DDay#3...OM#4...Devestation

[taylor]

I think it is great they got the truth. By "editorializing" , I meant no comments about her character. Just the facts.

 

Do you think the 8 year old needed to know the facts about how many times their mother orgasmed with the good doctor?

 

I mean, where do you draw the line?

 

I think, due to the age of the child, it would have sufficed to say that mommy loves another man and wants to be with him instead of daddy. Period.

 

Why talk sex with an 8 yo who probably doesn't even understand the mechanics of it all yet.

 

Discussing divorce with an 8 yo would be emotionally devastating enough for the child, let alone discussing the sex act that led to the divorce.

 

Any parent that would force the WS to share that much truth with a young child is only thinking of their own "payback" and not what is in the best interst of the child. It's a form of emotional abuse that the parent would knowingly be inflicting upon a child too young to hear those kinds of details, IMO.

 

When I was 11 years old my mother handed me a white shirt of my father's and wanted me to hold it in the light to look for faint lipstick smudges and blond hairs as she suspected him of infidelity. It hurt to know that he was having an affair. But it hurt just as much that my betrayed mother shared all those details with me. I would rather not have known...not at age 11.

[Trimmer]

Why talk sex with an 8 yo who probably doesn't even understand the mechanics of it all yet.

 

Discussing divorce with an 8 yo would be emotionally devastating enough for the child, let alone discussing the sex act that led to the divorce.

 

Any parent that would force the WS to share that much truth with a young child is only thinking of their own "payback" and not what is in the best interst of the child. It's a form of emotional abuse that the parent would knowingly be inflicting upon a child too young to hear those kinds of details, IMO.

 

When I was 11 years old my mother handed me a white shirt of my father's and wanted me to hold it in the light to look for faint lipstick smudges and blond hairs as she suspected him of infidelity. It hurt to know that he was having an affair. But it hurt just as much that my betrayed mother shared all those details with me. I would rather not have known...not at age 11.

 

From where in the OP's posts do you draw the conclusion that he "forced her to share that much truth"? In fact, from his surprised reaction ("impressive...", he said) I think it's as valid to conclude that she volunteered it.

 

That doesn't negate the validity of your other comments, and I do believe there is an age- and family-dependent line somewhere short of "complete and utter truth about all facts" that doesn't need to be crossed, but I think you may be projecting in your assumption that he forced her to reveal this to the kids...

[taylor]

I meet with attorney today...tell wife it's "D" time tonight. Kids and rest of family hear the whole story on Sat. As does the OMs wife. And so do all co-workers. Nuclear exposure.

 

I'm not doing this to make my wife pay, or revenge. I'm doing this to shed light on the horrible thing that is an affiar. I'm doing this so that everyone associated with wife and OM#4 understand just what they are dealing with.

 

They will feel the consequences of their actions. They will have to deal with the reprecussions.

 

Trimmer,

 

When I said any spouse who forces a wayward to share such details....I was talking in general terms, not necessarily specific to this OP.

 

But, from what the OP wrote above, I gather he was quite happy his wife confessed all the sordid details of her affair with their two young children. He, in fact, said he was "impressed" with what she told them. Do you think for one moment any mother would WANT to share these details with her children? Do you think for one moment she happily shared these details with them? Do you think for one minute he did NOT put some pressure on her to be forthcoming with these details to their children?

 

If the OP had any qualms about these sordid details becoming known to his young children, he would not have said he was "impressed." He would have expressed CONCERN that too much information had reached the tender, innocent ears of his children.

 

From what the OP said in the above post, it IS his intention for EVERYONE, including his two young children, to know all the sordid details of his wife's sexcapades via "NUCLEAR EXPOSURE" (his words). He wants everyone, including his children, to "FEEL THE CONSEQUENCES" and to have to "DEAL WITH THE REPERCUSSIONS."

 

I think alot of hurting BS feel this way. They are hurting so they want to make the WS hurt by exposure. And what better way to hurt the wayward than by using the children.

 

I think he took great satisfaction in hearing his wife tell their children what a bad person she is for having sex with another man. Would there have been any greater form of pay back? I hope it all made him feel better.

 

I still think those children were too young to be given THAT MUCH information. It served no good purpose...just self-serving, revengeful payback for him.

 

And if he plans on telling the whole world about his wife's sexcapades, then the children will have to endure the hurtful details not only on the homefront, but at school and in the community as word gets out.

 

I have a friend who recently moved to get away from the gossip and hurtful words that her children were having to endure after her husband's affair with the PTO president was discovered. She did everything in her power to keep his affair discreet to protect the children, but couldn't.

 

This OP seems bent on just the opposite...nuclear exposure..with total disregard to what this will do to his children. Yes, his wife had the affair, but there is a thing called "damage control" if he wanted to try to protect his children the best he could. But, obviously, that's not his main goal.

[tami-chan]

I think this DEMAND to expose the truth is not really about truth itself, but more about punishment. It is not pleasant (to say the very least) to have to talk about one's questionable actions to your loved ones. So this is a form of punishing the WS. Perhaps, justifiably so..but in the end the children suffer. Truth can be told to the children, it just needs to be appropriate and sans malice.

[Bluebird In My Heart]

...

 

Update: We told the kiddos on Saturday. Wife ponied up and said following (paraphrase):

 

"Kids, when you get married you vow to love only one person. I vowed to love Daddy. Well, i broke that vow. I had feelings for another man. I kissed another man and I has sex with another man. That was wrong. I take full responsibility for this devorce. It's not your fault and It's not Daddy's fault...this is my fault."

 

Impressive.

 

 

I can think of a lot of words for this - "Impressive" is not one of them.

 

 

She's devestated and hopefully hitting rock bottom. she needs to hit bottom to grow as a person.

 

I haven't the slightest clue why, but this hits me as so arrogant - in a way to relate to a wife, anyway. It calls to mind a father reprimanding an unruly daughter.

 

Would you feel that way about a true partner?

 

It's like you are trying to get back some of your power, I get that, I truly do. Truly. Esp. as a male.

 

I wondered, reading your story as I am sure many others have, "Why didn't he leave the first time...the second time...the third...ect.?"

 

Now I think I get it.

 

In your past posts, you refer to the affair partners a lot - hitting them with the old "2 X 4 of Truthiness" - (is that a MarriageBuilders thing btw? I notice a lot of men are around here from MB are kinda like that..."talking tough and giving it to ya straight!", "I TOLD her to straighten up and fly RIGHT! Yes, I did!", ect., ect...).

 

It's a way of feeling like you are getting back control.

The problem is when it becomes this: you being controlling.

Not the best way to relate to someone who is there to be a partner to you.

It must be exhausting...

 

Also, I see you drank the Kool-Aid about the whole "needs thing".

 

I know a lot of people buy into this, but I think it's the biggest crock of bee-esss when it comes to a lot of relationships. I think we corresponded on that before, in your first thread, methinks (still think you are awesome for starting that thread, DNU).

 

Am I saying people don't have needs and compatibility issues that should mesh, and that marriage doesn't take work? No, not at all.

 

All I am saying is - some people are unrepentant. Some people don't want to change. Some people never will. Some people are a-holes. Some people can be 50 and have the emotional stability and impulse-control of a 5 year old.

 

And they will never change.

 

Things like MarriageBuilders, and all of those things have a place IF someone isn't completely unrepentant, but they don't do a great job of pointing that out, do they?

 

Instead the feed a person's hope and take their money. Unreasonable.

 

I hate that because their whole model does appear to imply that if someone's out there screwing around, it is someone because their bloody "needs" aren't being met. *pointing the finger at the already traumatized, grasping-for-straws/control spouse*

 

And then a person like you, DNU, stays. I'm guessing you have a problem-solving personality.

 

You would've been better off had you left years ago. You may not see it now, but I am horrified by what took place with your little ones. They did NOT need to hear that level of detail.

 

I honestly think it's because maybe...you don't exactly have perspective right now.

 

 

I can't be there to rescue her any more. I need to let her fail.

 

You've been treating her like a child, she's been acting like a child.

Doesn't matter which came first, it simply is.

This is a mess.

 

I am truly sorry. This too will pass...

 

 

today has been extremely difficult. Lots of emotions.

 

You will get through this. Keep the little ones close, do what you have to do.

 

Look forward to having a great relationship with a true partner someday. There are relationships out there that are not THIS hard.

 

I wish you the best of luck. I really do. I am sorry you have been so twisted up by this mess.

 

Peace.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I think this DEMAND to expose the truth is not really about truth itself, but more about punishment. It is not pleasant (to say the very least) to have to talk about one's questionable actions to your loved ones. So this is a form of punishing the WS. Perhaps, justifiably so..but in the end the children suffer. Truth can be told to the children, it just needs to be appropriate and sans malice.

 

I read the Infidelity threads and am amazed at the hatred and nastiness within the posts and the hurt of cheated upon spouses.

 

This post is all too common and the posters lining up to demonize the wife is all too typical.

 

In terms of Infidelity this situation is a 3 (on a 1-10 scale). The Husband while hurt is just so mean spirited and nasty and takes no blame for anything that transpired. Maybe he bears no blame, but his posts just strike me as odd. He had his doubts, if so hire a PI and get every salacious detail. The fact he does not want seem to want to work to save the marriage is telling. The non-traditional roles, played a huge part in the situation and I am sure bubbled under the surface and never was addressed imo.

 

In the end how you tell the children is your own decision and I too see no reason why you need to share blame when one is responsible. I admit I could not be so polite if I separated or divorced in what the children would know.

[Bluebird In My Heart]

^

 

I agree with some of what you posted.

 

But I must ask, because I am honestly surprised by one thing you wrote...

 

If you think this is a 3 on a 1-10 scale, what would you characterize as a 10?

 

[Trialbyfire]

DNU1, cheaters will lie their way out, if they can. Having said that, you're not going to get agreement, sympathy or empathy from OM/OWs who stand to gain from their affair partners. You'll never change the outlook of the ones who don't have the same morals and values as you, or have justified their roles. People are selfish.

 

Focus less on the OM and more on what you need in life. Focus on your children and their needs. Whatever you need to do, to regain sanity, thus the potential for happiness, do it. Don't worry about the cheater or her affair partner.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

^

 

I agree with some of what you posted.

 

But I must ask, because I am honestly surprised by one thing you wrote...

 

If you think this is a 3 on a 1-10 scale, what would you characterize as a 10?

 

 

First I am still not even sure how much "cheating" there was. Two prior to marriage were they kisses, one-night stands or full blown affairs? The two most recent I am not sure either of the extent. I really had trouble understanding the OP's facts and delve into the extent of these "Affairs". Did she cheat yes..... Was it a full blown emotional and physical affair (I still do not know all the acronyms on this site).

 

I would've have gotten every detail as I said. Times dates, texts, emails, motel bills, dinners..... Did I read something wrong or was it only 1 time and she has developed and emotional attachm,ent and that the husband has said "it's over".

 

A 10 is multiple affairs, a long-term mistress, trips under the guise of business and full emotional attachment.....

[Dexter Morgan]

are honest, sincere? Do you see what being the OM/OW will do to people / families.

 

That's my story.

 

so now the question is, when are you going to give this unfaithful woman her walking papers?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Some of you know my story -- wife had affairs with two men 14 years ago in medical school. One a long term EA/PA, the other a short term PA. DDay#1 (OMs #1, #2) was May 1996. We worked through counseling and fought hard for our marriage.

 

Had kids, moved around, built careers. Four years ago finally moved "home" to be near family. Wife a great job, me becoming a stay-at-home-dad.

 

Dec 2008 was DDay#2 (OM#3). I agonized over what to do. Found some great resources, books, web sites, and worked on the marriage. Gave it 110% effort! Changed many things about me specifically for my wife. Worked my tail off. People around me in the know questioned her dedication, her want to recover the marriage. Five months of hard work.

 

Monday I thought I had found a secret e-mail account and called her on it. We talked and I discovered it was not a secret e-mail. But on a hunch I asked her specifically about a co-worker I had a bad feeling about. Asked to her face, as I held her in my arms, "is there anything going on with Dr. X."

 

She looked me dead in the eyes, held me tight and said, "NO, nothing going on with Dr. X."

 

The feeling wouldn't go away. Kept nagging at me. So I played hard ball and called a bluff.

 

She returned home after night on call and I was worked in to a frenzy. She knew something was wrong. I asked her again if something was going on with Dr. X. Again she denied.

 

I kept pressuring, I kept banging on that drum. Still she denied.

 

Then I pulled out the big guns -- then let's get a polygraphy scheduled and we will find out the truth. She hung on...but caved and said, "yes, I kissed him once..."

 

Once. Yes, once.

 

Okay, I just want the truth...more banging about the ploy and 20 minutes later it becomes, "I slept with him once...just once."

 

And this is a man you have contact with daily? "Yes." Texts and phone calls?..."No, never."

 

Let's go down to phone company and get records. "okay, he texts me...he keeps trying to have sex, but I keep telling him no, I'm done."

 

And when did this happen? "two or three years ago...can't remember" So this affair happened before DDay#2 / OM#3 in December. Why didn't you tell me then? Why didn't you tell me the hundreds of times I asked you since December if there were other men, other affairs?

 

"I don't know...I didn't want Dr. X to be straw the broke camels back..."

 

So more lies. Flat out lies to my face and lies of omission. Let me bust my balls trying to fix the marriage for FIVE MONTHS when all this time she still has an ongoing affair with someone at work she sees daily.

 

I'm writing here to tell you the anguish I'm feeling right now. I barely eaten in three days. I've dropped 10 pounds in that time. My daughters, ages 10 and 8 keep asking why mommie is staying at friends house, and if we are going to get a divorce. Do you want to be the cause of a conversation like that in someone's life?

 

You see what this crap does to families, to good people who are honest, sincere? Do you see what being the OM/OW will do to people / families.

 

That's my story.

 

Okay I re-read it and still am unsure of all the details. Frankly how the OP found out and his reaction irks me. As intelligent as he claims to be (3 steps from University President), his tactics I find deplorable. Again simply why did he not get the facts by hiring a detective or getting the texts? His 5 months of working himself into a frenzy seems unstable. Add to that I don't know what he meant by throwing himself 110% into the marriage, what she did and what he had to do or did to cause the breakdown. Again maybe nothing, but I am just reading the posts like others.

 

They moved back for family, but he gave up his career, which while noble may not have been the best thing to do. So many questions.

 

Frankly from his posts, how he got the admission, how he has reacted and what he made her do in front of two young children, makes me not condemn her 100%..... jmho

[Darth Vader]

Thanks for kind words. I left high level university job (three tiers from univ president level) to be stay at home. We were moving back to our home town and no real jobs for me, and with daycare and all activites and such we both decided it would be best for the family. I've often asked her if me being stay-at-home was okay...she loved it! Less stress of who's getting them, etc.

 

Update: We told the kiddos on Saturday. Wife ponied up and said following (paraphrase):

 

"Kids, when you get married you vow to love only one person. I vowed to love Daddy. Well, i broke that vow. I had feelings for another man. I kissed another man and I has sex with another man. That was wrong. I take full responsibility for this devorce. It's not your fault and It's not Daddy's fault...this is my fault."

 

Impressive.

 

She's devestated and hopefully hitting rock bottom. she needs to hit bottom to grow as a person. I can't be there to rescue her any more. I need to let her fail.

 

today has been extremely difficult. Lots of emotions.

 

And for the record (and the previous poster), I'm not trying to stir the pot here. My intentions were to simply help some OM/OWs understand what devestation affairs can have on families and people. Nuff said.

 

 

Remember people, this was paraphrased. I'm assuming that it was told in a much more delicate manner, I hope, for the children's sake.

 

So DUN1, were the children upset at their mother for what their mother did? How did they react? Your STBX-Hex, I mean Ex, cheated on them as well. I know they may not understand everything yet, including any nastyness their mother treated them with while she was having her sexcapade with the OM, but, they'll learn soon enough. Your wife will still have to live with all the anger and rejection from her children, including anything verbal. They will have and feel shame about their family, no matter what. The children will and are going to pay a price as well for your wifes cheating. That's the price she will pay over many years. I hope she knows that! If not, you need to tell her!

[Reggie]

Serial cheater, lying all the time, destroying the family. Yeah, the kids should know who they are dealing with. No orgasm details that I detected Just straightforward age approriae factual info on what transpired and why their lives are being disrupted. The whole family has been lied to enough. Now, they can make sense of what is going on.

And wtf the fact that they decided the family was best served by having him at home has to do with anything is beyond me.

[tami-chan]

From where in the OP's posts do you draw the conclusion that he "forced her to share that much truth"? In fact, from his surprised reaction ("impressive...", he said) I think it's as valid to conclude that she volunteered it.

 

This is what DNU1 said:

 

I meet with attorney today...tell wife it's "D" time tonight. Kids and rest of family hear the whole story on Sat. As does the OMs wife. And so do all co-workers. Nuclear exposure.

I'm not doing this to make my wife pay, or revenge. I'm doing this to shed light on the horrible thing that is an affiar. I'm doing this so that everyone associated with wife and OM#4 understand just what they are dealing with.

 

They will feel the consequences of their actions. They will have to deal with the reprecussions.

Do you think he gently asked his wife to tell the children?:rolleyes: I can almost imagine him on a podium, waving a sword, screaming the above bolded statement...LOL!!!!! I know I have seen too many movies...lol...sorry...

[White Flower]

DNU1, your W has proven too many times that she just wants or needs more than you. Are you going to let her have it her way? Can you live with that?

 

She found it so easy to lie to you. 'No, I just kissed him once'. Then it was, 'No, I just slept with him once.' Lie after lie.

 

If she wants an open M she could have broached the subject with you but instead she has been gaslighting you all along. Decide for yourself what you want to do and leave her out of the decision-making process for YOUR life.

[Darth Vader]

DNU1, your W has proven too many times that she just wants or needs more than you. Are you going to let her have it her way? Can you live with that?

 

She found it so easy to lie to you. 'No, I just kissed him once'. Then it was, 'No, I just slept with him once.' Lie after lie.

 

If she wants an open M she could have broached the subject with you but instead she has been gaslighting you all along. Decide for yourself what you want to do and leave her out of the decision-making process for YOUR life.

 

 

He's already made his decision, He's Divorcing the Witch!

 

So he says.........

[White Flower]

He's already made his decision, He's Divorcing the Witch!

 

So he says.........

Good, because even worse than the cheating is the constant blossoming lies. She could have been up front and said, 'This is what I need' but instead gaslighted him. At least tell the truth when being confronted.

[taylor]

Remember people, this was paraphrased. I'm assuming that it was told in a much more delicate manner, I hope, for the children's sake.

 

OP seemed to hell-bent on nuclear exposure to be too concerned about putting anything "delicately" but hopefully he did for his kid's sakes. Spent a few minutes figuring out how you would delicately tell children "I had sex with another man". Got nothin'.

 

So DUN1, were the children upset at their mother for what their mother did? How did they react? Your STBX-Hex, I mean Ex, cheated on them as well. I know they may not understand everything yet, including any nastyness their mother treated them with while she was having her sexcapade with the OM, but, they'll learn soon enough.

 

Yes, I am curious as well.

 

When I learned of my father's affair at age 12, words like "infidelity", "faithfulness", "morality" and all the ramifications that those words imply, did not cross my mind whatsoever. I did not think one bad thing about my dad. The ONLY thing I felt was SAD...SAD that I wouldn't be able to see my dad every night when he came home from work..SAD that he wouldn't be kissing me goodnight every night...SAD that both of my parents were SO SAD.

 

As a child I was only concerned about how the break up of the family was going to affect me. I did not sit in judgement of either one of my parents. It was not my place. I was only a child and I loved both of my parents and wanted both of them in my life. I didn't want anything to change.

 

For a short time I tutored teens at a juvenile detention facility. I recall one young man who was "serving time" for assault on another teen...a teen who bullied him and teased him about his mother being a prostitute. This led to the assault.

 

The incarcerated boy told me, "Yeah, my mom's a whore but no one has a right to say anything bad about her to my face like that." I asked if he loved his mom. He said, "Til the day I die."

 

IMO, A child's love for a parent often overrides any knee-jerk reaction to judge, no matter how bad the transgression is.

 

********

 

Why do you assume the OP's wife was nasty to the children? The marriage may not have been good, but why assume she took it out on the children? She may have wronged her husband with the infidelity. It doesn't mean she became an unfit mother.

[Dexter Morgan]

Do you think he gently asked his wife to tell the children?:rolleyes: I can almost imagine him on a podium, waving a sword, screaming the above bolded statement...LOL!!!!! I know I have seen too many movies...lol...sorry...

 

ah yes, just another attempt to put a BS in a bad light

[Dexter Morgan]

This post is all too common and the posters lining up to demonize the wife is all too typical.

 

uh....well.....she is a *gulp*....cheater afterall:o

 

 

In terms of Infidelity this situation is a 3 (on a 1-10 scale).

 

She has sex with another man, and its a "3"?...uh....ok. She continuously lies to him, and its a "3"?

 

 

The Husband while hurt is just so mean spirited and nasty and takes no blame for anything that transpired.

 

he can, and may, share the blame in anything wrong in the marriage. he is NOT to blame for her decision to screw another man, and continue to lie about it.

[jwi71]

OP seemed to hell-bent on nuclear exposure to be too concerned about putting anything "delicately" but hopefully he did for his kid's sakes. Spent a few minutes figuring out how you would delicately tell children "I had sex with another man". Got nothin'.

 

Revenge of course. He is/was using the kids to hurt his stbxw. I was tempted to do this too.

 

Yes, I too believe in letting my children know the truth (stbxw had an A). But not now for pete's sake...when they are older...like in ten years. Until then...all they need to know is "Mommy and Daddy love you both very much".

 

 

Why do you assume the OP's wife was nasty to the children? The marriage may not have been good, but why assume she took it out on the children? She may have wronged her husband with the infidelity. It doesn't mean she became an unfit mother.

Yup I agree with this too. One has nothing to do with the other.

[Dexter Morgan]

 

A 10 is multiple affairs, a long-term mistress, trips under the guise of business and full emotional attachment.....

 

A 10 to me would be a spouse screwing someone else...whether it happened one time, or 50 times. It wouldn't matter if it was a full blown affair. If a wife of mine spreads her legs for another man, she is gone.

[Dexter Morgan]

Revenge of course. He is/was using the kids to hurt his stbxw. I was tempted to do this too.

 

to this day I haven't told my children what happened. however they are quite young and it would be inappropriate.

 

Even when they are older, I will not offer up any info. But if they ask what happened, I WILL tell them the truth....then I will drop it and not dwell on it.

[taylor]

to this day I haven't told my children what happened. however they are quite young and it would be inappropriate.

 

Even when they are older, I will not offer up any info. But if they ask what happened, I WILL tell them the truth....then I will drop it and not dwell on it.

 

Dexter and JWI71,

 

It's good to see two men who know how to put their children FIRST above all else in even the most difficult of situations. How easy it would have been for either one of you to get revenge on your wives by using your children. It speaks volumes of your character and maturity that you did not do this.

 

My children know nothing of my EA although they have questioned mine and my husband's behavior - my sadness, my mood swings, my withdrawal, and dad's irritability. They know the relationship has been strained but we have both done our best to appear "normal." We do not feel the details are their business and we have both done what we could to shield them from what we consider to be "OUR" problems.

 

I shared the infidelity details with two family members and my husband, with one family member. I also shared the details with two very close girlfriends.

 

Neither my husband nor I had any desire to air the dirty laundry.

 

Had my husband gone on a revenge mission, it would have been just that much harder to even attempt marital recovery. He would have spent his time trying to deal with the infidelity and I would have spent time trying to recover from the exposure implosion.

 

I think I would have had a difficult time forgiving him for using/hurting our children to get back at me. Because he didn't do this, I admire and respect him for it.

[Reggie]

I was under the impression that the cheater did the talking to the kids about having had sex with the other guy. Unless she is a hand puppet, she dictated the manner in which they were told, the choice of words.

He was absolutely right to get the kids this info.

In my situation, much like his, the affair was ongoing. The OM was now living with my WW with the kids present. This is a man who could not be trusted and lacked character and integrity. Many in our community knew him to be a low-life.

I wanted my kids to not only understand what had led to the seperation, but I also wnated them to know that this guy was someone that did not have their best interests at heart.

We do not know if his motivation for insisting on this was revenge. This is a guy who had been cheated on multiple times in the past and he kept quiet. Many therapists advise telling the kids and feel it is healthier for them to know what happened.