If you or MM died, would you be able to attend funeral?

[2sure]

Wow - I just remembered something from my previous life that kind of applies here.

 

Was dating a somewhat older MM. We would do some traveling together and he was paying my rent. I didn't see him that often , he would call me once a week to catch up. One time a 3 weeks went by and I had not heard from him. When he finally called he was in the hospital rehab unit - massive heart attack.

 

My first thought? Thank G it wasn't in my bed.

Second thought? The Rent.

[wildsoul]

Wow - I just remembered something from my previous life that kind of applies here.

 

Was dating a somewhat older MM. We would do some traveling together and he was paying my rent. I didn't see him that often , he would call me once a week to catch up. One time a 3 weeks went by and I had not heard from him. When he finally called he was in the hospital rehab unit - massive heart attack.

 

My first thought? Thank G it wasn't in my bed.

Second thought? The Rent.

(((2sure))) :lmao:

[Owl]

Taylor perhaps I'm reading it differently to you, but I took Owl's point about the public display as being some kind of open affirmation, something which calls it back into being, as opposed to something nebulous and transient.

 

It may, as you posit, bring closure - or it may, as I read Owl's take, bring rupture. I'm not sure if that's just a WS / BS difference, or if that's more finely nuanced on the particulars of the situation - given that Owl's W didn't actually get to physically meet her OM and this would in a sense be that final "consummation".

 

Owl - not meaning to put words in your mouth; you will, I'm sure, correct my reading if it's wrong.

 

Not at all, Owoman, I think you hit it bang on the head.

 

What Taylor pictures as closure, as a final marker to the death of her affair and a final goodbye to her affair partner, I view as a rupture to the healing of her marriage, and of her husband's efforts to rebuild it.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with my wife's not being physically "with" OM in any fashion...I truly think I'd feel the same way regardless if it had been PA vs EA.

 

Choosing to attend ANYTHING that has to do with the person she cheated on me with (regardless of mental vs emotional) still is CONTRARY to her intent to rebuild and maintain our marriage.

 

Its a disruption of OUR healing.

 

It's a public acknowledgement of someone with whom she was secretly and illicitly "with". Attending his funeral, his viewing...heck...attending his public execution...would be acknowledging a bond that was in no way "respectful". A bond that was directly in conflict with her bond with me.

 

I wouldn't be comfortable with that.

 

OM is right where he needs to be as far as I'm concerned...no longer a part of my/our life. And he needs to remain that way forever...regardless of what changes happen around or to him. Including death.

 

So your assessment of my view on this is pretty good from what I read, Owoman. It doesn't have anything to do with any physical aspects...but it would be a rupture to our healing and our marriage.

[Owl]

Actually, it may not be the grieving widow or widower you’d have to worry about.

 

Some families are as thick as thieves regardless of the mistakes made by it’s more dysfunctional members. It might actually BE the children and extended family members who see to it that you’re either cold-shoulder or physically escorted out. Unless the affair partner was doubly duplicitous and managed to somehow pose as just a work colleague or concerned friend to the family of the deceased.

 

This would be a very likely occurence if something like this happened at my wife's funeral.

 

Odds are high that I wouldn't see OM if he showed up and was recognized by my sons or my brothers. The BEST he could hope for in that case would be a polite invitation to leave.

 

More likely he'd be escorted out the back alley and left unconscious and nekkid. And that's if they were feeling charitable.

 

And before anyone asks...yes...my family WOULD do something exactly like that...I have no doubt. ESPECIALLY my brothers.

[MeaganRaye]

This would be a very likely occurence if something like this happened at my wife's funeral.

 

Odds are high that I wouldn't see OM if he showed up and was recognized by my sons or my brothers. The BEST he could hope for in that case would be a polite invitation to leave.

 

More likely he'd be escorted out the back alley and left unconscious and nekkid. And that's if they were feeling charitable.

 

And before anyone asks...yes...my family WOULD do something exactly like that...I have no doubt. ESPECIALLY my brothers.

Are you sure you are completely over the A? you seem to still hold a lot of hostility towards the OM.

 

What if you spotted him at the grocery market, would you pick a fight with him?

[herenow]

Are you sure you are completely over the A? you seem to still hold a lot of hostility towards the OM.

 

What if you spotted him at the grocery market, would you pick a fight with him?

 

IMO, Owl is not only over the A, he has moved on to build something much stronger. Does that mean he has to forget abut the A? If we forget about the things in life that cause us pain, we can't really grow and learn from those experiences. So many people accuse a BS of "not being over it" just because the experience is still parts of their lives. When our experiences start to fade, it's not good. Some people call it Alzheimer's, a very sad state of being.

[Owl]

Are you sure you are completely over the A? you seem to still hold a lot of hostility towards the OM.

 

What if you spotted him at the grocery market, would you pick a fight with him?

 

As long as he wasn't shopping for my wife's melons...not at all.

 

:)

 

I have no issue with him as long as he stays out of my life...and by extension, my wife's life.

 

If he were to deliberately try to inject himself back into her life or mine...that's another issue entirely.

 

The concept of him showing up at her funeral is exactly that...and there's no way in heck he'd be invited to it...for the same reasons.

 

See the difference here?

[Lizzie60]

Are you sure you are completely over the A? you seem to still hold a lot of hostility towards the OM.

 

What if you spotted him at the grocery market, would you pick a fight with him?

 

 

No.. Owl is not over the A.. if he was.. he wouldn't be constantly talking about it on a forum like this...

 

Most BS on here are still very angry and bitter..

[MeaganRaye]

IMO, Owl is not only over the A, he has moved on to build something much stronger. Does that mean he has to forget abut the A? If we forget about the things in life that cause us pain, we can't really grow and learn from those experiences. So many people accuse a BS of "not being over it" just because the experience is still parts of their lives. When our experiences start to fade, it's not good. Some people call it Alzheimer's, a very sad state of being.

 

From his posts, it's obvious that he still has a lot of hostility, and anger directed at the OM, and it's scary IMO. The way he talks about him and his family members beating him up doesn't sound healthy or productive to me. I'm not sure how long the affair happened, but if its years ago, really he needs to stop feeling that way about the OM too. I bet if he spotted him somewhere like at a grocery market or gas station he'd probably go into a rage and bash the guy's head in

[MeaganRaye]

No.. Owl is not over the A.. if he was.. he wouldn't be constantly talking about it on a forum like this...

 

Most BS on here are still very angry and bitter..

 

lol I agree w/ you:D

[Owl]

Hmmm...let's extend this out a bit, shall we?

 

Say that someone broke into your house, and stole your TV set. They were caught, and you got the TV set back.

 

Could you forgive them? Sure.

 

Would you ever want them back in your house? I DOUBT IT.

 

But as long as they never came near your house...would you go out of your way to do anything further to them? Probably not.

 

But what would you do if you caught them hanging out in your neighborhood again?

[MeaganRaye]

Hmmm...let's extend this out a bit, shall we?

 

Say that someone broke into your house, and stole your TV set. They were caught, and you got the TV set back.

 

Could you forgive them? Sure.

 

Would you ever want them back in your house? I DOUBT IT.

 

But as long as they never came near your house...would you go out of your way to do anything further to them? Probably not.

 

Owl, the man didn't steal your wife. She willingly slept with him, it was a mutual decision that the both acted on. You talk about your wife as if she's a child and was not old enough to think for herself.

As long as he wasn't shopping for my wife's melons...not at all.

 

:)

 

I have no issue with him as long as he stays out of my life...and by extension, my wife's life.

 

If he were to deliberately try to inject himself back into her life or mine...that's another issue entirely.

 

The concept of him showing up at her funeral is exactly that...and there's no way in heck he'd be invited to it...for the same reasons.

 

See the difference here?

 

Owl, I hope this is true. But something tells me you'll start having flashbacks and probably snap on him..there's a lot of passion and anger the way you envision him getting broken in half by you and your family members if he showed up to your wife's funeral

[Lizzie60]

Yabutt.. you're still very hostile towards As and cheating.. etc.. therefore still angry and bitter for your W's A.. and I'm sure you still think that she could do it again.

[MeaganRaye]

Owl you talk about your wife as if she is a piece of property and not a person with her own freewill

[herenow]

No.. Owl is not over the A.. if he was.. he wouldn't be constantly talking about it on a forum like this...

 

Most BS on here are still very angry and bitter..

 

Or, maybe it's just a bit slow at work so we take some time to post here about our experiences hoping that someone will gain some insight from us (BW or OW).

[Owl]

Meagan...he's totally safe as long as he doesn't try to interfere in my life or my wife's life again. Given that he lives on the other side of the country, and that my wife took active measures to ensure that NC is firmly in place...I'm not worried about that happening.

 

As far as "my wife being a child"...here's the thing...she is fully culpable in her part of things...make no mistake. She's made every effort to change things to improve our marriage (which IS far improved, btw), and things are great between us.

 

But...that took a huge act of forgiveness on my part towards her. I owed her that, if I were going to give her a chance to rebuild our marriage.

 

I don't owe OM that. I don't owe OM anything. I've made a lot of effort to see things from his perspective...and can see that he was hurt by all of this too. So as long as he stays clear...I've got nothing against him. If he intentionally comes into my life again...all bets are off.

[Owl]

Owl you talk about your wife as if she is a piece of property and not a person with her own freewill

 

It's too bad my wife chooses not to post here sometimes...because it would be HILARIOUS to see how she'd respond to that.

 

All I can say is that there's no way I can prove to you just how completely off the mark that this supposition is.

 

All I can say is that she is in no way treated like that in our marriage, nor would she ever consider tolerating such.

 

She's HARDLY a child, and HARDLY a weak woman afraid to take care of herself. That's one of the things that I love about her...she's as much partner as anything else.

[MeaganRaye]

Meagan...he's totally safe as long as he doesn't try to interfere in my life or my wife's life again. Given that he lives on the other side of the country, and that my wife took active measures to ensure that NC is firmly in place...I'm not worried about that happening.

 

As far as "my wife being a child"...here's the thing...she is fully culpable in her part of things...make no mistake. She's made every effort to change things to improve our marriage (which IS far improved, btw), and things are great between us.

 

But...that took a huge act of forgiveness on my part towards her. I owed her that, if I were going to give her a chance to rebuild our marriage.

 

I don't owe OM that. I don't owe OM anything. I've made a lot of effort to see things from his perspective...and can see that he was hurt by all of this too. So as long as he stays clear...I've got nothing against him. If he intentionally comes into my life again...all bets are off.

It's good that you worked on your marriage so that you can fully trust her and hopefully this will never happen again.

[Owl]

Yabutt.. you're still very hostile towards As and cheating.. etc.. therefore still angry and bitter for your W's A.. and I'm sure you still think that she could do it again.

 

Here's the thing Lizzie...I've ALWAYS felt this way about cheating.

 

My wife was absolutely under the belief that she'd be tossed out on her butt once I knew about the affair. She was also very worried for OM's safety in that same circumstance, because she knew full well what I thought of cheating...well prior to the affair.

 

The only difference is that "post-affair", I'm still on a forum discussing my viewpoint.

 

It's absolutely no different than it was "pre-affair"...just a lot more informed, educated, and experienced on the subject.

[bentnotbroken]

From his posts, it's obvious that he still has a lot of hostility, and anger directed at the OM, and it's scary IMO. The way he talks about him and his family members beating him up doesn't sound healthy or productive to me. I'm not sure how long the affair happened, but if its years ago, really he needs to stop feeling that way about the OM too. I bet if he spotted him somewhere like at a grocery market or gas station he'd probably go into a rage and bash the guy's head in

 

 

It is funny how if you(as BS) show no respect or affection for AP then you are bitter. If you take your spouse back and build a new relationship with your spouse you are settling. If you dump them you didn't love them enough. A BS will never live up to the expectations of AP. Because we didn't cheat, we must not be human with human emotions and feelings.

[taylor]

What Taylor pictures as closure, as a final marker to the death of her affair and a final goodbye to her affair partner, I view as a rupture to the healing of her marriage, and of her husband's efforts to rebuild it.

 

I guess I see it as both, OWL. Receiving news, any news regarding an affair partner, can be considered a break in NO CONTACT in that the news can be a way of keeping the affair partner in your life...knowing what he is up to, what he's doing, what's happening to him...all are ways of keeping an affair partner in your life. And that's why reading facebook and myspace and discussing the OP with mutual friends is prohibitive if the goal is NC.

 

Receiving news of the OP's death would be the same thing..a break in NO CONTACT in a very alarming way. It's bound to put the affair and affair partner front and center at least momentarily, if not for awhile, emotionally.

 

Even John Who said while he would not attend his OW's funeral, he would FEEL SAD and if she wasn't married, he might ACT by sending flowers.

 

A connection is a connection, OWL, whether it is one-day post D-day or 40 years post D-day. As a BS, you will never forget the affair and thoughts of the OM will probably always elicit some kind of emotion. Same with the wayward spouse...the OW or OM will probably always elicit some type of emotional response because just like you, the wayward spouse will never be able to completely forget the affair.

 

So, I do see where even receiving news of an affair partner's death would be a rupture because for a tiny moment, at least, that news is going to provoke emotional responses in both the BS and the WS.

 

Where we differ, and I am sure it's because of us being on opposite sides of the affair fence, is that the WS could see the death as a final closure. That is how I would view it. But I can see how you wouldn't view it that way..because you aren't the one who had the relationship with the OP. You aren't the one who had to work hard to close your heart to someone who you let in who should never have gotten there in the first place.

 

Once the OP is dead...gone from this world...any conflict or discussion or threat...is just a moot point.

 

Going to a graveside to pay last respects may be considered a public acknowledgement in your eyes. But, whether someone goes or doesn't go, if the desire to go and the feelings are still there, what difference does it make.

 

What difference would it make if your wife said, "I want to go. I am going" and "I want to go, but I won't"? Wouldn't it bother you..just the fact that she wanted to go? Wouldn't THAT be the thing that would rupture the marital healing most...the FACT that there were STILL feelings there enough to make her want to go?

 

And if you didn't let her go, after she acknowledged those feelings, wouldn't you always wonder for years down the road if she regretted not going to get that final closure or if she resented you for not letting her get it?

 

I say, if you want to pay last respects to a single affair partner, acknowledge the desire, do it, and be done with it. Get the final closure. No regrets, no resentments.

 

I don't see how getting final closure could hurt the marital recovery. From the wayward's perspective, getting that final closure may actually help the healing.

 

And I just don't see how a dead body could be any threat to one's marriage.

 

If your marital recovery is stong, your marriage is back on solid ground, and you TRUST your wife to remain committed to you, I do not see anything wrong with her getting final closure on a dark chapter of her life by paying last respects to a dead man. You could jump up and down and say that she was betraying you again by paying last respects..but who would she be betraying you WITH...a dead body!

 

 

 

It would be acknowledging a bond that was in no way "respectful". A bond that was directly in conflict with her bond with me.

 

But the thing is your wife has already acknowledged that bond. The bond exists. It might be a 6 year old bond post d-day, but your wife would still acknowledge that there was a bond. In 50 years she will still acknowledge that there was a bond.

 

To me, not acknowledging that there was still a hint of a bond left is more disrespectful. It would be a form of lying. And to ignore that there was a bond, or that there will always be some degree of a bond, well...that would just be sticking your head in the sand.

[Owl]

 

 

 

 

 

But the thing is your wife has already acknowledged that bond. The bond exists. It might be a 6 year old bond post d-day, but your wife would still acknowledge that there was a bond. In 50 years she will still acknowledge that there was a bond.

 

To me, not acknowledging that there was still a hint of a bond left is more disrespectful. It would be a form of lying. And to ignore that there was a bond, or that there will always be some degree of a bond, well...that would just be sticking your head in the sand.

 

Here's where you're looking at this the wrong way, Taylor. And honestly, if I were your H and you told me this same thing, I'd have serious doubts about our recovery.

 

The bond existed...that bond no longer exists.

 

If that bond still existed...I'd no longer be married to my wife. My wife was in love with OM...she's not now. If she were now...we'd not be married.

 

She views this time in her life as a mistake. Its not something that I think that she'd willing bring back up to attend his funeral for.

 

The fact that you feel that his bond still exists, rather than view this as in the past would be an indicator to me that you're still not recovered.

 

But that's where our disconnect here is...because I see this bond as broken, as no longer in existance. Going to his funeral dredges up that bond...and doing so against the wishes of your BS would be indicating that bond as more important to you than your bond to your husband.

 

See the difference in view here?

[taylor]

Here's where you're looking at this the wrong way, Taylor. And honestly, if I were your H and you told me this same thing, I'd have serious doubts about our recovery.

 

The bond existed...that bond no longer exists.

 

If that bond still existed...I'd no longer be married to my wife. My wife was in love with OM...she's not now. If she were now...we'd not be married.

 

She views this time in her life as a mistake. Its not something that I think that she'd willing bring back up to attend his funeral for.

 

The fact that you feel that his bond still exists, rather than view this as in the past would be an indicator to me that you're still not recovered.

 

I guess we just look at the word "BOND" differently, OWL. You don't have to be in love with someone to have a bond. People fall in and out of love. People get together and then break up. People hate other people for wrongs that they did to each other. BUT, there is still a BOND that ties them together by virtue of the fact that they had some kind of impact..some kind of effect...on the other person's life. Sure, the effect may be positive or negative, good, or bad, but it still results in the formation of a bond...something that will tie you to that person in one way or another, whether you want it to or not.

 

I still have a bond to a little friend I knew for only one year in first grade. Haven't seen her since then, but if I run into her, I would greet her warmly because of the brief time we interacted as children.

 

I will always, for the rest of my life, have some sort of bond...a tie, with the OM, that links us...JUST BY VIRTUE OF our year long interaction with each other. Does that mean I want a relationship with him now? No. Does that mean I will EVER want a relationship with him? NO. Does it mean I will ever compromise my relationship with my husband for this OM again...or for any other man? NO. I HAVE LEARNED MY LESSON.

 

But that's where our disconnect here is...because I see this bond as broken, as no longer in existance. Going to his funeral dredges up that bond...and doing so against the wishes of your BS would be indicating that bond as more important to you than your bond to your husband.

 

My emotional connection with my OM is broken, but from now until the day I die, history will link us...a bond that I can't break by virtue of our interaction at a specific point in my life.

 

If my husband was totally against me visiting his graveside, I would respect his wishes. But I would hope that as we move farther thru marital recovery, he would not see that as a betrayal. And who knows, by the time I get 6 years post D-day like you, I may look at the whole thing differently, too.

 

My marital recovery is not anywhere as far along as yours, OWL. It has only been in the past couple months that I can finally say the OM has been moved into my recent past. I guage this by my desire to move past him and past the affair...rather than hold on to all the "glitter" that I thought he was. He has lost all of the luster.

[John Who]

I guess I see it as both, OWL. Receiving news, any news regarding an affair partner, can be considered a break in NO CONTACT in that the news can be a way of keeping the affair partner in your life...knowing what he is up to, what he's doing, what's happening to him...all are ways of keeping an affair partner in your life. And that's why reading facebook and myspace and discussing the OP with mutual friends is prohibitive if the goal is NC.

 

Receiving news of the OP's death would be the same thing..a break in NO CONTACT in a very alarming way. It's bound to put the affair and affair partner front and center at least momentarily, if not for awhile, emotionally.

 

Even John Who said while he would not attend his OW's funeral, he would FEEL SAD and if she wasn't married, he might ACT by sending flowers.

 

A connection is a connection, OWL, whether it is one-day post D-day or 40 years post D-day. As a BS, you will never forget the affair and thoughts of the OM will probably always elicit some kind of emotion. Same with the wayward spouse...the OW or OM will probably always elicit some type of emotional response because just like you, the wayward spouse will never be able to completely forget the affair.

 

So, I do see where even receiving news of an affair partner's death would be a rupture because for a tiny moment, at least, that news is going to provoke emotional responses in both the BS and the WS.

 

Where we differ, and I am sure it's because of us being on opposite sides of the affair fence, is that the WS could see the death as a final closure. That is how I would view it. But I can see how you wouldn't view it that way..because you aren't the one who had the relationship with the OP. You aren't the one who had to work hard to close your heart to someone who you let in who should never have gotten there in the first place.

 

Once the OP is dead...gone from this world...any conflict or discussion or threat...is just a moot point.

 

Going to a graveside to pay last respects may be considered a public acknowledgement in your eyes. But, whether someone goes or doesn't go, if the desire to go and the feelings are still there, what difference does it make.

 

What difference would it make if your wife said, "I want to go. I am going" and "I want to go, but I won't"? Wouldn't it bother you..just the fact that she wanted to go? Wouldn't THAT be the thing that would rupture the marital healing most...the FACT that there were STILL feelings there enough to make her want to go?

 

And if you didn't let her go, after she acknowledged those feelings, wouldn't you always wonder for years down the road if she regretted not going to get that final closure or if she resented you for not letting her get it?

 

I say, if you want to pay last respects to a single affair partner, acknowledge the desire, do it, and be done with it. Get the final closure. No regrets, no resentments.

 

I don't see how getting final closure could hurt the marital recovery. From the wayward's perspective, getting that final closure may actually help the healing.

 

And I just don't see how a dead body could be any threat to one's marriage.

 

If your marital recovery is stong, your marriage is back on solid ground, and you TRUST your wife to remain committed to you, I do not see anything wrong with her getting final closure on a dark chapter of her life by paying last respects to a dead man. You could jump up and down and say that she was betraying you again by paying last respects..but who would she be betraying you WITH...a dead body!

 

 

 

 

 

But the thing is your wife has already acknowledged that bond. The bond exists. It might be a 6 year old bond post d-day, but your wife would still acknowledge that there was a bond. In 50 years she will still acknowledge that there was a bond.

 

To me, not acknowledging that there was still a hint of a bond left is more disrespectful. It would be a form of lying. And to ignore that there was a bond, or that there will always be some degree of a bond, well...that would just be sticking your head in the sand.

 

If the ow died while we were still involved with each other,I would feel sad,or have some sort of other feeling I can't exactly say,it depends how I feel about the ow.

 

I would send flowers instead of attending WITHOUT my name on the card of course,BUT this is ONLY if we were still involved,If after ending A with ow and she passed away months,or years later then no I would not send flowers or go to graveside and I most likely will not even feel sad.

[taylor]

If the ow died while we were still involved with each other,I would feel sad,or have some sort of other feeling I can't exactly say,it depends how I feel about the ow.

 

I would send flowers instead of attending WITHOUT my name on the card of course,BUT this is ONLY if we were still involved,If after ending A with ow and she passed away months,or years later then no I would not send flowers or go to graveside and I most likely will not even feel sad.

 

I take it then you did not have a friendship with your OW?

 

And if you did, how do you forget a friendship within a couple of months?

 

Why send flowers in the midst of the affair, but not afterwards? Why feel sad in the midst of the affair, but not in a few short months after the affair? Do your feelings really come and go that quickly? If so, would you say your feelings for the OW were so superficial that they would dissipate the day after the affair ended?

 

I didn't know human beings were capable of turning their feelings on and off that fast. Truly, I didn't know.

 

I guess, then, the answer to this question depends on how deeply a person's feelings were for the OP or how much your relationship meant at the time of the affair. Would that be fair to say?

 

How do you think your OW would have felt if it had been your death? What would she do..not do?

 

**I apologize for assuming too much in my post above with reference to you..your feelings..the flowers.