Why doesn't the husband/wife end the marriage?

[Mr. Lucky]

And Mr. Lucky, you missed the point of what I said before. I didn't post here during seeing him because of the viciousness of the BS's, even though it was supposed to be a forum for ME to post in.

I know JMC, I was teasing you. I didn't really think that you had based your life decisions solely on input from an online forum. I have a subversive sense of humor, probably doesn't come across too well in print. Then again, maybe it doesn't come across too well in person either .

I had chemistry with him unlike anyone else I've ever been with. I loved him dearly and still do. If he contacts me, I'll gladly see him again.

I don't have to be a BS (long time ago in my case) to feel that what you're doing is wrong. It has more to do with values and less to do with experience...

 

Mr. Lucky

[White Flower]

WF, I don't know if you can "win em over". In my situation it was the wife who stayed in a marriage with a married lover on the side. As the big dumb lug, I didn't have a clue for almost 20 years. When I began suspecting something was not quite right, I purposefully pushed it down, supressing it. There wasn't much else I could do with a 13 and 14 year old in the mix, or so I thought.

 

Trapped or not, I wasn't going to rock the boat with the children being so close to grown. In the end, with the children gone, she made her move, and is living happily ever after. All I got out of it was a T-shirt, and the knowledge that I did the best I knew how to, the best I could.

 

Sometimes it's not just about you, it's about the situation. Maybe it's about trying right or wrong to do the best for your loved ones, especially the children.

 

I don't know that it hurt any less, or made it any easier to get through. I do know that it makes what's come in the eight years since something to be proud of.

 

Or maybe I'm full of doo-doo eh?

Well, Lakey, I was talking to the BSs who seem quick to judge (and very harshly) the OPs when all the OPs are trying to do is figure out their sitch.

[White Flower]

As much as an OW believes she knows about the MP the person who lives with them and who has known them for many years undoubtedly understands more about them. The OW's interaction with the MP is limited. Therefore the OW knows and understands only those things that the MP communicates with them. More often than not the spouse knows more about them personally than someone who they are dating. It is just the nature of the relationship.

 

When I was young and stupid I was an OW. So I understand from whence I come. As a wife now for 13 1/2 years I also know the wife's experience. My husband cheated last year. I know what he told her and I know what he did. He made promises, he made statements concerning his feelings. He led her on. The day I learned of his affair he ended it right then and there. While he wanted to fool around he did not want to give up his marriage so he gave up the fooling around. His affair was very short lived. But in the wake of all of it was a woman who believed he loved her who was dropped cold when I found out. Sure, she has feelings and there is no doubt she was hurt and perhaps hurt badly. After all, he told her things that were factually untrue and conveyed emotions and promises that were obviously also untrue.

 

Marriage isn't a prison sentence. It is voluntary. The OW is privileged to live in a very controlled world. If he tells the OW that he is no longer in love or sleeping with his wife the OW has no choice but to believe this. Hence, it is accepted as a fact. I can tell you from my experience that when my husband told this to the OW is was not true and when he broke it off with her and told her the truth she was not very happy about it.

 

Truth is a funny thing. Words can be conveyed to someone who wouldn't know any different and they would reasonably accept it as truth. However, the truth may be something entirely different. It is called 'lip service'. Rarely is there an OW who would enter into a fling with a MP if they knew up front that the MP was in love, sleeping with, and committed to their wife... albeit in a very dysfunctional way if they are having an affair.

 

Many MP who cheat, are caught and are remorseful wind up suffering with marriage problems, face divorce and often wind up in therapy to figure out why they were so broken... and to explain to themselves why they would do such a thing. To the OW it is a love affair or simply an affair. My husbands former OW has no idea about the remorse, tears, regret, and the therapy. All she knows is that he led her on and then ended it cold.

 

All too often this is the outcome.

Actually I think this is a great post. It gives tons of insight and information and doesn't force any personal values on anyone. I can deduce my own judgments privately just by reading the sad outcome for the OW in this case. Communication well done Gamine.

 

You didn't need to pull any punches by sounding harsh because the reality of your story spoke for itself. This is what this forum is about. I wish more BSs spoke the way you do because we can learn from your experience without having to fight off the stones and lose our direction in our own path. I can come here to figure things out for my sitch or I can come here to fight. But if I fight, I'm still having an affair. All the fighting did was delay my decision on whether to end the A.

[NoIDidn't]

I can come here to figure things out for my sitch or I can come here to fight. But if I fight, I'm still having an affair. All the fighting did was delay my decision on whether to end the A.

 

So are you saying that you were more willing to fight for your right to stay in a bad situation just because you didn't like the way someone said something?

[OWoman]

Fooling around with another woman's husband is frankly... the equivalent of shoplifting. You have the pretty scarf you stole... but I doubt it feels as good as if you earned the money and paid for it. You will never wear the scarf with the same amount of pride as if you earned it.

 

I'm not the queen or a bag lady, so I don't wear scarves, but on whether or not it feels as good sleeping with another woman's H - you'll find threads on here about why the sex with MM is so great. And it is, no denying it.

 

So, I'm here to say this... being an OW is just that. Even if you win him, you have won a man who you know with certainty will leave a relationship when something better comes along... you will have won a man who you know may not stay with you if you become ill, who doesn't know what it means to keep his word or his vow.

 

Know with certainty, huh? Gosh, then how do you explain all the cases for which that is not true - all those MMs who dumped their Ws, married their OWs, and lived happy ever after with no cheating, no regrets, no leaving and true satisfaction? I know many IRL - they seem MORE likely to stay the second time around, IME. Intelligent people learn from their mistakes - starting with making a better choice of partner second time around.

[NoIDidn't]

I know many IRL - they seem MORE likely to stay the second time around, IME. Intelligent people learn from their mistakes - starting with making a better choice of partner second time around.

 

This may be a personal anecdote, but the statistics do not bear this out as true. Second marriages have an even smaller window of success.

 

I dunno, OWoman, you are doing an awful lot of lashing out an anyone that seems to be saying something negative about an OW actually marrying her MM.

[OWoman]

As much as an OW believes she knows about the MP the person who lives with them and who has known them for many years undoubtedly understands more about them. The OW's interaction with the MP is limited. Therefore the OW knows and understands only those things that the MP communicates with them. More often than not the spouse knows more about them personally than someone who they are dating. It is just the nature of the relationship.

 

This is a generalisation based on one type of A only, and makes assumptions about Ms that certainly don't hold true in all cases.

 

In some - perhaps even many - Ms, the spouse may THINK they know their spouse, but what they "know" is a long-gone image of how (they imagined) that person once was, not the person as they are now. In between the daily drudgery, the dissatisfaction and (yes) the nagging, that connection with and sense of the person got lost. Why else would the cliche of "my W doesn't understand me" resonate so strongly for so many people?? Because, for many MPs, it's true - they've lost touch with who their spouse really is, and their spouse likewise with them.

 

And, conversely, in some As there is as much "real life real time" as there is in the M - or more so, if you're looking at quality and not just quantity.

 

When I was young and stupid I was an OW. So I understand from whence I come.

 

When I was young and stupid, I was M. I also grew out of that... and became an OW, for a great many years. I'm M again now, so I also know "both sides" Do I also get a prize?

 

The OW is privileged to live in a very controlled world. If he tells the OW that he is no longer in love or sleeping with his wife the OW has no choice but to believe this. Hence, it is accepted as a fact.

 

Again, this may be true in some As, but certainly not in all.

 

Some As are more deeply embedded in the MM's life than the W is - they attend work, family and social functions with the MM because the W is not welcome. They are closely integrated into his social circles, are the ones business people contact as a proxy when he is away and are the ones with access to his personal information - including medical records. So sometimes they KNOW things from multiple sources, with hard evidence - things the W may not know, or may not know the full story about.

[OWoman]

This may be a personal anecdote' date=' but the statistics do not bear this out as true. Second marriages have an even smaller window of success.[/quote']

 

I agree with you on the stats, NID - I've seen those reported, too. So yes, mine is just an anecdotal account - it's probably because the kind of people I hang out with, where I work etc are far from representative of the world's population at large.

 

I dunno' date=' OWoman, you are doing an awful lot of lashing out an anyone that seems to be saying something negative about an OW actually marrying her MM.[/quote']

 

True - I am picking up the increased bitterness and negativity on these boards and lashing out in response. I just get so tired of people claiming that because something once happened to them, it's necessarily true that that's the only thing that can ever happen to anyone else... when some of us KNOW that's not true because we live different realities every day! That arrogant smug complacency really gets to me - instead of being prepared to listen to each person's own situation and respond to IT and THEM appropriately, they use it as an opportunity to instruct the OP in how they ought to conduct their lives as ordained by the great spaghetti monster in the sky.

 

But my H just texted to say his flight is on schedule, so no doubt once he returns my mood will improve

 

(apologies for the t/j)

[NoIDidn't]

But my H just texted to say his flight is on schedule, so no doubt once he returns my mood will improve

 

(apologies for the t/j)

 

I hope so. You've been very snippy lately. Hopefully his presence will life your mood. LOL

 

<end tj>

[jwi71]

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

 

I only stopped seeing him because he ended it.

 

IF NOT I'D STILL BE FORNICATING WITH HIM AND ENJOYING EVERY SCREAMING ORGASM. I had chemistry with him unlike anyone else I've ever been with. I loved him dearly and still do. If he contacts me, I'll gladly see him again.

 

~~~~~

 

And Mr. Lucky, you missed the point of what I said before. I didn't post here during seeing him because of the viciousness of the BS's, even though it was supposed to be a forum for ME to post in.

 

Now you make more sense to me.

 

I was wondering where that fury was coming from...now I know.

 

Do you always get this mad at being dumped? Is this a normal reaction for you in a breakup?

 

And I'll tell you upfront I'm a BS.

[jwi71]

Know with certainty, huh? Gosh, then how do you explain all the cases for which that is not true - all those MMs who dumped their Ws, married their OWs, and lived happy ever after with no cheating, no regrets, no leaving and true satisfaction? I know many IRL - they seem MORE likely to stay the second time around, IME. Intelligent people learn from their mistakes - starting with making a better choice of partner second time around.

 

Owoman,

 

I know your story from about 50k feet...the major points anyway.

I understand your H's xW was mentally ill and abusive to him. And, failing to improve herself he turned to you.

 

What I DON'T understand is your eagerness to continually attack her and others. Why do you NEED to attack this sadly unstable woman?

 

I have pity for her...her life IS hell. Why do you seem to take pleasure in that? And not just her...other BS as well?

 

It seems sadistic to me.

Are you that threatened by her? Jealous?

 

Where does it come from?

[desertmoon]

OH...when you dig yourself a hole the FIRST thing you do is stop digging.

 

I will demonstrate that now.

 

I will trade my shovel for high explosives...why dig when you can blast the hole deeper?

 

After you take out the trash, cook dinner and borrow that french maid outfit from donna...

 

LOL......!

[desertmoon]

Sometimes it's not just about you, it's about the situation. Maybe it's about trying right or wrong to do the best for your loved ones, especially the children.

 

Ahh so true Lakeside...

[herenow]

You are the rare poster who sees things in the various persepctives. A lot of BS tend to jab, even if they offer real advice or experience. It is the 'jabbers' who think they are making a difference. The only difference they make is to drive away people who may really be seeking advice.

 

I hate to preach, but even the Bible says to win them over with kindness. If you want people to change, kill them with kindness!

 

Thanks WF.

 

I agree that kindness is usually the best way to deal with a situation. But, not at the expense of the truth.

 

There are ways to be honest without being rude. Sometimes, especially in a charged debate, it very hard to do. Believe me, I have taken and given jabs here many times.

[NoIDidn't]

Thanks WF.

 

I agree that kindness is usually the best way to deal with a situation. But, not at the expense of the truth.

 

There are ways to be honest without being rude. Sometimes, especially in a charged debate, it very hard to do. Believe me, I have taken and given jabs here many times.

 

I think the thing that is lost on some of the OW here is what I bolded. Because they are so invested in believing everything negative about the BW, they (a small subset of the group) launch into personal attacks into why our H's cheated on us. That is nothing less than a jab and not at all an attempt to be understanding. Its outright rude.

 

Its totally understandable when someone jabs back. Totally understandable.

 

But when the truth is pointed out, its suddenly a jab in their eyes. A new poster wrote about the MM putting his ring back on after a d-day that ended the A (this is not about the new poster or to belittle her feelings, mind you). But he's staying married, right? Why wouldn't he put his ring back on? This is such a common thing that's posted about, and when the obvious is pointed out the OW takes it as an insult. I understand his action may make her feel diminished, but he IS married. That's the truth, not a jab.

 

Pointing out the inconvenient truth that the MP is married (what the M stands for) becomes the biggest insult to someone who feels they were promised the moon. The true insult to me is when that person starts in with the "now I know why your husband cheated on you" crap that usually comes next. Noone deserves to be cheated on. And that statement is beyond low and classless, IMO.

[herenow]

I think the thing that is lost on some of the OW here is what I bolded. Because they are so invested in believing everything negative about the BW, they (a small subset of the group) launch into personal attacks into why our H's cheated on us. That is nothing less than a jab and not at all an attempt to be understanding. Its outright rude.

 

Its totally understandable when someone jabs back. Totally understandable.

 

But when the truth is pointed out, its suddenly a jab in their eyes. A new poster wrote about the MM putting his ring back on after a d-day that ended the A (this is not about the new poster or to belittle her feelings, mind you). But he's staying married, right? Why wouldn't he put his ring back on? This is such a common thing that's posted about, and when the obvious is pointed out the OW takes it as an insult. I understand his action may make her feel diminished, but he IS married. That's the truth, not a jab.

 

Pointing out the inconvenient truth that the MP is married (what the M stands for) becomes the biggest insult to someone who feels they were promised the moon. The true insult to me is when that person starts in with the "now I know why your husband cheated on you" crap that usually comes next. Noone deserves to be cheated on. And that statement is beyond low and classless, IMO.

 

Sure, but even when a person come at me with that line, I'm ready for it. Why? Because we are talking about a subject that, by it's very nature, is deceptive, covered in lies and painful to most who are touched by it.

 

The emotions on this site are the true life consequences of affairs. Why would anyone want to hide those feelings just to be "nice"? Affairs are not nice and neither is the fall out.

[NoIDidn't]

Sure, but even when a person come at me with that line, I'm ready for it. Why? Because we are talking about a subject that, by it's very nature, is deceptive, covered in lies and painful to most who are touched by it.

 

The emotions on this site are the true life consequences of affairs. Why would anyone want to hide those feelings just to be "nice"? Affairs are not nice and neither is the fall out.

 

But being ready for it doesn't make it kosher to say, KWIM?

 

I also think that affairs must be very nice based on the pie in the sky dreaming that's often done here about how things will be if/when the OP gets the MP all to themselves. What we witness here is the fallout of that Fantasy Bubble being burst. And its not pretty.

[herenow]

But being ready for it doesn't make it kosher to say, KWIM?

 

I also think that affairs must be very nice based on the pie in the sky dreaming that's often done here about how things will be if/when the OP gets the MP all to themselves. What we witness here is the fallout of that Fantasy Bubble being burst. And its not pretty.

 

Yeah, I KNYM, but that's the way this site is and I have accepted it. Problems happen when those same people who glorify their relationships with married people get hurt. They don't want to see the real raw pain from the BW because they just want a pacifier for their own pain. It just doesn't work that way.

 

Pain is pain and no one should have to hide that pain because someone else doesn't want to see it. It goes both ways. So, I say go ahead a bash me and my decisions, but don't get offended when I give you my opinion right back.

 

Again, this thread is a direct question to the BW's. Deal with the answers or don't ask the question.

[pkn06002]

You know, I did support you when one of the regular BS "bashers" started in on you. You did not deserve what he was shoveling at you.

 

Then in THIS thread you lie about my man and claim that he calls me a nag, and I'm supposed to like it. Then you go further and further and get surprised when I give you some back?

 

1+1=2

 

Truce?

 

You went and asked him didn't you??? LOL!!!!! If you did tell him I'm sorry.

 

I did not think that comment would get you all upset. Men do tell other men their SO nags, then they turn around and say she doesn't when she asks. It was NOT meant to be a personal attack on you.

 

So yes a Truce it is!

[pkn06002]

Sure, but even when a person come at me with that line, I'm ready for it. Why? Because we are talking about a subject that, by it's very nature, is deceptive, covered in lies and painful to most who are touched by it.

 

The emotions on this site are the true life consequences of affairs. Why would anyone want to hide those feelings just to be "nice"? Affairs are not nice and neither is the fall out.

 

This is not the forum to vent those feelings that is what the infidelity forum is for.

 

There are ways to say the truth without being nasty. But some folks are so bitter that they lash out, since it seems to make them feel better that they took to a OW/OM/WS.

[pkn06002]

Yeah, I KNYM, but that's the way this site is and I have accepted it. Problems happen when those same people who glorify their relationships with married people get hurt. They don't want to see the real raw pain from the BW because they just want a pacifier for their own pain. It just doesn't work that way.

 

Pain is pain and no one should have to hide that pain because someone else doesn't want to see it. It goes both ways. So, I say go ahead a bash me and my decisions, but don't get offended when I give you my opinion right back.

 

Again, this thread is a direct question to the BW's. Deal with the answers or don't ask the question.

 

I have to take exception to the bold part above.

 

That is all you see from BS over in the infidelity forum, low and behold if you try to paint the whole picture of events. What you are complaining about above is actively support in that forum.

 

Everyone can play nice and tell the truth without getting mean.

[herenow]

This is not the forum to vent those feelings that is what the infidelity forum is for.

 

There are ways to say the truth without being nasty. But some folks are so bitter that they lash out, since it seems to make them feel better that they took to a OW/OM/WS.

 

Then why is this thread even here? It's a direct question to BW's. Seems to me the OP wants the BW's answers or why ask the question?

[NoIDidn't]

There are ways to say the truth without being nasty. But some folks are so bitter that they lash out, since it seems to make them feel better that they took to a OW/OM/WS.

 

This statement seems to assume that there is no such thing as a bitter OP. LOL.

 

So bitter that they think that ALL MM cheat or will never stop cheating even once they are out of the picture. So bitter that they perceive any hurt and anger from a BS towards them as the BS never being angry with their cheating spouse. So bitter that they claim that they will never marry or date again.

 

The betrayed don't have a monopoly on bitterness.

[herenow]

I have to take exception to the bold part above.

 

That is all you see from BS over in the infidelity forum, low and behold if you try to paint the whole picture of events. What you are complaining about above is actively support in that forum.

 

Everyone can play nice and tell the truth without getting mean.

 

Like I said, it's the nature of the subject. It's naive to think that you can get involved in an affair and be shielded to the pain it will or has caused. This is real life not fantasy world. Someone is going to get hurt and that can't be ignored or sugar coated by either side.

 

It really doesn't matter to me when an OW gets angry or "bitter" on this site. It's part of the fall out. So, IMO, we should recognize it for what it is and try to understand it. That doesn't mean we should all be "nice" to each other because that would be a true lie and waste of time because that is not how we feel. IMO. But yes there is a way to communicate that is not mean. It's sometimes hard to do and I admit I can be as guilty as the next person.

[pkn06002]

Then why is this thread even here? It's a direct question to BW's. Seems to me the OP wants the BW's answers or why ask the question?

 

It really should not be in this forum. But most OW/OM will not dare go into the infidelity forum.

 

Yes NoIDidn't I know it goes the other way. I have personally felt it. I now try to just walk away.