Notice A Pattern Here....

[Reggie]

Confused is right. BS men have been dealing with this for years.

As a lawyer, I can tell you that the family court system is the most f'd up system around. Generally(there are exceptions) the lawyers are second rate. The whole system is designed to deal with volume and little analysis is done. It's accounting 101.

[Stepone]

So, those BS's who demanded 'all or nothing' and would never take back and forgive a cheater tend to be the ones who throw the stones.

 

From the little I have read, I don't think this is true at all.

 

In many cases I've read about the BS who breaks up with their WS on discovering the affair - and cricually, moved onto a new life - (and it is possible to forgive btw, even if you don't stay with them) is often pretty philosophical about the whole thing. The wound isn't raw anymore - in not having to still sleep with and wake with the WS every day, and have thoughts and wonders nagging at them, I think this BS is less likely to be bitter and cast aspersions at OPs. If I remember any names of such posters I will update you! But there are loads on here.

 

I could also name some who come on here having taken back their WS who do appear smug and insecure, and just come to tell OWs "look - they stayed with me over you - and here's why" - as if they were speaking to the OW in their own situation!

 

Then there are the inbetweens of course! As always!

 

 

edit: reading further soserious seems one woman who dumped her cheating spouse and isn't bitter against the other women!

[Reggie]

I agree with Stepone. I had some pretty good discussions with a LCP specializing in infidelity counseling from another forum. This forum was very pro reconciliation, and, whenever I would suggest that moving on might be a good idea(remorseless, cake-eating WS situations), I would be blasted.

This woman psychologist PM'd me and we had some back and forth.

Essentially, she said she had found that the BSs that had hard and fast rules, clear boundaries which caused the to jettison the Ws , regardless of remorse, were the healthiest clients. She said they were very likely to have much better future relationships and they healed faster.

And, another women researcher interviewed a fair number of men that stayed with their WWs. Almost unanimously, these guys regretted it after a year or tow, after the competitive thing wore off and the fear of being alone went away.

Something is fundamentally changed after infidelity and hings rarely get better, despite the claims from the sites selling their roncilliation services.

Mu own counselor, a LCP with this specialty, said that in his practice, roughly 10% of couples are able to cary on and have a decent marriage after one has cheated. He said it is just too big of a betrayal for the majority of folks to get past.

It is very healthy, a sign of good self esteem, to jettison someone that has done this to you.

[confusedinkansas]

Reggie - Interesting what you say that counselors have discovered.

I suppose that my husband & myself would be of those 10%. Even though our marriage didn't fall apart in the beginning - right after the affair was discovered, it did faulter 3 years later. (not because of the affair)

We spent a lot of time apart in the last year & have made a joint effort to put our lives back together...TOGETHER. We have a long road ahead....since our troubles were not only about infidelity - but many other issues. But we work on them one day at a time & we both realize things will be difficult from time to time & we aren't perfect. But since we both are on the same page of salvaging the marriage - then I think that helps. (repair things)

[Stepone]

Realtionships are meant to be enjoyable in themselves. Have never been married but have been in several long term relationships and the idea of spending your marriage working on your marriage fills me with.. confusion, and doom I suppose. I would rather spend my marriage having lots of sex, eating nice meals, watching films together, going on cycle rides in the sun, going for walks in the rain, having sex in the woods, playing with the kids, chatting, laughing, spending time with friends, having sex when they'd gone home, working on projects together (other than The Marriage). Furthermore, doing any of these things purposely For The Sake Of The Marriage would also kill any enjoyment in them.

 

Why do people get married? It appears to bring a whole new problem into a loving relationship, of The Marriage!

 

Then again, I am speaking as a lonely spinster with noone to do any of those things with!

[Stepone]

Oh yes - and very interesting Reg, confirms what I suspected. But never mind the self esteem and health of the spouses. You're forgetting the health of The Marriage!

[confusedinkansas]

Stepone: I am sure I'm like most marriages - You tool along thru life & things are peaches & roses. But then you hit a bump (for whatever reason) It happens. No one's life is perfect.

After you get across the bump there is a "recovery time". I suspect & am looking forward to our life being Peaches & Roses again & not too long in the future. The "working" part, really doesn't seem like work. It's just more of a concious effort to make the marriage work...survive...come back together.

We're empty nesters & very much enjoy each other's company. We are pratically joined at the hip most weekends. Which we like. We have fun together & with our grown children......It's starting to feel like the old days.

That's the one thing I think we have that a lot of marriages don't. We remember the good times. Because there were more good than bad.

[Stepone]

Thanks for the explanation - has actually made me see things a bit differently. But still, shut up woman, you're making me jealous! I will never have that - am 33 now and never been married. Noone who marries me now will have seen me young, beautiful, childless (therefore energyful) and optimistic. There will be no good times to look back on when my marriage (assuming i'm ever in one) breaks down.

 

This post honestly makes me feel exactly like happy, slow, Christmas music does! (ie in tears for my own hopelessness, but alive somehow)

 

Good luck to yous- even to a bitter cynic like me, it sounds pretty hopeful Thanks for not flaming me!

[pparrott]

There's hope for LOVE for everyone:love:

[soserious1]

What do I need to heal ? an excellent question and one I've put a lot of thought into. For me, healing cannot happen until such a time that I'm able to trust my instincts and feelings about people and social situations.

 

I am generally not a concrete thinker, life is filled with abstracts. However, I hold firmly to Einstein's definition of insanity.. taking back a person who betrayed me in the worst ways possible and then expecting that things would be different.. lol, that would truly be insane.

 

 

I believe my Ex to be seriously broken inside, I don't wish bad things on him but I don't want him in my life ever again. Perhaps when one is younger these things appear differently, for me though as I look towards the last third of my life, I cannot entrust my fate to someone who's shown such a total and complete disregard for me. I cannot imagine him having power of attorney or of him having the right to pull the plug on life support equipment or worse having him responsible for my basic care needs should I become too fragile in my elder years.

[Bluebird In My Heart]

...

In many cases I've read about the BS who breaks up with their WS on discovering the affair - and cricually, moved onto a new life - (and it is possible to forgive btw, even if you don't stay with them) is often pretty philosophical about the whole thing. The wound isn't raw anymore - in not having to still sleep with and wake with the WS every day, and have thoughts and wonders nagging at them, I think this BS is less likely to be bitter and cast aspersions at OPs. If I remember any names of such posters I will update you! But there are loads on here.

 

I could also name some who come on here having taken back their WS who do appear smug and insecure, and just come to tell OWs "look - they stayed with me over you - and here's why" - as if they were speaking to the OW in their own situation!

 

Then there are the inbetweens of course! As always!

 

 

edit: reading further soserious seems one woman who dumped her cheating spouse and isn't bitter against the other women!

 

 

Agreed.

 

I have occasionally seen some posts that come of as them being a bit frustrated - but they seem to have a wider, more expansive view of how these things go, which makes them much more humane in their treatmnent of others. Even to the point of modifying an opinion/thought if they later felt it right to do that.

 

All to the good.

 

 

##########

 

 

From everything I've read on these boards, I firmly believe that it is part of the BS's healing process to vilify the OP. It makes it easier to forgive the WS (takes some of the guilt load off both of them - the WS for cheating; and the BS for accepting any responsibility for the state of the M that led up to the cheating, or her own poor choice of life partner in the first place) and keep on going with the M.

 

It doesn't make it right or wrong. Just makes it easier for them.

 

+1

 

That's pretty much my take on it as well.

 

##########

 

 

In general, people see what they want to see...

 

 

 

 

.

[tami-chan]

I gave a WS my kindness and true friendship.. he repaid me by using me as a meal ticket and cheating on me with women from craig's list.

 

I don't feel that WS belong in hell or any such thing.. what I do think is that once D day comes and a BS decides that the marriage isn't worth trying to save that a WS should respect that.

 

Why the constant need for WS to gain acceptance from BS here, why is it on us to provide warmth, comfort and a safe place to land ?

 

 

ahhhmmm...i don't think we are talking about your WS or anybody's Ws in particular. We are talking about the WS/OM/Ow who come to this forum who are also experiencing hurt, confusion, etc.etc. These people are NOT your WS...and this is one of the problems of the BSs, they transfer whatever negative feelings they have for their WS to the WS here....case in point above....oh dear.....really.....How about if you cannot read a thread without replacing the WSposter name with your Ws, you just don't respond? I mean that in a very respectful way....I know some people do that--it is just too much for them to read the side of the WS/OM/Ow that they just don't even bother....don't you think that is better?

 

The need to be accepted is human nature, expecially by those who we think hate us....then you get hit by a rusty shovel and come out of a stupor and realized "hmm...what do i need this loser's acceptance for" then you move on...

[Reggie]

Reggie - Interesting what you say that counselors have discovered.

I suppose that my husband & myself would be of those 10%. Even though our marriage didn't fall apart in the beginning - right after the affair was discovered, it did faulter 3 years later. (not because of the affair)

We spent a lot of time apart in the last year & have made a joint effort to put our lives back together...TOGETHER. We have a long road ahead....since our troubles were not only about infidelity - but many other issues. But we work on them one day at a time & we both realize things will be difficult from time to time & we aren't perfect. But since we both are on the same page of salvaging the marriage - then I think that helps. (repair things)

 

Well, that was just my counselor's stat. I've read about 30% survive. I think the key factors are the WS's acceptance of responsibility and acknowledgement of the extent ot the trauma(means they have empathy and perspective).

Also, the vulnerability of the BS is a factor. Folks that have expierienced abandonment osr similar trauma seem less able to get past it, which is natural.

In my situation, I was not nearly as traumatized by my first wife's serial cheating. It was the first time I'd expierienced this type of thing nd I was actually relieved that we now had a court order where she was required to do her share of the child rearing vs constant bar prowling at night.

Second time through it hit me harder and shook my beleif in the goodness of people or the whole institution of marriage. I'm 3 years out and trusting another woman has been difficult.

[soserious1]

ahhhmmm...i don't think we are talking about your WS or anybody's Ws in particular. We are talking about the WS/OM/Ow who come to this forum who are also experiencing hurt, confusion, etc.etc. These people are NOT your WS...and this is one of the problems of the BSs, they transfer whatever negative feelings they have for their WS to the WS here....case in point above....oh dear.....really.....How about if you cannot read a thread without replacing the WSposter name with your Ws, you just don't respond? I mean that in a very respectful way....I know some people do that--it is just too much for them to read the side of the WS/OM/Ow that they just don't even bother....don't you think that is better?

 

The need to be accepted is human nature, expecially by those who we think hate us....then you get hit by a rusty shovel and come out of a stupor and realized "hmm...what do i need this loser's acceptance for" then you move on...

 

Tami,

 

Guess what ? this "loser" BS thinks that people who cheat instead of coming forth and requesting a divorce are morally bankrupt and I'm not really interested in gaining their approval or acceptance. I enjoy the friendship of people with values similar to my own.

[tami-chan]

Tami,

 

Guess what ? this "loser" BS thinks that people who cheat instead of coming forth and requesting a divorce are morally bankrupt and I'm not really interested in gaining their approval or acceptance. I enjoy the friendship of people with values similar to my own.

 

And you are absolutely entitled to your thoughts..and you know what? you do not have to do anything, either. Which begs the question, so why would you post on a thread by a WS/OW/OM/?

 

I mean, look at how you responded here, you "brought" your husband out as if every Ws IS your husband....c'mon, these WS here did not live-off your hard-earned money, did not call you disgusting or anything like that...separate your truth from theirs! anyway, you said you are "happy" that he is out of your life? oh? is he really? if he is, how is that you "see" him in every WS?

 

By the way, why did you marry freeloader?

[Heroic]

Regardless of whether someone believes it stems from a deeper evilness or not, it doesnt give anyone the right to throw stones at the OW/OMs/WSs on this forum.

 

 

Just throwing stones.....I prefer weightier objects and higher velocity ones as well.

[soserious1]

And you are absolutely entitled to your thoughts..and you know what? you do not have to do anything, either. Which begs the question, so why would you post on a thread by a WS/OW/OM/?

 

I mean, look at how you responded here, you "brought" your husband out as if every Ws IS your husband....c'mon, these WS here did not live-off your hard-earned money, did not call you disgusting or anything like that...separate your truth from theirs! anyway, you said you are "happy" that he is out of your life? oh? is he really? if he is, how is that you "see" him in every WS?

 

By the way, why did you marry freeloader?

 

The WS here did do one thing my ex did Tami, they took the morally bankrupt route and they lied and cheated. A WS can sit here and argue till the cows come home about all their rationalizations for cheating but to me that's all it is.. rationalizing away their betrayal. I see very few WS on the infidelity board that even come close to having any true grasp of the damages they've inflicted on their families and far too much of a militant, in the face, "get over it" attitude.

 

BTW, when you decided to address BS who don't treat WS lovingly as "losers" you totally lost me, feel free to add me to your ignore list as well.

[tami-chan]

The WS here did do one thing my ex did Tami, they took the morally bankrupt route and they lied and cheated. A WS can sit here and argue till the cows come home about all their rationalizations for cheating but to me that's all it is.. rationalizing away their betrayal. I see very few WS on the infidelity board that even come close to having any true grasp of the damages they've inflicted on their families and far too much of a militant, in the face, "get over it" attitude.

 

BTW, when you decided to address BS who don't treat WS lovingly as "losers" you totally lost me, feel free to add me to your ignore list as well.

 

I understand all that...but they are here for support, or advice, regardless how they are living their lives or if you agree on their choices or not...I just do not understand why someone like you who has no desire to "help" would come post on a WS/OM/OWs thread....i mean for what? so you can express and transfer you anger?

 

I am very saddened that I have "lost" you. But you must know that I didn't actually say that I think BSs are losers..that would be calling myself a loser, as I am ALSO a BS. The statement below is a general statement: Nowhere did I mentione BS, did I? but if it makes you feel better to interpret it so you can twist it to support your agenda, I am allowing you to...it's the least I can do for you...

 

The need to be accepted is human nature, expecially by those who we think hate us....then you get hit by a rusty shovel and come out of a stupor and realized "hmm...what do i need this loser's acceptance for" then you move on...

 

by the way, I am not going to put you on ignore, your story is gripping...how a freeloader can had so much power over you and how you turned it around....amazing...but YOU can put me on ignore if you want to....it would be a great loss to me....but <shrug>....

[Reggie]

Folks make mistakes in who they marry. Generally, during courtship, the mask is on with the disordered. TC, the same question could be asked of you re marrying a cheater and giving him so much power that you, yourself compromised your integrity and had an affair.So why did you marry a cheater? Why did you have an affair in response to his cheating?

[2sunny]

ahhhhh but CIK, Adultery is a different fallibility ! Apparently it comes from a much deeper 'evil-ness' in people. So much so, that people who do that are condemn to go to hell or at least, be symbolically "stoned to death" in the internet world. !

 

lol...

 

this post is ooozing with judgment, we are here to help and encourage - not necessarily to judge... that is not productive for either side of the fence.

[tami-chan]

Folks make mistakes in who they marry. Generally, during courtship, the mask is on with the disordered. TC, the same question could be asked of you re marrying a cheater and giving him so much power that you, yourself compromised your integrity and had an affair.So why did you marry a cheater? Why did you have an affair in response to his cheating?

 

Actually, I did not marry a cheater. I married a wonderful man who later turned out to be a cheat, and therefore not so wonderful ...and I did not have an affair in response to his cheating.

 

Power....I guess since he is still married to me you can say he has power over me...even though he is in the marriage entirely at my discretion.

[boldjack]

Tami, do you know the OW? If so , what kind of relationship do you have with her? I'm asking out of curiousity, because I have had surprisingly good relations with the BS's of my affairs.

[confusedinkansas]

SEEEEE...............This is what I'm talking about. THIS is why I posted this question/statement in the first place.

People judging - Why on earth would anyone come to a forum like this one & start talking to other people like THEY are the ones that hurt them.

 

Soserious1 - Your ex husband isn't posting here (Your comment in another thread is part of the reason why I started this one in the first place. You said you felt sorry for my husband because he took me back )

 

Tami - Your cheating / cheat(er)(ed) husband is not posting here

 

2Sunny......"this post is ooozing with judgment, we are here to help and encourage - not necessarily to judge... that is not productive for either side of the fence" EXACTLY

 

That's What I'm Talkin' Bout!!

 

I personally do not come to this site to have people tell me what a horrible person I am for cheating on my husband. They don't know what happened before, during or after the affair. AND on the other side of that coin, I do not come here to tell people that divorced their cheating spouses that they are losers & should have tried harder to save their marriage.

 

MY marriage, I believe is worth saving. Some aren't. It's just the way it is.

 

I realize that when a situation is new & still raw you feel horribly bitter. It happens (not just in the case of infidelity)

[pparrott]

We all have our own opinions. We all express them differently. But CIK does have a point in some of what she says.

[bentnotbroken]

SEEEEE...............This is what I'm talking about. THIS is why I posted this question/statement in the first place.

People judging - Why on earth would anyone come to a forum like this one & start talking to other people like THEY are the ones that hurt them.

 

Soserious1 - Your ex husband isn't posting here (Your comment in another thread is part of the reason why I started this one in the first place. You said you felt sorry for my husband because he took me back )

 

Tami - Your cheating / cheat(er)(ed) husband is not posting here

 

2Sunny......"this post is ooozing with judgment, we are here to help and encourage - not necessarily to judge... that is not productive for either side of the fence" EXACTLY

 

That's What I'm Talkin' Bout!!

 

I personally do not come to this site to have people tell me what a horrible person I am for cheating on my husband. They don't know what happened before, during or after the affair. AND on the other side of that coin, I do not come here to tell people that divorced their cheating spouses that they are losers & should have tried harder to save their marriage.

 

MY marriage, I believe is worth saving. Some aren't. It's just the way it is.

 

I realize that when a situation is new & still raw you feel horribly bitter. It happens (not just in the case of infidelity)

 

 

I for one wouldn't care whether you called me a loser or not. If that's your perception (shrugs) so be it. What people on a public forum say has no bearing on my life or the people who love me. As far as judging goes, we all do it everyday. We judge others race, gender, sexuality, SES, parenting skills, looks, weight, height, job status, illnesses, educational levels, where they live, political views, culture, height, weight, hair color, style of dress, the shows they watch and even whether they recycle. Judging the decisions in our lives is how we survive.

 

We judge our potential mates, we judge what career would best met our needs, we judge who we want our children exposed and the amount of influence others have on them. We judge if the education they receive is above or below the standard we expect. We judge relatives on whether or not they are toxic to be around.

 

So as certain people stand around a scream about being judged, remember we all do it. Judging and pronouncing judgement are 2 entirely different things. No of us has the power or the right to pronounce anything on anyone. We all judge, we all screw up, we all cover our on azzes if we think it is to our benefit. But to scream about being judged, when you judged a spouse as not worthy of fidelity or the other BS as whatever you were told by the AP they were, makes it kind of hard to hear the "CRIES OF NO FAIR" when fairness wasn't displayed until the arrow swung around in your(my)direction. If you don't believe you judge others daily, you either aren't being honest with yourself or you are living in the city and state of DENIAL, ANYWHEREINTHEWORLD.