I don't want to sound like a complainer, but...

[Ariadne]

I wonder how many of the staff that you have let go is actually more talented than the ones you keep.

 

She probably only keeps people with zero personality and full of fear.

[Ariadne]

today we met for our daily action items and again, they were not updated, even though I told her yesterday this was a priority.

 

She simply doesn't give a damn about your work. She hates it.

[Ariadne]

Btw,

 

I know because I'm kind of like that girl too.

 

I remember one time Paris Hilton saying, just suck! Whenever they give you something to do, just suck, so they never bother you again.

 

(The only times I've been "made to work" has been when whatever I was doing truly helped someone else and made him happy and he appreciated it, if I saw I was making a difference, then I'd do it just for him)

[Okfine]

Redfathom, personally I would heed Anne1707's advice because she has demonstrated true leadership qualities in her suggestions. Seeing how she conducts herself in this conversation I have a tendency to believe she comes from a more progressive style in leadership.

 

Sometimes it's as easy as observing how someone conducts themselves in a conversation to see where their capabilities lie. Anyone can utter gibes in an attempt to overpower, that's not leadership by a long shot. Try to educate yourself from those who display the best in every respect, especially in those areas where they are unaware they are being observed.

[Okfine]

Trying to "hone deadwood" would suggest that you have failed in your primary directive as a recruiter to employ someone who is on par for the role. When you fail to perform the most basic of functions in recruitment you are then faced with having to inflict power on the poorly chosen candidate in order to rectify or possibly push out a problem you have created. Either way that's nothing to feel proud of.

[TwinkletOes26]

I don't enable mediocrity or less. I support go-getters and people who can get the job done with professionalism and competency.

 

There are two types of employees I used to hire. Ones that needed to be challenged to a reasonable level and ones that needed the impossible challenge. They fully understood that they were the brightest and the best. That's part of the reason why excellent staff from other firms used to come knocking at the door.

 

You can hone steel. You can't hone deadwood.

 

Come on BEG. Based on your own admission, in another thread, you haven't done a stitch of work in months. Let me guess. It's your boss' fault that you're in fatal attraction mode, in an unrequited scenario.

 

 

Wow theres so much hostility on the board sometimes. Good grief who cares ? The way some manage works at some places whilst it doesnt work at others. I had a boss that was rude,critical and just not a leader. She never respected her staff unless they were ojne of her favs. You know what happened to her? She went to jail for being in on a check forging ring when she got out the establishment hired her back (why i dont know) and she then got fired 3 months later for yelling at a staff member in front of customers. The cashier (who was 17 ) responded to this abuse by taking a swing.

 

Please remember sometimes staff members are not always stable. Ive heard of people(not that i know anyone like this cough cough) who have followed mean rude managers to a place after work like a grocery store,bar,eating establishment then slashed tires,scratched paint or find out their house addy and eff up the exterior of the house BAD. So please please employers id really take into account how you treat staff people are not sane in todays world;).

[Trialbyfire]

Trying to "hone deadwood" would suggest that you have failed in your primary directive as a recruiter to employ someone who is on par for the role. When you fail to perform the most basic of functions in recruitment you are then faced with having to inflict power on the poorly chosen candidate in order to rectify or possibly push out a problem you have created. Either way that's nothing to feel proud of.

Hiring is a crap shoot. No one has a crystal ball or can read minds, regardless of how highly you think of yourself.

[Okfine]

I strongly disagree, hiring is not a crap shoot. You cannot sing praise on yourself when a company thrives and then brush off the bad choices as "hiring is a crap shoot". If you are accountable for the success then you are also accountable for the failure.

 

This is precisely the mentality a lot of these middle management HR reps bring to the table. It's also why I believe HR roles are filled with talentless people who are very good at creating a cozy niche for themselves in an arena otherwise filled with talented dedicated professionals with strong specialized skills.

 

There are certain techniques that can be applied in the interview process that take into account past behaviours to predict future ones. We use effective tools at our organization to do exactly this. We have had success not only in hiring highly competent staff but also in mastering the ability to find candidates that are the right cultural fit for the organization. Then again I am in an industry where homogeny is very important when it comes to cultural fit and the overall productivity of the company. We can't afford to think " we don't have a crystal ball so let the chips fall where they may with this new hire". That's sub par thinking that comes at a costly price, one which we are not prepared to pay. Therefore, we would never outsource something as crucial as recruitment.

 

Recruitment has to come from someone who understands the organization inside and out, a lot of HR reps haven't the faintest clue beyond their scope of skills, whatever they may be. Most the time HR departments just end up doing repair management to the problems they produced in the first place. I have worked for both types of companies, those that had a strong recruitment program and those that had weak dime a dozen HR reps doing the hiring and the differences are considerable.

 

HR consulting is a vibrant business of its own I will give you that, but it is nothing more than a parasite operation that feeds off of the true talent that makes up the foundation of a successful corporation. Success is not only measured in $$$$ it is also measured in the overall emotional well being of the staff that make up any particular work force. I would not want to work for a company that prides itself in bully tactics and I have turned down jobs where during the recruitment process I have sensed this tendency in the recruiter. I don't care what the company is about the buck stops there for me.

[OpenBook]

Success is not only measured in $$$$ it is also measured in the overall emotional well being of the staff that make up any particular work force. I would not want to work for a company that prides itself in bully tactics and I have turned down jobs where during the recruitment process I have sensed this tendency in the recruiter. I don't care what the company is about the buck stops there for me.

 

Thanks for that, Okfine. I really needed to read that right now (I'm currently in job search mode).

[Trialbyfire]

I'm confused as to what outsourced HR or middle management HR individuals have to do with this thread. I've never been HR and redfathom's problem, comes from the HR director.

 

But...now that you've mentioned it, inhouse HR tends to overinflate their importance to a firm. As expressed in previous threads, much of what HR does, a trained monkey can do. There are few and far between talented HR people, who are assets to their firm v. liabilities, most often not cost effective, compared to productivity. I have seen a few who are talented though and like anything else, those individuals are highly prized, just like any other talented individuals.

[Okfine]

Openbook, you're welcome glad to help. I have been where you are and I learned through a big mistake I made in allowing a recruiter to bully me into "appreciation" Out of desperation at the time I continued in the process and the experience was the same once I got to meet the people I would be working closely with. I needed the work more than I needed to stand my ground in terms of looking at the overall picture, but it was the worst mistake of my life. Everything I had sensed in the interview process was true to how the company was run and the toxic enviroment the staff was subjected to due to lack of leadership in upper management. I was only there for one month and tended my resignation as soon I saw how things were done.

 

My advice to anyone who feels they have been bullied during the interview process by an authoritative recruiter is to follow through with letting the head of the company know what your experience has been. I work in Public Relations one of the things we take very seriously in our industry is how a company is perceived from all angles of interaction with the public. There are a lot of HR representatives that do more harm than good for organizations in terms of how they misrepresent them and senior leadership needs to know this is going on at a lower level. All interaction is important and often this level of interaction with the public is taken for granted unless it is brought to light.

[2sunny]

i'd fire that gal. there are too many people out of work and willing to do anything and as much work as possible to have a job right now.

 

i view her attitude as totally unwilling to learn and be a team player in her working environment. she's a roadblock - to herself and to others.

 

in fact, i see her as spending her energy trying NOT to do the work instead of just getting it done - these kind of people are just way too exhausting.

[Okfine]

While I agree that this economy has produced a lot more people who are willing to do anything to land a job, that doesn't necessarily pan out as a lucrative long term investment for some employers. Some people who are willing to do anything to land a job, will get the job and end up leaving the minute the economy picks up or when they find something better. Having an influx of unemployed people is not necessarily better for employers, it is actually more tedious and laborintensive for them since they need to factor in far more quantifiers in order to weed out undesirables and narrow down to the right candidate.

[BlueEyedGirl]

I don't enable mediocrity or less. I support go-getters and people who can get the job done with professionalism and competency.

 

There are two types of employees I used to hire. Ones that needed to be challenged to a reasonable level and ones that needed the impossible challenge. They fully understood that they were the brightest and the best. That's part of the reason why excellent staff from other firms used to come knocking at the door.

 

You can hone steel. You can't hone deadwood.

 

Come on BEG. Based on your own admission, in another thread, you haven't done a stitch of work in months. Let me guess. It's your boss' fault that you're in fatal attraction mode, in an unrequited scenario.

 

What I don't get is why would people that are brightest and the best, young go-getters etc want to work as someone's assistant? (I assume that were the postitions you were hiring for). Wouldn't they have stayed in school so that they can start at a level that's a bit above cleaning conference rooms?

 

at the "fatal attraction mode". That was nicely put. I give credit where credit is due.

[Trialbyfire]

What I don't get is why would people that are brightest and the best, young go-getters etc want to work as someone's assistant? (I assume that were the postitions you were hiring for). Wouldn't they have stayed in school so that they can start at a level that's a bit above cleaning conference rooms?

 

at the "fatal attraction mode". That was nicely put. I give credit where credit is due.

Not everyone has the luxury of being slotted directly into a management position. It's reliant on field of expertise and within some industries, regardless of educational credentials which are currently a dime-a-dozen, you need to get your foot in the door. There are only so many cush jobs available, as at the time people are looking for them. Even Harvard grads are currently job hunting.

[BlueEyedGirl]

Not everyone has the luxury of being slotted directly into a management position. It's reliant on field of expertise and within some industries, regardless of educational credentials which are currently a dime-a-dozen, you need to get your foot in the door. There are only so many cush jobs available, as at the time people are looking for them. Even Harvard grads are currently job hunting.

 

OK I see. It is a bit different in my field of work as there is usually more jobs than there are grads. I guess that is why my behaviour is tolerated for now. It's hard to find another person with rare education/skill set (but not impossible).

[Ariadne]

OK I see. It is a bit different in my field of work as there is usually more jobs than there are grads. I guess that is why my behaviour is tolerated for now. It's hard to find another person with rare education/skill set (but not impossible).

 

Yeah, not many people have Math PhDs...

[redfathom]

Sorry, there are a lot of posts, so I will try to reply as best as I can.

 

First to Okfine, I didn't hire this person. I interviewed as a temp to help while I was on medical leave, when I came back I was told he was hired on FT by our HR director. She was never given an interview for the FT position, a job description, nothing. When I asked m last assistant who got a promotion while I was on leave how she was doing (they are also best friends) she told me she had concerns about whether or not she is qualified.

 

Adriane, I am not asking her to do my job, I am asking her to do her job. She was working here for nine weeks while I was on leave, and I have been back over a month working with her. I took it very easy on her when I got back so we could adjust to each other. But the moment I started to give her work she freaked out. I tried explaining the expectations of this job more clearly, I gave asked her to give me feedback on your work and what she would like to do differently, I asked her to look into training classes we could send her to. She hasn't done either. I also asked her to do one very simple task, update your action items so that I can get a status of her tasks every day. The very next day, she ignored this. It's a waste of time for me to do all of these things when she doesn't respond and doesn't come prepared.

 

My next step is to take her to lunch and have a heart to heart about what she wants and what this job requires, it might not be a good match. But I am giving her the opprotunity to prove that she does want to do this job, and I am offering to get her training and to be her mentor. So far she is just throwing a tantrum...

 

When we considered her for the temp postion, she has just been laid off. She worked at one of six receptionists and found out weeks in advance they would be letting people go, my then assistant (her best friend) told her she needed to be invaluable to the company so she could keep her job. Obviously she doesn't always have her priorities straight. There are a lot of people out of work, who would love her job and would take is seriously. Why should I waste my time investing more in her, when she obviously doesn't care?

 

Again, all I am asking is for her to do her job. I don't mind even helping, but she needs to put in some effort.

[Ariadne]

Adriane, I am not asking her to do my job, I am asking her to do her job. She was working here for nine weeks while I was on leave, and I have been back over a month working with her.

 

When I said "your job", I meant the job that she has been assigned by the company to do which in part is to assist you.

 

Now is even more clear..

 

For nine months she didn't do anything and got used to getting paid for doing nothing.

 

Now you come with all those expectations and she is like, scrw you.

 

She is just trying to be there and do nothing, and wants you to shut up.

 

(I'm talking from her mentality which is similar to mine, I'd just agree with you to make you happy and then do nothing. I don't like "training" and all that stuff, and will try to avoid them).

[redfathom]

Ariadne,

 

It's was nine weeks actually. I see your point. But for nine weeks she was told she was here temporarily, and was ready to go find another job. But she didn't have to because they gave her a FT job here. I would think after being laid off she would be greatful (not to me) to have any job. It's not called "work" for nothing.

 

If that truley is her attitude, then we should let her go and find someone who needs a job and wants this one.

 

I would think she would take the opprotunity to have the company pay for her to further her skills in programs she can and will use at other jobs and in her personal life...

[redfathom]

So I sent an e-mail to our COO about my assistant, on the advice of our CEO. He came to me this morning and asked me what is going on and I told him I was concerned about her performance and that she is becoming a little hostil. I told him basically what I said on here, not updating things, etc.

 

He said he didn't have time for this and that she seemed to be doing fine before I started supervising her...

 

So I guess it's all my fault? Am I being too demanding?

 

He said, "Well I thought she was doing a good job of cleaning around the office and X said she was doing a good job." And that he didn't have time to deal with this right now and wouldn't have time until Thursday.

[hotgurl]

Sorry, there are a lot of posts, so I will try to reply as best as I can.

 

First to Okfine, I didn't hire this person. I interviewed as a temp to help while I was on medical leave, when I came back I was told he was hired on FT by our HR director. She was never given an interview for the FT position, a job description, nothing. When I asked m last assistant who got a promotion while I was on leave how she was doing (they are also best friends) she told me she had concerns about whether or not she is qualified.

 

Adriane, I am not asking her to do my job, I am asking her to do her job. She was working here for nine weeks while I was on leave, and I have been back over a month working with her. I took it very easy on her when I got back so we could adjust to each other. But the moment I started to give her work she freaked out. I tried explaining the expectations of this job more clearly, I gave asked her to give me feedback on your work and what she would like to do differently, I asked her to look into training classes we could send her to. She hasn't done either. I also asked her to do one very simple task, update your action items so that I can get a status of her tasks every day. The very next day, she ignored this. It's a waste of time for me to do all of these things when she doesn't respond and doesn't come prepared.

 

My next step is to take her to lunch and have a heart to heart about what she wants and what this job requires, it might not be a good match. But I am giving her the opprotunity to prove that she does want to do this job, and I am offering to get her training and to be her mentor. So far she is just throwing a tantrum...

 

When we considered her for the temp postion, she has just been laid off. She worked at one of six receptionists and found out weeks in advance they would be letting people go, my then assistant (her best friend) told her she needed to be invaluable to the company so she could keep her job. Obviously she doesn't always have her priorities straight. There are a lot of people out of work, who would love her job and would take is seriously. Why should I waste my time investing more in her, when she obviously doesn't care?

 

Again, all I am asking is for her to do her job. I don't mind even helping, but she needs to put in some effort.

 

 

oh don't take he to lunch.

 

I have had crappy assistants before. I would tell her what her duties are. What the priorities are. ie. cleaning the conference rooms etc..

 

and say I expect you to get these tasks done if your are unable to you are not the right fit for the job. I will give you x number of days to than we will meet up again and asses whether you are a good fit or not. Can you fire her?

 

BTW copy your boss everything the job requirements, your notes, her response.

[Ariadne]

Ariadne,

 

It's was nine weeks actually. I see your point. But for nine weeks she was told she was here temporarily, and was ready to go find another job. But she didn't have to because they gave her a FT job here. I would think after being laid off she would be greatful (not to me) to have any job. It's not called "work" for nothing.

 

If that truley is her attitude, then we should let her go and find someone who needs a job and wants this one.

 

I would think she would take the opprotunity to have the company pay for her to further her skills in programs she can and will use at other jobs and in her personal life...

 

Ok, I don't want to get this girl fired with this economy either...

 

Just to give you a bit of my perspective.

 

It seems like you have high expectations (like anybody would) of this girl, and she is there because she has no choice and she needs the money.

 

She is not happy to do all the stuff you want her to do, is my impression.

 

If she is anything like me, the only way would be if she takes a liking for you, as in, he's such a nice guy let's help him.

 

That way she may be more compassionate to you and do your stuff. But not because is a company rule, but because after all, you are a nice guy.

[redfathom]

I am actually a girl , and a nice one...

 

My last assistant and I got along great, but she was a hardworker.

[Ariadne]

I am actually a girl , and a nice one...

 

My last assistant and I got along great, but she was a hardworker.

 

Ah, ok

 

Well, if you get in her good side she might help you.

 

And you do seem very nice to me.

 

Good luck!