Should American men stop dating American women?

[clv0116]

I prefer both actually, not one or the other.

 

Well of course, but that wasn't an option in the question posed.

 

 

In my experience, the types of guys who have a little surprise up their sleeves for a special occasion like Vsday or a Bday are also the types of guys who will bring you flowers "just because".

 

Not me. I carefully avoid calendar mandated gift giving and strongly discourage others from getting me anything on those dates as well. I do however have the habit of frequent and random gift giving. I like the way her face lights up. I guess that makes it selfish but whatever.

 

 

I come from a family where special occasions are celebrated, we make a "fuss" over people. We were taught to "celebrate" those we care about. My parents are the types to have Easter dinner for all the family and bring over treats and food for the neighbors/friends, that is just how I grew up. I was taught to give and to share with those you love. Life is too short not to nurture those relationships that mean something to you.

 

I come from a family where we don't need a special occasion sanctioned by Hallmark to fuss over each other and nurture our relationships. That is just how *I* grew up.

[Jaytb]

I'd be happy if men treated women as if they really care for them. Where more interested in what they could give and offer then take and use. Wanted to develop relationships with women for the long haul. No matter the woman's age, bustline, or level of sensualness.

 

Then you should be happy that I'm like that. Although I am sure that I am too much of a nice guy for most women. But I do have a girlfriend so I'm doing just fine.

And didn't act like man-boys well into their 30s thinking . My poppop had to grow up in a serious world. He went to war. The men of the following generations never experienced hardships like he did.

I do believe Woggle is correct in that these serious men end up with no dates while the typical cocky jerk ends up with all the women. Not my experience just something I've seen plenty of.

Today, alot of men are more boy then man.

Literally speaking, you are correct. Men are first boys then they're men.

Then: used in "If... then" constructions or to indicate time order.

Than: used in comparisons, like "more than", "less than", etc.

 

And not men as defined by fluff magazines like Maxim. That's only a caricature of a man. And sadly, men seem to be happy trying to meet the caricture of what they are told to be.

Actually we're a lot less susceptible to how society tells us to act than women. A lot more men are independent minded and we're even more conservative and focused on traditional values. I'm liberal myself (and believe it or not I'm an atheist with traditional values, Christian values you might say) but I don't care how society says I should act and I don't care too much what others think. Women seem a lot more susceptible to both.

 

And I have no idea what your post has to do with the topic at hand.

[clv0116]

I'd be happy if men treated women as if they really care for them. Where more interested in what they could give and offer then take and use.

 

A lot of men are somewhat like this, just not the ones you date apparently. To be fair, a man should be interested in both what he gets and what he can give to ensure the pairing is complementary.

 

I'm assuming you don't really mean a man should be interested in what he can give a woman and then take back later, but rather you mean a man should be interested in what he can give without excessive regard to what he can get from her.

 

 

 

.... Wanted to develop relationships with women for the long haul. No matter the woman's age, bustline, or level of sensualness.

 

Well no, why would we want to do that?

[Jersey Shortie]

How is that? Even our psych choked on that when I floated the premise in MC. This is a time of total equality, or so it seems. OK woman, climb on the tractor an mow the back 40 and then blow it down and grease it when you're done

 

I hate to break it to you but I grew up around plenty of women that DID climb on the tractor. Or my mother that use to mow their 8 acre property (some of it woods and field but alot of it grass) with a push mower. And growing up, I did ALOT of similar tasks.

 

 

Seriously, though, I actually walked my wife through a plumbing job yesterday, correcting a mess at her house which had been installed by a "professional". Showed her every step, and even some tricks I've learned in my 30+ years doing it. First time in our 9 year M that she ever spent more than 5 minutes paying attention to anything that I do. The day prior, I suggested a divorce mediator might be a cost-effective idea. Maybe that was why....hmmm

 

There is always two sides to every story . But I am sorry to hear you are getting a divorce.

 

JS, my dad was your poppop. His first wife left him while he was in Italy in WW2. He was a great role model. I know exactly what you mean. Keep trying.

 

Well, they don't make men like my Poppop anymore. He really takes good care of my mommom. She refuses to get eye glasses so he reads everything to her. And little stuff like that.

 

 

I do believe Woggle is correct in that these serious men end up with no dates while the typical cocky jerk ends up with all the women. Not my experience just something I've seen plenty of.

 

Really Jay, this is the type of man-boy whining I am talking about. How many men do you think go for the bad hot girls? Enough that you whining about nice guys being passed up doesn't exactly play violins for me. It's not a matter of women picking the cocky jerk. Most women really don't. That's something "nice guys" tell themselves to feel better about themselves. Too many self proclaimed nice guys are either too nice and broader on doormat, or aren't really that nice at all and hide behind "politness" which has nothing to do with truly being geninue and nice. Something I have seen pleny of myself. I am a firm believer that a real nice guy doesn't go around calling himself "nice" or saying he is nice and blaming that on the reason that no woman wants him. He needs to look at himself.

 

Literally speaking, you are correct. Men are first boys then they're men.

Then: used in "If... then" constructions or to indicate time order.

Than: used in comparisons, like "more than", "less than", etc.

 

When I want a grammer lesson, I will ask for one. Until then, stick to discussing the topic.

 

 

Actually we're a lot less susceptible to how society tells us to act than women. A lot more men are independent minded and we're even more conservative and focused on traditional values. I'm liberal myself (and believe it or not I'm an atheist with traditional values, Christian values you might say) but I don't care how society says I should act and I don't care too much what others think. Women seem a lot more susceptible to both.

 

I think you are very naive to the ways men are susceptible to buying into what society tells them to. AAnd it sounds high handed to believe that women are more susceptible then men when I see it rampet in both sexes. I am sorry but men today our a reflection of the media's they buy into.

[carhill]

There is always two sides to every story . But I am sorry to hear you are getting a divorce.

 

Yes, her side is she put up with the chaos and crap that went on while I was caring for my mother and that I owe her. If there is a next woman, she won't have to deal with that. Mom will be dead.

 

BTW, I actually do live in the country and do operate farm machinery and work on them. Been here for about 21 years. Never have seen a woman on a tractor. Mostly Mexican field labor and males driving the farm machinery. My mom drove a tractor, killed hogs and milked cows. Our generation of women is largely bereft of that understanding or history. That's just a reality, not an indictment.

[samspade]

Too many self proclaimed nice guys are either too nice and broader on doormat, or aren't really that nice at all and hide behind "politness" which has nothing to do with truly being geninue and nice. Something I have seen pleny of myself. I am a firm believer that a real nice guy doesn't go around calling himself "nice" or saying he is nice and blaming that on the reason that no woman wants him. He needs to look at himself.

 

Agree 100% with this.

[stillafool]

Should American men stop dating American women?

 

Most definitely if they view foreign women more to their liking. To each his own and WHO CARES IF THEY DO??????

[Untouchable_Fire]

Yes, her side is she put up with the chaos and crap that went on while I was caring for my mother and that I owe her. If there is a next woman, she won't have to deal with that. Mom will be dead.

BTW, I actually do live in the country and do operate farm machinery and work on them. Been here for about 21 years. Never have seen a woman on a tractor. Mostly Mexican field labor and males driving the farm machinery. My mom drove a tractor, killed hogs and milked cows. Our generation of women is largely bereft of that understanding or history. That's just a reality, not an indictment.

 

I've often wondered how millions of American men can all have a very similar shared experience interacting with women... and be denounced as wrong when we explain our findings.

 

My marriage withered and died because my wife's libido required me to make at least 6 figures... at the age of 23... that just was not realistic. I tried everything to be the best husband ever. I worked my ass off to be as perfect as I could be and nothing changed. 6 years later... I have that job she wanted me to have, but there is no way I would ever go back to her.

 

I can't see any reason to treat a woman the way my grandfather did. Bottom line... If women are not willing to treat a man in a traditional manner... How on earth can they expect me to act as a traditional man would?

[donnamaybe]

Define "traditional," because that term changes rapidly with each passing day.

 

I say treat people as you would like to be treated. If a woman wants to treat a man like a money tree, then she should be prepared to be treated like a money grubbing gold digger.

[carhill]

Well, I suffered the ignominy of traditional household. Father provided; mother managed and served. Both parented. As a result of that parentage, I can and do manage both roles and did in our marriage. I provided and served and cared. No matter the need, carhill was there.

 

The key is in compatible partner choice. Committing to someone who values and is inspired by that evolution of traditional roles is necessary for a balanced and healthy relationship. Does that exist amongst American women? Probably, but I have not met such a single woman in my lifetime. Hope springs eternal. Maybe in some future life

[clv0116]

To each his own and WHO CARES IF THEY DO??????

 

IMBRA tells me a lot of American women and their pet manginas don't like it much overall.

[Sam Spade]

One day, some day, I will have something nice to say . If I ever come out of the asian spell, that is.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Define "traditional," because that term changes rapidly with each passing day.

I say treat people as you would like to be treated. If a woman wants to treat a man like a money tree, then she should be prepared to be treated like a money grubbing gold digger.

 

That is my exact philosophy! I treat people according to who they are. Women who are super nice to me get treated super nice in return. If she expects me to pay 100% for dates... she be dead broke.

 

Your right that traditional means different things to different people.

[clv0116]

One day, some day, I will have something nice to say . If I ever come out of the asian spell, that is.

 

Between the Asian honeys, the Eastern Euro babes and the Latinas I'm not placing any big money on ever dating local product, but yeah you never know.

[paddington bear]

Not enough time to read the whole thread - just the first 10 pages or so...

 

I live in Europe, the American style dating with 'are we exclusive now?' with rules and regulations seems odd to me, however, on the other hand it also seems like kind of a good deal,everyone knows where they stand..then again, maybe they don't, from some of the posts mentioned here.

 

As I said didn't read the whole thread, but just wanted to chip in with that from what I've seen it's not only the women who act differently regarding dating, sex etc in Europe, it's the guys too. The women (in Germany at least) don't expect the guys to pay for the dates, so therefore the guys don't take a woman out, treat her as something special, therefore when the OP comes along and actually asks someone out on a date and wants to pay for it, I would say it's refreshing to the woman, just as the women he met were refreshing to him.

 

I was talking to an American guy recently who mentioned that he was in heaven in Germany. Not because the girls were more open sexually etc, but because the German guys didn't make much of an effort, and therefore he cleaned up. His American-style actually asking someone out on a date, worked wonders.

 

Again, I'm generalising here, I've only been to the States briefly a couple of times, but from numerous tv imports etc, there does seem to be a focus from American women when dating on the status of the man in terms of income, a job that she can boast about and so on. Let's face it, no one really wants some loser guy who sits on the couch all day smoking dope with no ambition at all, however, the good job, good income thing seems a bit out of touch when so many couples both have to work these days. If you want to be a stay at home mom eventually then I guess that's something to take into consideration, but then the guy has to be on the same page with wanting that too, to be the sole provider.

 

Someone previously on this post said something like 'if you want to date sluts go on ahead' - that's exactly the attitude that I think the OP was trying to make some kind of comment about. It's not the Europeans are sluts, it's that they are not as bound by the very conservative views towards sex that seems to still prevail in America.

 

On the other side of the coin, I was amazed when I went to the States, I got asked out by so many guys within the space of a week. It made me feel so attractive and good about myself, whereas European guys just don't do that, and you can go for months without any kind of interest shown from random members of the opposite sex.

[You'reasian]

That is my exact philosophy! I treat people according to who they are. Women who are super nice to me get treated super nice in return.

 

Not a bad practice, but its not about how nice you are to them - its about chemistry, plain and simple.

 

Everything else falls under chemistry. Without it, doesn't matter how nice or not you are.

 

Regardless of how much chemistry you may or may not have, use your niceness sparingly - not every woman deserves it or has earned it.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

Sometimes I think that there is a divide in the US- between city chicks and subruban chicks. City girls are interested in men who are smart, capable, interesting, and funny is a plus too. Does he like to do interesting things? Is he interested in the current art show at the Corcoran? Does he have an opinion on the big stories in the Post today? Can he talk about diversified subjects? Does he like to travel? A lot of us don't have cars (don't need them) so we could care less about the kind of car a guy drives. If he has one, even if it's a 1988 Toyota civic, cool. He can take us to Target out in the suburbs But really, we don't care.

 

The people I know who live in the "nice" suburbs seem much more interested in where you live, what you do, where did you go to school, and what kind of car do you drive. I know there are real women who live in the burbs, too, so don't hate on me for saying this. It just seems to me that there is a difference in SOME people, city vs. suburb.

[Jaytb]

Really Jay, this is the type of man-boy whining I am talking about. How many men do you think go for the bad hot girls? Enough that you whining about nice guys being passed up doesn't exactly play violins for me. It's not a matter of women picking the cocky jerk. Most women really don't. That's something "nice guys" tell themselves to feel better about themselves. Too many self proclaimed nice guys are either too nice and broader on doormat, or aren't really that nice at all and hide behind "politness" which has nothing to do with truly being geninue and nice. Something I have seen pleny of myself. I am a firm believer that a real nice guy doesn't go around calling himself "nice" or saying he is nice and blaming that on the reason that no woman wants him. He needs to look at himself.

Yes your experience is the only one and the opposite never happens.

 

 

When I want a grammer lesson, I will ask for one. Until then, stick to discussing the topic.

I was a little amused at that little quibble. And now it feels weird referring to something from exactly 3 weeks ago lol.

 

I think you are very naive to the ways men are susceptible to buying into what society tells them to. AAnd it sounds high handed to believe that women are more susceptible then men when I see it rampet in both sexes. I am sorry but men today our a reflection of the media's they buy into.

Everyone is susceptible but women are more susceptible in my opinion (movies, TV, etc. I mean just look at how many compare their lives to Sex and the City lol)

[boogieboy]

::Sigh:: dating foreigners are nice, but I cant stand accents. I just fall back to the good old relatable american women.

[Sam Spade]

Sometimes I think that there is a divide in the US- between city chicks and subruban chicks. City girls are interested in men who are smart, capable, interesting, and funny is a plus too. Does he like to do interesting things? Is he interested in the current art show at the Corcoran? Does he have an opinion on the big stories in the Post today? Can he talk about diversified subjects? Does he like to travel? A lot of us don't have cars (don't need them) so we could care less about the kind of car a guy drives. If he has one, even if it's a 1988 Toyota civic, cool. He can take us to Target out in the suburbs But really, we don't care.

 

The people I know who live in the "nice" suburbs seem much more interested in where you live, what you do, where did you go to school, and what kind of car do you drive. I know there are real women who live in the burbs, too, so don't hate on me for saying this. It just seems to me that there is a difference in SOME people, city vs. suburb.

 

I knew it - suburbs are soul-crushing enclaves, populated by zombies, and I'm not even kidding .

THe so called city chicks (and yuppy dudes) are nothing to brag about too - short attention span, and thus also not tempting relationship material. It is just hard to find an authentic person that does not define themselves (or others) based on what they do and where they went for vacation .

[Cherry Blossom 35]

I knew it - suburbs are soul-crushing enclaves, populated by zombies, and I'm not even kidding .

THe so called city chicks (and yuppy dudes) are nothing to brag about too - short attention span, and thus also not tempting relationship material. It is just hard to find an authentic person that does not define themselves (or others) based on what they do and where they went for vacation .

 

 

True, just calling it like I see it

 

But why is it that my friends are all women who are authentic people, with an adequate attention span, who are not materialistic, do not define themselves by their jobs, are interesting, laid back, are good looking (very good looking in some cases) and yet they cannot find decent men???

 

Ahh...such is life...

[Cherry Blossom 35]

I knew it - suburbs are soul-crushing enclaves, populated by zombies, and I'm not even kidding .

 

This is true, sorry...

[Cherry Blossom 35]

I It is just hard to find an authentic person that does not define themselves (or others) based on what they do and where they went for vacation .

 

 

The thing is, I don't think it is that hard. You just have to open your mind. the hottest guy/gal will probably be looking for money, hotness, job, status. whatever. But if you look beyond all that, you may find the one who loves you for you

[Isolde]

I moved from a very big city to a more midsize city and the difference in dating styles is tremendous. I don't even live in the suburbs! I truly believe that there is an equal trade off in both cases. Bigger city = more people to meet and easier to meet them, people are more adventurous and openminded, BUT people are flighty and can be pretentious. Smaller city = fewer singles, culture of marrying young, people less adventurous and more in the box thinking, BUT are more stable, reliable, polite to strangers, and less pretentious.

 

CB, to be fair, I think there is a tremendous difference in culture depending on what suburb you're talking about. They vary in style, depending on what city they center upon, whether they're closer to being rural or urban, how educated the locals are... the list goes on and on. Some suburbs are incredibly vibrant, while others are little more than a collection of rusty strip malls.

[Isolde]

The thing is, I don't think it is that hard. You just have to open your mind. the hottest guy/gal will probably be looking for money, hotness, job, status. whatever. But if you look beyond all that, you may find the one who loves you for you

 

There are lots of people who aren't exactly hot who are still extremely shallow about what they want in a mate and rather close minded about whom they date. Or sometimes it's just a chemistry problem.

 

I remember a guy I went on a couple of dates with who was short and not my usual type at all. I liked him more the more we talked, but he ended up rejecting me outright!

 

While I agree that being more openminded about looks is helpful, it's far from a solution!

 

Other than that, I agree with what you're saying to Sam Spade. There are tons of American women that are looking for the real deal