looking for some male insight....

[Ayla]

Ok-strength I was feeling 10 minutes ago just left. Listening to my iPod and our song came on.....secret garden. He used put this on most mornings to wake us up. He used say it was about me. Deep breaths...

[catt417]

Ok Ayla, I know this is going to sound absolutly off-the-wall crazy but I almost look at men like this as men with multiple personalities. Youre right, one day they love you (and show it) the next day, they need their space, the next day, they cant live without you, and next thing you know, you are apart again and its not you, its them...Yea right, like that supposed to make you feel better!!!

 

My bf's ex wife actually thought he was bi-polar, who knows, maybe he was wishy/washy with her too and 17yrs later she had enough of it. Idk.. I do know this, V is experiencing a man like this...I dont know if they ever get better, or if you just have good streaks and bad streaks...It is an emotional rollercoaster and a rough ride at that!

 

Sometimes I think men like that are better off alone because they arent just like that with you, they are like that their whole loves...When you think about it, your ex cant be happy living like that, and neither can you. All we can do is hope that a light bulb goes on in their head and they realize they cause their own self-distruction.

 

My #1 priority is my kids right now, and unfortunatly, I needed his help and still do. I have never been in this position either. Lets hope that I am never in it again.

 

You will hear from your ex, it may be at a low point in his life, and then you have to figure it out from there. Mine tried to see if the grass is greener, and then they realize that they had good love right in front of them. Its just a matter of WHEN they realize it...

[Ayla]

But it is so true...it isn't us - it is them!!!!

 

please have a talk to him - but as i am sure you knwo by now - do it in a way that does not make him sound like he is failing....

 

Must fly - I have a meeting.

 

I hope that you have a nice night.

 

x

[VAmama]

Thanks for the kind thoughts girls. It means a lot.

 

I'm still not ready to get into it much. I am fluctuating between a lot of anger at the moment, hurt, and tears.

 

Basic version: Arrive at his place last night. He was affectionate, complimentary, playful, and talkative. We go out for dinner- he feeds me across the table, whole bit. Go to the concert, have a great time, dancing and sing along and all that. Go home, watch a little TV, go to bed.

 

Wake up in the morning, have a rather, intense, well, you know. Then he gets up to go work on his computer and I go pull out my book. He sees I want to read and gets a chair all ready for me, puts out a candle, and covers me up with a blanket to stay cozy. After an hour he suggests we take a shower together and grab some brunch.

 

We walk to brunch. I randomly started talking about how I had being doing a lot of thinking about myself and priorities and such. He listens, talks a bit about where he is with that stuff. He eventually asks about "the two yutes", ie, us. I basically tell him I don't know... I'm not sure what I want from him anymore, I see him differently, not in a bad way, just differently than when we were together. That I learned from our breakup the only person I can depend on is myself; at the end of the day I'm all I got. But that I am also content at the moment to see where things go with us and not be so focused on the outcome.

 

He said some stuff about how great I am, how beautiful, how he thinks I really don't realize or appreciate how great and special and unique I really am; that he feels or hears doubt in me at times when I talk. He said some stuff to how he feels like I have some resentment toward him at times; that he's picked up on it in something of the things I have said the past couple months. I told while I don't think I resent, I do struggle with trying to trust him again, and being vulnerable around him, and that he should know this (as I mentioned it before a while back)...

 

We walk back to his place, and I tell him how I got upset with him the week of my bday and was ready to throw in the towel. That I felt a bit taken for granted, etc. and really struggled with my feelings for him. I remember him touching the small of my back a couple times during the walk, so I felt safe telling him how I had felt.

 

We get back to his place. We both needed to rush off, as I had to get my son, and he had another showing at his rental. But, as we are about to go, he starts in with...." I don't think we can get to where we both want to be independently by being together right now" and " I don't see how any of this is going to lead us back to getting fully committed again... his gut and instinct told him this was not good thing anymore." And it just went downhill from there... first I got pissed and started storming off, which he got upset with. Then we started talking and I told him not to keep pushing me away when the going gets tough just b/c it's the easiest thing to do. He said he hoped in a year or two we would both be in a place where we could maybe reconnect. I told him no, if this was it, this was it- I was never coming back. It was over. I can never come back cause I would have no respect for myself to keep going back to a man who keeps pushing me away. I will not be his friend, I will not be his safety net the next time he gets upset and feels like there is no one else he can trust. I told him to stop taking the bull by the horns and making these unilaterial decisions. I told him pushing me away was killing any love I had for him. I told him he wasn't learning anything from continuing to push me away when he felt pressure.

 

We continued back and forth out at my car, him saying "it's like we're in a committed relationship as it is...." and me being like "how?" He said more things, things I am too upset about to even think about right now....

 

He kept on... "this is not a reflection on you or how I feel about you..... I didn't come back to you to get back together.... I can't help myself when I am around you- I will try to sleep with you.... etc." He kept saying we could have a short conversation about it or a long one, he didn't feel his feelings were going to change. I accused him of using me.... what was the point of the past 20 or so hours? Why not just do it when I showed up earlier in the evening so I didn't feel used. He said that wasn't his intention.... he wasn't planning this out. I told him it was obvious if he felt this way he had been thinking about it a bit and had been leading me a bit on by staying in contact with me and asking me out. He said that wasn't the case at all, this was just how he saw things finally, and was getting mad that I was accusing him of using me. I told him he was either a fool for pushing me away then due to his "gut" or he really had thought these things for a while and did indeed use me.

 

It finally ended with him saying something, I don't even remember what, me staring at him icily, then storming off to my car and driving away with out so much as a word.

 

That whole converstation ended up playing out over 45 mintues, but I think that was more or less the gist of it.

 

I was more or less a wreck and it took everything in my power today to hold it together when picking up my son from my ex-h's mother (whom I have a very icy relationship with) as well as to get the groceries, cook, and host my parents over for dinner (as was planned well before the drama of the day). I didn't want anyone to know I was losing it yet again over this guy...

 

I ended up calling him tonight. He answered. I was polite. He was polite. I asked him if he really meant what he said earlier in the day; if that was how he still felt? He said he was trying not to think about it; that it was upseting to him, and he was very tired, and just wanted to finish watching the movie he was viewing and go to bed. I said fine... I didn't see any point in pushing him to talk to me when he was tired and not in the correct mental state of mind to have a serious discussion, and he did sound quite drained (speaking from past expereince with him). So I told him fine, but would he call me in a few days and we could continue our conversation. He said yes, and that is where things are.

 

I think my head nows what the right thing is at this point, my heart is still fighting on it though.... and I just don't want to accept it. I need to think hard about all the possible outcomes of whenever our next conversation is, and the boundaries I need to lay for myself. I know what they are more or less, I just need to figure out how to frame them explicitly.

 

I don't get it. How can one guy be so affectionate and caring in his actions in one moment, and then turn on the dime the next.

[Ayla]

Hi V,

 

You poor thing. My thoughts are with you. I know exactly how you feel. Like Catt said about it is like they have bi-polar and become a different person....

 

Before finding this site I did some internet research on Commitment Phobes - and one of the things that it mentioned was that as soon as the CP feels that they have failed the non CP in someway, or feel that the non CP is accusing them of not doing something (in my case not saying the words I love you or telling me I looked nice) - they get "defensive" and run in the other direction. It appears to be what he has done this time. I remember reading this and it really rang a bell for me, and was so true. I am tryig to find this article written by a pshych - and as soon as I do i will post it.

 

Please try and get some sleep tonight, and do not think that any of this was your fault in any way. This is typical of a CP to destroy a good thing when they are even slightly challenged. One of the things that my friends in Hk said to me was - do not listen to his words or actions when he is like this - the real person is the one that held you, that told you all these nice things. The CP is taking over when he completely changes...

 

We are thinking of you. i am not sure if the above makes sense.

 

X

[catt417]

Hmm, I hope I say this the right way, but from what I understand you told him that you were second guessing the relationship yourself? He asked you how you felt first right?

 

That is when you told him that you are second guessing it and resent him for the "space" thing? And you told him you werent sure what you wanted from him and you can only rely on yourself?

 

Do you think, theres a possibility that he said those things to turn you into a positive direction? A, "I want this and Im sure of it" direction?

 

I know that whenever me and my bf get into a fight, he will openly admit to taking off and leaving so that he can be reassured that he IS what I want and I tell him such. Ok, its like he knows that he is wrong and he wants reassurance from you that you still want to be together.

 

I know its sounds crazy, but men are like little kids and they always need some form of stability. I think you probably said things he didnt think he was going to hear.

 

I am soooo sorry and I would feel used myself. I dont blame you for anything you said, I wouldve said the same. AND what you said made 100% complete sense. You are the more rational one and sensible one out of the 2 of you.

 

I just dont understand this guy because like you said, he did so many nice and wonderful things, didnt he think that you would get upset? Did he think you were going to enjoy the evening and say thanks, Ill see you around?

 

The only way I can make sense out of this is that either he wanted one last enjoyable evening with you for his own selfishness, or he is pulling away to get you to come on stronger...Either way it is cruel and selfish..

 

V-I think you should tell this guy that he is playing cruel and harsh games with you and what have you done? other than love him, to deserve this? And his getting back together in a year or two was just his way of trying to get you to beg or plead, or get over him within that time frame..

 

Who knows what he wants...I dont even think he does. I think you would save yourself more time and heartache if you just told this guy to stick it where the sun dont shine and that you are too good for this. I know its not what you wanna hear, but he is just preventing you from being with someone that will love you the way you should be loved.

 

I should talk, I called my bf tonight just to have him tell me that he will do what he wants, when he wants and if I love him I should understand...I told him if he loved me, he wouldnt be such an a**. He said we shouldnt be together then and I told him how dare he treat me like some piece of a** that he just met yesterday. V-I think you should tell yours the same thing...

[Ayla]

I am thinking of both of you. I hope your ok. I think your right Catt-I don't think they even know what they want.

 

I am beginning to think that my ex-respects me more by leaving me alone, and that he knows he is f***ed up and I would be better of without him. I do think he will contact me at some point, but I think that is also part of the reason on top of the other reasons discussed.

 

I reallyhope you are both ok.

 

X

[catt417]

Aww Ayla, you are sooo sweet. I hope that you are ok. I will be alright. I just give him his crap right back...and he has always said he was sorry. If he doesnt this time, I am better off without him. Sure it will hurt, but when do all of us realize that love is unconditional, love is not just when they feel right about it, it remains to be love, no matter what. I think we ALL need to remember that. I hope everyone has a better day and better days to come. God bless the both of you, and myself...I need it.

[VAmama]

Girls, hang in there. I am having a ROLLERCOASTER of a day.... my emotions are all over the place. I took the day off from work, just not to stress myself much, tho I need to get out of the house now or I will go batty.

 

All I can say is I am swinging all over the place.... anger, frustration, hurt to wanting to be patient, stick with it, and fight him on this for a change. The only thing I keep telling myself is just to ride it for now, feel the emotions- but do nothing.

 

I don't even know if I will pick up the phone if and when he calls now. Part of me feels that I need the space and I will call him when I am ready- be it a day, a month, or 6 months from now. I can't continue to hurt like this; I am back to a similar place I was a year ago. The other part of me is saying I need to man up, take his call when it comes, and just go with it. Not fight him on it anymore, and just move on.

 

I think what I really need is a good long time of being single again...

[VAmama]

Hmm, I hope I say this the right way, but from what I understand you told him that you were second guessing the relationship yourself? He asked you how you felt first right?

 

Um.... more or less I guess. I was telling him just that I don't know what I want from him or us at the moment, so I am fine with being in the moment without a formal commitment. Just as long as we understood some boundaries.

 

That is when you told him that you are second guessing it and resent him for the "space" thing? And you told him you werent sure what you wanted from him and you can only rely on yourself?

 

No, I didn't tell him I resented him for the space thing. I did tell him I felt like it was a slap in the face when he accused me of putting expectations on him, when I felt like I was just kind of following his lead in terms of the level of interaction.

 

I did tell him that through him and my ex before him that I had learned that all I can really count on is myself. That I can't be dependent on other people for my happiness. He said something to the effect of " I wish I could be a more stable presence in your life" around this time.

Do you think, theres a possibility that he said those things to turn you into a positive direction? A, "I want this and Im sure of it" direction?

 

I don't think so. I think he heard me express some uphappiness and it caused him to feel fear and expectations....

 

I know that whenever me and my bf get into a fight, he will openly admit to taking off and leaving so that he can be reassured that he IS what I want and I tell him such. Ok, its like he knows that he is wrong and he wants reassurance from you that you still want to be together.

 

This is perhaps what happened a few weeks ago around my bday. This time, I am not so sure. The only difference tho, is that he seemed somewhat surprised that I told him if it was over now, it was over forever, that I would never come back out of a need for my own self-preservation.

 

I know its sounds crazy, but men are like little kids and they always need some form of stability. I think you probably said things he didnt think he was going to hear.

 

Maybe. My guy, toward the very end, was saying stuff like " you are the one stable thing in my life and I can't have that... " etc., etc.

 

I am soooo sorry and I would feel used myself. I dont blame you for anything you said, I wouldve said the same. AND what you said made 100% complete sense. You are the more rational one and sensible one out of the 2 of you.

 

I just dont understand this guy because like you said, he did so many nice and wonderful things, didnt he think that you would get upset? Did he think you were going to enjoy the evening and say thanks, Ill see you around?

 

Yeah, seriously. It was such a 180 and it completely threw me. I mean.... he was kissing my back, rubbing my arm and back, all the way to the point where we walked into his unit, we set down our stuff, and he looked at me and started in with " I don't think...."

 

The only way I can make sense out of this is that either he wanted one last enjoyable evening with you for his own selfishness, or he is pulling away to get you to come on stronger...Either way it is cruel and selfish..

 

V-I think you should tell this guy that he is playing cruel and harsh games with you and what have you done? other than love him, to deserve this? And his getting back together in a year or two was just his way of trying to get you to beg or plead, or get over him within that time frame..

 

I did the tell him I deserved more than this, after all I had given of myself to him, that I deserved more respect than a rushed conversation.

 

He kept saying... maybe we need to risk it all to get back to where we were"

Who knows what he wants...I dont even think he does. I think you would save yourself more time and heartache if you just told this guy to stick it where the sun dont shine and that you are too good for this. I know its not what you wanna hear, but he is just preventing you from being with someone that will love you the way you should be loved.

 

No, he knows he doesn't know what he wants. He thinks he will want to commit to me again in time, but he feels right now that he is unhappy with himself and until he feels better about himself, he will not be in a position to commit. But he also knows if he lets go of me one last time, he will lose me for good this time.

 

I should talk, I called my bf tonight just to have him tell me that he will do what he wants, when he wants and if I love him I should understand...I told him if he loved me, he wouldnt be such an a**. He said we shouldnt be together then and I told him how dare he treat me like some piece of a** that he just met yesterday. V-I think you should tell yours the same thing...

 

Yeah, that is bs too. It's abusive and manipulative and one-sided, just like my man. I am so tempted just to be bitter and really tell him what I think of his behavior if, when we eventually talk, he still lacks the courage to continue to see this through. But then I waffle between that and wanting to be dignified and graceful and not be that person...

[catt417]

I know V, its a lose/lose situation. You stop communication and then all you want to do is call and talk, and if you keep communicating it hurts because you dont hear what you want to hear.

 

Im so sorry that there are 3 of us going through this crap. But I think Ayla said the right thing by taking it one day at a time.

 

Yet, you have to be honest about how you feel, and if you are mad, you can tell him you are mad and hold your dignity and respect while doing such. Even though I dont always do that...LOL

 

In situations like this, I have to constantly remind myself of how I had a life before I met him, a happy life, and I will eventually go back to that happy life after he is gone. I am like you V, I stay single and want nothing to do with men, for a least a couple of years, after a break-up. It will give you time to collect your thoughts and get back on track.

 

Good luck girls, keep me posted....Not to preach, but God will help see you through this. He always gives us signs of trouble, it is up to us what we do with them.

[Ayla]

Good morning-well evening to you. I think that the three guys we love honestly do not understand how their actions really hurt us, or maybe they do but they can't control what goes on in their mind when they do the 180. It is just so strange when they do it-V in terms of not being able to understand the change, I know exactly how you feel. 2 days before we broke up (as you know) mine was doing the same thing and saying beautiful things.

 

Gee I miss him so much. Last night I had this really vivid dream that felt so real. In the dream he got into bed with me and said "why does this feel so right" and cuddled me so tight. What woke me up was that I honestly thought he was there...and he wasn't. But girls seriously I felt him there! Really weird.

 

We can do this ladies. It is not our fault they are the way they are, and I am sure that they are all actually really nice people-well I know mine is...and I am quite sure they love us, but they have this switch that unless they get help, they can't control...a freak switch. Which is what makes it so sad.

 

Like I said, one day at a time ok.

 

X

[catt417]

Ayla, I have had dreams like that too, its strange. I have also had dreams where I heard him say my name, and he was nowhere in sight...Yet, I heard him say my name loudly and it would wake me, yet I was by myself. Or you can actually feel them holding you soooo tight, that you can physically feel it in your own mind..

 

Mine called me today to tell me that called about a house for rent. He said the lady is supposed to call him back because "we" were very interested. Yet, he is still over at his brothers doing God knows what. Now what do you say to a man that acts like your on the same page, but doesnt come home? Talk about weird!!!

 

I think your right, I think all 3 of these men are quite capable of loving us....I think they are just scared of it so they bury themselves, into themselves...kinda like they are afraid to say forever because it is too early in their minds. The scary thing for me is that mine is 48 years old (doesnt look it) and HE hasnt had enough fun yet!!! He is really mad that I told him to grow up and keep doing so..Yet none of his friends can hold a relationship because guess what? They think about themselves, themselves, and themselves. Its pathetic.

 

I seriously think the dumber a girl is, the more the guy is into her. I think men love a stupid woman that will let him walk all over her and she loves him all the more after he is done doing such..Because it seems the minute a smart girl opens her mouth and expresses any form of negative or dislike, hes gotta run in the other direction...

 

I should know, I have an ex that was in the marines, he loved being in Taiwan because he said the women over there would literally do anything to please a man. ANYTHING!!! He had a girl over there that he could tell to do this or do that, and it was done on his command. Its a power trip in situations like that...in situations like ours, its almost a power struggle..They dont want anyone to answer to, to be considerate to, or just plain compromise with.

 

Do you understand what I am saying? At least in my situation, I know he wants to call all the shots...Im not the type to take it lying down. Stand up for yourselves girls!!!

[VAmama]

I

 

Good luck girls, keep me posted....Not to preach, but God will help see you through this. He always gives us signs of trouble, it is up to us what we do with them.

 

So funny Catt417.... I was thinking that same thing this afternoon. I'm not really religious or anything, but I was thinking "what is the lesson in this? What am I suppose to be learning here? What don't I see? Am I suppose to learn how to let go (yet again?)- and for good this time?"

 

It's hard. My ex before the current guy ended up cheating on me with someone 17 years his junior and in college still. Tore me apart, broke-up our home. I was devestated, and scared to death of being a single mother. It took me 7 months to extract myself from that situation.... and quite some time to heal from it. He ended up wanting to try to work things out just after I moved on and started dating my current guy. Funny tho... he is still with the girl he cheated on me with. 4 years later now. Never thought it would last... the cheating more or less was due to his fears of commitment and not wanting to be responsable for a family....

 

Anyways, I guess the point is... I went through all that, why am I basically kind of going through it again? What's the point? Why? Where is the lesson? What can I possibly gain any more from going through this yet again?

 

Sigh. I wish I knew the answers. It would make it so much easier to understand what is the right thing to do, and where to put my attention and focus.

[Ayla]

Mine is 37 - and I thought he had his head screwed on, he is so smart and so clever and has a great set of friends and lovely familiy - yet he just can't get his act together with us. Now looking back at it, I can see the signs of commitment phobia - and it does give me some peace - but like V, I am wondering what is the lesson here???

 

None of us are doormats, none of us are bad people, we treat the men we love well - yet like V this is not the first relationship where the man has commitment problems. Actually this is my third....and funnily enough both of the other 2 admited that they still love me and made a mistake!!!!!

 

In regards to dreams - I think there is more to them, but what that is I do not know. I do not think this was a wishful thinking dream - it was to real and vivid. I could feel his heat, the hair on his legs. I wish he would email or call....

 

V how are you today???

[catt417]

Well, V and Ayla, I have been through this before as well. Almost every guy that I dated started to care when it was a little too late..I have dated men that took me for granted over and over again. I can honestly say, that I have not had someone dump me before, except for this guy.

 

Which is what got me thinking. Ok, most of my relationships have lasted at least 3 years. After 3 years or so of putting up with their crap and getting more and more sick of it, I would dump them. They would get suicidal and couldnt live without me to the point that I had to get restraint orders a couple of times. The point Im trying to make is when I put up with their crap, even though I bitched about it, they couldve cared less. It was when I actually started to withdraw from the situation that I saw them grasping for a tighter grip. That was when I saw them pleaing and desperatly trying to get me to stay with them.

 

The guy I am with now does this to me, even though I am not the one that is wrong. Whenever he does something crappy to me, he immediatly withdraws and he finds me grasping for a tighter grip, even if it is to get the explanation I feel I deserve. I can almost guarantee you that if he would stick around after he pulls his crap, I would have dumped him too by now..

 

I am coming to the point of trying to say maybe this is the lessen that needs to be learned. I think maybe all 3 of us have let these men know that no matter what they do, we will be there grasping for a tighter grip. Maybe its time to withdraw from the situation, and let them try to do some grasping for a change...or maybe its gotten beyond that point? Do either of you understand what I am trying to say? Its like they know WE are GOOD girls, they know we have put up with some stuff that maybe we shouldnt have and they know we will still be there. Maybe they feel as if the thrill is over...Do you know how many times Ive heard of guys leaving a good girl for a girl that they complain about being such a b**ch? Why is that? Is it because the bi**h is always challenging him?

 

I guess after a while, anyone that feels like things are too easy may become bored with the situation? Maybe these men have just plain had it too easy...Maybe they feel like we dont have enough respect for ourselves to say, look, I am too good for this. Thus leading to him thinking, I dont need her, shes not good enough.

 

Why is it that we have a hard time being without them and they come and go as they please? I told mine tonight that real love doesnt leave, it sticks around. I think that says it all, regardless of the situation.

[Ayla]

I don't think they become bored of the situation/relationship - I think it is more that they feel like we are trying to change them, to make them lose their independance....which is not true....so if they move on generally it is onto someone who will bend to their every whim and not ask them to "change".

 

Yes we might want them back and do things to encourage that - but I think that is different. Someone wrote about it on another thread that I wrote a few weeks ago.

 

Catt - I hope that you are ok. V - how are you holding up?

 

Me - I'm still here. I found a place to move into - which is great!!!! Still no word from him...and that dream is still on my mind....it was so real, I can not explain it.

 

Anyway - I hope you are both ok.

x

[VAmama]

Oh yes.... the "trapped" accusations. My guy has thrown every single excuse at me in regard to that "feeling". I hate it.

 

At some point Sunday.... he was like "I feel like we are bf/gf. I can't date anyone else, so it basicly is like that" I was like "how?" "You are not my bf. My bf calls me every day. He sees me frequently. He takes me out with his friends and family." I told him " I am single. If people ask me, that's what I say." And yet, he's still trapped....

 

Anyways, how am I today? Mornings are always the time I feel the lowest, have been since all this drama started 9 months ago, so I am at least cognizant of it and know I need to resist the urge to contact and get some temporary fix. But I am okay. Trying to keep busy. I have not heard from him yet, but I didn't expect to. He was in a class till 10pm last night. Tonight I am, so I don't expect to hear from him either. I suspect he may call Wednesday night, as he is leaving the area Thursday morning for his weekend out West, but I am uncertain at this point if I will take his call. I am tempted not to answer or respond and just tell him I was "out" and will talk to him when he gets back. Problem is... he gets back, and it's the same story. Monday he has class. Tues I have class. Wed I know he has concert tickets. Thursday? Maybe? Who knows...

 

I am tempted to tell him off. How dare he think he can go out for one last fling at debauchary while it's still exusable (he's in his mid 30's...) and then settle down for me after it's out of his system. How dare he think I would wait for him. How dare he think I would keep coming back to him every time he pushes me away when he feels overwhelmed, confused, and it seems like I'm the most expendable part of his life. I asked him "So what happens when you let me go again and then 4, 5 months down the line you hit another rough patch, feel all alone, can't trust anyone. Who you going to turn to? Who do you trust more than me? " He said "No one, maybe my Mom." And I just said " I won't be there for you anymore."

 

I think he was shocked to hear that... hear that I would never entertain again being with him. That his "safety net" would be gone.

 

When we started reconciling again back in March, he was all like " I feel better about myself. I'm feeling more confident. I'm not there yet, but I feel like I am getting close." and then " I am so attracted to the thought of you as a life partner, of not dating and just commiting fully to us. If we do this, I want it to be forever.... " WTF? Two months later, just b/c I express some doubts now he wants to throw in the towel...? It got to the point in the end where he was like " I want to date other people." I got SOOOO angry- and honestly don't know whether to believe him or not. He's the type of guy that will just say things, hurtful things, grasp at straws, just when he feels trapped, overwhelmed, and wants an out. The eventually recants. I don't know if he means it or just wanted to hurt me to end the coversation.

 

Ugh. The more I think it about it, the more I think I am better off w/o someone who will treat me this way. That there must be something seriously sick with me if I keep holding out hope here. I just don't get how he turns on a dime....

 

I know he was upset Sunday night though. I could hear it in his voice. Same tone and lack of energy that I heard in him when he came to me confused and lost back in December.... Don't know if it means anything. Don't know if he even cares and is just burying it all now...

 

Sorry, rambling. Hope you girls are okay today. :-) Hugs.

[VAmama]

Honestly..... I just am not ready to talk to him. I don't know if I will be any time in the near future. I feel if I do, I will really be harsh and while I think it is deserved, I don't feel it will allow me to maintain my dignity.

 

I do not know how long I will feel like this at the moment. Could just be a couple days. A couple weeks. A couple months. Never. I don't know. I just want to walk away for the moment, give myself some space and time to clear my head and see things for how they really are. I don't care what he does in this time. I have no intention any longer of being loyal to him (not that I'm going to go out and have dates every night, I just won't turn down the opportunities anymore....) I was getting back to a happy place with myself before he came back to me in Dec., and it's been drama ever since. I'm tired and just want my peace of mind back.

 

So, the question is... when if he even calls, do I even pick up? What if I don't? What message does that send? Or should I pick up, and just state the above? The problem for me is, I feel if I even just state the above, it will cause me to continue (I'm worth more than this, I'm not some fricking puppet, I'm not an obligation, all respect I have for him is gone at this point in time and if this continues on, I know I will feel nothing but bitterness towards him... ).

 

What would you advise?

[catt417]

Dont pick up, dont be so available. If you pick up and say that, hes gonna think youve been sitting at home thinking about it over and over. Let it ring and let him think that you have been doing anything other than thinking about it...Let him think that you are unavailable. You know that when he calls, it will be because he was thinking about it at that moment. You said you wont always be there for him, why not let him fear your words and start now? My ex used to look for me when I didnt answer his calls. Let him wonder what you are doing, for a change...

[Ayla]

I have come to realise that I am not the best person to give advice on this. The reason being is that I know mine loves me and is thinking about me - yet he does not call, does not do anything. Nothing I have done (including leaving him alone, sending him a friendly non pushy email etc) has prompted him to contact me. Despite him promising that he would reply to any email or phone call that I made. So clearly I do not knwo what i am doing.

 

Having a bit of a bad morning I think. To add to that i think my friend in Hong Kong are pulling away from me - and that hurts too.....I do not know what I did wrong there.

 

For my 2 cents worth though - I would go with Catts advice - don't answer...and maybe a few hours later message him and tell him you were busy.

 

Actually - really bad day.

[VAmama]

I have come to realise that I am not the best person to give advice on this. The reason being is that I know mine loves me and is thinking about me - yet he does not call, does not do anything. Nothing I have done (including leaving him alone, sending him a friendly non pushy email etc) has prompted him to contact me. Despite him promising that he would reply to any email or phone call that I made. So clearly I do not knwo what i am doing.

 

Having a bit of a bad morning I think. To add to that i think my friend in Hong Kong are pulling away from me - and that hurts too.....I do not know what I did wrong there.

 

For my 2 cents worth though - I would go with Catts advice - don't answer...and maybe a few hours later message him and tell him you were busy.

 

Actually - really bad day.

 

Awwwwhhhh honey, hang in there. Are you sure your friend isn't just busy and preoccupied with life? I know I get that way sometimes with my friends.....

 

And as for your guy.... you know how it is. You can't really listen to anything they say. He may WANT to respond to you, but he can't because of his fears and walls. But you know that right? You know it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with him. No matter how much he loves you, his fear prevents him from responding...

 

As for me... I went out tonight just to have a glass of wine and a small meal down the street from home. Ended up having a great time talking with these two guys- old friends from the air force. While I was chatting with them the guy I ran into 3 weeks ago who is mutual friends with an old high school friend of mine walked in as well. And.... my guy called as well. He didn't leave a message, just saw a missed call from him. I did not call back.

 

It may be superficial, but tonight reminded me that there is more to life than my guy and other men find me equally desirable. A short term boost to my self confidence. Now.... just to handle my man. Do I keep avoiding, or do I talk?

[catt417]

V- thats great that you went out and had a good time!!! Im happy for you and Im glad that you werent around to answer the phone. NO, dont call back. Lets see how long it is before he calls you again to see what you were doing when he called. Let him wonder why you didnt call back tonight, was she out on a date? Did she spend the night elsewhere? If you call back tonight, he will know that you came home from wherever and he became the main attraction, yet again. Leave it alone for now...You know he isnt going to say anything that is going to make everything else go away at this moment...so leave it...If anything, wait a couple of days, see if he calls, if he doesnt, call him back and be real casual about it. "Oh, I see that you called a couple of days ago, Im sorry but I have been really busy lately, whats on your mind?" I am 100% sure that is the best possible answer I can give you right now. It isnt playing games, its merely giving him what he wanted, and see if he can deal with the way it is going to be...

 

Ayla, my little sweetie, Im sorry you are having such a bad day...My thought is its time to pick up the phone and call. Get some kind of resolution or some kind of closure. You had nothing to lose by sending the email, and you have nothing to lose if you call. I think V is right, he may be scared to death to call...He may be scared to email, he may be afraid that once he opens that door (even an email) that you may start to lash out at him for the way hes treated you. Call him honey and just ask him why he hasnt responded and how he is feeling about the whole situation. Get the answers to the questions you have....I cant see you going on like this, you keep saying that he will eventually respond, but what if he doesnt? What if you are waiting another month from now? V did it and is trying to sort it all out, you should too. Things cannot stay in the grey area forever, they are black or white...theres no "in between". Let me know what you decide.

[VAmama]

HI Catt417- How are things with you today? How is the packing going? Did you find a place yet? I know, as stressful as moving is, it does help a bit to get your mind of your guy. My guy and I took a break back in Jan and on Feb 1st I moved.... it was stressful too, but I was glad for the distraction, as well as some time to reflect. And I poured my energy into setting up a nice, clean, new home for my son and I.

 

I suspect my ex will call again tonight. As I mentioned, he leaves to go out of town tomorrow at 11am and won't be back till 10pm Sunday. Last night I attached a "silent" ring to his number so that I wouldn't be tempted to pick up the phone when he calls. I will keep it that way tonight. Tomorrow I will just drop him a line saying we should get together next Tuesday or Thursday evening when I have some free time.

 

The thing is.... i am really beginning to believe I need to let go. For my sake AND his. I can't force him to stay. If he wants to be gone, so be it. This isn't healthy and is toxic and we are really starting to hurt one another now. If there is ever a chance for a successful reconciliation down the road ( and I mean, down the road- a year or more, at minimum) I am begining to believe we need this time apart.

 

My fear is.... he will not do those things he truly needs to do to feel better about himself, and as such, will never be able to be in a healthy, committed relationship. And as such.... we will never be able to be again. He keeps saying he needs to go out and make friends, explore his interests and hobbies, etc., ..... but I am begining to view that as just one more distraction, one more way he is trying to fill the void within himself and avoid his insecurities. He is terribly insecure, though tries his hardest to but on this fraudlent front that he is anything but. He is not addressing his core issues.... why he feels insecure, why commitment and family terrify him and cause him to feel trapped. Why he can't be happy with just being...

 

But, I doubt he will ever be able to do the work he needs to b/c it means he really needs to start being honest with himself and looking hard internally at himself, and face some unpleasant truths. That's a difficult thing to do, and I doubt he has the strength or bravery to do it. It is easier to avoid and perpetually do those things that offer instant gratification, but no real long term solution (serially dating, having a wide group of "friends" but no close friends, etc). And he refuses to see a therapist to help him, so he bottles it inside and it does no good...

 

I know my fear is that if I let go, it is over for good. B/c if he can't do the work, I know I can't go back, b/c it will just turn out again like it has now. And I don't know what the future holds, and it's scary. It's scary to think of being alone again for a significant period of time. I don't mind being alone much of the time, but I know I will miss having someone to call and share my day with. I fear nights upon nights sleeping alone, of never trusting myself to ever fall in love again the way I did with my guy. In some ways, as much turmoil as this it, it is somewhat my safety too....

 

 

But I know to let go means I need to embrace all those fears... that he will never get better, so we can never be. That I will be alone for a good time until I find someone truly worthy of me. That I got to be strong and stable all on my own yet again in my life, and have no one to fall back on. I don't know that I have the strength to keep doing it.... I know I have SOOO much going for me, yet I can't undestand why I keep going back to this place.

 

So that's where my head is today. Opps- just got a call from my son's school.

[catt417]

V- I understand EXACTLY how you feel. Different circumstances, yet similiar men. Everything you said makes complete sense and I can sympathize with you. It seems like men like this are always looking for something to fill a "void" and we are left with wondering what that "void" is they are trying to fill . Its very hard to understand why they cant be happy with us and fix whatever they need to fix with the support that they have from us.

 

A little history about my bf..He was married for 17 years and his whole world fell apart when he got a divorce. It killed him not being with his kids every day, it killed him financailly, and emotionally. He has been divorced for about 7 years and blames ever stinkin one of his problems on his divorce, not realizing that he has been the one to cause them. He too, feels as if there is something missing, that he cant fix, no matter how hard he tries. He is not happy with where he is in life.

 

He has had serious money problems due to paying out child support and having alot of bills. I understood 100%, at first. As the years have gone by, I have seen him spend money foolishly and still blame his financial problems on his divorce. He keeps telling me that maybe if he wasnt with me, he would get where he wanted to be(financially) and its not fair to put that on me. I respond by telling him he shouldnt blow his money like he does and he responds by saying that all of his money is shelled out, what little money he has left should be used to making himself happy.(I agree to some extent) I respond by saying that if he wants to have a relationship, extra money should be used towards a future, instead of being thrown away. Again, he apologizes and tells me he wants to be together but maybe we shouldnt be right now, but maybe we when he takes care of some of his bills, we can be together.

 

Believe me, I am not about men and their money or I wouldnt have been with him for three years. However, when I see him taking trips to florida, west virginia, and wherever else he may go..I cant help but think, who is this man to tell me that maybe we shouldnt be together until he gets his finances together, yet when we are together he makes no attempt to get them together? You and I both know that it would only get worse if I wasnt around.

 

We have broken up several times over this issue. But, he always comes back, tells me he loves me so much because I am the only one who tells him how it is to his face, and makes him see the mistakes he is making.

 

I guess my point is that I know, just like you said, he would be the same in any other realtionship, and if he was alone, he wouldnt make the changes he needed to make. Thats why I keep going and going, I am convinced that one day, I will be the one to make him change and stop making excuses, stop feeling sorry for himself.

 

He was here last night telling me that he would cash in some of his vacation from work to give me money towards getting a new place. All I could do is look at him and say, "No, I dont want anything from you, you shouldve thought about all of this when you said you wanted to live together and "had fun" with your money." He said that he was sorry he felt as if he had dragged me down with him, and I told him that this has to change and change now. No more of this crap, or its over. Get over the past, and start thinking of your future.

 

I would ask your ex, why he feels that he cant make the necessary changes that he wants to make while you are together? How is it that you are holding him back? If anything doesnt he think that you would support him and be there for him?

 

I think youre right, its excuse after excuse. The excuses need to stop. He cant tamper with someones feelings because he is unhappy with himself. My ex could go to Hawaii and back, is that going to change reality? No, he doesnt realize that it only makes it worse.

 

Does your ex think that new friends is going to change his life? I cant understand the logic!!!