was no sex involved. IMO, an EA often opens door to a PA-but all the more damaging because emotions are then involved.

[2sure]

Snowflower -

 

Personally, I am with you.

But I have learned so much about myself, spouses, affairs, marriage and life since my H's infidelity...

 

I learned that unless I live it, I dont know how it feels.

[Owl]

And it works the other way too...some argue that it was "just a PA"...trying to claim that since there was no emotional attachment involved, it was "less" than if there had been.

 

And...people often forget to take into account that being intimate in one way (emotionally OR physically) quite often leads to intimacy the other way...whichever it is.

 

So an EA often leads to a PA...and a PA often leads to an EA.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I don't see a difference really. An EA is just a PA that hasn't happened yet.

[SidLyon]

I don't see a difference really. An EA is just a PA that hasn't happened yet.

 

So does this mean an EA has not yet developed into a sexual relationship; and/or that when someone says that their spouse has 'just' had an EA that they believe there was no sex? Does it become a PA (and no longer an EA) once it becomes sexual?

 

The way I see it PAs are most likely to be with sex workers (assuming sex with them can be thought of as affairs) or one night stands with relative strangers met at bars and conferences.

 

On the other hand a developing relationship with a co-worker, neighbour, fellow member of a club etc (you get my drift) is an EA but surely remains an EA once it becomes physical. I find it hard to imagine that this sort of affair could ever be described as just a PA.

 

Personally I don't make a distinction - my H had sex with sex workers and had a full blown 3.5 year affair with a co-worker. Plus he chatted and met with women from a dating website - but claimed none of these became sexual but not for want of trying. He was also trying to rekindle his affair and meeting with her even though it had ended more than 3 years earlier - I suppose he could have claimed it was just an EA at that stage.

 

I found out all of these (ie everything!) on the same day and I can say that drawing a distinction between PAs and EAs was virtually meaningless to me - they were all devastating to me.

 

S

[LucreziaBorgia]

The way I see it, an EA will become an EA+PA when the opportunity arises. A strictly PA doesn't always become an EA. I had plenty of PA's that never went past that. But... every EA I ever had eventually became a PA as well.

 

The only way an EA will stay an EA is if there is never an opportunity to meet in person. Something physical will happen otherwise - hugs, cuddles, kisses, caresses, etc. To me, any touching with intent regardless of whether genitals are involved, is a PA.

 

Now, way back when I would have said that PA's are less damaging, because not once did one of those interfere with what I already had (unless I got caught or confessed to end the relationship). The EA's though? Yeah, those dealt some damage.

 

Now? Six of one, half dozen of the other.

[taylor]

Maybe we should make the following distinction for clarity purposes:

 

EA - emotions involved but no physical contact

 

PA - physical contact but no emotions involved

 

EPA - emotional affair that turned physical

 

PEA - physical affair that turned emotional

 

Which is worse depends on the individuals who are dealing with them and what enrages their senses the most. It will vary from person to person. What one individual can tolerate, another can't. What bothers one, doesn't bother another as much. What is a dealbreaker for one, is not a dealbreaker for another.

 

In the end, they are all bad because they contradict and compromise a marriage.

 

The only reason I see to make a distinction between them is for recovery purposes. Couples need to determine why the affair took place in order to get to the root cause of the marital discord.

 

Why a ONS or a PA took place may be for a totally different reason than why an EA occurred or an EPA occurred...ie, what drives a WS into a certain type of affair can be telling.

[angie2443]

I have not noticed much in the way of arguments as to which is "worse" here on LS. Affairs are as unique as individuals, and whats worse for one may not be worse for another. They all hurt, its all relative.

 

The only people who seem to really argue the point is the person who cheated (WS-wayward spouse). For example, they will insist their cheating wasnt really cheating since there was no sex, or penetration was involved. Or the spouse who has a physical affair but insisits it wasnt really cheating because it didnt mean anything.

 

My husband is one of these people. He feels that there was nothing wrong with his past friendship (the one I consider an EA) because there was no sex involved. He still doesn't understand why I wasn't "over" the situation when he ended the friendship. Since he doesn't consider it an affair of any type, he thinks I shouldn't have felt any pain over it at all.

[Lizzie60]

I personally think that an EA is worst because, 99.9% of the time, it leads to a PA, therefore a FBA. (full blown A) and it consumes the OP... they think about that person all the time... the emotional connection can be very strong.

 

A PA is, by definition, only a PA... but it also can lead to an EA therefore a FBA, but often, it's only about sex..

 

Women are often more involved in EA.. while men are mostly in PA.

 

IMO both leads to the same strong emotional connection in the long run... (most of the time).

 

But for the majority of people a PA is worst..

[Snowflower]

 

Why a ONS or a PA took place may be for a totally different reason than why an EA occurred or an EPA occurred...ie, what drives a WS into a certain type of affair can be telling.

 

 

This is why I also now make the distinction between the two. After D-day in my situation, it was all just about my H's betrayal. I didn't even make the distinction. I couldn't. It just hurt too much. And, until I began to sort things out in my mind and heart I didn't make the distinction.

 

But, one of my first questions after my H confessed was, "Do you love this person." He very clearly said that he did not. Looking back now, that response was/is very indicative of his feelings about the OW and the A because whatever affair "fog" he was in at that time would have still been front and center.

 

As time went on that distinction became more and more important to me. I had to understand and process exactly what the betrayal meant and what exactly happened-so yes, I made the distinction and continue to do so.

[taylor]

This is why I also now make the distinction between the two. After D-day in my situation, it was all just about my H's betrayal. I didn't even make the distinction. I couldn't. It just hurt too much. And, until I began to sort things out in my mind and heart I didn't make the distinction.

 

But, one of my first questions after my H confessed was, "Do you love this person." He very clearly said that he did not. Looking back now, that response was/is very indicative of his feelings about the OW and the A because whatever affair "fog" he was in at that time would have still been front and center.

 

As time went on that distinction became more and more important to me. I had to understand and process exactly what the betrayal meant and what exactly happened-so yes, I made the distinction and continue to do so.

 

Beautifully said, Snowflower, and a perfect example of why it is important for both husband and wife to understand what the affair was and what it wasn't.

 

It serves no purpose to discuss which kind of affair is WORSE. The worst affair is the one you are being forced to deal with. Period.

[taylor]

Women are often more involved in EA.. while men are mostly in PA.

 

If women are mostly involved in EA's, who are they in EA's with...if most men only want sex?

 

And if men are mostly involved in PA's, who are they in PA's with..if women only want the emotional involvement?

 

 

IMO both leads to the same strong emotional connection in the long run... (most of the time).

 

I agree. I think there is an element of emotional and physical attraction and involvement in all affairs...except the ONS with a stranger..that would be pure sexual attraction for both parties.

[Snowflower]

If women are mostly involved in EA's, who are they in EA's with...if most men only want sex?

 

And if men are mostly involved in PA's, who are they in PA's with..if women only want the emotional involvement?

 

 

And I think this is where most of the problem lies with affairs or even many relationships that are not affairs: different expectations where hurt and disappointment will follow.

 

My guess is that oftentimes a woman in an EA is involved with the OM who wants sex at some point. Whether or not the woman goes forward with a PA after becoming emotionally involved (the EA) she will often get hurt because the OM has different expectations (sex).

 

As for men that are involved in PA's...who are they in PA's with? Oftentimes the same women who are looking for an emotional connection and therefore are in an EA.

 

Of course, I know men can and do become emotionally involved with their AP. I'm trying not to make a generalization--just observing what seems to happen based on what I have seen IRL and here on forums like LS.

[taylor]

My guess is that oftentimes a woman in an EA is involved with the OM who wants sex at some point. Whether or not the woman goes forward with a PA after becoming emotionally involved (the EA) she will often get hurt because the OM has different expectations (sex).

 

But while the woman is busy, busy, busy getting emotionally involved, what is the man doing during this time? And who is the woman getting emotionally involved with...someone emotionally detached? She may very well be in an EA, but until he has sex with her, what is he in?

 

As for men that are involved in PA's...who are they in PA's with? Oftentimes the same women who are looking for an emotional connection and therefore are in an EA.

 

But a man can't be involved in a physical sexual relationship unless the woman is, too. He can't have sex unless she does, too. And once she has sex, she is in a PA, too,..not an EA. If a man is in a PA, a woman is in a PA, too. They both have to cross that line. And I know, from having an EA, that sexual desire is a two-way street, whether they cross it or not.

 

Not trying to be argumentative here. Just trying to dig a little deeper.

[emotionbankrupt]

I agree with the poster about the 24/7 PA movies in my head, I get those as well. Someone on this board recommended St. Johns Wort for which I am greatfull, It seems to have helped stem the flow of the horrible movies in my head. The EA aspect was just as hurtful to me as the PA, but then it was a package deal by the time I found out. Its all pretty sick and disgusting.

I think they are both equally as disturbing... and wonder what percentage of EA's turn into PA's? Anyone have a statistic on this?

[taylor]

I agree with the poster about the 24/7 PA movies in my head, I get those as well. Someone on this board recommended St. Johns Wort for which I am greatfull, It seems to have helped stem the flow of the horrible movies in my head. The EA aspect was just as hurtful to me as the PA, but then it was a package deal by the time I found out. Its all pretty sick and disgusting.

I think they are both equally as disturbing... and wonder what percentage of EA's turn into PA's? Anyone have a statistic on this?

 

EA's are just PA wanna-be's. There like the beginning of the 24/7 movie whereas the climax of the movie is the PA. Men choose to focus on and rerun the climax of the movie over and over again in their head 24/7 but, in reality, the WHOLE "movie" is bad, beginning, middle and end.