New wife is having jealousy and trust issues

[Gerhard]

i still don't see how you propose any positive changes... in fact, you have discounted great suggestions here that are designed to make your situation more agreeable for both of you. you are determined not to take action to change this... seems that you mainly want to complain about this - then act passive on the back end. this is not a healthy approach. you need to try something new in order for things to change.

The only one I'm discounting is separation or divorce. She's not willing to go to couples or individual counseling. I'm tempted to deny her access to a certain portion of the house so she can't continue to throw away things that shouldn't be thrown away or merely to prevent her from engaging in her obsession.

 

if you're not willing to take action on advice given - then YOU need to ACCEPT that the situation will stay the same and learn to live with it this way, ok?

The advice given here isn't working. That's why I'm soliciting more ideas.

 

 

on a side note, why does she not work even enough to buy her own incidentals that she finds necessary items? do you control that much of her life with even little items necessary for living?

 

how old is she/you and what nationality are both of you?

She's new to this country and doesn't yet have work privileges. I'm early 40s, she's mid 20s, I'm born and raised in the US and she's from Asia.

[Gerhard]

Yes!! This is holding somebody to ransom, and using emotional and materislistic blackmail!

You discuss the situation, how it impacts, the possible consequences, then suggest the person has anger management. It's their choice. But if they choose to not have anger management, then point-blank refuse to go anywhere in a car with them until they do. And stick by your word.

This is negotiation with immediate consequences, but it makes the person responsible for their own behaviour, and 'you', responsible for 'yours....

Threats of depriving them of something big like the example above, also compromises your own happiness. The ultimatums you give should make a person consider their options, not hold a gun to their head and provoke more hostility!

I see your point, but what if after you refuse to get in a car with you, she says that you have a problem?

 

But if I understand you correctly, you're saying the consequences should be related to the action - for example, refusing to ride in the car with her rather than withholding the exotic trip to Paris. Correct?

 

 

 

 

 

Fine, ok. Yes, let's leave it at that, otherwise we shall be running around in circles....

Well at least we agree we both find happiness in doing good deeds.

 

 

 

 

I have not suggesterd terminating the relationship. I have suggested a separation, but I think, if you were to follow through, she may well agree to counselling. because it would be a choice she makes based on having to severely consider her options, based on the choices you give her.

Given what I've said, what do you think? I ask her to leave? I leave? Or I just go away on for weekends and don't take her with me?

 

 

 

I don't disagree that this is a power struggle and I'm determined to put a stop to her excessive nagging about my ex. I've tried several constructive things, but please provide some examples of selfless things that might be effective in my situation. It's my sense if you do nice things for someone who is engaging in destructive behavior that they'll continue on. However, if you lay down the law and insist that they stop, they're more inclined to stop.

 

 

You don't get this, do you?

Every time somebody points out that this is unhealthy, you always focus the cause, on her.

YOU ARE JUST AS MUCH TO BLAME FOR THIS.

You are cultivating this problem through your controlling attitude. The authoritarian approach you are proposing clearly demonstrates an unhealthy dynamic. You yourself also need personal counselling, because your part in this is also damaged....

This is not working, because she is flawed - and so are you. The interaction is not working because the solutions you are suggesting are crippled by your respective ideas of what your roles are.

And these are seriously in need of addressing.

There are two general ways of addressing an issue if it can't be resolved through communication. Threaten (or just simply administer) punishment or offer (or just simply follow through with) reward. Since she isn't responding through communication and rewarding her isn't working, the only other option falls under the umbrella of punishment.

 

Any other ideas? I'm all ears.

[TaraMaiden]

I see your point, but what if after you refuse to get in a car with you, she says that you have a problem?

Explain that this is a double-sided issue. She has a problem with road-rage, you have a problem being in the car with her. What does she think would be the productive way to work together to keep you both happy?

 

But if I understand you correctly, you're saying the consequences should be related to the action - for example, refusing to ride in the car with her rather than withholding the exotic trip to Paris. Correct?

Yes. It's a bit like telling a child misbehaving in November that Santa Claus will not visit in December. It's an unrealistic and outrageous threat to make because it really is not all that easy to carry out without damaging your own principles and state of being... It has to be linked. A direct consequence of a direct action.

 

 

Given what I've said, what do you think? I ask her to leave? I leave? Or I just go away on for weekends and don't take her with me?

As it appears you have the purse strings, and I think the house belongs to you, be the one to initiate finding somewhere else for her to live. Then tell her she's moving out.

Going away for weekends is pointless. She will do her own thing, because you are back at the end of the weekend anyway. She will simply feel snubbed, she will not see it as anything serious.

That is what I see, anyway....

 

 

There are two general ways of addressing an issue if it can't be resolved through communication. Threaten (or just simply administer) punishment or offer (or just simply follow through with) reward. Since she isn't responding through communication and rewarding her isn't working, the only other option falls under the umbrella of punishment.

 

Any other ideas? I'm all ears.

 

Tell her you firmly believe YOU NEED JOINT COUNSELLING.

And ask her to come with you, because (in this order) she is not happy, you are not happy and you BOTH need to work on this.

[jwi71]

One solution would be to get up Saturday, tell your current wife that today you are both going to search the house, room by room, box by box until ALL affects are located and destroyed.

 

What's wrong with that?

[TaraMaiden]

Why should he?

We all have effects from previous times and that mean something to us. And some of the stuff he has is legal documentation he needs to keep, but his young wife objects to this as well.....

Her wishes may be understandable, but the extent of her obsession is not.

Secondly - and of course, this really is only my opinion, based upon what I have absorbed here - The OP is also in need of some remedial counselling.

Throwing stuff out, or destroying it, will not address the real issues here.

I believe it is symptomatic of a more profound issue....

[Gerhard]

One solution would be to get up Saturday, tell your current wife that today you are both going to search the house, room by room, box by box until ALL affects are located and destroyed.

 

What's wrong with that?

As Tara said, that would be giving into her obsession and wouldn't stop the problem. For example, she doesn't want me to take her any place that I went to with my ex-wife. How would throwing away everything stop that?

[Gerhard]

Why should he?

We all have effects from previous times and that mean something to us. And some of the stuff he has is legal documentation he needs to keep, but his young wife objects to this as well.....

Her wishes may be understandable, but the extent of her obsession is not.

Secondly - and of course, this really is only my opinion, based upon what I have absorbed here - The OP is also in need of some remedial counselling.

Throwing stuff out, or destroying it, will not address the real issues here.

I believe it is symptomatic of a more profound issue....

You are right, I need counseling with respect to how to properly deal with this situation. I have given in and let her throw away some things - with the idea that it would keep her happy - and that didn't work. The only thing she has really responded to is my firmly telling her that there will be no more discussions of the ex and my following through with it when she brings up the subject. But there are still issues with things like her not wanting to go most places with me because she fears I went there with my ex.

[Gerhard]

Explain that this is a double-sided issue. She has a problem with road-rage, you have a problem being in the car with her. What does she think would be the productive way to work together to keep you both happy?

What would you then do if she said you had the problem because you wouldn't get into the car with her? And if you then said you should get couples counseling and she said you were the one who needed counseling because you wouldn't get in the car with her?

 

 

Yes. It's a bit like telling a child misbehaving in November that Santa Claus will not visit in December. It's an unrealistic and outrageous threat to make because it really is not all that easy to carry out without damaging your own principles and state of being... It has to be linked. A direct consequence of a direct action.

I understand the need to link things when you are punishing a small child or a dog. But if you explain it to an adult, they will recognize the consequences and should improve their behavior.

 

 

 

Tell her you firmly believe YOU NEED JOINT COUNSELLING.

And ask her to come with you, because (in this order) she is not happy, you are not happy and you BOTH need to work on this.

Tried this and she refuses.

[jwi71]

Why should he?

 

His W objects to it...what is more important...a memento from the past or the current W?

 

 

We all have effects from previous times and that mean something to us.

I don't...my wedding band is in a pawn shop now...I have NOTHING to remind me of the stbxw (save for the kids of course)...

And some of the stuff he has is legal documentation he needs to keep, but his young wife objects to this as well.....

Safe deposit box? Its where I keep all of MY important documents...

 

Her wishes may be understandable, but the extent of her obsession is not. Secondly - and of course, this really is only my opinion, based upon what I have absorbed here - The OP is also in need of some remedial counselling. Throwing stuff out, or destroying it, will not address the real issues here. I believe it is symptomatic of a more profound issue....

no doubt...

 

All I hear is what we CANNOT do:

 

1) therapy- out

2) throwing out the mementos and moving the legal docs to safety deposit -out

3) Divorce-out

4) Separation-out

 

BUT, gaslighting and browbeating and threats and coercion ARE in.

 

Good luck with that...I can FEEL the love

[2sunny]

Any other ideas? I'm all ears.

 

 

look, this isn't rocket science.

 

YOU state what you are and aren't willing to tolerate.

 

she either complies (everyone's happy) or

 

she doesn't (you make a decision based on action from her inability to respect your boundary).

 

it's that simple. you are letting it be way too complicated by your fear of losing her (or what she must provide for you).

 

the age difference as well as the nationality difference does make it more difficult. but you knew that when you decided to marry her.

[TaraMaiden]

You are right, I need counseling with respect to how to properly deal with this situation.

No.

You need counselling because you treat each other in the worst way possible. in conflict. Forget this situation. Your whole marriage is a mess. You need counselling because right now you are no good together. As I said, this issue is simply a symptom of a much deeper situation.

 

What would you then do if she said you had the problem because you wouldn't get into the car with her? And if you then said you should get couples counseling and she said you were the one who needed counseling because you wouldn't get in the car with her?

This is getting ridiculous, Gerhard....

This is not what we are talking about, is it? You are skimming the surface, when in fact, you should be draining the swamp.

 

 

I understand the need to link things when you are punishing a small child or a dog. But if you explain it to an adult, they will recognize the consequences and should improve their behavior.

 

Yes, but you're not dealing with an adult.

 

AND NEITHER IS SHE!!!

 

You are both being childish in your attitudes. You remind me of two toddlers bickering in the nursery.

 

Tried this and she refuses.

Then it's plan b and move her out.

Off you go.

 

By the sound of it.

[cn283]

No.

You need counselling because you treat each other in the worst way possible. in conflict. Forget this situation. Your whole marriage is a mess. You need counselling because right now you are no good together. As I said, this issue is simply a symptom of a much deeper situation.

 

 

This is getting ridiculous, Gerhard....

This is not what we are talking about, is it? You are skimming the surface, when in fact, you should be draining the swamp.

 

 

 

 

Yes, but you're not dealing with an adult.

 

AND NEITHER IS SHE!!!

 

You are both being childish in your attitudes. You remind me of two toddlers bickering in the nursery.

 

 

Then it's plan b and move her out.

Off you go.

 

By the sound of it.

 

Tera, you've been giving great advice, he needs IC, she needs IC and they need MC. Otherwise it's going to stay in "Daddy/Daughter" mode forever. I knew a chick like this and the more you enable that kind of behavior, the worst it's going to get. Pretty soon she'll start getting upset at female coworkers of his, then the checkout girl, then she'll be convinced your screwing the neighbor, ect.

[Gerhard]

No.

You need counselling because you treat each other in the worst way possible. in conflict. Forget this situation. Your whole marriage is a mess. You need counselling because right now you are no good together. As I said, this issue is simply a symptom of a much deeper situation.

Most of us could use some fine tuning when it comes to how to handle conflict in relationships. When there is conflict and one partner refuses to go to counseling, I agree it will still be of some help if the other partner goes on his/her own. And I have never had an aversion to counseling.

 

 

This is getting ridiculous, Gerhard....

This is not what we are talking about, is it? You are skimming the surface, when in fact, you should be draining the swamp.

I think we got sidetracked with the road rage example, but I was trying to see how you would handle it if your SO were involved in destructive behavior and any time you tried to put it to a halt (regardless of what method you used), she simply said you were the one with the problem or blamed you for everything.

 

 

 

 

Yes, but you're not dealing with an adult.

So you believe strongly that the punishment or consequences administered should be associated with the behavior that needs to be corrected. Perhaps you weren't the one advising me to ask her to move out, but how is booting her out of the house associate with her behavior of being obsessed with my ex? I don't see that it would serve as a punishment, but more of a wake up call. Then again, refusing to get her something she wants (example, exotic trip to Paris) could also serve as a wake up call.

[cn283]

Most of us could use some fine tuning when it comes to how to handle conflict in relationships. When there is conflict and one partner refuses to go to counseling, I agree it will still be of some help if the other partner goes on his/her own. And I have never had an aversion to counseling.

 

 

 

I think we got sidetracked with the road rage example, but I was trying to see how you would handle it if your SO were involved in destructive behavior and any time you tried to put it to a halt (regardless of what method you used), she simply said you were the one with the problem or blamed you for everything.

 

 

 

 

 

So you believe strongly that the punishment or consequences administered should be associated with the behavior that needs to be corrected. Perhaps you weren't the one advising me to ask her to move out, but how is booting her out of the house associate with her behavior of being obsessed with my ex? I don't see that it would serve as a punishment, but more of a wake up call. Then again, refusing to get her something she wants (example, exotic trip to Paris) could also serve as a wake up call.

 

 

I think what Tera is trying to show you is that she's is not acting like an adult and you're not treating her like an adult. I'm guessing you didn't have this sort of relationship with your ex, the difference being your ex acted like an adult and you treated her like an adult. Telling her "if you don't stop x, I won't give you y" is like telling a kid "if you don't stop throwing a tantrum, you're not going to Chuckie Cheese". That's not the way ADULTS handle things. She has to realize she's a grown up, prone to "grown up consequences" (you leaving) if she doesn't actively change her behaviour.

[Gerhard]

I think what Tera is trying to show you is that she's is not acting like an adult and you're not treating her like an adult. I'm guessing you didn't have this sort of relationship with your ex, the difference being your ex acted like an adult and you treated her like an adult. Telling her "if you don't stop x, I won't give you y" is like telling a kid "if you don't stop throwing a tantrum, you're not going to Chuckie Cheese". That's not the way ADULTS handle things. She has to realize she's a grown up, prone to "grown up consequences" (you leaving) if she doesn't actively change her behaviour.

If there is no connection between throwing a tantrum and going to Chuckie Cheese, then I don't see how there is a connection with, "if you don't stop obsessing about my ex, you're going to get booted out of the house". If booting them out (or threatening to boot them out) for behavior that is unrelated to a punishment of them getting booted out, then how is that different from withholding a trip to Paris for their refusal to stop engaging in road rage? In each case, there is no connection, yet some folks in here don't advocate withholding a trip to Paris if a partner doesn't stop road rage, while those same people suggest booting someone out for their refusal to stop behavior that isn't necessarily tied to whether or not the two live together.

 

If booting someone out of the house can serve as a wake up call, then cancelling the trip to Paris can also serve as a wake up call.

[2sunny]

let me ask YOU?????

 

why are you making excuses for every suggestion offered to help?

 

why are you asking more and more questions before ever answering the ones placed before you? it seems you are looking to complain instead of making an effort to find this situation unreasonable, and then to fix it. this is not normal healthy behavior for either one of you.

 

are you always this prone to be dismissive of solutions and quick to justify bad behavior? are you often unwilling to STAY in the idea of a SOLUTION?

 

it is TOOOO frustrating watching your continued excuses page after page!

 

DO SOMETHING! if not, then be quiet and live with it just the way it is now. either way - don't expect to complain if you're not willing to take any ACTION!

[Gerhard]

let me ask YOU?????

 

why are you making excuses for every suggestion offered to help?

 

why are you asking more and more questions before ever answering the ones placed before you? it seems you are looking to complain instead of making an effort to find this situation unreasonable, and then to fix it. this is not normal healthy behavior for either one of you.

 

are you always this prone to be dismissive of solutions and quick to justify bad behavior? are you often unwilling to STAY in the idea of a SOLUTION?

 

it is TOOOO frustrating watching your continued excuses page after page!

 

DO SOMETHING! if not, then be quiet and live with it just the way it is now. either way - don't expect to complain if you're not willing to take any ACTION!

These aren't excuses. I had a heart to heart conversation with her and made it clear how disruptive her obsessive behavior is to me and our relationship and that it's over if she doesn't clear up these issues she has. She has toned it down and if she brings it up again, I'll remind her.

[cn283]

If there is no connection between throwing a tantrum and going to Chuckie Cheese, then I don't see how there is a connection with, "if you don't stop obsessing about my ex, you're going to get booted out of the house". If booting them out (or threatening to boot them out) for behavior that is unrelated to a punishment of them getting booted out, then how is that different from withholding a trip to Paris for their refusal to stop engaging in road rage? In each case, there is no connection, yet some folks in here don't advocate withholding a trip to Paris if a partner doesn't stop road rage, while those same people suggest booting someone out for their refusal to stop behavior that isn't necessarily tied to whether or not the two live together.

 

If booting someone out of the house can serve as a wake up call, then cancelling the trip to Paris can also serve as a wake up call.

 

 

Because there's a difference between saying to someone "your being bad, so your not getting the thing you want" vs. "your behavior is immature, and if you don't fix it I can't be with you". One is how you deal with a screaming child, the other is how you deal with an adult.

[hoping2heal]

I'm not as concerned with what happens to artifacts or momentos from my previous relationship as I am concerned with the health of my new relationship. But letting her throw away old photos, cards or letters she stumbles upon doesn't put the issue to rest. She insists that there must be more stuff and has conveyed in certain words that she will search every corner of the house until she "cleanses" it out.

 

I don't care so much about the cleansing, but I do care about her having an unhealthy obsession. And I just don't know what to do about it.

 

 

If you're not as concerned with losing them, as you are with your new relationship then why don't you get rid of them? If it's going to mean that much to her, why wouldn't you? I can see why she's upset. If I married a man who insisted on hanging onto old sentiments of his former relationship, I'd be raising hell too. Here's the thing : you SAY you are more concerned with your current relationship, but the fact that you're seeing her so upset and insist on hanging onto them to her makes her feel like those are words, but not how you trully feel. Get rid of the crap already, it's your past life.

[sunsetbeach]

If you're not as concerned with losing them, as you are with your new relationship then why don't you get rid of them? If it's going to mean that much to her, why wouldn't you? I can see why she's upset. If I married a man who insisted on hanging onto old sentiments of his former relationship, I'd be raising hell too. Here's the thing : you SAY you are more concerned with your current relationship, but the fact that you're seeing her so upset and insist on hanging onto them to her makes her feel like those are words, but not how you trully feel. Get rid of the crap already, it's your past life.

 

 

ITA just get rid of everything with her one weekend and put important papers in a safe deposit box. Why are you fueling her insecurities? The more you say no the more she will believe you really want these things hanging around and the more she will obsess. Not everyone will care as much as her about things like this but some people this will bother. If you want your relationship to work with your new wife just get rid of the stuff. Do not take her places where you went with your ex and let her know you would not do that. Do you like making her feel even worse. Telling her no is going to build resentment and make her think you still have feelings for your ex. I personally never brought things like this in my home and would feel bad if I did. I would want to start anew with someone and build new memories.

[Gerhard]

If you're not as concerned with losing them, as you are with your new relationship then why don't you get rid of them? If it's going to mean that much to her, why wouldn't you? I can see why she's upset. If I married a man who insisted on hanging onto old sentiments of his former relationship, I'd be raising hell too. Here's the thing : you SAY you are more concerned with your current relationship, but the fact that you're seeing her so upset and insist on hanging onto them to her makes her feel like those are words, but not how you trully feel. Get rid of the crap already, it's your past life.

I see where you're coming from, but why does it have to be one or the other? If she stated as a condition of being married, I had to get rid of everything remotely related to prior relationships, I would have thought twice about marrying her. By dumping the stuff, it doesn't resolve the core issue she has. The stuff will be gone and I won't have to deal with her nagging, but she'll still have issues with my past - just that there won't be things around as readily for her to be reminded. And getting rid of the stuff doesn't resolve the issue of her having problems going to places I went to with my ex.

[Gerhard]

Because there's a difference between saying to someone "your being bad, so your not getting the thing you want" vs. "your behavior is immature, and if you don't fix it I can't be with you". One is how you deal with a screaming child, the other is how you deal with an adult.

So if your SO were regularly engaging in road rage, you tried repeatedly to get her to stop and she insisted there was no harm in her behavior and you were to blame, would you not think twice about going on that trip to Paris with her/him?

[Gerhard]

ITA just get rid of everything with her one weekend and put important papers in a safe deposit box. Why are you fueling her insecurities? The more you say no the more she will believe you really want these things hanging around and the more she will obsess. Not everyone will care as much as her about things like this but some people this will bother. If you want your relationship to work with your new wife just get rid of the stuff. Do not take her places where you went with your ex and let her know you would not do that. Do you like making her feel even worse. Telling her no is going to build resentment and make her think you still have feelings for your ex. I personally never brought things like this in my home and would feel bad if I did. I would want to start anew with someone and build new memories.

Very well said. However, there have been some good faith disagreements between us with respect to what should remain and what should go. With respect to the stuff she wants to go and I want to keep, I offer to put it somewhere where she won't have to see it and she seems to be comfortable with that. As for not taking her places I took my ex, I can't do that unless we move to an entirely different part of the country. First, we're in the same house I was with my ex, my wife is new to the area and during the time I was with my ex, I went with her to virtually every interesting place within an hour or two from my home. And if we move to an entirely different part of the country, she still has to deal with the fact that she'll be with the person who spent a lot of time with my ex.

 

In a nutshell, there is no way of her escaping my ex. But there is hope that she can come to accept that I have a past and I don't let it affect our present.

[jwi71]

Gerhard,

 

5 pages and some 6 dozen posts and NO progress.

 

Its obvious WE can't help you - there is a rebuttal for all we offer and advise. And don't say its ALL HER - its not...its YOU as well. Personally, I don't WANT any artifacts or mementos from my xW around for 1) move on (xW is the PAST) and 2) its disrespectful to my soon-to-be-wife-I-haven't met-yet.

 

The only advice I have is...keep the calling card of your divorce lawyer around....

 

Good luck...

[TaraMaiden]

Yes.

I have given up.

he doesn't want help, he just seems to want the attention.

But this is a poor substitute for real, professional support and counselling.

Which they both desperately need.

This relationship is so dysfunctional it is amazing it even got to this stage.

 

Gerhard, go away, find a counsellor for yourself, and start looking at yourself.

This might actually trigger the desire in her to follow suit.

Even if it does not, at least you 'should' be making the effort to remedy the issues you have.

And yes you do have issues....

 

Stop talking about road rage.

It's simply a smokescreen to what you should be doing.

 

Have we 'driven' this home yet?

 

_/l\_