looking for some male insight....

[Ayla]

Hello,

 

V-how did it go????? I hope it went well for you. It would be nice if all of us had happy endings with our commitment phobes. Although I am not getting hopes up. I am well aware that my ex is far behind in terms of understanding his problem and not reaching out to me....

 

I can imagine Catt saying-we will all have happy endings, just maybe with someone else. Which is true too, but I would like a happy ending with my CP...just between you and I. However if not him, someone better will come along.

 

I'm off to work now-second day. Hope you all have a wonderful evening.

[VAmama]

So, it went... okay.

 

We hung out for awhile just watching TV, chit-chatting, and flirting- I guess just trying to re-establish our familiarity. I was kind of standoffish for awhile when I first got there. When we went to bed, we started talking. He basically just said that after he calmed down and had a bit of time to reflect, he thought I was really mad at him, and that was why he didn't attempt to contact me beyond the texts. I did say some pretty harsh things that evening.... that I thought I deserved better, that I was out there looking and a big part of me wanted to leave him and our situation, etc. He said he figured if I felt like that, maybe I needed some space too sort out my feelings and that he was more or less looking to me to reestablish contact if I felt I wanted to continue things. He said he was surprised I didn't contact him for a week, that he thought it was very unlike me, and thought maybe indeed I was moving on.

 

He still is hesitant to be more open with his family and close friends about us reconciling at this point in time, though he understands my perspective. Said he doesn't want to get his family's hopes up before he feels more certain and stable about himself, and as a consequence, us. Also said he didn't want to feel pressure from his family to reconcile with me; he wants this to be solely b/c it's something he feels good about and wants, not for anyone else. He did tell me he told his Mom he was over to dinner at my place last month (and his Mom indirectly confirmed this to me last week when she emailed me about my son's bday), so I guess that is a baby step in the right direction. He also did point out that he did introduce me to some new guy friends he has made lately, which is true. One of the things that has been bothering him is that he doesn't have a lot of guy friends in the area anymore to hang out with and has been attempting to do activities where he can meet and make friends with guys his age. I told him I could respect his feelings for now, since it really has only been 2 months and it's not like I'm dragging him out to events with my friends or family either, but also told him if we continue on the course we've been going through the summer, I am looking for him open with his family and friends, and to allow me more active participation in all aspects of his life by Labor Day (as well as vice versa- he needs to participate in activities with my friends and family as well).

 

So that's kind of it for now. I asked him if he wanted to do something Monday after we both pull back into town, and he said he thought that was a good idea. So I suppose the saga continues.

[VAmama]

Frans420-

 

Your advice sounds a lot like that guy who has the infomercials online about "how to get your ex back" and most of which I think is a crock of...

 

Thanks, but I really don't think the advice is anymore than what has already been given (NC/less contact/be less available/be mysterious- whatever you want to call it). Additionally, if I did that "gee, hi ex whom I am already in the midst of reconciling with... I need to thank you for something.... call me." I mean really... come on. It might peak his interest momentarily.... until he caught on I was gaming him or not being myself. That is not ANYTHING like I would do and he would know it.

 

I realize I came too close to comfort and backed away and questioned if this is a situation I still want. We're over it now and moving on. No "strategy" needed other than to continue living my life and making myself happy first and foremost.

 

And yes, my ex is afraid to commit. He admits it. He has dumped every girl he has ever been with in his life, and left me high and dry 2 years into our relationship when we started talking marriage for a bs reason. Eventually came back around and admitted he's afraid. So no, I don't think I am oversimplfying.

[catt417]

Way to go VAmama, you said it all! I recognized his post from "how to get your ex back", or at least its something like that. I was just commenting on that and then your post came through.

 

Although I think he was trying to be helpful, I agree that would be really stupid if you called your ex and did as mentioned. I think you should call him and thank him for needing time to himself while your at it...LOL.. Thank him for being scared of commitment, geez, whatever you can thank him for to spark his interest...Lmao

 

I HATE those stupid articles, its just someone else trying to make a buck selling a book. While your at it, you should by the book a man wrote about being a commitment phobe but women have changed him from that. Are you familiar with that one?

 

Please, I think that these resorts are for people that are sooo lost and desperate, and it is pathetic to do these things. Could you imagine???

 

Although, I do think your intentions were good. VA mamas doing just fine on her own.

[Ayla]

Yeah i think it was a crock of s**t too. V - I do not think you/we are over simplifying the situation/s at all!!! It is a genuine problem and not something to be taken lightly.

 

I am glad that the other night seemed to go well. Slow and steady wins the race. It is good that he is talking to you, and being open with you - as much as a CP can be.

 

Now I have a question for you lovely ladies...

During the last conversation i had with my ex - i told him that I hated him, that he should be ashamed to be the person that he is, that I could not believe that he would do such a thing to me and that is going to grow to be a sad and lonely man, and that he was immature, and for a smart man he was very dumb. All of this was said out of hurt and anger over how he had treated me....not sure if you have read my threads about the full situation???

 

4 weeks ago - I messaged him on facebook whilst his was inactive and sleeping and said "Hi, not sure if you got my letter. I do not hate you, I said that out of hurt and anger. I miss you and would love to speak with you. Hope you are ok. Goodnight x" and I heard nothing back...that was 4 weeks ago. Should I take the first step and contact him again, incase he is too scared to contact me cos of how he hurt me and what i said?????

 

If you can let me know your thoughts.

[catt417]

Hi Ayla,

 

I think that is up to you to contact him. If you did, you could tell him you wanted to know how he was doing and ask how he feels about all that has happened between you. That way, you leave the ball in his court. He could tell you that hes sorry and hes unhappy without you or say that he is fine with everything...But, at least then you will have your answer.

 

I have said soo many things when I was angry, it is a common thing when you are hurt. But, its hard to tell if someone is saying something because they are mad, or if they are real feelings that person has been holding in for a long time. You know what I mean? Its also easy to feel hatred towards someone who you feel is ripping your heart out and stomping on it over and over again.

 

If you feel the need, call him, you might up getting the answers that you need or you may get that closure you need to forget about him and move on.

 

Let us know what you decide to do and good luck. I know you are suffering and you have been so strong and brave through all of this. And whatever happens, we are here for you.

[VAmama]

Ayla.... while I would agree reaching out to him may provide him the closure you seek, I would also suggest you think long and hard about whether or not you are really ready to handle WHATEVER could happen. Yes, maybe your ex will pick up the phone and talk to you (or email you back, whichever method you prefer). But what if he doesn't respond, or what if he tells you some things you may not want to hear.... are you emotionally prepared for that yet? If you are, then yes, contact him. But if not.... I would wait.

 

If your ex is a mature man, he will realize you were saying those things out of frustration and hurt. It happens. I've done it, and others have done it to me. Though, I would agree with Catt417 that sometimes those things said in anger and in the heat of the moment are not so far from the truth....

 

Either way, your ex could just chalk your words up to hurt. OR.... he may think you genuinely mean them, and perhaps he is wondering if your accusations about him are indeed true. I know when people have accused me of things, even though it angered me, I wondered if there wasn't some truth behind it. Maybe you saying those things wasn't so bad, and you don't have to run off and apologize about it (esp. if it is indeed more than partially true). I'm sure if you meant anything to your ex, and said those things, he is ego is indeed damaged and he is wondering if those things are true. It could perhaps some of the reasons behind his reckless behavior right now... an attempt to avoid and deny the ugly truth about himself, you know?

 

I guess those are my words of advice. Think really hard about whether or not you are ready for contact yet. If you don't think you can handle whatever the outcome is- stay in NC. Breaking NC can be a temprorary, self-gratifying relief, but often leads to further heartache too (I speak from experience here).

 

As for me... nothing new to report. I have no urge to contact the ex, and will not till I get back on Monday. We'll see if he contacts me before then, though I don't expect him to, as he'll be out of town as well. Guess I'm in an odd spot.... I know I enjoy spending time with him, but, well, at the moment, when I'm not with him, I feel, well, indifferent. I don't know if this is good or bad. I don't see him as the same man as when I fell in love with him and we were a couple. While in some ways that humanizes him and takes him off his pedestal, where I often felt inferior to him, now... I'm like, well, grow up! Cry me a river- oh poor you. So confused. So lonely. Boo-hoo-hoo. How do you think I felt when I was 24, alone, and pregnant? How do you think I felt after I separated from my son's father and was working a low paying job with a three year old child dependent on me? (another reconcilation gone bad that happened after our son was born) Seriously. If he gets this upset and turned upside down about his friends moving away and commitment, I have to wonder what it's going to be like when he really faces something difficult- and illness or loss of a loved one. It's too the point where I actually feel more superior than him, stronger than him... it's odd how the tables have reveresed.

 

Sorry, rambling there. Ayla, keep us updated on what you plan to do!

[Ayla]

Thanks ladies. See here is where the problem lies-I have no doubt that he knows that some of them are true. The last time we spoke when I said those things to me, his reply was "I am a c**t, I know I am a c**t." at the end of the conversation when I told him that one day I would like a real apology, he said "ok, but I know you don't believe me but I am sorry I wasn't strongerfor you, I am sorry I wasnt stronger for us" and I said you are right I don't believe you. My friends belive that he is really embarrassed and knows he hurt me and that is why he hasn't contacted me. Additionally friends of mine and ours think that it is really weird he still has not contacted me.

 

Of course he knows he treated me badly. I moved from Australia to hong kong to be with him. He moved there 6 months before me. We broke up suddenly just over a year after I moved there on a wednesday, he stayed in a hotel for a few nights. I didn't hear from him until the Sunday when we agreed to meet up. He was 1.5 hours late-he let me know. I pushed him to tell me he didn't love me-but he didn't. Stayed 4 half an hour, then I left. Later that afternoon I found out he slept with someone the night before and that is why he was late. Just sex. And it is that conversation where I said all the stuff I mentioned earlier. So not including the day we broke up (where he cried and hugged me and wouldn't let me go) I have only spoken with him twice (both on the same day) a day where he was so cold and mean. I left HK the next day.

 

I know why we broke up and why it was so sudden, but I am so unsure if I should speak to him. He knows he is some of the things I said, and he knows he treated me badly. I just would like to speak with him, cos I know he is struggling too-but I do not even know what I would say. I know he is working late hours every night, going out a lot, drinking a lit and he is not seeing anyone.

 

Please help me.

 

Sorry for the ramble. V-you are so strong!!

[Ayla]

I know you guts prob are wondering if he treated you so badly-why do you want to hear from him...cos that was not the real him. All of the above is textbook commitment phobe...push the person away as fast as possible and run...

[catt417]

Ayla,

 

Im so sorry, that is an aweful story. However, do people that are afraid of commitment actually go out and sleep with other people? I am sorry, but I HATE it with a passion when men call a woman that word. To me, that is the lowest form of disrespect as well as sleeping with someone else. I myself, would NOT be able to forgive this man, or ever trust him again.

 

I agree with VAmama, if you think you are not going to be able to handle what he may tell you, dont call. My feeling is the same as you said, he owes you a real apology, regardless of what your friends say. If he feels so ashamed and terrible about the way he treated you, you gave him the easier way to apologize, through an email. Yet, he didnt even respond to that, how terrible!!!

 

I am beginning to think that after a year you may be getting to know the real him now...Most men (and women) put their best foot forward in the first year, after that you find out what the man is really about.

 

I will be honest, we can label people as commitment phobic, this, that and the other thing. None of it really matters if it comes down to them not being able to cut it. Frankly, I couldnt make excuses for a man who slept with another by saying he is afraid of commitment. He is what he is and you are who you are. While some people may change their ways because they are truly afraid of losing someone, I think this mans actions are too terrible to forget.

 

However, if you think you could honestly be with him again and be happy,(forgive AND forget) then you have no other choice but to call and see what he says. I myself sometimes think that its more about the prize in the cracker jack box, than the actually cracker jacks. I think VAmama is feeling a little like that with the questioning going on within herself. We try and try to get to the bottom of that box hoping that something wonderful will be down there, and when we get there and are feeling exhausted from our efforts, we wonder if we even really care about the prize that made us work so hard, and wonder if it was worth it. Weird analogy, I know, but if the shoe fits....

 

So, reach down within yourself and think real hard about what you miss about him, and what you love about him, what you dont like about him, then decide. Like my momma always said, if the list of bad is longer than the good, you have your answer! Let us know.

 

VAmama, you are doing real well. You are showing restraint, yet he knows where you are. I think things will turn out ok for you. I got my fingers crossed!!!

[Ayla]

Hey Catt,

 

just to clarify - he called himself that word....he was not referring to me. Infact he said that I was a beautiful person inside and out and I did not deserve this. Also it was not him saying that he was a commitment phobe - it was me, based on his actions and what he was saying and doing - and research and also speaking with the counsellor it was determined that he was a commitment phobe - textbook.

 

Commitment phobes consciously or subconsciously destroy their relationship. To the point where they do one big final whammy to prove that they are a b*****d and that they do not deserve to be with the person that they are with. If that makes sense. I am not making excuses for him....No matter how much they love that person they destroy it - unless they are mature enough to work on themselves.

 

We were actually together for nearly 2 years, but lived together in HK for just over a year. You are right, why would I want to be with someone who can hurt me so much, and I do get your analogy...after reading it 3 times . and you are right, if it ever came to the point where he wanted me back - would I be able to forgive him...I do not know to be honest. I know he will regret it one day (and I told him that), but what i will be thinking at the time - I do not know.

 

Maybe I might leave it for another week and see how I feel then....like I have said to our friends - he is not man enough to face his actions at the moment. Weak!

[catt417]

OMG, I didnt realize it was him calling himself that!!!

 

Na, I dont think you are making excuses for him, but I think there is a time to draw the line.

 

I was engaged to a guy, was with him about 3 years. I found out over time that he was screwing someone behind my back. Now, imagine this, he was the perfect family man, cleaned, did dishes, perfect lover, financially together, just perfect. Until I found him with the other woman. My world was shattered! I tried and tried to work it out with him, but...every time we slept together I thought about him pleasing someone else. I couldnt stop thinking about it. It got to the point that I wanted to literally vomit whenever he touched me and I had to break it off and tell him I couldnt forgive him. I eventually had to get a restraint order against him because he wouldnt accept the fact that it was over. Ironic, isnt it?

 

Thats what I was thinking about with you...Believe me, I cried when I found out about the other woman. I wanted him to be MINE instead of HERS...Probably so bad, that I think I begged. But when I got the "prize" (as in the cracker jack thing) It wasnt worth it...I had to let it go because it wasnt as great as I thought...

 

Best of luck, sweetie, keep me posted. I am honestly surprised you havent heard from him...Men usually return to a woman that they know they can trust, and YOU deserve the same.

[Ayla]

That is why i am saying that he knows he treated me badly and is probably beating himself up over it...everyone is surprised that i have not heard from him. friends of mine, friends of ours and even his best mates who he has been friends with for 20 years. and yes there is a point where I have to draw the line....this is why i am confused as to what to do, and why i think he is avoiding all feeling, and is not man enough to contact me. he might want to - but his pride is getting in the way.

 

I do definitely understand what you are saying - although ti was after the fact (by 4 days), I was shattered too, but I do not know how I would feel when sleeping with him again.

 

I am going to leave it for a few more days and think about it...

 

I think you and V are amazing!!! Just quietly.

[catt417]

I think you are more amazing than you know!!!

[westrock]

VAmama and Ayla,

 

I wanted to jump in quickly here... I've read through this whole thread and wanted to say that I think each of you are doing the right thing in the way you are approaching the situation with your guys. You are both incredibly strong and patient and deserve a lot of love. Your guys are very lucky to have you in their lives.

 

VAmama, I know people want the other person to initiate communication or raise an issue, and LS'ers often recommend going NC, but don't be afraid to reach out to him periodically like you have being doing - each time you do so he is responding back each time which is a good sign.

 

The issues he is facing has to do with him and not you and he knows it, but he doesn't know how to change. Unfortunately, you are paying the price for his past emotional wounds that likely started when he was a child. You can get an idea what he is feeling because the push-pull feelings and roller coaster craziness that you are experiencing with him is what he is feeling himself. The difference is that he doesn't know how do process those feelings other than to distance himself from the situation and avoid bringing up emotional topics.

 

I noticed in one of the previous postings you mentioned having read some of the books out there about committment phobia. There is another good book out there that you might want to check out that is called "Make Up, Don't Break Up" by Dr. Bonnie Eaker Weil. Her book is based on her own experiences and basically deals with exactly the issue you are dealing with. The one thing I liked about her book is that rather than describe the situation as commitment phobia, she describes it more along the lines of a "pursuer-distancer" dynamic. She talks about connecting, disconnecting, and reconnecting in a relationship which is what is happening in your situation. When you see it from those perspectives, you can understand much better what's happening and also understand both your role and your guy's role in your relationship dynamic. You also feel empowered that you actually have the ability to influence the dynamic more to your liking. You may not be able to change your guy, but you can understand him better and change your own approach which will eventually have an impact on the relationship dynamic so that your emotional needs are satisfied. If you read the reviews at amazon you'll see that a lot of people found her book useful.

 

Hope that gives you some encouragement.

[Ayla]

Hey westrock,

Thanks 4 your words of support. Do you have any experience with commitment phobic men?

You said both V and I were approaching thing in the right way. In your opinion. What part am I doing right? Can you elaborate for me as I am at a crossroad at the moment.

 

Thanks!

[Ayla]

Hey westrock,

Thanks 4 your words of support. Do you have any experience with commitment phobic men?

You said both V and I were approaching thing in the right way. In your opinion. What part am I doing right? Can you elaborate for me as I am at a crossroad at the moment.

 

Thanks!

[westrock]

Ayla,

 

Just like most people I have come across people who were commitment phobic and I have been reading up on it.

 

What I was referring to when I said you are doing the right thing is that you seem to be approaching the situation with a mature attitude with a lot of understanding and patience with a williness to learn about this issue. Most people would just give up in frustration, but you have not done that. Your guy likely knows that you are special in this regard.

 

What I have learned is that people who are CP have 2 fears that they swing back and forth between... fear of suffocation and fear of abandonment. When the relationship becomes more intimate, they start to feel suffocated and become anxious. Eventually it becomes too much for the CP. To relieve their anxiety the CP pushes away their partner. If they are unable to push away their partner, they will engage in behavior such as cheating that will cause their partner to break up with them -- all with the effect of creating space to relieve the anxiety. Unfortunately, these actions by the CP to relieve their anxiety triggers an abondoment fear in the non-CP which causes extreme stress for the non-CP -- not sure what is happening, the non-CP engages in clingy behavior in an effort to try and 'fix' things to the way they were. The more the non-CP tries to restore the relationship, the more the CP pushes their partner away. Eventually the non-CP goes NC or gives up in frustration.

 

However, almost paradoxically, when the CP gets their space, they start to feel abandoned and become anxious. Eventually, the anxiety will be too much and at that point they will try to reconnect to their partner in an effort to relieve the anxiety (or if they become convinced you truly abandoned them they may just move on to someone else). Usually the non-CP who has felt abandoned is suprised and confused by the reaching out by the CP (reference all the my-ex-contacted-me postings here in LS) and in order to relieve their own abandonment fears the non-CP eventually is willing to take back the CP thinking the CP has learned the error of their ways. However, unfortunately the CP tends to swing from one extreme to the other and the push-pull pattern repeats itself. Swinging back and forth eventually takes its toll on both the CP and the non-CP.

 

The non-CP partner cannot figure out why the CP acts the way they do because usually the non-CP suffers only from fear of abandonment and has no problem with suffication. Understanding this difference between CP's and non-CP's is critical in understanding the non-CP's role is trying to resolve the relationship dynamic to a more comfortable level. The reason why the CP has 2 fears is complex but it generally stems from their childhood and their relationship with one or both parents.

 

The only ways to break the push and pull being caused by the CP's pattern is for either the CP partner to get professional help, or for the non-CP partner to establish more control in the relationship. Since the non-CP does not swing back and forth between two fears, the non-CP is in a better position to break the push-pull relationship pattern. The way the non-CP establishes more control is by establishing boundaries when the relationship heats up by disconnecting and then by being the first to reach out when the CP feels abandoned so as to reconnect. Essentially, the non-CP takes pre-emptive action before the CP swings too far either way. Dr. Weil refers to this process as connecting, disconnecting, and reconnecting. The effect of the non-CP establishing more control is that there is less push-pull going on and a more comfortable dynamic is achieved.

 

Based on the above I also think you have done the right thing so far by not contacting him so that he knows you won't tolerate his behavior and so that he can feel some pain of missing you. However, if you are still interested in him, I don't think that you should continue the NC indefinitely because of his abandonment fears... it's okay to reach out to him first to reconnect, but do so only in a friendly way so that he knows you do not hate him. No heavy discussions or attacking him. He knows he has treated you poorly, but because of his fear of rejection he is also paralysed as to whether or not he should contact you. Not knowing what to do, he avoids facing the issue and waits for a sign from you that you do not hate him or have rejected him. All of this sounds ridiculous to an uniformed non-CP, but it makes sense if you understand their 2 fears versus your 1 fear.

 

If you open the door just slightly by contacting him in a friendly way, you'll reconnect, and he'll know you haven't rejected him but he'll see that he will have to do some work to repair the damage he has done. This does not mean that all is forgiven and he can treat you poorly again -- you are simply reconnecting with him but he has to then do his part which may not happen right away. This is what VAmama is experiencing when she contacts her guy and he responds back.

[Ayla]

Hey westrock,

 

Thanksgir the above. All of it makes sense. I guess what is holding me back from contacting him in a friendly way is:

1. 5 weeks ago(3 weeks after breaking up, I messages him on fb chat and told him I did not hate him and that I wanted to talk to him. I did not hear anything back. Now this could be for a number of reasons-he was not ready, he did not get it or some other reason.

2. I have no idea what to say!!!

 

All of what you wrote above is so sensible and makes sense. It is great!!!

 

Let me know what you think bout the above. I know he is not home much, working late lots, drinking and most likely sleeping around. A week before we broke up he told me what we had was better than most!!

[westrock]

Ayla,

 

I am glad you found the information makes sense.

 

About contacting him - if you look at postings here on LS where dumpers have reached out, they almost always follow the same pattern along the following lines... the dumper makes some type of basic contact attempt such as a text message, IM, email, or phone message.... and almost universaly you almost always see the same response from LS'ers which is don't even read it, delete it, ignore them, and continue NC on the basis that if they were REALLY interested they would be doing way more such as calling or banging down on your door. Can you imagine if your ex posted on LS asking what they thought about your fb chat attempt? I suspect the advice would have been the same as given to others.

 

However, interestingly, when a LS poster is the position of wanting to reach out to their ex, the advice everyone here seems to give is the complete opposite, being only send a simple 1 time message so as not to look needy and then go NC until there is a reply or move on. Do you see the contradiction in those 2 pieces of advice? The point I'm making is that your reaching out 5 weeks ago by fb chat is not enough to reconnect. But don't despair, remember, it's your job to do the reconnecting (even if it feels unfair). Enough time has passed that you can try to reach out again without coming off as needy. However, I suggest that this time you call him on the telephone and if you can't reach him leave a friendly message inviting him to call you. I realise that might sound scary, but realise that it is your own abandonment fears acting up that is preventing you from reaching out. As you said, "A week before we broke up he told me what we had was better than most!!" -- it is probably true in his mind, so he probably would be happy to hear from you.

 

When you finally do talk with him, avoid asking him about what happened or why he ignored our fb chat or why he treated you the way he did (you already now have an understanding what happened and why he acts the way he does so asking will serve no positive purpose). Instead, just focus on light friendly flirty conversation as if you are talking to a dear close friend that you haven't talked to in a while. I even suggest that you do not suggest getting together, let him be the guy and ask you. Since you are also experiencing anxiety from your abandonment fears, don't get thrown off if he doesn't seem excited to hear from you or doesn't suggest getting together... at this point, he needs to just hear your voice and engage in friendly conversation so that he gets the message that it's okay if he starts to pursue you. Your goal at this point is just to reconnect, not to push him to restart the relationship. This is similar to VAmama's last meeting she had with her guy. If you start to feel anxious, end the call first so that your abandonment fears don't sabotage the positive aspects of the call.

 

Remember where the two of you are currently on the push-pull dynamic (suffocation at one end <--> abandonment at the other end). He's now on the abandonment side and is probably feeling anxiety, so if you are just friendly and flirty but not pushy, he will be motivated to pursue you to relieve his current abandonment anxiety. But, if you push too hard by asking about his behavior or the relationship or press to get together at this time, he'll be pushed to the fear of suffocation side. Hopefully, he'll start to pursue you to relieve anxiety from his abandonment fears... but with all these insights, you now know to take it slow so he doesn't swing too fast to the other side and trigger his fear of suffocation. Does that make sense?

 

With these insights, you can begin to see that you actually have a lot more control than you previously thought over how the relationship dynamic is flowing and you are more able to reduce your anxiety caused by your own abandonment fears.

[Ayla]

thanks again-really great advice. One point-suggesting to catch up is not possible...when we broke up, I left hong kong and moved back to Australia. So to see each other a flight would need to be taken.

 

I am glad you found our conversation. V and Catt are great, as are you

[catt417]

You know your message makes sense, but you really dont have to call other people losers that are trying to help her. Classy answer but classless for doing that. If talking to her bf would cause her any kind of hurt, wouldnt you suggest she might try NC? Or what if he needed "space" like he said he did, would you still suggest she call? Would that make you a loser for trying to help someone? That was a very ignorant thing to say.

 

What are you trying to sell a book? If you read through all of the post and think they are doing fine on their own, why would they need a freakin book? Hmm, I think you should read a book on "Its not nice to call people ignorant names, when just jumping into a conversation." Especially, when people have been trying to help others all along. Get it, got it, good???!!! Later...

[Ayla]

Hey Catt,

 

Did I misread something? I was reading the messages on my iPhone. Are you ok???

[catt417]

OMG no Ayla, I read one of westrocks posts that I thought called us losers for encouraging NC. Now that I look at it, I think Im stupid. I think by LS'Rs I think westrock meant love shackers and Ithought it meant losers. My apologies. Please disresgard my last comment. I am happy if you get any help that is useful, although I feel somewhat protective over you and VA now. My bad, I need to be more careful when reading posts, I guess....LOL...How are you feeling?

[Ayla]

oh good!! I think it is easy to misread things, especially when you are protective!!! Actually getting on here and seeing a message from you and V always makes me smile. Funny how you can get a connection with people, even though we know nothing about each other -except for relationships and general demographics!

 

I am good, unforunately I found out I have zero money and have had to borrow from my brother. Very embarrassing and degrading-oh well 3 weeks till my first pay!!! Yay. It has been raining here Goethe last week and finally the sun has come out so it is a beautiful winter day!

 

I hope you have a nice evening and I do think westrock meant liveshackers I think I will email my ex with a short friendly email. And see what happens, if he relies-great! If not-then that will lead to something good anyway.

 

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