To OW/OM - what would you do if BS committed suicide as a result of the affair?

May 13, 2009

You seriously don't know what you are talking about. I don't agree with Lizzie on much, but unless you have been in that frame of mind, you don't have a clue. Not dying doesn't have anything to do with the seriousness of the attempt or the avenue taken to try to kill one's self.

People who really want to die will not make arrangements or let people know...they will just kill themselves. People who are contemplating to kill themselves do things to bring attention to it-write notes ( and leave them where they will be found easily) or talk about dying ( to anybody who cares to listen) are not serious about dying in itself but are serious about harming themselves in the hopes for a) attention 2) change their situation.

Unfortunately, sometimes nobody takes notice about the 'cry for help" and the person succeeds to kill himself, or fails to get the attention he craves before harming himself.

May 13, 2009

So for you it was selfish, because you only thought about you and the pain you were in. And you didn't care because you were only focused on you and not the people left behind.

For me I envisioned my children having opportunities they would have never had with the "bad" mother I constantly believed I was. I envisioned my siblings not having to "live up to" the image I created(and was placed as the standard to follow by our parents) and I envisioned Mr. Messy finally being happy, since I was the "cause" of all his:rolleyes:pain. I went so far as to plan how to make it look like an accident for the double indemnity policy.

It is still self-serving, you get to feel good about yourself leaving the world knowing you did such an "unselfish act" for people you love.

May 13, 2009

I find it absolutely heartbreaking just how cold and cruel we women can be. I suppose in the age of post-feminist moral relativsm, everything goes, and no one should be blamed for "following their heart" even if it means others take their own lives. If every BS should be fully accountable for the causes of affairs, and their response to those affairs, why are OW not held to the same standard, and held 100% responsible for their actions? I wonder what sorts of responses we would see if the question was posed with the OW committing suicide instead!? So often it seems there is more sympathy on infidelity forums for those who willingly engage in affairs, than for those who unwillingly become the victims. And it breaks my heart that it is mostly the women involved in affairs who lose...lose their belief in human goodness, love, honesty....lose their ability to love and trust and be a tower of strength in a way that only a woman can be.

As humans, our reality is not just made up of our own actions, but the actions of others towards us, and those actions can lead us one way or another.

I really wish we women could protect our honour and live to be our own no.1 woman instead of becoming pawns who end up short changing ourselves and our sisters. I'm always amazed at how many strong intelligent women buy into hardline feminist mentalities so fully, not realising that it is the root of much of the dilemmas, such as affairs, which we experience today.

I used to be sympathetic to OW in general, and I suppose I am still to an extent sympathetic to those who are actually tricked into affairs. But that there are women who can knowingly engage in such affairs, and detach themselves from reality to such an extent so that they brusquely dismiss the suicide of another human being (the loss of a human life!!), just because it fits their situation, is truly heartbreaking. I live in a city where suicide is not uncommon, and it breaks my heart to think I am a contributing member of a society where so many feel so desperate to be driven to such an act. It is absolutely mindblowing that some people who may directly contribute to to such an act can treat it so lightly. What a world we live in....

May 13, 2009

How would you respond if the betrayed spouse discovered the affair, became distraught and then killed themselves over it?

I'd never be the same again. Knowing that I had something to do with an affair that lead to someone taking thier life.. really, how could anyone live with that guilt?

Mea:)

May 13, 2009

You seriously don't know what you are talking about. I don't agree with Lizzie on much, but unless you have been in that frame of mind, you don't have a clue. Not dying doesn't have anything to do with the seriousness of the attempt or the avenue taken to try to kill one's self.

Exactly.. I personally know a guy that shot himself in the face with a 12 gauge rifle.. half his face was blown away (the lower part).. he now look like a monster.. he even stayed conscious for hours.. it was insane..

Then a year or two later..he shot himself in the liver.. and again.. didn't die..

I agree.. he has no clue what he's talking about.

May 13, 2009

I don't know y'all. I still think at the end of the day we are all responsible for our OWN actions (as you've heard me say here on LS time and time again).,

I do agree with the bold part.. BUT it's easy to say when someone is in a 'normal' set of mind... but when you're deeply down, you're not SANE anymore.. therefore NOT responsible anymore..

May 13, 2009

I do agree with the bold part.. BUT it's easy to say when someone is in a 'normal' set of mind... but when you're deeply down, you're not SANE anymore.. therefore NOT responsible anymore..

Lizzie-

I usually love what you have to say here on LS. But personal responsibility is personal responsibility. When someone drinks too much and is obviously NOT in the 'normal' set of mind, gets in a car and kills someone else - whose fault is it? Whether you kill yourself or someone else, you are still taking that action - 'normal' or not.

May 13, 2009

I wonder what sorts of responses we would see if the question was posed with the OW committing suicide instead!?

I've already thought of that and if you had read the whole thread, you would have seen my response. I would care about the BW committing suicide AS MUCH AS she would care if the OW did the same.

We are all different. Some people would be devastated thinking they had a hand in someone else's act to take their own life. Others would shrug and not give a s*** because it's not their problem. The fact that we are all so different is what makes the world interesting.

May 13, 2009

Lizzie-
I usually love what you have to say here on LS. But personal responsibility is personal responsibility. When someone drinks too much and is obviously NOT in the 'normal' set of mind, gets in a car and kills someone else - whose fault is it? Whether you kill yourself or someone else, you are still taking that action - 'normal' or not.

I tend to see 'alcool' as being an addiction.. it starts 'slowly' you don't become addicted overnight. .. but depression is something else.. IMO.

I just can't compare someone who drinks one night and kill someone with someone who is depressed and commit suicide.. Alcohol was the 'element declencheur' (what triggered the unormal behaviour, and yes it was a choice and a responsibility to not drink).. but depression cannot be controlled the same way.

May 13, 2009

One cannot take responsibility for another persons mental illness.

Well, I partially disagree with this. You don't think that someone, for example, that mentally abuses a spouse can drive them crazy over time?

As far as cheating, I can see it making someone irrational.

But I don't think that someone that contemplates or commits suicide has a mental illness. I think plenty of sane people have taken their own lives because of the pain they are in.

May 13, 2009

I tend to see 'alcool' as being an addiction.. it starts 'slowly' you don't become addicted overnight. .. but depression is something else.. IMO.

I just can't compare someone who drinks one night and kill someone with someone who is depressed and commit suicide.. Alcohol was the 'element declencheur' (what triggered the unormal behaviour, and yes it was a choice and a responsibility to not drink).. but depression cannot be controlled the same way.

Well, you tell an alcoholic to "control" his drinking and see what happens.

Lizzie, I've been there. I've looked into the abyss of depression while standing at the edge of the pit. I thought about it, couldn't see a way out of it, but didn't do it. If I had, it would still have been my choice.

May 13, 2009

I have very mixed feeling about suicide. I've lost a number of very close friends and family to suicide over the years, and so I can appreciate both the pain of those who left, and the pain of those who were left behind.

As the psychologists say, everyone has skeletons in their closet, but suicide leaves a skeleton in the closet of others. Whether intended by the suicide or not, suicide does lasting damage to those left behind.

May 13, 2009

I have very mixed feeling about suicide. I've lost a number of very close friends and family to suicide over the years, and so I can appreciate both the pain of those who left, and the pain of those who were left behind.

As the psychologists say, everyone has skeletons in their closet, but suicide leaves a skeleton in the closet of others. Whether intended by the suicide or not, suicide does lasting damage to those left behind.

So true, so true. And in a clear thinking state of mind, this makes perfect sense. What others here don't seem to get, is if you live in a state of depression, without knowing about that there is something wrong, how are you responsible for the thought processes. If it is all you know(I honestly thought depression meant crazy house depression)...as you can see this subject has touched deeply. It has brought me back to the place of lack of understanding of suicide in general and the causes specifically. It makes me angry to think that there is someone out there being told you are so selfish to even consider this action when they don't have a freaking clue what maybe going on chemically in a person's brain. You can choose to drink or not. You can chose to have chemical levels in your body be different than what is normally expected in a healthy person.

May 13, 2009

People who really want to die will not make arrangements or let people know...they will just kill themselves. People who are contemplating to kill themselves do things to bring attention to it-write notes ( and leave them where they will be found easily) or talk about dying ( to anybody who cares to listen) are not serious about dying in itself but are serious about harming themselves in the hopes for a) attention 2) change their situation.

Unfortunately, sometimes nobody takes notice about the 'cry for help" and the person succeeds to kill himself, or fails to get the attention he craves before harming himself.

Not true for more than half of suicide attempts. My notes were in a safety deposit box, to be distributed on special days for my kids. So that they would know I was in their heart and there with them in spirit. I didn't give a damn about attention.

May 13, 2009

I do agree with the bold part.. BUT it's easy to say when someone is in a 'normal' set of mind... but when you're deeply down, you're not SANE anymore.. therefore NOT responsible anymore..

Amen sister. You are so right.

May 13, 2009

lol..darth..your right, as long as there is life, there is hope <forgive the cliche>...

;)Gotta love it when the ladies flirt!

May 13, 2009

That is SO true

May 14, 2009

I've already thought of that and if you had read the whole thread, you would have seen my response. I would care about the BW committing suicide AS MUCH AS she would care if the OW did the same.

We are all different. Some people would be devastated thinking they had a hand in someone else's act to take their own life. Others would shrug and not give a s*** because it's not their problem. The fact that we are all so different is what makes the world interesting.

Your response here is interesting... I didn't reply to your comments specifically - there are others who expressed similar sentiments to yours, but you are the only one who decided my response comments was directed at you personally and started shooting from the hip.

You are not the centre of the universe. I did not even remember your post specifically. I initally read your response above without realising immediately you had quoted me. I think I read all the responses in the thread, felt a bit saddened by some of the sentiments, but didn't pinpoint a specific poster, and in my own response I rather tried to hone in on my feelings in generic terms.

I am not going bother reading your post which you referenced above, even if you feel I should/should have read it. The universe does not revolve around you. I decide what I read and when, and right now it is not the best use of my time to read your musings. I am anyway, entitled to express my views regardless of whatever on earth you already wrote.

Everyone is entitled to freedom of thought and their views. The fact that we are all so different, but can empathise with others and engage with them effectively makes the world infinitely more interesting to me, than just the simple fact that we are different. Anyone can be different, the challenge is to the be able to rise above differences. My views on this issue differs to yours. Whilst your views may shock me, sadden me and cause me to question human virtue, I do not deny your right to express them.

Take care.

May 19, 2009

When I discovered my H's affair I didn't want to be alive - didn't want to experience the pain. I received an e-mail from the OW in which she too said she wished she was dead.

Perhaps the original question could validly have also been directed at MM who stray. How would they feel if either the wife or affair partner committed suicide?

[i know the old argument that people are responsible for their own actions etc etc - but that didn't stop me feeling like I didn't want to be around any more - I never got as far as seriously trying to take my own life and neither did the OW although we are only 6 months out since D-day and a couple of weeks ago she broke NC for the first time.]

S

May 19, 2009

I hear from OM/OW all the time that they don't care about the BS, don't know them, the BS is insignificant to them, the BS must have done something to allow the OM/OW easy access to their spouse, the BS is a terrible person.....so hearing all that on this board, why WOULD an OM/OW give a rat's ass about the BS if they killed themselves?

May 19, 2009

Well, I would suppose that depended on the individual. Again, deep sigh, not all OWs are the same. Just as not all diamonds are the same.

I for one would have been devastated if the BW would have killed herself. That is why I went to great lengths to conceal myself. Did I enjoy being concealed? Not really, yet I knew from the outset I was never going to try to break up a M and with that priority in mind I accepted, even implemented, a low profile in the R.

Only speaking for myself, though. I'm well aware that there are some sharks out there. I just don't happen to know any of them.

May 19, 2009

Well, I would suppose that depended on the individual. Again, deep sigh, not all OWs are the same. Just as not all diamonds are the same.

I for one would have been devastated if the BW would have killed herself.

and I believe you snow. question is, did you have the attitude that you had absolutely NO responsibility in the role you played and saw the BW as an insignificant being that you could have cared less about?

I don't think you were one of the OW that has the mindset that had no compassion for the BW, even though you were engaging in an affair with her husband.

May 19, 2009

and I believe you snow. question is, did you have the attitude that you had absolutely NO responsibility in the role you played and saw the BW as an insignificant being that you could have cared less about?

I don't think you were one of the OW that has the mindset that had no compassion for the BW, even though you were engaging in an affair with her husband.

Explain snow.

I was responsible for being discreet and hidden. She never found out, she never got hurt. I made sure of that. Why? Because I had compassion for her.

She was very significant to exMM and he didn't want to hurt her any further due to his shortcomings. Once I saw it for what it was it became even more important to me not to hurt her. I might admit in the beginning my concerns were more important to me than hers were to her but I got over my temporary selfishness and made her feelings the priority. It's all a learning process DM. And she is living very well to prove it.

May 19, 2009

Explain snow.

gee...dont know what I'm thinking...I'm thinking of snow flower. Got the right person, just the wrong handle. sorry.

I was responsible for being discreet and hidden. She never found out, she never got hurt. I made sure of that. Why? Because I had compassion for her.

She was very significant to exMM and he didn't want to hurt her any further due to his shortcomings. Once I saw it for what it was it became even more important to me not to hurt her. I might admit in the beginning my concerns were more important to me than hers were to her but I got over my temporary selfishness and made her feelings the priority. It's all a learning process DM. And she is living very well to prove it.

well you are different, and rare, from the OW of which I spoke above.

May 19, 2009

gee...dont know what I'm thinking...I'm thinking of snow flower. Got the right person, just the wrong handle. sorry.

well you are different, and rare, from the OW of which I spoke above.

Ah, Snow Flower! I thoght you were trying to say I was snowing you over!

Well it's good to see that you realize you can't lump them all into the same category. (Not saying I'm better than anyone else, just different).

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To OW/OM - what would you do if BS committed suicide as a result of the affair?

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